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View Full Version : I call BS until I see a court martial convened.



ccpl_fisher
November 10 2012, 03:48:38 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/09/petraeus-resigns-as-cia-director/

tl;dr version:
General Petraeus was having an affair according to the FBI who stumbled upon it while doing a completely unrelated investigation into somebody else. He then resigns.
BS. Want me to believe he had an affair?
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm1342.htm

Fucking prove it in a court of law.

Tellenta
November 10 2012, 04:31:40 AM
He's a civilian in a civilian position (director of CIA). UCMJ does not apply. What is shocking about this is that there are people in the upper level of politics still capable of accepting personal blame for things without being dragged through the mud first.

Cue1*
November 10 2012, 04:32:34 AM
What is shocking about this is that there are people in the upper level of politics still capable of accepting personal blame for things without being dragged through the mud first.

Ophichius
November 10 2012, 04:36:24 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/09/petraeus-resigns-as-cia-director/

tl;dr version:
General Petraeus was having an affair according to the FBI who stumbled upon it while doing a completely unrelated investigation into somebody else. He then resigns.
BS. Want me to believe he had an affair?
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm1342.htm

Fucking prove it in a court of law.

Retired General and (until recently) current CIA director. He was not a member of the armed forces when said affair occurred, UCMJ does not apply. If he feels it necessary to step down, good on him. The media circus that would ensue if he stayed (and may possibly ensue anyways if Fox Noise decides to make a big deal out of this) would simply mean dragging his name through the mud.

Of course, you're welcome to go all :tinfoil: if it makes you feel better.

-O

erichkknaar
November 10 2012, 04:43:23 AM
He is no longer active duty General David Petraeus. He is a retired general, the civilian director of the CIA; David Petraeus. UCMJ does not apply, unless the transgression happened while he was a General. (I don't know this for sure, I am an immigrant Citizen. I've never served in the U.S. military. Are you legally bound to it after you are no longer in the military)?

Based on the fact that the alleged affair was had with the author of his biography, it stands to reason that this probably happened after his service.

It's a bad thing. Petraeus is a great general in the context of other U.S. generals.

Based on FOX news report even., this sounds like a tragic moral failing, as opposed to a tinfoil conspiracy.

Cue1*
November 10 2012, 05:06:57 AM
He is no longer active duty General David Petraeus. He is a retired general, the civilian director of the CIA; David Petraeus. UCMJ does not apply, unless the transgression happened while he was a General. (I don't know this for sure, I am an immigrant Citizen. I've never served in the U.S. military. Are you legally bound to it after you are no longer in the military)?

Based on the fact that the alleged affair was had with the author of his biography, it stands to reason that this probably happened after his service.

It's a bad thing. Petraeus is a great general in the context of other U.S. generals.

Based on FOX news report even., this sounds like a tragic moral failing, as opposed to a tinfoil conspiracy.

Unless the military still has recourse on him, then no, UCMJ has no bearing here. If for example, he was still a reservist, then it would, but to my knowledge, he's not, so he's fine. Plus, the military rarely will bring UCMJ into effect against civilians unless there's a serious reason to. They didn't use it against Bill Clinton, so I doubt they'd do so here.

Tellenta
November 10 2012, 05:07:11 AM
Are you legally bound to it after you are no longer in the military)?

I think there is a provision which will allow it but it's basically a section in the UCMJ that doesn't apply unless pulling a dick move is warranted.

edit: after further review I am wrong. anyways if you want to look at for who and how it applies and other stuff here.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Sponk
November 10 2012, 06:02:21 AM
It's probably a security clearance thing. Adultery would be cause for a revocation of security clearance pending investigation of blackmail in most countries. Having the director of the cia lose clearance, even temporarily basically means the shit hits the fan.

Blah blah tapatalk

Tellenta
November 10 2012, 06:08:47 AM
It's probably a security clearance thing. Adultery would be cause for a revocation of security clearance pending investigation of blackmail in most countries. Having the director of the cia lose clearance, even temporarily basically means the shit hits the fan.

Blah blah tapatalk

From what little has been released I think the lady in question was able to sneak peaks at classified material. Error in judgement yadda yadda I'm out situation basically.

KathDougans
November 10 2012, 08:56:39 AM
In the UK, retired officers are considered reservists for several years, dependent on rank.
Some very senior officers, such as senior Admirals in the RN, are considered reservists until they die.
Perhaps a similar thing occurs in the US ?

Also, it would appear that the alleged adulteress is a reservist, so she would be subject to the UCMJ, even if Mr. Petraeus is not, no?

Cue1*
November 10 2012, 03:37:43 PM
In the UK, retired officers are considered reservists for several years, dependent on rank.
Some very senior officers, such as senior Admirals in the RN, are considered reservists until they die.
Perhaps a similar thing occurs in the US ?

Also, it would appear that the alleged adulteress is a reservist, so she would be subject to the UCMJ, even if Mr. Petraeus is not, no?

I forgot about this clause:


(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

so yea, he's subject to UCMJ.

Tellenta
November 10 2012, 05:31:38 PM
In the UK, retired officers are considered reservists for several years, dependent on rank.
Some very senior officers, such as senior Admirals in the RN, are considered reservists until they die.
Perhaps a similar thing occurs in the US ?

Also, it would appear that the alleged adulteress is a reservist, so she would be subject to the UCMJ, even if Mr. Petraeus is not, no?

I forgot about this clause:


(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

so yea, he's subject to UCMJ.

Depends if pay and benefits = the same thing. If so I'm subject to UCMJ for the rest of my life due to the 10% disability I receive. Not sure if that is the case, military lawyers assemble!

edit: If benefits was the same as disability the clause that allows former military officers to request trial by court martial would be redundant.

edit edit: as retirement pay = a benefit

Cue1*
November 10 2012, 07:49:01 PM
In the UK, retired officers are considered reservists for several years, dependent on rank.
Some very senior officers, such as senior Admirals in the RN, are considered reservists until they die.
Perhaps a similar thing occurs in the US ?

Also, it would appear that the alleged adulteress is a reservist, so she would be subject to the UCMJ, even if Mr. Petraeus is not, no?

I forgot about this clause:


(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

so yea, he's subject to UCMJ.

Depends if pay and benefits = the same thing. If so I'm subject to UCMJ for the rest of my life due to the 10% disability I receive. Not sure if that is the case, military lawyers assemble!

edit: If benefits was the same as disability the clause that allows former military officers to request trial by court martial would be redundant.

edit edit: as retirement pay = a benefit

AFAIK, it does, although the military rarely makes use of it.

Tellenta
November 10 2012, 08:27:19 PM
In the UK, retired officers are considered reservists for several years, dependent on rank.
Some very senior officers, such as senior Admirals in the RN, are considered reservists until they die.
Perhaps a similar thing occurs in the US ?

Also, it would appear that the alleged adulteress is a reservist, so she would be subject to the UCMJ, even if Mr. Petraeus is not, no?

I forgot about this clause:


(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

so yea, he's subject to UCMJ.

Depends if pay and benefits = the same thing. If so I'm subject to UCMJ for the rest of my life due to the 10% disability I receive. Not sure if that is the case, military lawyers assemble!

edit: If benefits was the same as disability the clause that allows former military officers to request trial by court martial would be redundant.

edit edit: as retirement pay = a benefit

AFAIK, it does, although the military rarely makes use of it.

After a bit of poking around I got confirmation, though there is a jurisdiction question. I think its mostly used against people that commit crimes as a civilian ugly enough for the military to want to yank benefits.

Dorvil Barranis
November 10 2012, 08:39:36 PM
http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/WndiyRxvlnKu6mHfP9xZeA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0xMDI0O3E9Nzk7dz02OD A-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/6dfcd7a8b2ac811f200f6a7067003db2.jpg

In case you wanted to see what she looks like. If you are going to throw away a career you built up for decades on a piece of ass, should do it for someone hotter, IMHO.

Varcaus
November 10 2012, 10:39:42 PM
C

ValorousBob
November 11 2012, 03:38:21 AM
Something makes me think Petraeus doesn't have massive amounts of game.

Varcaus
November 11 2012, 03:39:43 AM
Something makes me think Petraeus doesn't have massive amounts of game.

"Hi I'm the director of the C.I.A."
...

Aea
November 11 2012, 03:40:34 AM
http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/WndiyRxvlnKu6mHfP9xZeA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0xMDI0O3E9Nzk7dz02OD A-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/6dfcd7a8b2ac811f200f6a7067003db2.jpg

In case you wanted to see what she looks like. If you are going to throw away a career you built up for decades on a piece of ass, should do it for someone hotter, IMHO.

Oh dear, this isn't a serious reply, but that name? Heh.

Also the man is pretty old isn't he, she's probably twenty years younger.

Xiang Jiao
November 11 2012, 04:52:01 AM
He's a civilian in a civilian position (director of CIA). UCMJ does not apply. What is shocking about this is that there are people in the upper level of politics still capable of accepting personal blame for things without being dragged through the mud first.

Patraeus is the first man to step out on his wife for some strange. How shocking! I could understand if he was an elected official, him wanting to step down because of the rabble media blowback, but he was appointed as director by the President and approved by the Senate.

Tellenta
November 11 2012, 05:03:23 AM
He's a civilian in a civilian position (director of CIA). UCMJ does not apply. What is shocking about this is that there are people in the upper level of politics still capable of accepting personal blame for things without being dragged through the mud first.

Patraeus is the first man to step out on his wife for some strange. How shocking! I could understand if he was an elected official, him wanting to step down because of the rabble media blowback, but he was appointed as director by the President and approved by the Senate.

He enabled ms lady person to see classified material he shouldn't have allowed her to see. I'm well aware of how people get appointed head of the CIA, thanks for the refresher regardless, not that it is relevant.

Dorvil Barranis
November 11 2012, 05:09:42 AM
Also the man is pretty old isn't he, she's probably twenty years younger.

40 and 60, so yeah.

More info on her here : http://www.heavy.com/news/2012/11/paula-broadwell-top-10-facts-you-need-to-know/


Patraeus is the first man to step out on his wife for some strange. How shocking! I could understand if he was an elected official, him wanting to step down because of the rabble media blowback, but he was appointed as director by the President and approved by the Senate.

It is the CIA, so could be any reason behind it, or it could be nothing more then him saying "fuck it, I quit" when his life fell apart.

http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Paula-Broadwell1.png

Xiang Jiao
November 11 2012, 05:13:58 AM
He's a civilian in a civilian position (director of CIA). UCMJ does not apply. What is shocking about this is that there are people in the upper level of politics still capable of accepting personal blame for things without being dragged through the mud first.

Patraeus is the first man to step out on his wife for some strange. How shocking! I could understand if he was an elected official, him wanting to step down because of the rabble media blowback, but he was appointed as director by the President and approved by the Senate.

He enabled ms lady person to see classified material he shouldn't have allowed her to see. I'm well aware of how people get appointed head of the CIA, thanks for the refresher regardless, not that it is relevant.

If that is true, then it's a whole other matter. How much of that information would be fair game for a biographer to see if she wasn't eating his tube steak?

Tellenta
November 11 2012, 05:20:16 AM
He's a civilian in a civilian position (director of CIA). UCMJ does not apply. What is shocking about this is that there are people in the upper level of politics still capable of accepting personal blame for things without being dragged through the mud first.

Patraeus is the first man to step out on his wife for some strange. How shocking! I could understand if he was an elected official, him wanting to step down because of the rabble media blowback, but he was appointed as director by the President and approved by the Senate.

He enabled ms lady person to see classified material he shouldn't have allowed her to see. I'm well aware of how people get appointed head of the CIA, thanks for the refresher regardless, not that it is relevant.

If that is true, then it's a whole other matter. How much of that information would be fair game for a biographer to see if she wasn't eating his tube steak?

Well this whole thing came about because of an investigation on her sending emails making 'forceful' inquiries about things she shouldn't know to other departments. As for how much she should know, I think it would be safe to say none to very little of it. She was writing a biography not taking minutes to CIA meetings.

edit: I'm probably overstating the whole situation for emphasis. Here is a rather concise description of the situation as known.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/us/fbi-said-to-have-stumbled-into-news-of-david-petraeus-affair.html?pagewanted=all

Xiang Jiao
November 11 2012, 05:37:04 AM
Thanks. It sounds like this all started because Paula was jealous of another one of Dave's girlfriends, and send some nastygrams her way. Also, that article downplays the affairs, and stresses the security concerns as the CIA are actively investigating for possible leaks and not how many women he was tickling. It's a shame he was so careless, but if you mess with fire...

Tellenta
November 11 2012, 06:26:36 AM
Thanks. It sounds like this all started because Paula was jealous of another one of Dave's girlfriends, and send some nastygrams her way. Also, that article downplays the affairs, and stresses the security concerns as the CIA are actively investigating for possible leaks and not how many women he was tickling. It's a shame he was so careless, but if you mess with fire...

I'm sure the CIA/FBI would naturally focus on what is important. It's politicians and news agencies that will focus on the detritus of the situation.

Chrien
November 11 2012, 08:19:46 PM
From reading reports in the NYTimes, Paterus bascially decided to resign before anyone even had the chance to push him. He informed James Clapper the Director of National Intelligence on November 7th, Obama basically found out a day later when Paterus turned in his resignation on November 8th. Apparently Obama asked for time to consider and a day later on the 9th he reluctantly accepted Paterus' resignation.

The idea that this is some administration conspiracy to punish Paterus for Benghazi is laughable. Paterus is respected on both sides of politics and considered by the media and American public to be an "American Hero". You would want Paterus out there at those hearings. Of course the right are going to go batshit crazy and try to come up with some retarded shit to try and discredit the administration but basically all that happened is he couldn't keep it in his pants.

F*** My Aunt Rita
November 12 2012, 09:26:01 PM
This whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. View it from the any angle: electoral shenanigans, broken hearts, career ambition, false loyalties, beltway insider bullshit, and a broken civilian/military hierarchy. This whole thing, not just the affair, should be front page news for months and cause D.C. to implode in the most hand-caught-in-cookie-jar institutional shakeups ever.

Varcaus
November 12 2012, 10:34:17 PM
Why was this thread moved? (or was it always here)

Zeekar
November 12 2012, 10:41:46 PM
This whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. View it from the any angle: electoral shenanigans, broken hearts, career ambition, false loyalties, beltway insider bullshit, and a broken civilian/military hierarchy. This whole thing, not just the affair, should be front page news for months and cause D.C. to implode in the most hand-caught-in-cookie-jar institutional shakeups ever.

More details please.

Evelgrivion
November 13 2012, 12:35:30 AM
This whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. View it from the any angle: electoral shenanigans, broken hearts, career ambition, false loyalties, beltway insider bullshit, and a broken civilian/military hierarchy. This whole thing, not just the affair, should be front page news for months and cause D.C. to implode in the most hand-caught-in-cookie-jar institutional shakeups ever.

The most likely explanation for the whole affair is a lack of institutional safeguards leading to corruption and massive exploitation by many a man, including a talented bullshit artist who finally got caught while lacking options to spin it in his favor. The most likely outcome is an effort to quickly sweep it out of the public eye rather than painful analysis and reforms of the pentagon brass and military industrial complex.

Sofia Roseburn
November 13 2012, 12:46:52 AM
Why was this thread moved? (or was it always here)

It was always here.

Varcaus
November 13 2012, 12:59:50 AM
Why was this thread moved? (or was it always here)

It was always here.

Welp guess that's what I get for just clicking it out of new posts.

KathDougans
November 13 2012, 05:17:58 PM
It seems a whole lot more people have become involved in this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20308225

there's a few :psyduck: bits to be found in this, like the FBI agent who sent a shirtless photo of themselves to the socialite who later asked the agent to investigate these unwanted emails the socialite was getting from Ms. Broadwell.

There might well be a court martial or two as a result of this.

Lallante
November 13 2012, 05:36:57 PM
It seems a whole lot more people have become involved in this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20308225

there's a few :psyduck: bits to be found in this, like the FBI agent who sent a shirtless photo of themselves to the socialite who later asked the agent to investigate these unwanted emails the socialite was getting from Ms. Broadwell.

There might well be a court martial or two as a result of this.

The only way this could get any better is if Paula Broadwell turns out to be Gen Allen in drag.

Tellenta
November 13 2012, 06:32:39 PM
This whole thing is a giant clusterfuck. View it from the any angle: electoral shenanigans, broken hearts, career ambition, false loyalties, beltway insider bullshit, and a broken civilian/military hierarchy. This whole thing, not just the affair, should be front page news for months and cause D.C. to implode in the most hand-caught-in-cookie-jar institutional shakeups ever.

More details please.

Here yah go http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/11/13/165016521/petraeus-affair-widens-whos-who-whats-what-heres-a-guide

Dorvil Barranis
November 13 2012, 06:49:21 PM
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2012/11/all_up_in_my_snatch_david_petraeus_video_7news.php

ABC news accidentally airs story with modified book cover, reading "All Up In My Snatch" instead of All In.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/assets_c/2012/11/paula%20broadwell%20all%20up%20in%20my%20snatch%20 7news-thumb-565x360.jpg

This is my serious business contribution.

Tellenta
November 13 2012, 06:59:46 PM
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2012/11/all_up_in_my_snatch_david_petraeus_video_7news.php

ABC news accidentally airs story with modified book cover, reading "All Up In My Snatch" instead of All In.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/assets_c/2012/11/paula%20broadwell%20all%20up%20in%20my%20snatch%20 7news-thumb-565x360.jpg

This is my serious business contribution.

I was going to ponder why someone would video tape television as they watch it as opposed to recording it. Then I remembered that you can rewind T.V. these days.

Rudolf Miller
November 13 2012, 07:54:28 PM
For more responses to the situation akin to cpl_fisher, see the spoiler.




Was Patreaus set up by Obama?
Let's see - the FBI has to vet potential appointees for cabinet posts - The FBI didn't(did) find out about the affair during that time, but now does find out. I think that Patreaus was put into the CIA post instead of defense or Joint Chiefs to (1) get a strong potential Republican candidate off the headlines or(2) to be the fall guy when Iran finally goes nuclear. Unfortunately for Obama, he had to use his fall guy for something else. I think that the administration was pressing him to stick to their story about Benghazi and he finally told them to go f*** themselves and quit so that they couldn't pressure him anymore.


I agree. I also heard on the news this morning that Patreaus didn't start the affair until after he was appointed, so they have covered their tracks there, as well. AND most disturbing is....the amount of news coverage the affair is receiving and the lack of new coverage about Benghazi.


All of this is post election. The real story isn't about an extra marital affair. Patreaus quit: 1) to cover up all of the dirty that the press would have exposed about the relationship 2) to continue to dummy down the average citizen about Benghazi 3) out of respect for every soldier wearing the uniform! This election result exposes our soldiers to 8-years of having an idiot as a Commander In Chief. ~~If a General can't fall on his sword? ~~

I'm merely responding to this email issue. I'm so disgusted, I'm not even tuning in to FOX News. The fundamental principals of our democracy has been shattered by this election. It's never coming back. Going forward, I'm just a fat, white, grey haired, senile citizen who may as well remain silent with opinion. Obama Care dictates my demise. Maybe I should move to Colorado and smoke pot to hasten the process.

Serious opinions from serious Republicans.

Dorvil Barranis
November 13 2012, 08:30:41 PM
I'm merely responding to this email issue. I'm so disgusted, I'm not even tuning in to FOX News. The fundamental principals of our democracy has been shattered by this election. It's never coming back. Going forward, I'm just a fat, white, grey haired, senile citizen who may as well remain silent with opinion. Obama Care dictates my demise. Maybe I should move to Colorado and smoke pot to hasten the process.

No, we don't want you.

Chrien
November 14 2012, 09:38:59 AM
The Benghazi conspiracy stuff would be hilarious if it wasn't trading on the lives of actual people.

Varcaus
November 14 2012, 01:31:41 PM
The Benghazi conspiracy stuff would be hilarious if it wasn't trading on the lives of actual people.

No the goons being CIA is hilarious anyway I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at that.

ValorousBob
November 14 2012, 06:36:13 PM
The Benghazi conspiracy stuff would be hilarious if it wasn't trading on the lives of actual people.

No the goons being CIA is hilarious anyway I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at that.

So true. It could have been even better though! What if Glenn Beck had actually done some searching and found the 'GARPA' documents about Grid Fu labeled 'top secret' and just shat his pants in excitement?