Shin_getter
April 25 2011, 10:37:22 PM
Abstract: Humans should do the defense, not raw shields and multiple reinforcement timers. The question is how to get both sides into the fight when the numbers are lopsided.
One of the oldest design problem in the Eve sovereignty system is how to deal with the time zone issue, where sovereignty and structures don't just trade hands endless as people log in.
The current design of shields and timers does its job. However it kills smaller scale combat as everything must have oh so much hit points for the system to work.
I think it is time to, at least partly, to abandon the concept of the one time zone alliance. That said, alliances will nonetheless have different time zone membership and everything should not just trade hands really fast. I think the solution is, well, trenches:
I. The abstract form of the idea
What is a trench: A trench is something that multiplies the combat capabilities of each defender, but nonetheless scale in effectiveness with manpower, which is different from different from "shields" which do not scale in defensively effectiveness with man power. It is also something whose effect can be neutralized with prolonged bombardment. Its main purpose is to stall an attacks until a larger defending and counter attack force can be organized.
What the implementation of this means:
For the defender:
1. Against large scale attacks outside of time zone, the defending players will have to use trenches to fight a holding action until a larger fleet can be logged in to engage directly.
2. Against small scale attacks, the defending players must respond at least at a minimum level to protect vulnerable assets. If the attackers are persistent, a counter attack to destroy the attacking force may be a favorable response over prolonged siege defense.
For the attacker:
1. Large attacks outside of defender time zone would be about breaking the few defenders before the defender's time zone kick in and they log in a counter fleet.
2. Large attack inside defender's time zone would be operating in "siege range" that inflicts damage without directly assault on entrenched positions.
3. Small attacks can succeed if opponents simply fail to defend in even small numbers. Properly scattered attack can work for this very same reason, as defenders may not be positioned correctly to stop some of them.
--------------------
II. How to implement "trenches"
Trenches in space is a hard thing to implement. What we need is:
1. The defender needs to be able to cover the relevant assets before the attacker, and get a significant advantage
2. Defenders have secure internal logistics: no getting ganked while moving to defense, otherwise infiltrating defense lines using numerous ways (cyno, covert cyno, spy, etc) would render the design moot
It is not entirely obvious how this can be done without convoluted or otherwise strange mechanics, whose discovery isn't about
II. some possible implementations:
II. 1 Structure based:
Basically, let players fly their ships to a structure and get buffed, or some variant of the type. This doesn't really work well since it is too easy to kill the defender before they could get into position. There is too many gaps unless one gives a free cyno-beacon on structures everywhere, which probably unbalances logistics even more then it is now. (though one could make it exceedingly expensive to cyno that way to slightly lower its effect on logistics)
II. 2 Starsystem based:
If, given a certain level of sovereignty, it becomes possible to "lock" stargates and cynojam systems at the same time, it can serve as defense. The attacker would have to hack the gate to get into the system, and each ship is calculated on a individual basis. So sending one ship would need 1 successful hacking attempts, and sending 100 would need 100 successful attempts, and a successful hack jumps the ship immediately. There is also a stacking penalty so that if a lot of people hack the gate at the same time the chances of success drops. What this does is send ships into system in a trickle where outnumbered defenders could fight.
To prevent completely invulnerable hyper turtle systems, the locked gates can only be done for a number of hours at a stretch, and one could anchor modules in nearby connected systems that prevents the locking of gates after a while.
II. 3 Ship based system:
One option is to make a powerful ship type where only the defender have access to and give it abilities to stall a long time.
One way to do this is to repurposes super carriers for the role. Make the ship only capable of jumping to cyno generator arrays (which is now anchored at pos, and ignores cyno jamming). Heavily nerf bomber and fighter dps and instead the ship would get tank, rep and ewar buffs and make it into a support ship from hell. Any attacking fleet now can now looking at tangling with defending super carriers, with their now bad dps, night-unbreakable tank, remote ecm burst, and 20 thousand drones in the bay while trying to accomplish their objectives.
One of the oldest design problem in the Eve sovereignty system is how to deal with the time zone issue, where sovereignty and structures don't just trade hands endless as people log in.
The current design of shields and timers does its job. However it kills smaller scale combat as everything must have oh so much hit points for the system to work.
I think it is time to, at least partly, to abandon the concept of the one time zone alliance. That said, alliances will nonetheless have different time zone membership and everything should not just trade hands really fast. I think the solution is, well, trenches:
I. The abstract form of the idea
What is a trench: A trench is something that multiplies the combat capabilities of each defender, but nonetheless scale in effectiveness with manpower, which is different from different from "shields" which do not scale in defensively effectiveness with man power. It is also something whose effect can be neutralized with prolonged bombardment. Its main purpose is to stall an attacks until a larger defending and counter attack force can be organized.
What the implementation of this means:
For the defender:
1. Against large scale attacks outside of time zone, the defending players will have to use trenches to fight a holding action until a larger fleet can be logged in to engage directly.
2. Against small scale attacks, the defending players must respond at least at a minimum level to protect vulnerable assets. If the attackers are persistent, a counter attack to destroy the attacking force may be a favorable response over prolonged siege defense.
For the attacker:
1. Large attacks outside of defender time zone would be about breaking the few defenders before the defender's time zone kick in and they log in a counter fleet.
2. Large attack inside defender's time zone would be operating in "siege range" that inflicts damage without directly assault on entrenched positions.
3. Small attacks can succeed if opponents simply fail to defend in even small numbers. Properly scattered attack can work for this very same reason, as defenders may not be positioned correctly to stop some of them.
--------------------
II. How to implement "trenches"
Trenches in space is a hard thing to implement. What we need is:
1. The defender needs to be able to cover the relevant assets before the attacker, and get a significant advantage
2. Defenders have secure internal logistics: no getting ganked while moving to defense, otherwise infiltrating defense lines using numerous ways (cyno, covert cyno, spy, etc) would render the design moot
It is not entirely obvious how this can be done without convoluted or otherwise strange mechanics, whose discovery isn't about
II. some possible implementations:
II. 1 Structure based:
Basically, let players fly their ships to a structure and get buffed, or some variant of the type. This doesn't really work well since it is too easy to kill the defender before they could get into position. There is too many gaps unless one gives a free cyno-beacon on structures everywhere, which probably unbalances logistics even more then it is now. (though one could make it exceedingly expensive to cyno that way to slightly lower its effect on logistics)
II. 2 Starsystem based:
If, given a certain level of sovereignty, it becomes possible to "lock" stargates and cynojam systems at the same time, it can serve as defense. The attacker would have to hack the gate to get into the system, and each ship is calculated on a individual basis. So sending one ship would need 1 successful hacking attempts, and sending 100 would need 100 successful attempts, and a successful hack jumps the ship immediately. There is also a stacking penalty so that if a lot of people hack the gate at the same time the chances of success drops. What this does is send ships into system in a trickle where outnumbered defenders could fight.
To prevent completely invulnerable hyper turtle systems, the locked gates can only be done for a number of hours at a stretch, and one could anchor modules in nearby connected systems that prevents the locking of gates after a while.
II. 3 Ship based system:
One option is to make a powerful ship type where only the defender have access to and give it abilities to stall a long time.
One way to do this is to repurposes super carriers for the role. Make the ship only capable of jumping to cyno generator arrays (which is now anchored at pos, and ignores cyno jamming). Heavily nerf bomber and fighter dps and instead the ship would get tank, rep and ewar buffs and make it into a support ship from hell. Any attacking fleet now can now looking at tangling with defending super carriers, with their now bad dps, night-unbreakable tank, remote ecm burst, and 20 thousand drones in the bay while trying to accomplish their objectives.