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Lana Torrin
November 16 2014, 09:24:30 PM
Yay arguing about semantics.

Tapaderpin

Approaching Walrus
November 16 2014, 09:27:39 PM
do you expect any better from FHC?

GiDiYi
November 16 2014, 09:35:32 PM
I just realised that I backed the game. I just spent 30 bucks and thus will be able to give this a spin upon release next month.

Pretty happy about this. From what I gather the people who've had the chance to play in alpha and beta seem to be pretty confident that this came together rather well. Correct?

Mona
November 16 2014, 09:46:54 PM
I just realised that I backed the game. I just spent 30 bucks and thus will be able to give this a spin upon release next month.

Pretty happy about this. From what I gather the people who've had the chance to play in alpha and beta seem to be pretty confident that this came together rather well. Correct?

Yes, but when connection is poor it will kill you, then it will punish you for it.

I think (well, hope) this is real reason for all that whining about removing offline, rather than general butthurt.

Verite Rendition
November 16 2014, 09:57:45 PM
I have to admit the lack of an offline mode is a major bummer. I had been expecting to pick up ED once it went gold, but if I can't play it offline then I am probably going to skip it.:(

Steckersaurus
November 16 2014, 10:16:54 PM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.

So yeah, mixed feelings about the decision to ditch offline mode. It has no impact on me whatsoever, but it seems like a lot of people wanted it and it's been yanked. Hopefully they find a way around that, or perhaps the hackers/modders will.

NoirAvlaa
November 16 2014, 10:55:41 PM
Elite: Autism (FHC Remake)

Meths
November 16 2014, 11:36:46 PM
Ooo i received a warning on frontier forums for inflammatory and baiting posts.

I'm so Badass

Bombcrater
November 16 2014, 11:41:02 PM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Melichor
November 17 2014, 12:41:59 AM
I really need to learn how to play this...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Approaching Walrus
November 17 2014, 01:42:00 AM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Apparently multiplayer is P2P when two people are in the same area of space... this explains a lot of the issues people are having.

Helfix
November 17 2014, 06:57:28 AM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Apparently multiplayer is P2P when two people are in the same area of space... this explains a lot of the issues people are having.

Yeah, if I remember correctly its all P2P, no dedicated servers.

Mona
November 17 2014, 08:40:53 AM
With all that, game should be again playable on evenings. Win. [emoji12]

Lana Torrin
November 17 2014, 09:01:12 AM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Apparently multiplayer is P2P when two people are in the same area of space... this explains a lot of the issues people are having.

Yeah, if I remember correctly its all P2P, no dedicated servers.

Oh god really? This is going to end well...

Tailn
November 17 2014, 09:48:21 AM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Apparently multiplayer is P2P when two people are in the same area of space... this explains a lot of the issues people are having.

Yeah, if I remember correctly its all P2P, no dedicated servers.

Oh god really? This is going to end well...

It certainly impacts on the costs, not having a ton of servers just dedicated to spinning up instances every time a few people meet in space.
+1 for economics
-2 for stability and security

Nicholai Pestot
November 17 2014, 09:50:34 AM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Apparently multiplayer is P2P when two people are in the same area of space... this explains a lot of the issues people are having.

Yeah, if I remember correctly its all P2P, no dedicated servers.

Enable the lag shields. Engage porn streaming.

Darkening
November 17 2014, 10:08:20 AM
720k upload for me, so this game will run like shit then?

Lana Torrin
November 17 2014, 10:14:18 AM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Apparently multiplayer is P2P when two people are in the same area of space... this explains a lot of the issues people are having.

Yeah, if I remember correctly its all P2P, no dedicated servers.

Oh god really? This is going to end well...

It certainly impacts on the costs, not having a ton of servers just dedicated to spinning up instances every time a few people meet in space.
+1 for economics
-2 for stability and security

Yeah this is going to be bot/hack central as soon as people that absolutely must win get a hold of it.

Kai
November 17 2014, 10:50:37 AM
It'll depend on how much stuff is handled server-side. If you're set up to never interact with anyone, it shouldn't be too hard for them to move stuff client-side and avoid problems with lag.

One would hope, at least. I won't have any problems given that I'm sitting on a 50Mb/s connection and looking forward to multiplayer.
It's not like Eve where the client is just a fancy dumb terminal but there's enough done on the server that any internet issues can impact the game quite badly. And unfortunately ED's net code is fragile and doesn't deal well with slow or poor quality links. I have packet loss problems on my connection atm and ED really struggles with that, the client and server seem to lose sync and the game gets stuck. There's been plenty of times recently when WoT or War Thunder will work, albeit with some laggy moments, but ED either freezes at the spinning ship or lets me in but nothing responds.

Multi-player mode also seems to open a buttload of connections; the Netgear router I've used for years sometimes got completely bogged down when ED was running, to the extent that web pages would time out when the game was running. Switching it out for a more modern one helped with that but in busy areas the game still seems to occasionally saturate the uplink (which to be fair is a shitty 1MBit, but like the majority of people in the UK I'm stuck on ADSL2+ and can't get any better).

Apparently multiplayer is P2P when two people are in the same area of space... this explains a lot of the issues people are having.

Yeah, if I remember correctly its all P2P, no dedicated servers.

Oh god really? This is going to end well...

It certainly impacts on the costs, not having a ton of servers just dedicated to spinning up instances every time a few people meet in space.
+1 for economics
-2 for stability and security

Yeah this is going to be bot/hack central as soon as people that absolutely must win get a hold of it.

Not to mention usual Aussieland multiplayer issues.... I may just play this single player and wait until CIG gets the Singapore server up for multiplayer spaceship fun.

Mona
November 17 2014, 11:57:11 AM
Yeah this is going to be bot/hack central as soon as people that absolutely must win get a hold of it.

Who need bots ih one can PUT ALL POWER TO SHIELDS!

http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?8822-Elite-Dangerous-(Kickstarter-remake)&p=1207277&viewfull=1#post1207277

Calgus
November 17 2014, 12:33:16 PM
Not to mention usual Aussieland multiplayer issues.... I may just play this single player and wait until CIG gets the Singapore server up for multiplayer spaceship fun.

Yep, not going to bother with this until they sort out a way for Australians to be able to play the game.

Kind of reminds me of Wildstar which basically wiped out its Asia/Oceanic market within a couple of weeks when people figured out there was no point playing thanks to lag to the US servers.

And that was just telegraphed attacks, I don't even want to see space sims.

Bombcrater
November 17 2014, 02:57:12 PM
720k upload for me, so this game will run like shit then?
If you run in Open Play mode where there are other players around the game (as it is right now) will sometimes lag in busy areas and it can take a while to log in.

Frug
November 17 2014, 05:50:08 PM
If I start a new game today using an engine that's existed since 2005, I started development today not 9 years ago.

With that logic, CIG will start developing Star Citizen in 6 months, when they switch Cryengine into 64-bit.

With your logic practically no games are built in under 10 years.

edit: ok maybe not 10 years

Saul
November 17 2014, 06:32:44 PM
720k upload for me, so this game will run like shit then?

Apparently the only time it connects to the servers is to moderate transactions made by the player, and occasionally to sync the wider universe. Even with the shittiest of connections, the worst you're likely to see is probably a slow load time when checking mission lists etc.

Even Open Play is perfectly playable since 3.05 hit, P2P connections and all (unless you get that one cunt in Taiwan or something, but there's one of those in every game).

Bombcrater
November 17 2014, 07:03:01 PM
Apparently the only time it connects to the servers is to moderate transactions made by the player, and occasionally to sync the wider universe.
The game is constantly communicating while you play, sometimes with the server and sometimes with other players. Hit Crtl-B when playing and watch the traffic going in and out, it's rare for the game to go more than a few seconds without net activity.

I'm not too concerned about performance on slow uplinks just yet, there's still a lot they can do both to the client net code and server-side to increase efficiency before release.

Tailn
November 17 2014, 07:04:14 PM
Even Open Play is perfectly playable since 3.05 hit, P2P connections and all (unless you get that one cunt in Australia or something, but there's one of those in every game).

fyp.

Darkening
November 17 2014, 07:20:51 PM
Right it's pre-ordered.

Lusc
November 17 2014, 09:08:40 PM
So I was holding off buying this, but a certain UK online retailer is selling Thrustmaster T-flight Hotas X Joystick (which I was going to get if I got this) for really cheap, so it pushed my hand to get one and therefore push me to get this :D, just need some time to play it now.

Love the look of the controls in game, the mining looks quite cool.

Dante80
November 18 2014, 12:04:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8umAuCmqdo4

Freddy Dare
November 18 2014, 02:47:11 PM
So I was holding off buying this, but a certain UK online retailer is selling Thrustmaster T-flight Hotas X Joystick (which I was going to get if I got this) for really cheap, so it pushed my hand to get one and therefore push me to get this :D, just need some time to play it now.

Love the look of the controls in game, the mining looks quite cool.





Linkeh please you tight buggar

Darkening
November 18 2014, 04:03:28 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30097229

Ooo it made the beeb

Meths
November 18 2014, 06:25:13 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30097229

Ooo it made the beeb

Rage on the forums now because people are being refused refunds. :D :popcorn:

Paradox
November 18 2014, 06:27:00 PM
Why are people so upset?

Torashuu
November 18 2014, 06:28:47 PM
Because they promised! And it totally wasn't a binding contract and/or actual sale they spent money on.

Saul
November 18 2014, 07:22:15 PM
EG interview with Braben:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-18-david-braben-responds-to-outcry-over-elite-dangerous-ditched-offline-mode

Loganbacca
November 18 2014, 10:12:03 PM
Full online mode for me tends to end up with a few loading and latency issues, but solo online mode works just fine even from the other side of the world. No offline mode doesn't bother me.

helgur
November 18 2014, 10:16:49 PM
I'm just worried that the game will be an 'always on', where you will need a constant stable connection to the internet for it to even work. Because I can't really think of any success stories from previous games that have gone down that route ... (excluding mmo's offcourse but Elite isn't one)

Approaching Walrus
November 18 2014, 10:38:24 PM
I'm just worried that the game will be an 'always on', where you will need a constant stable connection to the internet for it to even work. Because I can't really think of any success stories from previous games that have gone down that route ... (excluding mmo's offcourse but Elite isn't one)

Braben said in some post that the game will only connect to servers when you load markets or a new area (something like that), so solo should be fine for all but the worst connections.

Speaking of markets, apparently there is no way to directly transfer items or credits to other players yet. Really hope they have that in their 'release' build because for any multiplayer game with an economy, direct trading between players is kind of essential.

GiDiYi
November 18 2014, 10:43:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8umAuCmqdo4

I'll assume that you're doing those videos. They are very well done. Plus rep will be applied.

Keep that stuff coming. :popcorn:

Lusc
November 19 2014, 06:33:32 PM
So I was holding off buying this, but a certain UK online retailer is selling Thrustmaster T-flight Hotas X Joystick (which I was going to get if I got this) for really cheap, so it pushed my hand to get one and therefore push me to get this :D, just need some time to play it now.

Love the look of the controls in game, the mining looks quite cool.





Linkeh please you tight buggar


Hehe

http://www.cclonline.com/product/120469/4160543/Game-Controllers/Thrustmaster-T-flight-Hotas-X-Joystick/JOY0148/

Not sure whether I would get banned for linking a retail site :(

Anyway I was going to get it from Amazon for £40 on ED release but this came up on CCL and you can pay with Amazon payment, so I was like fuck it I will let it gather some dust until the 16th :)

Approaching Walrus
November 19 2014, 07:01:23 PM
I'll be using my ancient Saitek Cyborg joystick that I've had for over 10 years and is missing a few buttons, and has a massive dead zone plus likes to yaw on its own from time to time. And I'll still fly better than half of the people who play this game.

Lusc
November 19 2014, 09:00:40 PM
I'll be using my ancient Saitek Cyborg joystick that I've had for over 10 years and is missing a few buttons, and has a massive dead zone plus likes to yaw on its own from time to time. And I'll still fly better than half of the people who play this game.

Yeah, I was just going to use my Microsft Side winder that I got back in 2000, but I thought, why not get something up to date to go with hopefully a great new game.

GiDiYi
November 20 2014, 09:05:24 PM
I gave it my first spin today. Just did the tutorials.

Flight controls feel nice, although it needs a bit of getting used to it. Played it with mouse and keyboard. Not sure if I want to keep the standard layout with the mouse rolling while the keyboard is strafing.

I even managed to crash only once so far. Upon undocking I thought I just want to speed it up a little nodge, so let's hit the afterburner just for the fraction of a second. Oh blimey.

It took me a while to find the actual entrance to the station in that one tutorial. Is there a quick way to spot the entrance or get it shown on the UI or something?

jadefalcon
November 20 2014, 10:05:08 PM
One the UI, the icon on the lower left has arrows pointing towards the entrance, other way is to look at the way the station spins. Coriolis stations have their entrance and back rotating, with the rest of the plates orbiting it. Imagine a wheel, the spokes are the entrance and back, the tire is the spinning bits. Not sure if that makes sense...

Silk75
November 20 2014, 11:07:33 PM
All the stations rotate anti clockwise when looking straight towards the docking slot.
Platforms don't rotate, but the docking pad you need may be on top, bottom, left or right depending on your orientation.

Sent from my HTC One_M8

Meths
November 20 2014, 11:22:15 PM
Beta 3.9 Changelog up

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61341

Looks like there will be another wipe on launch.


No, there's a full wipe for gamma and probably one for release (although that isn't fully confirmed yet but seems likely).

Michael

Steckersaurus
November 20 2014, 11:45:57 PM
Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog on Amazon Daily sale (http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Hotas-Warthog-Joystick-2960720/dp/B00371R8P4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1416527079&sr=1-1&keywords=hotas+warthog) for anyone who wants one and considers a 28% saving to be worth it.

VARRAKK
November 21 2014, 09:48:29 AM
http://youtu.be/PUFIFL7zwXQ

Torashuu
November 21 2014, 10:08:55 AM
Shitty hotkey setup, he has hotas but constantly needs to take his hand off to use the pads... :psyduck:

Cosmin
November 21 2014, 10:10:39 AM
Beta 3.9 Changelog up

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61341

Looks like there will be another wipe on launch.


No, there's a full wipe for gamma and probably one for release (although that isn't fully confirmed yet but seems likely).

Michael

So they went back on their word on the launch wipe too. Seems fair, though, although I can't see who's even remotely interested and didn't preorder :)


Otoh, I consider the most dick move ever the fact that they're axing offline mode. Basically they went back on their Kickstarter promise of making a full offline experience for people who'd wish to... DUH. Play offline. Basically from what I've gathered about the game, they need people online to do some of the several computations necessary (a sort of distributed computing) to keep the universe alive. Kinda like imagine Tranquility being actually ran on the client's computers. I can't really argue with them making my computer their bitch (although I can feel fucking irritated), but I fully protest the fucking offline mode. It's one of the reasons I actually pre-ordered this thing. Sigh.

Everybody wants to be fucking EA.

Mona
November 21 2014, 10:36:28 AM
Fix crash when rendering stars

Spacegame 101.

Tailn
November 21 2014, 10:49:01 AM
http://youtu.be/PUFIFL7zwXQ

Still has massive problems with the side screens being completely out of perspective and having stretched textures. With those issues I still would not use a triple screen set-up even one like that, your spacial awareness gets completely fucked up and you end up fighting you peripheral vision rather than using it.

Lana Torrin
November 21 2014, 11:12:24 AM
I want to hear from all the people that said this game was going to be way better than SC. Do they still feel this way or have the last few weeks dented their enthusiasm?

Personally I'm still glad I got my full version and free updates for life package (right up till they change their mind on that as well).

Tapaderpin

helgur
November 21 2014, 11:53:19 AM
I want to hear from all the people that said this game was going to be way better than SC. Do they still feel this way or have the last few weeks dented their enthusiasm?

Personally I'm still glad I got my full version and free updates for life package (right up till they change their mind on that as well).

Tapaderpin

I have no clue measurement wise subjectively or objectively against SC since I never have played it or bothered keeping tabs on it, but sure yeah. This put a little dent in the enthusiasm. But not much.

To be honest, I still remember very well how much of an epic failure the last Elite game was and how hard Braben derped on that one, so I expected at least some hiccups one way or the other on this. Let's hope the rest will be smooth sailing (I also remember from earlier in the '90ies how overambitious Chris Roberts was, which by my impressions he hasn't been cured of in any way shape or form. I expect some major derpings coming from that front aswell. Brace yourself).

Snottus
November 21 2014, 11:56:53 AM
Until I have played a finished version of both games, with most, if not all, of the features coded in, I'll reserve judgement.

See you in 2021..

Nicholai Pestot
November 21 2014, 12:25:36 PM
I want to hear from all the people that said this game was going to be way better than SC. Do they still feel this way or have the last few weeks dented their enthusiasm?

Personally I'm still glad I got my full version and free updates for life package (right up till they change their mind on that as well).

Tapaderpin

I don't give a rats ass about offline mode and (as a software developer) know how often planned features don't make it into the final product. Concepts from the initial fund-raising/planning stage get dropped all the time, its just that we don't usually hear about it because development houses keep that type of stuff to themselves. Kick-starters expose all that dirty laundry to the world, which provides a very real risk of a product failing before release because the development team feel chained to features that they would normally have just written off once they had started attempting to realize them and discovered how unrealistic they are.

If I were running the development of this game and given the choice between dropping offline mode, releasing a shitty version of offline and online, or delaying release for another half a year, I would have made the same decision and just dropped offline mode in order to release a very fun online mode.

Their choice to ignore the un-representative over-vocal minority bawwing on the forums in order to make a tough (correct) choice to focus on what is the real core of their product has only strengthened my confidence in them, as I understand the processes that are behind that decision.

So no, nothing has dampened my enthusiasm. If anything I am more enthusiastic as I know I can trust them to make the right choices in their follow-up expansions.

Dee Jiensai
November 21 2014, 12:50:18 PM
not the least bit damped. The people now wanting a refund because missing offline mode are something i cannot understand at all.
An Online version of Elite was what E:D was about. nd if you are a true loner, you have solo mode. I dont get it.

Joshua Foiritain
November 21 2014, 12:56:53 PM
not the least bit damped. The people now wanting a refund because missing offline mode are something i cannot understand at all.
An Online version of Elite was what E:D was about. nd if you are a true loner, you have solo mode. I dont get it.

People want to be able to play if they have no internet, the servers are down and after Frontier Developments shuts down the servers permanently. Given that the game was supposed to come with this option its not unreasonable to request a refund if its one the main reasons you bought the game.

QuackBot
November 21 2014, 01:00:20 PM
I want to hear from all the people that said this game was going to be way better than SC. Do they still feel this way or have the last few weeks dented their enthusiasm?

Personally I'm still glad I got my full version and free updates for life package (right up till they change their mind on that as well).

Tapaderpin
People do that if you were living in 1968 dude...

Lana Torrin
November 21 2014, 01:23:21 PM
not the least bit damped. The people now wanting a refund because missing offline mode are something i cannot understand at all.
An Online version of Elite was what E:D was about. nd if you are a true loner, you have solo mode. I dont get it.

People want to be able to play if they have no internet, the servers are down and after Frontier Developments shuts down the servers permanently. Given that the game was supposed to come with this option its not unreasonable to request a refund if its one the main reasons you bought the game.

I agree with this. I also care not one bit for offline mode, but it was one of the core promises right at the start.. Its a big kick in the guts for a bunch of original backers and could have been handled a lot better than 'we are releasing in 4 weeks and btw we axed offline play lol'.

Nax
November 21 2014, 01:24:44 PM
One of the reasons that I liked Elite was because I thought that Braben was really motivated to ship the best game he could. Star Citizen seems to want to make the most awesome game ever and then ship it. It's really easy for the latter type of project to spiral out of control and become a complete mess (e.g. Daikatana). If Star Citizen pulls it off then it'll be great and I'll buy it but my guess is that it'll turn into a legendary shitstorm when they can't deliver an acceptable game quickly enough and the bubble of people willing to dump real life money into imaginary space pixels implodes.

On a scale of zero to dick, Braben sounds like kindof a dick. In some ways being a dick may be an asset to actually shipping a game as hard choices need to be made but it's also a liability if your customers feel like you're screwing them over. He also seems very focused on earning money which is good in a way as Elite obviously needs a ton of money to write and it's never been a sure thing that periodic expansions would be enough to fund it in the medium term. However when it turns into being a money grubbing dick and alienating customers then you get into shitstorm land.

Coming from a history of playing Eve I don't like giving one group of players a 25% bonus to ship insurance in a competitive game. That's pay to win in my book. Money grubbing to the detriment of the game imho. It's not a deal breaker to me but it certainly is a bad omen.

I don't like giving that same group of players a three week head-start on the game. Having played Eve I'd be shocked if people weren't doing things like camping new player stations/systems with sniping ships on launch which would be bad for the game. However it does have the benefit of reducing the launch day woes as there will be a reduced chance of the mass failed log on disaster that tends to haunt games like this on release.

Nuking offline single player sucks. Especially if the servers go down on launch and people can't do shit but stare at the log-on screen. We've been through this numerous times with other games and it's a shitstorm waiting to happen. On the other hand it has been clear for a while that they're behind on development and either they're going to miss the ship date or cut features. It's also clear that they're investing in a dynamic world shaped by player base activity so you would see the online universe diverge rapidly from multiple single player universes so it would become very difficult to maintain these parallel universes especially if they're relying on developing more content based on the state of the online universe after release which I am pretty sure that they are.

My gut tells me that they're launching too soon and that they should push back the release date. However it's really easy to say that from the outside when you don't have to look at your cash burn rate vs income and wet yourself every night.

Tailn
November 21 2014, 04:05:53 PM
I don't like giving that same group of players a three week head-start on the game.

Looks like that may not be occuring.


Beta 3.9 Changelog up

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61341

Looks like there will be another wipe on launch.


No, there's a full wipe for gamma and probably one for release (although that isn't fully confirmed yet but seems likely).

Michael

Cosmin
November 21 2014, 04:15:19 PM
not the least bit damped. The people now wanting a refund because missing offline mode are something i cannot understand at all.
An Online version of Elite was what E:D was about. nd if you are a true loner, you have solo mode. I dont get it.

You are dumb if you don't get it after the tons of e-ink spilled on this already. Some people bought into this because Elite. And that most definitely includes solo play that doesn't depend on anything else than the computer you're playing it on. No servers, no distributed computing, no always online shit. I travel a lot (and by a lot I mean a fucking lot) and I want to fire up a game when I'm without an internet connection. This is one reason, but other reasons include servers down for monkey business (İUbisoft/EA), lag, lost saves, lost ships and everything that comes with linking the galaxy to a network of computers that's out of Frontier's control (+ their servers).

I'd rather they launched with a sort of local server software and let players blaze their trail alone in the basement if so they wish. They paid for that feature and the crowd that screams foul now should tell you that not everybody enjoys an always online experience.




And I've yet to understand how ~500 forum pages of bloody murder are generated by an "unrepresentative overvocal minority". Do you fucking need a dictionary?

Darkening
November 21 2014, 05:12:58 PM
And I've yet to understand how ~500 forum pages of bloody murder are generated by an "unrepresentative overvocal minority". Do you fucking need a dictionary?

500+ pages means shit..you get that here from 20-25 people.

Trindermon
November 21 2014, 05:49:34 PM
And I've yet to understand how ~500 forum pages of bloody murder are generated by an "unrepresentative overvocal minority". Do you fucking need a dictionary?

There are 100k+ people playing beta according to the elite team, would be interesting to do unique user counts in that thread.
Then again you don't seem overly interested in using data. Way to go sounding like a halfwit with the aggressive ra-ra statements.

for what its worth i think the whole offline thing is not cool, and I feel for the people that wanted that - hopefully though this will make people realize that "goals" in kick starter are just that, goals. Not absolutes and kick starters should be treated with real caution.

Its not going to effect me cause i didn't want to play the game any other-way than online using my rig - i really don't like the experience on the move (IE no joystick and nice PC setup).

Torashuu
November 21 2014, 05:57:58 PM
How about this, ME 3 generated a shit storm, it also generated profits. take a guess which of the two is more important in the long run.

Saul
November 21 2014, 06:03:32 PM
not the least bit damped. The people now wanting a refund because missing offline mode are something i cannot understand at all.
An Online version of Elite was what E:D was about. nd if you are a true loner, you have solo mode. I dont get it.

You are dumb if you don't get it after the tons of e-ink spilled on this already. Some people bought into this because Elite. And that most definitely includes solo play that doesn't depend on anything else than the computer you're playing it on. No servers, no distributed computing, no always online shit. I travel a lot (and by a lot I mean a fucking lot) and I want to fire up a game when I'm without an internet connection. This is one reason, but other reasons include servers down for monkey business (İUbisoft/EA), lag, lost saves, lost ships and everything that comes with linking the galaxy to a network of computers that's out of Frontier's control (+ their servers).

I'd rather they launched with a sort of local server software and let players blaze their trail alone in the basement if so they wish. They paid for that feature and the crowd that screams foul now should tell you that not everybody enjoys an always online experience.




And I've yet to understand how ~500 forum pages of bloody murder are generated by an "unrepresentative overvocal minority". Do you fucking need a dictionary?

You are worse than dumb if you don't realise that features on kickstarter are never guaranteed.

Approaching Walrus
November 21 2014, 06:09:00 PM
I want to hear from all the people that said this game was going to be way better than SC. Do they still feel this way or have the last few weeks dented their enthusiasm?

Personally I'm still glad I got my full version and free updates for life package (right up till they change their mind on that as well).

Tapaderpin

I don't think it will be way better but SC is coming out in neveruary, and Elite is playable right now, which goes a long way.

Snottus
November 21 2014, 06:43:44 PM
How about this, ME 3 generated a shit storm, it also generated profits. take a guess which of the two is more important in the long run.

I never understood that particular shitstorm, I really liked ME3, and love ME as a whole

pazuzu
November 21 2014, 06:45:44 PM
Question for beta tester: is it normal for the client to take FUCKING AGES to dowload the thing?

Mona
November 21 2014, 06:54:34 PM
I never understood that particular shitstorm, I really liked ME3, and love ME as a whole

Me3 was awesome up until you get on one particular lift. Then it took nose dive into lake of shit. When game ended 10 minutes later, all people remembered was lake of shit.

Nicholai Pestot
November 21 2014, 06:54:42 PM
And I've yet to understand how ~500 forum pages of bloody murder are generated by an "unrepresentative overvocal minority". Do you fucking need a dictionary?

People who even post on the forums at all is a tiny unrepresentative over-vocal minority, let alone the small sub-set of that group that posts on any given thread. I think you need to go get a fucking clue.

Bombcrater
November 21 2014, 07:02:08 PM
You are worse than dumb if you don't realise that features on kickstarter are never guaranteed.
Indeed. The people who backed ED through Kickstarter and are now whining for refunds are morons. Kickstarter is nothing more than away of donating to a project with the hope of possibly getting something you like sometime in the future, absolutely nothing is guaranteed and people need to get that fact into their dumb brains.

That said, I have some sympathy for those who bought ED direct from Frontier through their store. They were buying a game with a set of promised features, albeit one still under development. But the 'beta' tag should not be be cover for devs failing to deliver on a major feature. Those people should be getting some kind of discount, perhaps with the limitation that anyone who accepts the discount won't be able to use Open Play mode since they clearly wanted a single-player game.

Approaching Walrus
November 21 2014, 07:02:12 PM
And I've yet to understand how ~500 forum pages of bloody murder are generated by an "unrepresentative overvocal minority". Do you fucking need a dictionary?

People who even post on the forums at all is a tiny unrepresentative over-vocal minority, let alone the small sub-set of that group that posts on any given thread. I think you need to go get a fucking clue.

500 pages of shitposting is serious business though.

Also lol @ people who literally played the game for hours then have the audacity to demand a refund. Lolwut?

morpheps
November 21 2014, 07:11:45 PM
Also lol @ people who literally played the game for hours then have the audacity to demand a refund. Lolwut?

David Braben agrees with you:



Will you give people refunds?

We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome:
- Those who have pre-ordered an Elite: Dangerous release version from our online store and have therefore not yet played the game are eligible for a refund.
- Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund.

Cosmin
November 21 2014, 07:14:41 PM
You are worse than dumb if you don't realise that features on kickstarter are never guaranteed.

And you are an absolute moron for assuming I've bought it from Kickstarter (backed it up then, or whatever). I bought it from the Frontier online store a couple months back in July, when it was clear already it was going to be launched this year. I bought into an almost finished game, that 1 month prior to launch says "ops hehe gtfo no offline mode for you".

Here, have a negrep back, not for negrepping me but for assuming shit.

Varcaus
November 21 2014, 07:33:07 PM
You are worse than dumb if you don't realise that features on kickstarter are never guaranteed.
And you are an absolute moron for assuming I've bought it from Kickstarter (backed it up then, or whatever). I bought it from the Frontier online store a couple months back in July, when it was clear already it was going to be launched this year. I bought into an almost finished game, that 1 month prior to launch says "ops hehe gtfo no offline mode for you".

Here, have a negrep back, not for negrepping me but for assuming shit.
Lol buying early access is no different.

Darkening
November 21 2014, 08:01:33 PM
You are worse than dumb if you don't realise that features on kickstarter are never guaranteed.
And you are an absolute moron for assuming I've bought it from Kickstarter (backed it up then, or whatever). I bought it from the Frontier online store a couple months back in July, when it was clear already it was going to be launched this year. I bought into an almost finished game, that 1 month prior to launch says "ops hehe gtfo no offline mode for you".

Here, have a negrep back, not for negrepping me but for assuming shit.
Lol buying early access is no different.

FatFreddy
November 21 2014, 08:02:43 PM
You are worse than dumb if you don't realise that features on kickstarter are never guaranteed.
And you are an absolute moron for assuming I've bought it from Kickstarter (backed it up then, or whatever). I bought it from the Frontier online store a couple months back in July, when it was clear already it was going to be launched this year. I bought into an almost finished game, that 1 month prior to launch says "ops hehe gtfo no offline mode for you".

Here, have a negrep back, not for negrepping me but for assuming shit.
Lol buying early access is no different.

Meths
November 21 2014, 08:37:05 PM
You are worse than dumb if you don't realise that features on kickstarter are never guaranteed.
And you are an absolute moron for assuming I've bought it from Kickstarter (backed it up then, or whatever). I bought it from the Frontier online store a couple months back in July, when it was clear already it was going to be launched this year. I bought into an almost finished game, that 1 month prior to launch says "ops hehe gtfo no offline mode for you".

Here, have a negrep back, not for negrepping me but for assuming shit.
Lol buying early access is no different.

QuackBot
November 21 2014, 09:00:18 PM
Invest in a gridded whiteboard and use chess pieces you peasants.

Torashuu
November 21 2014, 09:35:43 PM
Like all other games, you buy them for what they at that time, not for what they might become in the future.

Dee Jiensai
November 21 2014, 09:58:08 PM
Like all other games, you buy them for what they at that time, not for what they might become in the future.

Well, kind of right, but kickstarter changes this equation. If you kickstart some game, you do that because you would like to play what the developers say they will deliver, and trust them to do so.
Without suporting the development in this way the game might never be made, and you would not be able to play it then (obviously).

Currently ED is out of kickstarter though and very close to release, so you could say you know what you get when you buy it, but here also might be an issue: In MMOs the early bird often has some advanages, not only by being ahead of other players simply by having played longer, but also by possible pre release bonuses.

Again in the case of ED for example, you can today still buy the "All Season Pass" (i think) and get 25% reduction in insurance costs. If you buy the game later these options might not be available any more.

So, it can be quite irrational to buy a game and hope that some features you are looking for wil be implemented eventually, but depending on your point of view it might also be very rational to buy in early.
I guess it boils down to cost vs. trust. If you trust the developer enough to deliver, a higher cost might be acceptable (higher in the sense that you might waste money for a game that you dont play, or in higher beta prices)

Approaching Walrus
November 21 2014, 09:59:28 PM
Invest in a gridded whiteboard and use chess pieces you peasants.

http://i.imgur.com/ForPOJQ.gif

(not chess I know, couldn't find a chess tableflip gif)

Ben Derindar
November 21 2014, 10:02:52 PM
I'm only mildly affected by the removal of offline mode. I had hoped to park one character in Sol in offline mode, but I never intended to really play the game as such with that character. It would have gotten really boring trading your way to e-riches in a static universe; I already did that in the original, and while it was fun for a number of years, I think the dynamic element of playing online is important for maintaining long term interest these days.

Sure it sucks for those with bad/non-existent connections, but I've read far more hurf blurf about "THEY BROKE A PROMISE" than I have actual stories about the occasional truck driver/oil rig worker/missionary in a far away land where they legitimately ordered in the belief that they could play the game where they are.

People who will genuinely miss out as a consequence of the decision should be refunded, the rest should just get over it.

Edit: as for the insurance thing, I don't see it so much as pay-to-win, but more pay-to-hurt-less-when-you-lose. It's a crutch for bad players, not a reward for good ones.

Dee Jiensai
November 21 2014, 10:20:01 PM
I

Sure it sucks for those with bad/non-existent connections, but I've read far more hurf blurf about "THEY BROKE A PROMISE" than I have actual stories about the occasional truck driver/oil rig worker/missionary in a far away land where they legitimately ordered in the belief that they could play the game where they are.



See? i dont get that AT ALL. The game does not even have a box version. its sold ONLY by download. It was Kickstarted on an ONLINE Platform. And every comment i saw about the offline mode rmoval was posted ONLINE. wtf is wrong with these people. I'd bet a fiver on half of them being too stupid to realize that offline mode is not equal to solo play.

Steckersaurus
November 21 2014, 10:26:50 PM
Sure it sucks for those with bad/non-existent connections, but I've read far more hurf blurf about "THEY BROKE A PROMISE" than I have actual stories about the occasional truck driver/oil rig worker/missionary in a far away land where they legitimately ordered in the belief that they could play the game where they are.



See? i dont get that AT ALL. The game does not even have a box version. its sold ONLY by download. It was Kickstarted on an ONLINE Platform. And every comment i saw about the offline mode rmoval was posted ONLINE. wtf is wrong with these people. I'd bet a fiver on half of them being too stupid to realize that offline mode is not equal to solo play.

The kickstarter included a boxed version at a certain level and at least a couple people said that they backed specifically because they could get a physical copy and not have to download the game. Some people have internet at work and not at home, or intermittent connections while traveling, etc. Oil rigs, military bases on foreign soil, etc.

So in the end, I can see why people wanted offline mode. Sucks for them. Frontier probably could have said something sooner about this happening, but oh well.

Personally, I'm seeing a couple worrying signs, but I've also only paid for the pre-order, nothing more. The justification for removing offline play while leaving in the online single-player was that it was important for people to be part of the living world. That somehow the stuff going on in the background was important enough that the game wouldn't be good enough without it.

And that sounds a bit too much like EVE, which has utterly terrible gameplay made tolerable by the living, breathing, player-driven world.

If the core gameplay isn't good enough to make a decent game without that living world, I'm a little worried about the quality of the core gameplay.

Ben Derindar
November 21 2014, 10:29:14 PM
Sure it sucks for those with bad/non-existent connections, but I've read far more hurf blurf about "THEY BROKE A PROMISE" than I have actual stories about the occasional truck driver/oil rig worker/missionary in a far away land where they legitimately ordered in the belief that they could play the game where they are.



See? i dont get that AT ALL. The game does not even have a box version. its sold ONLY by download. It was Kickstarted on an ONLINE Platform. And every comment i saw about the offline mode rmoval was posted ONLINE. wtf is wrong with these people. I'd bet a fiver on half of them being too stupid to realize that offline mode is not equal to solo play.

People can surf the web or post to forums via a phone, or from a computer at work, or wherever. That doesn't mean they're in a position to be able to play the game with that same kind of access.

You're definitely right that a lot of people are confusing offline mode with solo, though. Then you've got others who can't rationalise the concept of "solo online" at all. It's the same online world as everybody else, just with all the other people turned off. vOv

Lana Torrin
November 21 2014, 11:01:42 PM
I want to hear from all the people that said this game was going to be way better than SC. Do they still feel this way or have the last few weeks dented their enthusiasm?

Personally I'm still glad I got my full version and free updates for life package (right up till they change their mind on that as well).

Tapaderpin

I don't think it will be way better but SC is coming out in neveruary, and Elite is playable right now, which goes a long way.

I hear this a lot.. SC is playable right now. Its not anywhere near the game its going to be but you can jump in a dozen or so ships and either have a fight or have a race. Its about as much as game a WoT is right now.

Lana Torrin
November 21 2014, 11:08:18 PM
Sure it sucks for those with bad/non-existent connections, but I've read far more hurf blurf about "THEY BROKE A PROMISE" than I have actual stories about the occasional truck driver/oil rig worker/missionary in a far away land where they legitimately ordered in the belief that they could play the game where they are.



See? i dont get that AT ALL. The game does not even have a box version. its sold ONLY by download. It was Kickstarted on an ONLINE Platform. And every comment i saw about the offline mode rmoval was posted ONLINE. wtf is wrong with these people. I'd bet a fiver on half of them being too stupid to realize that offline mode is not equal to solo play.

People can surf the web or post to forums via a phone, or from a computer at work, or wherever. That doesn't mean they're in a position to be able to play the game with that same kind of access.

A good example of this is actually a mine site I look after.. We have about 1000 people living on site (2 weeks on 2 weeks off) and they are supplied their internet via a satellite connection. it has anywhere between 2 and 5 seconds of lag.. No milliseconds, actual seconds.. You can browse the net and its surprisingly fast but when you click on something its usually a bit before it decides to actually connect and start downloading. We run a proxy at their end that will read the incoming page and pre-grab all of the images and linked pages so they almost don't notice. You could never play a game on this link and I see steam traffic all the time. Presumably they are using their internet connection to download offline playable games.

Lana Torrin
November 21 2014, 11:13:19 PM
Question for beta tester: is it normal for the client to take FUCKING AGES to dowload the thing?

Yes. It used to take me days to download the game. I would never see it even get close to 1MBps. its actually a lot faster now.

morpheps
November 21 2014, 11:34:21 PM
According to the latest newsletter; the required connection equals about 10kpbs for solo play.

Paradox
November 21 2014, 11:56:56 PM
According to the latest newsletter; the required connection equals about 10kpbs for solo play.

What about ping?

Lana Torrin
November 22 2014, 12:12:56 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

Isyel
November 22 2014, 12:19:33 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

i bet they have something in there that defends this

i find it funny people are defending it so much tho, seeing as if it were any game but this they'd be all ripping it a new one for the next few weeks. the starvation for space games that bad?

no offline mode sucks balls and really should have been in imo, but ah well... we'll live

Lana Torrin
November 22 2014, 12:25:08 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

i bet they have something in there that defends this


IANAL but I'm pretty sure any wavers they include still cant override your basic legal rights. I have no idea about consumer laws in the US or if this has been tested in court yet, I just find it interesting that people seem to accept this sort of thing and no one has gotten the shit sued out of them yet.

Traditional methods of getting money (ie, investors) is a different kettle of fish as they actually have a say and shares in the product. The law is quite clearly defined for that practice. I'm just wondering if this whole crowd funding thing slips between the cracks in the legal arena or if its actually defined well..

morpheps
November 22 2014, 12:25:58 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

I suggest you read the terms of use for kickstarter. Unlike your real estate project, there is no contract involved. It would be interesting to see some legal rulings on this though.

Izo Azlion
November 22 2014, 12:29:59 AM
NO ONE GIVES A FUCK

Steckersaurus
November 22 2014, 01:02:00 AM
Yeah, it's a kickstarter. You're giving them money to do something, and you don't even have a guarantee that they're going to be successful at all. In this case, they've been largely successful, but had to drop one of the features they'd planned on including. This is unfortunate, but not a huge deal.

Approaching Walrus
November 22 2014, 03:06:15 AM
I hear this a lot.. SC is playable right now. Its not anywhere near the game its going to be but you can jump in a dozen or so ships and either have a fight or have a race. Its about as much as game a WoT is right now.

SC is playable in the same way Infinity was playable with the combat prototype. I don't want to turn this into a big SC vs Elite shitposting fest so I'll just leave it at that.

Lana Torrin
November 22 2014, 04:36:59 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

I suggest you read the terms of use for kickstarter. Unlike your real estate project, there is no contract involved. It would be interesting to see some legal rulings on this though.
My point is terms or otherwise they still can't remove your rights as a consumer. I could easily see a court agreeing a pledge for a reward constitutes a sale in which case normal consumer laws would apply.

Like I said I don't care about single player at all, I'm just interested in the possibility that the studio that makes a game I like might get sued to hell and back shutting down the game I like. (which coincidentally also wouldn't be an issue of they had single player offline as a feature)

Tapaderpin

Ben Derindar
November 22 2014, 04:52:49 AM
Like I said I don't care about single player at all, I'm just interested in the possibility that the studio that makes a game I like might get sued to hell and back shutting down the game I like. (which coincidentally also wouldn't be an issue of they had single player offline as a feature)

DB has already answered this question in the latest newsletter (http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=6b99a1d038):


What is Frontier's plan for when the servers shut down?
We do not plan to shut the servers down, but understand it is a reasonable question. We are at the beginning of the game not the end and are focused on creating a game that we hope will be played for many years in the future. We do plan to take regular archives of the game and the servers, to preserve the game for the future.

Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.

TheManFromDelmonte
November 22 2014, 05:17:51 AM
The promise for that is cheap.

In practice any administrator brought in would never give away the biggest asset. If things are bad enough you want them to release the source they no longer have the authority over their company to do it.

Dee Jiensai
November 22 2014, 08:13:15 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

I suggest you read the terms of use for kickstarter. Unlike your real estate project, there is no contract involved. It would be interesting to see some legal rulings on this though.
My point is terms or otherwise they still can't remove your rights as a consumer. I could easily see a court agreeing a pledge for a reward constitutes a sale in which case normal consumer laws would apply.



Easily answered: On kickstarter you dont buy anything. On kickstarter you give someone or some company money for some project. And as a recognition for your support you get a present from them.
Look at the wording in every kickstarter project. Its not "price", its "pledge". Its not "buy" its "support", its not "you bought this or that" its "you get this or that reward"

TZeer
November 22 2014, 08:39:03 AM
All I can decipher from all the moaning about no single player..... there is a lot of whining cunts around.

Lana Torrin
November 22 2014, 08:46:10 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

I suggest you read the terms of use for kickstarter. Unlike your real estate project, there is no contract involved. It would be interesting to see some legal rulings on this though.
My point is terms or otherwise they still can't remove your rights as a consumer. I could easily see a court agreeing a pledge for a reward constitutes a sale in which case normal consumer laws would apply.



Easily answered: On kickstarter you dont buy anything. On kickstarter you give someone or some company money for some project. And as a recognition for your support you get a present from them.
Look at the wording in every kickstarter project. Its not "price", its "pledge". Its not "buy" its "support", its not "you bought this or that" its "you get this or that reward"

The problem is, and honestly I think this would take a court to decide, that giving money and getting something in return is the very definition of a purchase. I realize the whole kickstarter system is based on giving someone money to hopefully make something you want, but that could easily constitute a contract. Its written down, both parties agreed, money changed hands.

Anyway, this really is just a curiosity I have on the matter so we can stop discussing it now if everyone wants. I could very well be wrong on the subject as I honestly don't know enough about the surrounding laws, I'm just surprised no one seems to have tried yet.

Edit: Oh yeah.. I have a GTX970 now and the game looks fucking awesome at max everything running smoothly.

QuackBot
November 22 2014, 09:00:18 AM
My point is terms or otherwise they still can't remove your rights as a consumer. I could easily see a court agreeing a pledge for a reward constitutes a sale in which case normal consumer laws would apply.

Like I said I don't care about single player at all, I'm just interested in the possibility that the studio that makes a game I like might get sued to hell and back shutting down the game I like. (which coincidentally also wouldn't be an issue of they had single player offline as a feature)

Tapaderpin
Might do that tonight.

Torashuu
November 22 2014, 09:47:17 AM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

I suggest you read the terms of use for kickstarter. Unlike your real estate project, there is no contract involved. It would be interesting to see some legal rulings on this though.
My point is terms or otherwise they still can't remove your rights as a consumer. I could easily see a court agreeing a pledge for a reward constitutes a sale in which case normal consumer laws would apply.



Easily answered: On kickstarter you dont buy anything. On kickstarter you give someone or some company money for some project. And as a recognition for your support you get a present from them.
Look at the wording in every kickstarter project. Its not "price", its "pledge". Its not "buy" its "support", its not "you bought this or that" its "you get this or that reward"

The problem is, and honestly I think this would take a court to decide, that giving money and getting something in return is the very definition of a purchase. I realize the whole kickstarter system is based on giving someone money to hopefully make something you want, but that could easily constitute a contract. Its written down, both parties agreed, money changed hands.

Anyway, this really is just a curiosity I have on the matter so we can stop discussing it now if everyone wants. I could very well be wrong on the subject as I honestly don't know enough about the surrounding laws, I'm just surprised no one seems to have tried yet.

Edit: Oh yeah.. I have a GTX970 now and the game looks fucking awesome at max everything running smoothly.

Stuff like real estate build plans change all the time as well, silly shit like doors changed to open in the other direction. rerouting wiring because during the building it turns out it wouldn't work as planned. Adding extra heating because the planned amount of heaters would have insufficient capacity to keep the house warm. These are not breaches of contract by any measure.

And not just in real estate, any kind of big project has goals that are altered halfway through, from recent memory at work a research grant used to develop method A to do X turned out method A probably isn't realistic at all, so time to do method B instead. This is a grant worth millions over a multiyear project. I can guarantee you no one is going to sue anyone over it or demand their money back.

Lana Torrin
November 22 2014, 10:05:49 AM
Stuff like real estate build plans change all the time as well, silly shit like doors changed to open in the other direction. rerouting wiring because during the building it turns out it wouldn't work as planned. Adding extra heating because the planned amount of heaters would have insufficient capacity to keep the house warm. These are not breaches of contract by any measure.

Perhaps that's a US thing but in Australia if the builder deviated from the plan even to do things like put different door knobs on, that would be a breach of contract. Any alteration, no matter how small and insignificant, would need to be signed off by both parties. I have a couple of friends that do this thing for a living and the number of stories I head about what petty thing contractor X got sued for is mind boggling. I know when I built the tiles I had chosen for my bathroom were out of production when it came time to do that bit, and building literally stopped until the contract was amended with my new selection and both parties agreed.

But like I said, this was simply a curiosity.

Isyel
November 22 2014, 10:21:19 AM
Stuff like real estate build plans change all the time as well, silly shit like doors changed to open in the other direction. rerouting wiring because during the building it turns out it wouldn't work as planned. Adding extra heating because the planned amount of heaters would have insufficient capacity to keep the house warm. These are not breaches of contract by any measure.

Perhaps that's a US thing but in Australia if the builder deviated from the plan even to do things like put different door knobs on, that would be a breach of contract. Any alteration, no matter how small and insignificant, would need to be signed off by both parties. I have a couple of friends that do this thing for a living and the number of stories I head about what petty thing contractor X got sued for is mind boggling. I know when I built the tiles I had chosen for my bathroom were out of production when it came time to do that bit, and building literally stopped until the contract was amended with my new selection and both parties agreed.

But like I said, this was simply a curiosity.

donating on kickstarter and signing contracts for buildings etc. have absolutely nothing in common, youre basing it all on horribly flawed logic

there is no contract as such, and as long as the game is delivered in roughly the parameters it was meant to be its all fair game afaik

Kai
November 22 2014, 10:38:41 AM
Stuff like real estate build plans change all the time as well, silly shit like doors changed to open in the other direction. rerouting wiring because during the building it turns out it wouldn't work as planned. Adding extra heating because the planned amount of heaters would have insufficient capacity to keep the house warm. These are not breaches of contract by any measure.

Perhaps that's a US thing but in Australia if the builder deviated from the plan even to do things like put different door knobs on, that would be a breach of contract. Any alteration, no matter how small and insignificant, would need to be signed off by both parties. I have a couple of friends that do this thing for a living and the number of stories I head about what petty thing contractor X got sued for is mind boggling. I know when I built the tiles I had chosen for my bathroom were out of production when it came time to do that bit, and building literally stopped until the contract was amended with my new selection and both parties agreed.

But like I said, this was simply a curiosity.

donating on kickstarter and signing contracts for buildings etc. have absolutely nothing in common, youre basing it all on horribly flawed logic

there is no contract as such, and as long as the game is delivered in roughly the parameters it was meant to be its all fair game afaik

True. And I think you'll find they used language like 'plan to do x' not 'will have x'.

Darkening
November 22 2014, 11:00:13 AM
Ordered the Thrustmaster T-Flight hotas x for this and SC.

tgl3
November 22 2014, 12:44:56 PM
Game patched to Gamma release (EDIT: or will be within the hour, my bad)
Patch notes; https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62454

- Playable area no longer restricted to beta bubble
- Playable ship Python added
- Playable ship Orca added
- Kickstarter starting ships and locations added
- Capital ship events added

- Fix crash following docking and accessing starport services
- Fix for multiple input devices not working - for example pedals and throttle from multiple input device controllers
- Chances for USSs increased
- Fix for cargo hatch not ejecting any cargo when malfunctioning
- Workaround for AMD white lines issue
- Check to make sure the target is this machine that this machine is ready to receive authority
- New games account for fines, bounties, and permits
- Added missing text strings for Federal and Imperial missions
- NPC Comms in Another Castle Unidentified Signal Sources should now only display the new target destination rather than listing multiple destinations


Sol here I come!

Saul
November 22 2014, 01:04:22 PM
Not quite yet. Should be sometime in the next 15 minutes if the dev post time-frame is accurate.

Saul
November 22 2014, 01:35:40 PM
Update is now live.

Nax
November 22 2014, 01:45:45 PM
True. And I think you'll find they used language like 'plan to do x' not 'will have x'.
They used "will have x". In fact the kickstarter was pretty declarative.

"Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate)."

From the FAQ on the kickstarter web page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous

That said whilst I think that offline Elite would certainly be beneficial I'm not part of the refund crowd and I aim to play the game regardless. If I lose my internet connectivity I will be sad though.

Tailn
November 22 2014, 02:45:58 PM
According to the latest newsletter; the required connection equals about 10kpbs for solo play.

What about ping?

Solo play does not care about ping, the only connection that you have to the servers is essentially purely to the market and any other world changes that may occur to keep the whole thing from being static. It does seem a shame that they cant create some sort of '2d' server that just serves up a static world instead of talking to the master universe servers to allow for offline play. Though I can also hear the amount of bad press that could be generated by that and the deviation from the 'artistic' intent of the game they are trying to make, one that feels like there is something going on around you a real active universe.

Cosmin
November 22 2014, 02:51:45 PM
First of all I have to apologise for my language skills, I don't really consider anyone posting here a moron :mrgreen: Otherwise, I'd just avoid FHC for good, as I've done with a lot of other forums I sensed the stupid to intelligent ratio was plummeting towards infinity.


So, it can be quite irrational to buy a game and hope that some features you are looking for wil be implemented eventually, but depending on your point of view it might also be very rational to buy in early.
I guess it boils down to cost vs. trust. If you trust the developer enough to deliver, a higher cost might be acceptable (higher in the sense that you might waste money for a game that you dont play, or in higher beta prices)

This is a good post I +repped. Then you come back and post this.



I

Sure it sucks for those with bad/non-existent connections, but I've read far more hurf blurf about "THEY BROKE A PROMISE" than I have actual stories about the occasional truck driver/oil rig worker/missionary in a far away land where they legitimately ordered in the belief that they could play the game where they are.



See? i dont get that AT ALL. The game does not even have a box version. its sold ONLY by download. It was Kickstarted on an ONLINE Platform. And every comment i saw about the offline mode rmoval was posted ONLINE. wtf is wrong with these people. I'd bet a fiver on half of them being too stupid to realize that offline mode is not equal to solo play.
First - what. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatWhat) As previously said, having an internet connection doesn't automagically make the game playable. The internet connection I'm using whilst away from home is 3G tethering from my phone to my devices and it can barely support a Hearthstone match or an EvE Online chat whilst docked. If I undock, all shit breaks loose. Can't even play Starcraft 2 VS AI mode, because guess what. It requires me to be online. For a match VS AI. The fuck.

I can read/post on forums (praise freaking Tapatalk), I can browse stalkbook (slowly, because everybody uploads unresized photos because reasons) and that's about it. An online search takes me sometimes minutes just to display results.




You're definitely right that a lot of people are confusing offline mode with solo, though. Then you've got others who can't rationalise the concept of "solo online" at all. It's the same online world as everybody else, just with all the other people turned off. vOv

According to the latest newsletter; the required connection equals about 10kpbs for solo play.

I hope we can agree nobody around FHC is that autistic as to confuse offline mode with solo play. Also, having to be online whilst playing solo just so the galaxy can sync (over a 10kbps connection) is simply retarded. That much data that would be necessary to be synced (as they leave us to believe) could be processed locally or once every week or whatever. What I am afraid of is that it is just a freaking always online DRM piece of shit that Ubisoft pioneered and got a ton of flak for, but nobody seems to fucking learn from.


I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises.
So am I, but then again let's drop the kickstarter thing. Let's be clear about something. I don't give a shit about Kickstarter promises. I haven't paid for early access (I only entered the game 3-4 times and dicked around then shut it down and awaited the launch, same thing I did with Assetto Corsa and Wasteland2). I've paid for Elite Dangerous + all expansions. The beta thing was just a nice bonus to have, but that's it. I've bought the game from their online store, so if that doesn't qualify as a purchase, I don't know what does. For me, it's like saying "here's a spaceship game that you'd be able to play wherever you are" then taking monies and 1 month prior to launch they go "here's a spaceship game that you can only play if you have an active internet connection". And that's a shit move no matter how you look at it.

I'm not going to go for a refund, but I am really tempted. Why not? Because the game looks good, plays good, is good. Almost everything that they've promised is there. Except offline mode. It's retarded. It's similar to having a car built for your father and then on delivery you take a giant shit in the driver's seat. Because reasons.

I find it hard to believe the dev team didn't know that offline mode would be "impossible" so far down the line as to say it one month prior to launch.

And I think I smell SimCity levels of bullshit. Also, bots.

rufuske
November 22 2014, 02:55:44 PM
So, where can I find a link to downloading. I have a preorder, but there's nothing in the store.

Badboy K
November 22 2014, 03:22:33 PM
So, where can I find a link to downloading. I have a preorder, but there's nothing in the store.

Where can I find and download my digital products?

First, make sure you have signed in.
Digital products will be available on your account by going to MY ACCOUNT > My Downloadable Products. If the product is available for download, there will be a red icon in the Download column, next to your product's title.

GiDiYi
November 22 2014, 03:38:42 PM
Is it possible that the servers are under a bit of stress? I keep crashing out.

Bombcrater
November 22 2014, 03:42:34 PM
It's the same every time they release a new build, servers can't cope at all.

Steckersaurus
November 22 2014, 03:58:17 PM
So, where can I find a link to downloading. I have a preorder, but there's nothing in the store.

It looks like the suggestion that pre-orders would have gamma access may have been false. Last I saw, only beta access gets you access to the gamma, pre-orders have to wait until December.

Which is probably good, given that I have a paper to write between now and then.

Cosmin
November 22 2014, 04:11:38 PM
It's the same every time they release a new build, servers can't cope at all.

And the game launch will be awesome, with everybody and their mum trying to get online to play single player.

Ok, ok, that's the last time, promise.

Saul
November 22 2014, 04:29:06 PM
Crispness to the gfx since 3.9 is good. Feels odd being punted out halfway to the middle of nowhere with 100 credits. Already been ganked by an NPC Cobra (first volley drops shield and hull to 65% gg). Seen a few players, good money to be made exploring it seems.

Edit: also crashing. happens every patch. this one will be especially bad, lots of people waiting for gamma.

GiDiYi
November 22 2014, 05:03:51 PM
So far I've just done one small cargo run inside my starting system. I had to evade 3 interceptions along the route (which was rather short). What the hell?

Frug
November 22 2014, 05:22:03 PM
How's this game going to handle the Jita effect?

Bombcrater
November 22 2014, 05:30:18 PM
I uses instances. More than (I think) 64 players in one area and the game spawns a new instance, so in theory server performance shouldn't be an issue. But there still seems to be some kind of major bottleneck somewhere, because even in Solo mode where you have an instance to yourself with just NPCs for company there are regular performance problems.

Frug
November 22 2014, 05:39:14 PM
I uses instances. More than (I think) 64 players in one area and the game spawns a new instance, so in theory server performance shouldn't be an issue. But there still seems to be some kind of major bottleneck somewhere, because even in Solo mode where you have an instance to yourself with just NPCs for company there are regular performance problems.
Well, teething problems, etc.

So if you're the 65th person into an area, spawns new instance, and the next 63 people in get to join your instance? Is this supposed to support fleet fights? Cause 32vs32 being a max will be a problem, especially if you have two instances of, say, 63 on one side randomly getting pinned up against 1 person on the other.

Tailn
November 22 2014, 05:41:46 PM
I uses instances. More than (I think) 64 players in one area and the game spawns a new instance, so in theory server performance shouldn't be an issue. But there still seems to be some kind of major bottleneck somewhere, because even in Solo mode where you have an instance to yourself with just NPCs for company there are regular performance problems.
Well, teething problems, etc.

So if you're the 65th person into an area, spawns new instance, and the next 63 people in get to join your instance? Is this supposed to support fleet fights? Cause 32vs32 being a max will be a problem, especially if you have two instances of, say, 63 on one side randomly getting pinned up against 1 person on the other.

Its nt supposed to have any thing to do with fleets, infact grouping other than casual stuff is about as far as it is expected to go.

morpheps
November 22 2014, 06:56:25 PM
I'm a bit interested in why people are defending this dropping of kickstarter promises. In any other equivalent situation this would be considered illegal. I've been looking at purchasing a rental property as an investment and you can buy flats off the plan that haven't been built yet. You go in, you pay your deposit and they start building. Under no circumstance would them not delivering what was promised be considered legal.

Is it because its a pledge or donation? I'm pretty sure if you pledged at a food drive and they took the money and instead of buying food for the homeless like they said they would they spent the money on hookers and blow, they would be facing jail time for fraud.

I'm just interested why people believe that the promises made during a kickstarter hold less legal weight than those made via any other means.

I suggest you read the terms of use for kickstarter. Unlike your real estate project, there is no contract involved. It would be interesting to see some legal rulings on this though.
My point is terms or otherwise they still can't remove your rights as a consumer. I could easily see a court agreeing a pledge for a reward constitutes a sale in which case normal consumer laws would apply.

Like I said I don't care about single player at all, I'm just interested in the possibility that the studio that makes a game I like might get sued to hell and back shutting down the game I like. (which coincidentally also wouldn't be an issue of they had single player offline as a feature)

Tapaderpin

I've googled a bit, and there is a case scheduled for court next year in Murica (Washington State + Class action vs. Asylum Playing Cards). That case is very different though; they didn't rewards or the game itself. Some stuff to read for those who care:
- Kickstarter legal guide (http://www.nwcorporatelaw.com/kickstarter-legal-guide/)
- Accountability on kickstarter (kickstarter blog) (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/accountability-on-kickstarter)
- When crowdfunding goes bust: Fraud and consequences (http://virtualcrimlaw.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/when-crowdfunding-goes-bust-fraud-and-consequences-2/)

I view the stuff I back on KS as an investment. It may fail, or not. Do your due diligence, put up the cash, or don't.

Darkening
November 22 2014, 07:10:13 PM
So, where can I find a link to downloading. I have a preorder, but there's nothing in the store.

It looks like the suggestion that pre-orders would have gamma access may have been false. Last I saw, only beta access gets you access to the gamma, pre-orders have to wait until December.

Which is probably good, given that I have a paper to write between now and then.

Swear i saw gamma access for preorders the other day right before i placed my order.

Saul
November 22 2014, 07:12:13 PM
Gamma players: don't forget to post your commander name/update the main spreadsheet so we at least have a slight chance of meeting up.

pazuzu
November 22 2014, 07:29:04 PM
noice, popped a sidewinder and an eagle with my puny noobwinder

finding places to buy equipment is a chore

Steckersaurus
November 22 2014, 09:14:26 PM
So, where can I find a link to downloading. I have a preorder, but there's nothing in the store.

It looks like the suggestion that pre-orders would have gamma access may have been false. Last I saw, only beta access gets you access to the gamma, pre-orders have to wait until December.

Which is probably good, given that I have a paper to write between now and then.

Swear i saw gamma access for preorders the other day right before i placed my order.

Yup, me too, was looking forward to that. But I think some of the more recent communication from Frontier clarified/contradicted that, said that only people who had access to beta would get access to gamma, everyone else would wait. Mildly disappointed but it's probably for the best. I'll break in the Hotas Warthog over christmas.

Bombcrater
November 22 2014, 09:26:49 PM
So if you're the 65th person into an area, spawns new instance, and the next 63 people in get to join your instance? Is this supposed to support fleet fights? Cause 32vs32 being a max will be a problem, especially if you have two instances of, say, 63 on one side randomly getting pinned up against 1 person on the other.
ED isn't built to support fleet fights, in fact the devs have specifically designed against it. It's more of a 'me against the universe' game with basic support for small groups.

The server seems to try and balance instances according to some formula that nobody's really figured out yet, so its behaviour isn't obviously consistent. Two people can jump into a remote and lightly populated system and there's no guarantee they'll end up in the same instance, just a strong probability that they will. You can form a group with other people and the server will ensure they all stay in the same instance, but there's no way of meeting another specific player or group other than by sheer luck, so fleet fights just don't happen. A group can still hunt random lone players to gank, but it's not too hard for a reasonably skilled pilot to get away.

GiDiYi
November 22 2014, 10:03:03 PM
Gamma players: don't forget to post your commander name/update the main spreadsheet so we at least have a slight chance of meeting up.

Done. Dropped you a friend request as well.

Edit: Mining, how does it work?

Thorjak
November 22 2014, 10:12:22 PM
Pre-order people now get access to single player tutorials from Wednesday. Better than nothing I guess, but I was convinced I'd get gamma access till that round of bad announcements came up.

rufuske
November 22 2014, 10:16:35 PM
I was hoping I will spend weekend playing it. :(

Darkening
November 22 2014, 10:52:33 PM
http://www.twitch.tv/elitedangerous/b/591647650

Replay of the live stream.

Dee Jiensai
November 22 2014, 10:57:12 PM
Just played 2 hours or so, and it feels a lot more complete than last patch.

Standings are in, which reflect on missions you can take, and it look like you get more rewarding missions only f you have standing with the faction.
USSs have nice stuff. i found one during a transport mission where the npc offerd me a deal, and my mission had added alternative drop off locations and rewards.
Another USS had cans with "military plans" in it, dont even want to know how hot that cargo is. need to find a black market to get rid of it without being scanned, that might get interesting.

Exploration seems to give some additional cash, but i have not yet spent much time on it, just scanned some celestials when i was close anyway.

The fitting screen is much better again, and you can even move items between slots (if they fit, i assume :))

Also, you can now fit undersized shields. I think thats new, and when i tried that last patch it didnt work. Now i have my freegle class 3 shield replaced with a cargo hold, and fitted a class 2 shield.
It will be interesting to see if higher grade lower class shields can be better or if higher class is allways preferable.

All in all, definately a much more rounded game experience. looking forward to the final release now more than ever.

GiDiYi
November 22 2014, 11:54:04 PM
Edit: Mining, how does it work?

I found out.

That refining window is a bit unintuitive if you ask me. I vented a lot of shit before I realised how it works.

Ben Derindar
November 22 2014, 11:54:37 PM
Mining, how does it work?

1. Have mining laser and refinery equipped.
2. Find belt with meaningful reserves (pristine or major).
3. Warp in, approach rock, fire laser at rock.
4. Collect rock fragments with your cargo scoop as they blasted into space.
5. Check your refinery module, process the bits you want, jettison the bits you don't.
6. Repeat until cargo is full, warp to station, sell, profit.

Approaching Walrus
November 23 2014, 12:07:22 AM
Are there decent grouping and guild/corp tools yet?

Lana Torrin
November 23 2014, 12:09:50 AM
Are there any grouping tools yet?

FYP. I am not actually sure as I have no friends.

Saul
November 23 2014, 12:16:17 AM
My Freagle is 160 ly away :/

Edit: Nicholai invited me to a group; I joined, but I don't know if it's for fleets or corp/whatever.

Tailn
November 23 2014, 12:19:10 AM
Are there decent grouping and guild/corp tools yet?

Nope and there wont be, the group, and friends lists are all we can expect the game is focused on SOLO play in a big world perhaps meeting up with some friends along the way.

Approaching Walrus
November 23 2014, 12:23:12 AM
Are there decent grouping and guild/corp tools yet?

Nope and there wont be, the group, and friends lists are all we can expect the game is focused on SOLO play in a big world perhaps meeting up with some friends along the way.


We've always been clear that the game is first and foremost a multiplayer game. Multiplayer and the evolving galaxy were the two core pillars that set this as something new and special for the Elite series.

So it's a solo multiplayer game then?

source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60916&page=26&p=1038217&viewfull=1#post1038217

Tailn
November 23 2014, 12:41:09 AM
Are there decent grouping and guild/corp tools yet?

Nope and there wont be, the group, and friends lists are all we can expect the game is focused on SOLO play in a big world perhaps meeting up with some friends along the way.


We've always been clear that the game is first and foremost a multiplayer game. Multiplayer and the evolving galaxy were the two core pillars that set this as something new and special for the Elite series.

So it's a solo multiplayer game then?

source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60916&page=26&p=1038217&viewfull=1#post1038217

Hrmm I want to disagree with that statement but I cant really and can only add 'with the option to meet friends'.

Kai
November 23 2014, 12:46:57 AM
Are there decent grouping and guild/corp tools yet?

Nope and there wont be, the group, and friends lists are all we can expect the game is focused on SOLO play in a big world perhaps meeting up with some friends along the way.


We've always been clear that the game is first and foremost a multiplayer game. Multiplayer and the evolving galaxy were the two core pillars that set this as something new and special for the Elite series.

So it's a solo multiplayer game then?

source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60916&page=26&p=1038217&viewfull=1#post1038217

Hrmm I want to disagree with that statement but I cant really and can only add 'with the option to meet friends'.

Looks like we have the core point of difference between Elilte and SC then.

Nicholai Pestot
November 23 2014, 01:19:54 AM
My Freagle is 160 ly away :/

Edit: Nicholai invited me to a group; I joined, but I don't know if it's for fleets or corp/whatever.

You can start playing in 'private group' mode. If you do that, its the same as Solo mode but your group buddies will also be able to fly around with you.

That's the theory at least. Buggy as hell.

Lana Torrin
November 23 2014, 01:56:56 AM
Gamma 1.0 now released

Approaching Walrus
November 23 2014, 03:24:51 AM
Nope and there wont be, the group, and friends lists are all we can expect the game is focused on SOLO play in a big world perhaps meeting up with some friends along the way.
We've always been clear that the game is first and foremost a multiplayer game. Multiplayer and the evolving galaxy were the two core pillars that set this as something new and special for the Elite series.

So it's a solo multiplayer game then?

source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60916&page=26&p=1038217&viewfull=1#post1038217

Hrmm I want to disagree with that statement but I cant really and can only add 'with the option to meet friends'.

Looks like we have the core point of difference between Elilte and SC then.

I hope they address this by release.

In my opinion, you can't say a game is multiplayer and then inhibit player interactions the way Elite does with it's lack of direct trading of assets and money between players, lack of social group building tools (guilds/corps/whatever), lack of universal chat channels, and lack of an easy way to meet up with group members in space. I hope some of these were addressed by gamma release but I have not heard anything contradicting this.

If Frontier truly intends to sell this as a multiplayer experience, and not as a single player sandbox that you can play anywhere anytime then they need to add these key social features by their launch day in December or the game and it's playerbase will suffer for it.

helgur
November 23 2014, 03:35:54 AM
I don't really think Braben & Co. have made up their mind what kind of multiplayer this game has/going to have

Earlier they said Elite is evolving into an MMO, but judging by the tools player will have to interact with eachother it isn't an MMO, well which is it?

Frug
November 23 2014, 03:59:23 AM
The server seems to try and balance instances according to some formula that nobody's really figured out yet, so its behaviour isn't obviously consistent. Two people can jump into a remote and lightly populated system and there's no guarantee they'll end up in the same instance, just a strong probability that they will. You can form a group with other people and the server will ensure they all stay in the same instance, but there's no way of meeting another specific player or group other than by sheer luck, so fleet fights just don't happen. A group can still hunt random lone players to gank, but it's not too hard for a reasonably skilled pilot to get away.

Sounds reasonable. I mean, it sounds imperfect, but I don't see a perfect solution.

Please tell me it doesn't have local chat that lists everyone in the solar system. ie: the stupidest fucking thing in all of Eve.

Nicholai Pestot
November 23 2014, 04:10:31 AM
The server seems to try and balance instances according to some formula that nobody's really figured out yet, so its behaviour isn't obviously consistent. Two people can jump into a remote and lightly populated system and there's no guarantee they'll end up in the same instance, just a strong probability that they will. You can form a group with other people and the server will ensure they all stay in the same instance, but there's no way of meeting another specific player or group other than by sheer luck, so fleet fights just don't happen. A group can still hunt random lone players to gank, but it's not too hard for a reasonably skilled pilot to get away.

Sounds reasonable. I mean, it sounds imperfect, but I don't see a perfect solution.

Please tell me it doesn't have local chat that lists everyone in the solar system. ie: the stupidest fucking thing in all of Eve.

You have a local chat equivalent for your local area (eg around a station or in a belt), but its only populated with stuff you can see and only exposes information you have discovered. Your friends/group mates are always on this quick-list as well.

You can see 'sidewinder' and open a text chat with it, then when you get a bit closer and scan it see who the pilot actually is, at which point its name on the list changes from 'sidewinder' to the name of the pilot.



In my opinion, you can't say a game is multiplayer and then inhibit player interactions the way Elite does with it's lack of direct trading of assets and money between players, lack of social group building tools (guilds/corps/whatever), lack of universal chat channels, and lack of an easy way to meet up with group members in space. I hope some of these were addressed by gamma release but I have not heard anything contradicting this.


You can already trade with other players (it was added in the last beta patch before gamma).
Alliances will be added soon
Meeting group members in space is easy, just a bit buggy.
Universal chat channels are not suitable for this game. It intentionally limits your access to information (example - having to purchase trade information/survey information from remote systems), which becomes pointless with universal chat.

Approaching Walrus
November 23 2014, 07:54:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnN7nzcHy38

Some of the planets and moons do not seem to be appropriately textured yet. Also earth is offset 90* apparently.

Glad to see group/social features are being addressed Nicholai.

Lana Torrin
November 23 2014, 12:05:37 PM
Been playing for a few hours. Starting with 100 credits sucks. Picked up some courier missions and im now about half way to a new ship. I think im going to go the space road truckers route again. Build up the cash.

QuackBot
November 23 2014, 01:00:14 PM
So it's a solo multiplayer game then?

source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60916&page=26&p=1038217&viewfull=1#post1038217
I actually had some pretty stellar success with a single cash-cow in the game so you can see there.

Saul
November 23 2014, 03:20:25 PM
Post your characters if you're playing and we can see if anyone is close by. Morti isn't too far from me iirc, Nicholai is 160-odd ly. I'm in/around Zaragas atm.

Corwyna
November 23 2014, 03:22:52 PM
Been playing for a few hours. Starting with 100 credits sucks. Picked up some courier missions and im now about half way to a new ship. I think im going to go the space road truckers route again. Build up the cash.
If you don't like starting from scratch why do you play before last wipe?

Torashuu
November 23 2014, 03:24:55 PM
Because game is fun?

Rakshasa The Cat
November 23 2014, 03:28:23 PM
We're past november 22 now, so no more wipes afaicr.

Bombcrater
November 23 2014, 03:51:19 PM
Been playing for a few hours. Starting with 100 credits sucks. Picked up some courier missions and im now about half way to a new ship. I think im going to go the space road truckers route again. Build up the cash.
It may be worth checking the stored ships screen to see if you've got a second ship somewhere. Both the starting options I've tried come with a free second ship that you can sell right away, dunno if everyone gets that or if it's some kind of early backer reward.

Reynolds
November 23 2014, 05:14:41 PM
That's the pre-order reward of a free eagle

Saul
November 23 2014, 05:29:00 PM
We're past november 22 now, so no more wipes afaicr.

There is probably going to be a wipe on the 16th now. But game is good so don't mind starting again.

Kilabi
November 23 2014, 05:46:51 PM
I held back with playing at all up till now. So this is a good way to learn the basics before they do the last reset.

Cosmin
November 23 2014, 09:18:37 PM
So killed an experienced piwat with my noob sidewinder, got 22k CR reward but no increase in my uber combat thingie rank? Also an example of PvE done right, I would've probably taken ages to kill it (took around 10 minutes anyway), the poleece dropped in thanking me for the help. The pirate also ejected some cargo thingies but I chased him until I killed him and couldn't find the thingies. How should I use that scanner thingie so I don't lose expensive stuff like that again?

GiDiYi
November 23 2014, 09:26:53 PM
So killed an experienced piwat with my noob sidewinder, got 22k CR reward

Congratulations. I got intercepted by an ebil pirate and thought "No, not this time. The line won't be crossed here!"

So I ran away as fast as I could. OP success.

Cosmin
November 23 2014, 10:11:17 PM
Fun fact I killed a harmless NPC that aggressed me at the Sun (lol) with an Eagle (I was in a Sidewinder). Killed him then my ship overheated. I dropped out of warp and went to silent mode (heat was 122 smth smth) but the heat just went up and up and up and I kersploded. Wat.

Dee Jiensai
November 23 2014, 10:14:50 PM
Fun fact I killed a harmless NPC that aggressed me at the Sun (lol) with an Eagle (I was in a Sidewinder). Killed him then my ship overheated. I dropped out of warp and went to silent mode (heat was 122 smth smth) but the heat just went up and up and up and I kersploded. Wat.

Erm.. I think you might have that silen running thing backwards: it keeps your ship cool on the outside by keeping all heat inside. it doesnt make your ship magically cooler.

Steckersaurus
November 23 2014, 10:15:24 PM
Fun fact I killed a harmless NPC that aggressed me at the Sun (lol) with an Eagle (I was in a Sidewinder). Killed him then my ship overheated. I dropped out of warp and went to silent mode (heat was 122 smth smth) but the heat just went up and up and up and I kersploded. Wat.

Silent mode means you stop dissipating heat in order to make yourself not show up on sensors as much. You do it for very long and you overheat.

Nicholai Pestot
November 23 2014, 10:15:29 PM
Fun fact I killed a harmless NPC that aggressed me at the Sun (lol) with an Eagle (I was in a Sidewinder). Killed him then my ship overheated. I dropped out of warp and went to silent mode (heat was 122 smth smth) but the heat just went up and up and up and I kersploded. Wat.

'Silent mode' includes dropping your external heat signature to zero, which means keeping all your generated heat internal instead of letting it safely dissipate into the void. All that lovely void-cooling your reactor was getting...its not getting it any more.

Its the worst possible thing you can do when overheating, bar going swimming in a star. You managed to combine the two :shock:

Dee Jiensai
November 23 2014, 10:19:12 PM
So killed an experienced piwat with my noob sidewinder, got 22k CR reward but no increase in my uber combat thingie rank? Also an example of PvE done right, I would've probably taken ages to kill it (took around 10 minutes anyway), the poleece dropped in thanking me for the help. The pirate also ejected some cargo thingies but I chased him until I killed him and couldn't find the thingies. How should I use that scanner thingie so I don't lose expensive stuff like that again?

Your Uber combat thingie rank doent rise that fast. in fact i personally have yet to see it rise at all :P

and the cargo thingies only last 5 minutes before they vanish (at least thats what i heard)

The scanner thingie has an adjustable range, see key bindings. you can also buy an upgraded one with more range. standard has only 4km, havin 6km is very nice for combat.

Cosmin
November 23 2014, 11:32:49 PM
Right so basically that is why the heat levels were rising so violently :D I haz'd le dumb in a big way. So wat do to cool down except using heat sinks? I frantically tried to shut stuff down but the reactor can't really be turned off I think.

Right now I'm p. much close to getting my long sought after Viper so I can go and murder stuff properly but really having a blast with the Sidewinder. Great little ship. Also had my first queue to dock (derp). Some station with only 2 platforms accepted me only after everybody around docked (in order). Kinda silly but w/e.


Edit: the cargo problem wasn't time but the fact that I got out of range of it and couldn't see it on my radar thingie so I abandoned the idea.

Lana Torrin
November 23 2014, 11:39:23 PM
Because game is fun?
This.

I also didn't play all of beta3 so I thought I would pick up on what extras there are. What are the colours on the radar for?

Tapaderpin

Saul
November 24 2014, 12:35:40 AM
What are the colours on the radar for?


Yellow: Neutral. Red: Hostile. Green: Friendly.

Rectangle for ships. Triangle means ship with hardpoints deployed. Hollow icon means player commander, all filled in icons are NPCs.

QuackBot
November 24 2014, 01:00:17 AM
'Silent mode' includes dropping your external heat signature to zero, which means keeping all your generated heat internal instead of letting it safely dissipate into the void. All that lovely void-cooling your reactor was getting...its not getting it any more.

Its the worst possible thing you can do when overheating, bar going swimming in a star. You managed to combine the two :shock:
Aea: do the do.

Lana Torrin
November 24 2014, 05:09:44 AM
What are the colours on the radar for?


Yellow: Neutral. Red: Hostile. Green: Friendly.

Rectangle for ships. Triangle means ship with hardpoints deployed. Hollow icon means player commander, all filled in icons are NPCs.
That's what I was hoping it would be. I thought they weren't gong to show npc and player..

Tapaderpin

Dee Jiensai
November 24 2014, 07:06:14 AM
Right so basically that is why the heat levels were rising so violently :D I haz'd le dumb in a big way. So wat do to cool down except using heat sinks? I frantically tried to shut stuff down but the reactor can't really be turned off I think.



If you are being shot at when very close to the sun and the temp is rising fast beyond 150%, you are basically screwed.

If you are just trying to escape the sun, head away, and switch everything off, especially thrusters and shields, wait until your heat gets as low as it can get while being cooked by the sun.
Then quickly switch frame shift drive and thrusters back on and activte frameshift . then hope you get far enough away from the sun before your ship explodes from heat damage.

That happened to me once, and i found it to quite awesome, that you can get into this situation at all (and out of it again with some quick thinking/luck)

edit: also, heatsink launches are cheap, and very usefull. they micht become the elite equivalent of eve's Damage controll module. dont leave home without one.

Cosmin
November 24 2014, 07:16:09 AM
The fight itself took me up to 120 then I blew the offender and warped off. During supercruise I noticed ship was still heating up, so I dropped out of warp. Heat was around 140-150? Then I dun stoopid and went silent thinking it's a way of shutting down systems and such, turns out nope. Probably would've cooled off by shutting down thrusters, thx for pointing out the hottest subsystems there, luckily it was the default sidewinder so lesson learned :)


iDerp

Approaching Walrus
November 24 2014, 07:17:46 AM
Some guy went out to a black hole, then decided to take his trek further to the Orion nebula. A+ quality post, recommend you read if you are interested in exploration.

The Orion nebula is so dense with stars that it literally breaks the frameshift drive jump menu.

Spoilered for huge and since this actually may be spoilers for some.


Event horizon distorting space and light.
http://s14.directupload.net/images/141123/ra57yx7n.png

And the Orion nursery breaking the jump computer.
http://s14.directupload.net/images/141123/ih3y2soj.png
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/141123/8tchi7bf.png


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63639

Trindermon
November 24 2014, 07:58:38 AM
Staying away now untill launch given there is going to likely be 1 more wipe; looking forward to getting up and running in live tho - YARR.

Nicholai Pestot
November 24 2014, 10:16:29 AM
Urrg. My desire to pirate is competing with my desire to explore.

dzajic
November 24 2014, 10:34:49 AM
Heh, they should update black holes visuals with "new look" from Interstellar.

Torashuu
November 24 2014, 01:25:38 PM
Would be awesome to look at, but :physicsnerds:

Cosmin
November 24 2014, 05:17:59 PM
Heh, they should update black holes visuals with "new look" from Interstellar.

I think it already looks p. accurate come to think of it (as in very close to Interstellar). It doesn't have that black centre save for one angle, but then again the camera showing the black hole in Interstellar isn't really moving.

What I'm curious (and too lazy to post on Elite forums about) is. There were 0.13LS to the event horizon. That means, at full speed, around 3* RL days in a Sidewinder? Surely it can be done faster with a faster ship with some sublight upgrades? Thoughts?

*because the game shows me I can to around 0.35LS in 8 days in the default sidewinder when heading towards a locked anomaly at max sublight speed.

Mona
November 24 2014, 07:07:32 PM
Event horizon is where light can't escape, but ships in ED can move faster...

Isyel
November 24 2014, 07:12:12 PM
And even then i think you're putting too much hope into something that's likely not implemented at all in any meaningful way really. Not sure what you expec to find in a place that's clearly not meant to be flown to (8 days? heh)

Approaching Walrus
November 24 2014, 07:16:59 PM
The game prevents you from getting too close to a black hole, forcing an emergency stop if you get too close.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7txixfOI0tE

Cosmin
November 24 2014, 07:32:44 PM
I saw that exact same clip, I meant it'd take around 3 days at sublight speed (so no supercruise, no warping) to reach the event horizon.

Isn't anybody even curious about this? :D

Also I doubt the servers would be online that long in a row, tbh, just as I was planning my trip herp derp server restart for gamma 1.0.1, meh.

@Mona - isn't the black hole supposed to actually draw your ship in? Truth be told we know nothing about what'd happen if somebody was to fly inside a black hole in reality simply because it hasn't been tried/done. Scientists can only go so far in assuming stuff (time travel, crushed to a pulp, blown to bits, blown to bits then crushed to a pulp or everything at the same time or something else).

Saul
November 24 2014, 07:35:59 PM
Given the way the galaxy is generated i.e. that there are rules governing star/planet/moon etc. formation that make the result very close to what we would see in RL), doesn't it imply there should be a really fuckoff great fat momma of a black hole at the centre of the galaxy?

DB has said a few times that there won't be anything there, but surely there kinda has to be in order for the whole simulated universe to have spin etc?

Also noticed the Magellanic clouds are in the galaxy map; not as background but actually in it (p. sure they're in it). Expansion maybe? I would shit one if I ever ended up there by accident.

Straight Hustlin
November 24 2014, 07:51:42 PM
Given the way the galaxy is generated i.e. that there are rules governing star/planet/moon etc. formation that make the result very close to what we would see in RL), doesn't it imply there should be a really fuckoff great fat momma of a black hole at the centre of the galaxy?

DB has said a few times that there won't be anything there, but surely there kinda has to be in order for the whole simulated universe to have spin etc?

Also noticed the Magellanic clouds are in the galaxy map; not as background but actually in it (p. sure they're in it). Expansion maybe? I would shit one if I ever ended up there by accident.

Looks like you too a wrong turn in Albequerquedebaran

Saul
November 24 2014, 08:19:25 PM
Gamma 1.01 borked it bad. Server's spacking out like a champion atm.

Cosmin
November 24 2014, 08:20:06 PM
Given the way the galaxy is generated i.e. that there are rules governing star/planet/moon etc. formation that make the result very close to what we would see in RL), doesn't it imply there should be a really fuckoff great fat momma of a black hole at the centre of the galaxy?

DB has said a few times that there won't be anything there, but surely there kinda has to be in order for the whole simulated universe to have spin etc?

Also noticed the Magellanic clouds are in the galaxy map; not as background but actually in it (p. sure they're in it). Expansion maybe? I would shit one if I ever ended up there by accident.

Go figure (http://store.steampowered.com/app/72200/).

Approaching Walrus
November 24 2014, 08:29:50 PM
I wonder if there are rogue stars between the milky way and the LMC that could be used as 'stepping stones' to refuel at.

However it is worth remembering that the distance between the Milky Way and the LMC is 163,000 light years, farther away than the opposite edge of the galaxy.

GiDiYi
November 24 2014, 08:50:01 PM
Stupid question time: According to the shipyard there's an Eagle sitting in LHS 1417, some 147 light years away from my current location.

Is that my ship? How did it get there? How do I get there? Why are we here?

I don't understand.

morpheps
November 24 2014, 09:06:46 PM
It is your free Early backer Eagle reward.

In other news, considering an Oculus Rift DK2. Any experiences? Particularly worried about text resolution in menues etc.

Saul
November 24 2014, 09:06:57 PM
Stupid question time: According to the shipyard there's an Eagle sitting in LHS 1417, some 147 light years away from my current location.

Is that my ship? How did it get there? How do I get there? Why are we here?

I don't understand.

That's your 'Freagle' (Free Eagle). All beta backers got a free Eagle ship with your basic start option, but a bug put it hundreds of light years away. They said they patched it server side, but afaik mine's still 160 or so ly away.

Patch is probably for new starts I expect, and while it's a good light fighter, it's not worth the trip to sell it.

When you buy a new ship, you get an option to 'swap to your new ship and store your current ship'. Your old ship then resides in that station. You can swap/sell your ships in the menu tab you found, but only if you're at the station concerned.

Torashuu
November 24 2014, 09:41:57 PM
I saw that exact same clip, I meant it'd take around 3 days at sublight speed (so no supercruise, no warping) to reach the event horizon.

Isn't anybody even curious about this? :D

Also I doubt the servers would be online that long in a row, tbh, just as I was planning my trip herp derp server restart for gamma 1.0.1, meh.

@Mona - isn't the black hole supposed to actually draw your ship in? Truth be told we know nothing about what'd happen if somebody was to fly inside a black hole in reality simply because it hasn't been tried/done. Scientists can only go so far in assuming stuff (time travel, crushed to a pulp, blown to bits, blown to bits then crushed to a pulp or everything at the same time or something else).

With the way gravity works, black holes and other bodies do not specifically 'suck in' objects nearby. Scientists tend to talk about in falling matter. Matter that enters the gravitational pull and doesn't have the energy to leave. The event horizon is the part where even light cannot escape. Its also the part where it gets funny. It get more silly however. As time is part of space-time, and the latter is being all kinds of funny around singularities, time would progress 'normally' according to the in falling observer. However, for the outside observer the in falling ship would fall ever slower to the even horizon but never actually reach it. Even sillier, as matter is gobbled up into the accretion ring it is accelerated and compressed, heating it up. In super massive black holes this so much so that the energy radiated by the inner part of the accretion disk is so high it pushes away stuff coming in after it. This puts a limit on how much mass it can gobble up.

Regardless, this is just stuff I remember from the top of my head and it would be way silly for Elite to model even part of it.

for further reading here is a nice summary:
http://stronggravity.eu/public-outreach/

NoirAvlaa
November 24 2014, 09:53:19 PM
Event horizon is where a scientist becomes part of a ship that makes wormholes with artificial black holes and murders the rest of the crew

FTFY

Moto G representing

Thoemse
November 24 2014, 10:31:21 PM
It is your free Early backer Eagle reward.

In other news, considering an Oculus Rift DK2. Any experiences? Particularly worried about text resolution in menues etc.

Not super sharp but readable.
Let me put it like this. If i could wrap around 5 4k displays around my chair i still would play with the dk2 instead!

Saul
November 24 2014, 11:53:15 PM
Servers seem ok now, actually very smooth. Still expecting a 1.02 pretty soon.

Waiting on at least the CV1 Rift here, but definitely getting one eventually.

Lana Torrin
November 24 2014, 11:55:34 PM
Found my freeagle. Thankyou for.

Tapaderpin

Netjerenbau
November 25 2014, 07:08:45 AM
So the question for me is which start to go for?
I threw enough money at the kickstarter to get either the Eagle, Trader Cobra or Pirate Cobra.
I figure either one of the Cobras, anyone know if I can change my mind and restart later?
Also, how much would my bounty be for the pirate start? Would I be able to pay it off?

Saul
November 25 2014, 07:25:58 AM
So the question for me is which start to go for?
I threw enough money at the kickstarter to get either the Eagle, Trader Cobra or Pirate Cobra.
I figure either one of the Cobras, anyone know if I can change my mind and restart later?
Also, how much would my bounty be for the pirate start? Would I be able to pay it off?

Yeah, just wipe your save if you want to restart and it'll give you the start options again. Would go Cobra trader personally, though don't get too attached in case there is a wipe on the 16th.

Netjerenbau
November 25 2014, 07:30:01 AM
So the question for me is which start to go for?
I threw enough money at the kickstarter to get either the Eagle, Trader Cobra or Pirate Cobra.
I figure either one of the Cobras, anyone know if I can change my mind and restart later?
Also, how much would my bounty be for the pirate start? Would I be able to pay it off?

Yeah, just wipe your save if you want to restart and it'll give you the start options again. Would go Cobra trader personally, though don't get too attached in case there is a wipe on the 16th.

Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning. Getting the funds for a decent trading ship was where I fell before. This should give me a lot of flexibility too.

morpheps
November 25 2014, 07:49:12 AM
It is your free Early backer Eagle reward.

In other news, considering an Oculus Rift DK2. Any experiences? Particularly worried about text resolution in menues etc.

Not super sharp but readable.
Let me put it like this. If i could wrap around 5 4k displays around my chair i still would play with the dk2 instead!

What about the Galaxy map? Doable without removing the OR?

Approaching Walrus
November 25 2014, 08:33:45 AM
Haven't heard from Dante in a minute. Hope he still plays this/posts.

Ben Derindar
November 25 2014, 08:39:12 AM
They may have removed Cox Ring from the game, but I just docked at Wang City...

Lana Torrin
November 25 2014, 09:36:18 AM
They may have removed Cox Ring from the game, but I just docked at Wang City...
Cox blocked?

Tapaderpin

Trindermon
November 25 2014, 09:42:01 AM
Wish this would hurry up and launch! might take a look despite my wish to not play until launch! :)


BTW the Spreadsheet in the sticky (for usernames / friends list goodness) only has 2 people on it besides me; update your in-game names for some FHC goodness in space. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SavPbMvBsptOMeRFGuNlJg5gH34GEdXWAWcr2yA5QQI/edit#gid=0)

jadefalcon
November 25 2014, 11:54:39 AM
Dropped mine in. Derping around, trying to find a way to sell off the FSD on my stupid sidewinder that won't include in the cost - bloody 20k FSD man...

Trindermon
November 25 2014, 01:55:19 PM
Dropped mine in. Derping around, trying to find a way to sell off the FSD on my stupid sidewinder that won't include in the cost - bloody 20k FSD man...

wonder who fucked up the column names ...... now elite is called someones username...
OK whoever edited it @ 12:09, fucked the headers up - well and truely - i've rolled it back - whoever is called "Helgur" is a demic....

actually naming and shaming could me wrong, possible its a copy paste type issue. eitherway - rolled back and fixed.

helgur
November 25 2014, 02:56:36 PM
Dropped mine in. Derping around, trying to find a way to sell off the FSD on my stupid sidewinder that won't include in the cost - bloody 20k FSD man...

wonder who fucked up the column names ...... now elite is called someones username...
OK whoever edited it @ 12:09, fucked the headers up - well and truely - i've rolled it back - whoever is called "Helgur" is a demic....

actually naming and shaming could me wrong, possible its a copy paste type issue. eitherway - rolled back and fixed.

http://i.imgur.com/SJ8grBD.gif

Darkening
November 25 2014, 03:07:29 PM
Thought i had done it for a minute.

Nicholai Pestot
November 25 2014, 03:45:10 PM
Shamelessly stolen from someone who shamelessly stole it from reddit

http://i.imgur.com/ang1e0I.jpg

Frug
November 25 2014, 06:02:04 PM
Regardless, this is just stuff I remember from the top of my head and it would be way silly for Elite to model even part of it.

You mean it would be impossible for Elite to model the only difficult to model or interesting part: the time dilation.

Saul
November 25 2014, 06:08:38 PM
Wish this would hurry up and launch! might take a look despite my wish to not play until launch! :)


BTW the Spreadsheet in the sticky (for usernames / friends list goodness) only has 2 people on it besides me; update your in-game names for some FHC goodness in space. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SavPbMvBsptOMeRFGuNlJg5gH34GEdXWAWcr2yA5QQI/edit#gid=0)

Dooo eeeeet.

morpheps
November 25 2014, 06:12:16 PM
Shamelessly stolen from someone who shamelessly stole it from reddit

http://i.imgur.com/ang1e0I.jpg

Since we're in the business of stealing, here is the Excel (https://db.tt/yBl2oEwg)

Also; from the same reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2ncfa2/elite_dangerous_traders_bible/); and even bigger version (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zam5ytNdBn0JR2D-_OXDoIHh7pHMnxKkFcU1GTO9vSM/edit#gid=0)

Saul
November 25 2014, 06:46:49 PM
Shamelessly stolen from someone who shamelessly stole it from reddit

http://i.imgur.com/ang1e0I.jpg

Since we're in the business of stealing, here is the Excel (https://db.tt/yBl2oEwg)

Also; from the same reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2ncfa2/elite_dangerous_traders_bible/); and even bigger version (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zam5ytNdBn0JR2D-_OXDoIHh7pHMnxKkFcU1GTO9vSM/edit#gid=0)

IDGI

Torashuu
November 25 2014, 06:52:06 PM
Regardless, this is just stuff I remember from the top of my head and it would be way silly for Elite to model even part of it.

You mean it would be impossible for Elite to model the only difficult to model or interesting part: the time dilation.

Your statement is vastly underselling the limited understanding we have of the phenomenon.

morpheps
November 25 2014, 07:06:08 PM
Shamelessly stolen from someone who shamelessly stole it from reddit

http://i.imgur.com/ang1e0I.jpg

Since we're in the business of stealing, here is the Excel (https://db.tt/yBl2oEwg)

Also; from the same reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2ncfa2/elite_dangerous_traders_bible/); and even bigger version (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zam5ytNdBn0JR2D-_OXDoIHh7pHMnxKkFcU1GTO9vSM/edit#gid=0)

IDGI

1. You get a fetch mission. You look at the table, find an economy that exports the product you want. You filter the galaxy map for that kind of economy. You go there.
2. .....
3. PROFIT!
4. You get tired of fetch missions. You look at the table, find something that is being exported, you find an economy that wants to import the product you're buying. You filter the galaxy map for the importing economy. You go there.
5. ......
6. PROFIT!

It's basically a spreadsheet that makes being a trader or running fetch missions a bit easier. Since there are "a few" systems, listing the ones that produce your wanted product isn't all that practical, thus, type of economy, filter galaxy map etc. Clearer?

Edit: or in case you were referring to the second, somewhat more complicated Excel - see this thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47145) for an explanation

Thoemse
November 25 2014, 09:52:10 PM
It is your free Early backer Eagle reward.

In other news, considering an Oculus Rift DK2. Any experiences? Particularly worried about text resolution in menues etc.

Not super sharp but readable.
Let me put it like this. If i could wrap around 5 4k displays around my chair i still would play with the dk2 instead!

What about the Galaxy map? Doable without removing the OR?

Not perfect but doable yes. I never take off my rift.

jadefalcon
November 26 2014, 07:50:48 AM
Shamelessly stolen from someone who shamelessly stole it from reddit

http://i.imgur.com/ang1e0I.jpg

Since we're in the business of stealing, here is the Excel (https://db.tt/yBl2oEwg)

Also; from the same reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2ncfa2/elite_dangerous_traders_bible/); and even bigger version (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zam5ytNdBn0JR2D-_OXDoIHh7pHMnxKkFcU1GTO9vSM/edit#gid=0)

IDGI

1. You get a fetch mission. You look at the table, find an economy that exports the product you want. You filter the galaxy map for that kind of economy. You go there.
2. .....
3. PROFIT!
4. You get tired of fetch missions. You look at the table, find something that is being exported, you find an economy that wants to import the product you're buying. You filter the galaxy map for the importing economy. You go there.
5. ......
6. PROFIT!

It's basically a spreadsheet that makes being a trader or running fetch missions a bit easier. Since there are "a few" systems, listing the ones that produce your wanted product isn't all that practical, thus, type of economy, filter galaxy map etc. Clearer?

Edit: or in case you were referring to the second, somewhat more complicated Excel - see this thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47145) for an explanation

Nice links, seems like I was not far off. The google docs is cool and seems to match what I am doing, in terms of the most profitable item. I've been getting more from silver than palladium/gold from a extraction <-> high tech, probably due to the fact that most systems have different buy/sell from galactic average but appears to be close enough. Been making about 33k ish per round trip for High tech (consumer tech) -> Agri (tea + animal meats), in a viper, carrying 22 tons. I could make more if i find a bloody place that sells and uprated FSD so I can jump from HT -> Agri -> Extract -> HT...right now both hauler/viper doesn't have the jump range to make the extraction side on a full load.

As to why I'm using the viper rather than hauler...I hate the bloody hauler and the look of it's cockpit. Its like a honda minivan with aircon vents on the dashboard, without a top window like the freewinder/viper. Spent a bit more on fuel, but it's faster to dock and easier to boost out of range when you do get interdicted - happened twice so far, thankfully not as often - no shields is scary when you fail to escape an interdiction.

Edit : made my own excel image, since I hated the colors on both versions linked - RED/GREEN (http://imgur.com/llfmqjH)

Lana Torrin
November 26 2014, 08:30:23 AM
So is the pre-release final wipe confirmed? I'm not going to 'spoil' space road trucking if i have to start again once I have my type 6..

morpheps
November 26 2014, 08:53:07 AM
So is the pre-release final wipe confirmed? I'm not going to 'spoil' space road trucking if i have to start again once I have my type 6..

First they said that there wouldn't be one, which made a lot of people happy. Then they said there might be one, which made a lot of people uncertain and unhappy. Now they're saying that since people are uncertain and unhappy, there will be a wipe, (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23758&page=210&p=1050240#post1050240) so people are no longer uncertain, just unhappy.

The problem is still of course, that there might NOT be a wipe (since they are "erring on the side of caution"). Which leaves it up to each commander to decide for him/herself what would be worse; a wipe on the 16th, meaning start all over again, or no wipe on the 16th and you haven't played, meaning you're now 3 weeks behind all us other smug bastards who've been playing anyhow, since it's still a jolly good game. There should be a new newsletter soonish, hopefully that will shed some light.

Tailn
November 26 2014, 09:05:56 AM
So is the pre-release final wipe confirmed? I'm not going to 'spoil' space road trucking if i have to start again once I have my type 6..

First they said that there wouldn't be one, which made a lot of people happy. Then they said there might be one, which made a lot of people uncertain and unhappy. Now they're saying that since people are uncertain and unhappy, there will be a wipe, (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23758&page=210&p=1050240#post1050240) so people are no longer uncertain, just unhappy.

The problem is still of course, that there might NOT be a wipe (since they are "erring on the side of caution"). Which leaves it up to each commander to decide for him/herself what would be worse; a wipe on the 16th, meaning start all over again, or no wipe on the 16th and you haven't played, meaning you're now 3 weeks behind all us other smug bastards who've been playing anyhow, since it's still a jolly good game. There should be a new newsletter soonish, hopefully that will shed some light.

Thanks I can wait then its not a race any where, no idea why any one would be unhappy. Ohh wait entitled nerds.
Out of interest are people moving out from the starting areas much to find quiet locations or is every one hanging around populated areas?

Nicholai Pestot
November 26 2014, 09:17:09 AM
So is the pre-release final wipe confirmed? I'm not going to 'spoil' space road trucking if i have to start again once I have my type 6..

First they said that there wouldn't be one, which made a lot of people happy. Then they said there might be one, which made a lot of people uncertain and unhappy. Now they're saying that since people are uncertain and unhappy, there will be a wipe, (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23758&page=210&p=1050240#post1050240) so people are no longer uncertain, just unhappy.

The problem is still of course, that there might NOT be a wipe (since they are "erring on the side of caution"). Which leaves it up to each commander to decide for him/herself what would be worse; a wipe on the 16th, meaning start all over again, or no wipe on the 16th and you haven't played, meaning you're now 3 weeks behind all us other smug bastards who've been playing anyhow, since it's still a jolly good game. There should be a new newsletter soonish, hopefully that will shed some light.

Thanks I can wait then its not a race any where, no idea why any one would be unhappy. Ohh wait entitled nerds.
Out of interest are people moving out from the starting areas much to find quiet locations or is every one hanging around populated areas?

I've been derping around in populated space trying to find as much of the new content as I can. Is fun.

helgur
November 26 2014, 10:03:48 AM
Regardless, this is just stuff I remember from the top of my head and it would be way silly for Elite to model even part of it.

You mean it would be impossible for Elite to model the only difficult to model or interesting part: the time dilation.

Your statement is vastly underselling the limited understanding we have of the phenomenon.

We have a very practical understanding of time dilation. Take GPS for instance, since time moves differently on the earth than in orbit, the GPS systems have to take that into consideration and "retract" time by about 38 microseconds a day in order to keep the clocks in sync.

But I don't see the point of simulating this effect in the game. Since the player in most occasions moves faster than the speed of light when he is traveling from point A to B it would fuck everything up and he would have arrived at point B before he even set off from point A. Good luck meeting market demands with your wares on that premise.

morpheps
November 26 2014, 10:13:20 AM
So is the pre-release final wipe confirmed? I'm not going to 'spoil' space road trucking if i have to start again once I have my type 6..

First they said that there wouldn't be one, which made a lot of people happy. Then they said there might be one, which made a lot of people uncertain and unhappy. Now they're saying that since people are uncertain and unhappy, there will be a wipe, (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23758&page=210&p=1050240#post1050240) so people are no longer uncertain, just unhappy.

The problem is still of course, that there might NOT be a wipe (since they are "erring on the side of caution"). Which leaves it up to each commander to decide for him/herself what would be worse; a wipe on the 16th, meaning start all over again, or no wipe on the 16th and you haven't played, meaning you're now 3 weeks behind all us other smug bastards who've been playing anyhow, since it's still a jolly good game. There should be a new newsletter soonish, hopefully that will shed some light.

Thanks I can wait then its not a race any where, no idea why any one would be unhappy. Ohh wait entitled nerds.
Out of interest are people moving out from the starting areas much to find quiet locations or is every one hanging around populated areas?

Entitlement nerds indeed. There's an awful lot of sperging on the official forums; people basically saying that "boo hoo I pre-oredered beta because I'd get a head-start" and asking for refunds.

Tailn
November 26 2014, 10:30:15 AM
So is the pre-release final wipe confirmed? I'm not going to 'spoil' space road trucking if i have to start again once I have my type 6..

First they said that there wouldn't be one, which made a lot of people happy. Then they said there might be one, which made a lot of people uncertain and unhappy. Now they're saying that since people are uncertain and unhappy, there will be a wipe, (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23758&page=210&p=1050240#post1050240) so people are no longer uncertain, just unhappy.

The problem is still of course, that there might NOT be a wipe (since they are "erring on the side of caution"). Which leaves it up to each commander to decide for him/herself what would be worse; a wipe on the 16th, meaning start all over again, or no wipe on the 16th and you haven't played, meaning you're now 3 weeks behind all us other smug bastards who've been playing anyhow, since it's still a jolly good game. There should be a new newsletter soonish, hopefully that will shed some light.

Thanks I can wait then its not a race any where, no idea why any one would be unhappy. Ohh wait entitled nerds.
Out of interest are people moving out from the starting areas much to find quiet locations or is every one hanging around populated areas?

Entitlement nerds indeed. There's an awful lot of sperging on the official forums; people basically saying that "boo hoo I pre-oredered beta because I'd get a head-start" and asking for refunds.

Like most gamers who work in IT i have always thought about getting a job with a game developer, but the more I watch the communities directly associated the less i thing this would be a good idea. Enterprise users and customers are bad enough.

morpheps
November 26 2014, 10:43:25 AM
Heavens yes. I don't really get all the sperging; mostly it will not result in anything, and most of the threats are empty in any case. Dealing with all that drama though; gugh. Just moderating a MMO-forum was bad enough; I can't really say it's tempting to be actually responsible for all the raging and dealing with the attacks on your work.

Dee Jiensai
November 26 2014, 11:35:48 AM
In frontiers (or any other MMO company) place, i would gladly refund those idiots, and be glad to earn more money in the log term due to a much happier community. Because all the idiots are already gone before the game launches.

edit:

Or even better: Refund them the diffrence between beta acess and full game. then DON'T wipe at end of gamma, and do a :smugface:

morpheps
November 26 2014, 11:48:48 AM
Long term money for Frontier is DLC though, and I'm guessing that many of the morons who are now complaining also grabbed the lifelong expansion pass, but yeah. I'd refund them and wish them well in another game, and then don't wipe.

From what I understand, the wipe isn't really guaranteed, they will wipe if they see it as a necessity. The "there will be a wipe" was to provide an answer for all those muppets who were going on about how not knowing whether or not there would be a wipe was the worst thing since holocaust. Personally, I'm enjoying the game, and if it gets wiped, then well, I've had fun, and gotten up to speed on the new features released in Gamma.

Edit: Broke down and ordered Oculus Rift DK2. Joining an autistic gamer forum provides a lot of fun, but damn, it's expensive. First HOTAS, and now DK2. Good thing I'm not into SC..

Mona
November 26 2014, 12:01:05 PM
Good thing I'm not into SC..

SC will have its own HOTAS...

morpheps
November 26 2014, 12:08:14 PM
Of course it will. Gold plated I am sure :)

Tailn
November 26 2014, 12:13:47 PM
While I can understand wanting a DK2 (ie now not when ever the CR appears) it does seem a some what short life purchase, though if you have a use for a second but not so great one (spare PC for guests etc.) it may have a longer life.

Expect SC HOTAS to be even more blingy than the X55 but with even worse build quality.

Dee Jiensai
November 26 2014, 12:19:33 PM
While I can understand wanting a DK2 (ie now not when ever the CR appears) it does seem a some what short life purchase, though if you have a use for a second but not so great one (spare PC for guests etc.) it may have a longer life.

Expect SC HOTAS to be even more blingy than the X55 but with even worse build quality.

I expect it to be a x55 with a SC skin. If they dont partner with some joystick company and try to do their own, that would be stupid. And if they partner with someone, i bet it will be saitek.

edit:

About the X55 build quality, its realy not that bad, unless you got one that was broken on arrival, but when you have a working one, its ok. It doesnt feel like it should for the amount of money spent, but it solid enough.

morpheps
November 26 2014, 12:25:45 PM
Short and short - it depends I guess. For now, no official release date has been set for OR CV; and unofficial dates range from april 2014 to closed PR offerings in Q2 2015 with general release 3-6 months later. if worst case is that CV is a year away, I'll be happy to pay $350 and then buy CV when it's released. If CV is released in March, I'll beat myself abit about it, but I'm guessing that it's not likely to be released before Q2-Q3 2015.

Nicholai Pestot
November 26 2014, 12:29:07 PM
Like most gamers who work in IT i have always thought about getting a job with a game developer, but the more I watch the communities directly associated the less i thing this would be a good idea. Enterprise users and customers are bad enough.

Yep. I would really hate to be beholden to the man-children that make up the most vocal component of an MMO community.

By comparison financiers the world over are practically pleasant, even when my software is busy shitting itself and wiping its ass with their money.

Tailn
November 26 2014, 12:34:55 PM
Like most gamers who work in IT i have always thought about getting a job with a game developer, but the more I watch the communities directly associated the less i thing this would be a good idea. Enterprise users and customers are bad enough.

Yep. I would really hate to be beholden to the man-children that make up the most vocal component of an MMO community.

By comparison financiers the world over are practically pleasant, even when my software is busy shitting itself and wiping its ass with their money.

More a case of your customers have so much money that a little interruption just gives them time to take their current haul to the bank ;)

Re: Oculus:CV release date heard a rumour the other day of Dec 2105.

Nicholai Pestot
November 26 2014, 12:37:52 PM
Re: Oculus:CV release date heard a rumour the other day of Dec 2105.

Seems legit

morpheps
November 26 2014, 01:05:47 PM
Re: Oculus:CV release date heard a rumour the other day of Dec 2105.

In which case me buying DK2 now doesn't seem to short lived after all :P

Tailn
November 26 2014, 01:41:12 PM
Re: Oculus:CV release date heard a rumour the other day of Dec 2105.

In which case me buying DK2 now doesn't seem to short lived after all :P

I suppose, I tend to like my hardware to have a life longer than a year but..
Also I am desperately hoping that we will all be surprised sometime in Q1.

morpheps
November 26 2014, 01:43:42 PM
Re: Oculus:CV release date heard a rumour the other day of Dec 2105.

In which case me buying DK2 now doesn't seem to short lived after all :P

I suppose, I tend to like my hardware to have a life longer than a year but..
Also I am desperately hoping that we will all be surprised sometime in Q1.

Well, that was mainly making fun of your typo - but consider the cost of a cell phone and how often most people (?) are buying new models. I think a year is fairly ok, but YMMV.

Tailn
November 26 2014, 01:59:45 PM
Re: Oculus:CV release date heard a rumour the other day of Dec 2105.

In which case me buying DK2 now doesn't seem to short lived after all :P

I suppose, I tend to like my hardware to have a life longer than a year but..
Also I am desperately hoping that we will all be surprised sometime in Q1.

Well, that was mainly making fun of your typo - but consider the cost of a cell phone and how often most people (?) are buying new models. I think a year is fairly ok, but YMMV.

Don't worry I am just jealous, perhaps if I had not bought my Note 3 I may be able to consider buying the DK2 ;)

Torashuu
November 26 2014, 02:35:50 PM
Regardless, this is just stuff I remember from the top of my head and it would be way silly for Elite to model even part of it.

You mean it would be impossible for Elite to model the only difficult to model or interesting part: the time dilation.

Your statement is vastly underselling the limited understanding we have of the phenomenon.

We have a very practical understanding of time dilation. Take GPS for instance, since time moves differently on the earth than in orbit, the GPS systems have to take that into consideration and "retract" time by about 38 microseconds a day in order to keep the clocks in sync.

But I don't see the point of simulating this effect in the game. Since the player in most occasions moves faster than the speed of light when he is traveling from point A to B it would fuck everything up and he would have arrived at point B before he even set off from point A. Good luck meeting market demands with your wares on that premise.
Yes except that closer to the singularity propagation of events stops scaling with t and starts scaling r. Not to mention FTL drives implies reversible access beyond the event horizon of which we have no observations to know if our current physics models still apply. Simplifying it to the point where "its like GPS satelites" is a disservice to the people working on quantum gravity, m-theory and similar models precisely because our current understanding breaks down int the edge case of a black hole.

Darkening
November 26 2014, 03:56:42 PM
Servers down for the update, should have the tutorial missions up in the next 30mins.

Saul
November 26 2014, 08:09:48 PM
Newsletter 51:

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=3e8912d873&e=aaa7b64735

Also 6 free Cobra skins in the Store, but only free until Monday. Might want to leave it a day as the store is teetering on the verge of collapse, if the page load times are anything to go by.