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Daco
August 30 2012, 10:10:04 PM
Alright so this is something that has come up here in New Zealand just recently.

The government decided that they would look into increasing the legal age to buy alcohol from 18 to 20 but ended up folding and keeping it at 18. They were looking at it to try and combat New Zealands heavy drinking culture, they also released some stats though that say out of 700,000 people that bought alcohol only 10% were under 20.

So I know these are just statistic on people buying alcohol but if that is true and under 20 aren't drinking as heavily as it is made out to be then what difference would an increase in drinking age do?

And for general discussion what are the different legal ages for buying alcohol around the world for FHCers and their thoughts on the whole too young to drink or this is a good age to set it at problem.

And what do you think is a good starting age for drinking?

NoirAvlaa
August 30 2012, 10:23:38 PM
Teaching sensible drinking is more important than hard limits IMO. My parents didn't demonise alcohol when I was younger and just made me understand to not drink excessive amounts... as such I now drink enough to have fun without throwing up and falling over, and people can still understand what I'm saying.

Once every now and then I have a 'binge' night but it's few and far between.

Varcaus
August 30 2012, 10:23:40 PM
Atleast around here legal drinking age is a joke that proves no hassle to anyone. America

GiDiYi
August 30 2012, 10:29:34 PM
Germany here:

Legal age for "light" liquor (basically beer and wine) is 16. Hard liquor can be purchased after you turn 18.

Let's be honest: My first time blackout was somewhere around the age of 13 (some white stuff with cherry juice, as I said, I had a blackout).

You can't control it.

It is something that can't be contained, so you have to rely on the ability of the families to teach their children a responsible use with it. This is a very far fetch and I am aware of it.

If you'd ask me about my personal experience and when I really was ready to get in contact with alcohol I'd probably answer never. I really enjoy a beer or a glass of wine after work with some friends here and there and I would't consider this a bad thing. Yet it still happens, that I lose it on a weekend somewhere sometimes that makes me go over the top to a degree, that is detrimental to my health without a doubt.

tl;dr: There's no hard barrier. I think alcohol is fun and bad things happen to you if you exagerate it, but it's your life, so go ahead. I wouldn't limit it at all after, let's say, the age of 16, but this relies on the families. And this is the point where things go wrong, as always.

Mr Marram
August 30 2012, 10:34:30 PM
Teaching sensible drinking is more important than hard limits IMO. My parents didn't demonise alcohol when I was younger and just made me understand to not drink excessive amounts... as such I now drink enough to have fun without throwing up and falling over, and people can still understand what I'm saying.

Once every now and then I have a 'binge' night but it's few and far between.
Im pretty much in this boat too, never demonised by my mum. I had a pint in pubs with a meal when I was around 14-15. Got blackout drunk a few times, I can count them on one hand, mostly after I was 18.

ValorousBob
August 30 2012, 11:25:22 PM
Atleast around here legal drinking age is a joke that proves no hassle to anyone. America

This. If you already have a heavy drinking culture, raising the limit won't stop people for very long. In America the only limit on getting alcohol-regardless of age I might add-is your own creativity/ambition.

Lallante
August 31 2012, 09:58:26 AM
Strict parents / age restricted drinking = abuse alcohol on the few occasions you do get access.

Chill parents / drinking from an early age = respect for your limits

Zeekar
August 31 2012, 11:07:02 AM
Strict parents / age restricted drinking = abuse alcohol on the few occasions you do get access.

Chill parents / drinking from an early age = respect for your limits

Horseshit. I saw people with chill parents become verge on alcoholics and people with strict parents drinking only occasionally or never. And I saw that happen so many times that that I have to say there is no pattern there.

Lallante
August 31 2012, 01:33:39 PM
Strict parents / age restricted drinking = abuse alcohol on the few occasions you do get access.

Chill parents / drinking from an early age = respect for your limits

Horseshit. I saw people with chill parents become verge on alcoholics and people with strict parents drinking only occasionally or never. And I saw that happen so many times that that I have to say there is no pattern there.
Horseshit. I saw people with strict parents become verge on alcoholics and people with chill parents drinking only occasionally or never. And I saw that happen so many times that that I have to say there is a pattern there.

Zeekar
August 31 2012, 02:13:08 PM
Yes...

There is no pattern.

Dark Flare
August 31 2012, 02:36:28 PM
I only once drank to the point of throwing up. Well, I say I drank to that point, some weird goth chick was following me around and spiked my drink (no hard evidence of this other than the fact I had only had 6-7pints. 2months earlier for my 18th birthday I'd had 12, in the same space of time, on a similar amount of food).

I threw up for 12hours.

Oddly enough I've never drank enough to get sick since.


As for age, 18 is fine. Most of the time you'll get away with the odd drink in a bar at 16 when someone forgets to ID you. As said by many above, it's education that's more important than the age limit. And no matter what you do you're going to get idiots who just drink themselves to fuck every weekend.

Frug
August 31 2012, 07:49:34 PM
Strict parents / age restricted drinking = abuse alcohol on the few occasions you do get access.

Chill parents / drinking from an early age = respect for your limits

Horseshit. I saw people with chill parents become verge on alcoholics and people with strict parents drinking only occasionally or never. And I saw that happen so many times that that I have to say there is no pattern there.
Horseshit. I saw people with strict parents become verge on alcoholics and people with chill parents drinking only occasionally or never. And I saw that happen so many times that that I have to say there is a pattern there.
Hey Lall, you're proving his point and sounding retarded in the process. Business as usual. And I actually agreed with you on this at first.

IMO 18 is a fine age. Raising it any higher than that is unrealistic and probably will result in foolish experimentation and more harm than good. Like pretty much all drugs, you have one camp preaching unreasonable positions in an attempt to stamp out a problem, and another camp preaching about responsible use and/or harm reduction.

It's really weird to visit the states with my gf (where she is from). I do everything with her but she can't legally share a drink with me in that fucked up country. They have alcohol available in grocery stores, but sometimes in a booth with signs saying she can't go in there (but I can). what in the fuck. I can boff her, I can marry her, but they make us afraid to share a beer. FREEDOM.

Mike deVoid
August 31 2012, 09:31:34 PM
America's freedom is based upon the right to impose your Christian religious values upon others because this demonstrates how much a better Christian you are than others. Where religion has nothing to say anything goes. Welcome no sex but plenty violence in the mainstream.

ValorousBob
August 31 2012, 11:09:21 PM
It's really weird to visit the states with my gf (where she is from). I do everything with her but she can't legally share a drink with me in that fucked up country. They have alcohol available in grocery stores, but sometimes in a booth with signs saying she can't go in there (but I can). what in the fuck. I can boff her, I can marry her, but they make us afraid to share a beer. FREEDOM.

Almost all grocery stores, many convenience stores, drive through liquor-and-gun-store combinations, etc. Welcome to America.

Jason Marshall
September 2 2012, 04:51:01 PM
I had to wait till I was 21. They can change it in America after I die.

Rudolf Miller
September 4 2012, 12:11:03 PM
Fun fact alcohol is the real gateway drug (in America at least) (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/05/study-the-gateway-drug-is-alcohol-not-marijuana/)

May be relevant to the later than normal drinking age, but maybe not. I imagine it has more to do with alcohol being the centerpiece of socialization and teenagers not knowing the difference between socializing while drunk and socializing without it.

Devec
September 4 2012, 02:57:42 PM
The current drinking age limit over here is similar to Germany which is 16 for low percentage such as beer and wine, and 18 for spirits.

However troubles with the current limits tend to pop up in the news from time to time. Especially with the increase of kids who are dubbed Coma-binger. Which is, as the name spells out, a person who drinks so much alcohol until they are in a coma for a day or more, often suffering a not to be underestimated amount of brain damage. These events led to the sharper monitoring of underage looking people. Next to the wish to get rid of the lower drinking age in preference to a hard 18 years old limit.

I am not completely against these plans but it is a bit of a double edged sword. Primarily because the current drinking age limits are not stopping 14 year olds from binge drinking, and getting into coma's. Personally the first time I got hammered I was 15 years old and had acquired alcohol through older friends, even though my parents had taught me to drink responsibly. Mainly by letting me drink a beer every so often and not being shy about the details of being drunk. Yet still I had a craving to discover what it would be like to get drunk.

I think there would be a big benefit to teach people to drink responsibly and to teach them that alcohol is in fact a drug. Not to hide it behind a door which says 18 only, that just leads to curiosity. The question remains of how do you get teenagers to drink responsibly, because it is not uncommon for teenagers under 16 to drink. I imagine it would not only take just a shift in perception of alcohol by the kids but also by the adults. Mainly because alcohol leads to so many problems which are not bound by age, the mainly and most disgusting one being drunk while driving.

timally
September 4 2012, 03:59:24 PM
I definitely think the age should be lowered in pubs.

When I were a nipper we got served around the time we were 16. We were in pubs with the older guys and if we stepped out of line we got a kick up the arse..which quickly learns you to behave and to respect elders.

Now the pubs are stricter on age which has led to the youngsters going down the park. They tend to buy stronger alcohol from off sales and hide out the road to get drunk. Once drunk they hit the town and cause all sorts of trouble, usually fighting and vandalism.

Another reason is the expense. If you have 20 you can afford about 6 beers in a pub, but you can get a bottle of vodka, a bottle of cider and a bottle of buckfast out the off sales. 6 pints will get a youngster drunk enough, the carry out will obliterate them.

Even when they hit 18 now they stay out of pubs. I was back home a couple weeks back and for a full week I never saw anyone under 30 in the pub.

Joshua Foiritain
September 5 2012, 08:06:11 PM
The current drinking age limit over here is similar to Germany which is 16 for low percentage such as beer and wine, and 18 for spirits.

However troubles with the current limits tend to pop up in the news from time to time. Especially with the increase of kids who are dubbed Coma-binger. Which is, as the name spells out, a person who drinks so much alcohol until they are in a coma for a day or more, often suffering a not to be underestimated amount of brain damage. These events led to the sharper monitoring of underage looking people. Next to the wish to get rid of the lower drinking age in preference to a hard 18 years old limit.
Pretty much exactly how it went in the Netherlands though i haven't heard much about coma-binging in a while so i think its becoming less popular.

I grew up in the redneck area of my country and consuming dubious amounts of alcohol here is considered quite normal. I think people generally start drinking around the age of 15, it often depends on the age spread in your group of friends, once one is old enough to drink the rest tend to join. Parents around here tend to not care too much, as long as you keep your drinking to the weekends (while going out) and dont get arrested/hospitalized you are pretty free to do what you want.

As far as i can remember we've never had any major issues with alcohol near where i grew up.

As for the age limit; personally i like the idea of learning to drink first (at the age of 16) so you can spend a good amount of time falling off bikes and other non-motorized objects and learning to drive second. That way once you are allowed to drive you've got a decent understanding of how terrible your skills are while you're drunk and you should be less likely to drive drunk.

Apart from that raising the limit would be pointless, if people want alcohol they'll get it one way or the other, if anything making it more restricted just makes it more interesting because as a child, the things you're not allowed to do are always the most fun.

On a side note; a city in my country has moved the age at which children start getting classes on the dangers of alcohol down to the age of 9 because apparently its quite common for 11-12 year olds there to have tried alcohol at some point. They interviewed some of the children and im pretty sure they had no idea what was going on.

Armyofme
September 6 2012, 07:00:59 AM
Here in Norway its 18 years to buy beer and wine, and 20 to buy stonger stuff.

When it comes to whats a good age to start drinking, i think its impossible to tell. I started drinking when i was 14ish, and did actually drink quite a lot up until i reached 24, wich is when i met my current gf, and after that i kinda lost interest in drinking. (I still drink, but now only like once a month tops).

RazoR
September 6 2012, 07:39:43 AM
Teaching sensible drinking is more important than hard limits IMO. My parents didn't demonise alcohol when I was younger and just made me understand to not drink excessive amounts... as such I now drink enough to have fun without throwing up and falling over, and people can still understand what I'm saying.

Once every now and then I have a 'binge' night but it's few and far between.+9000


Since noone actually follows drinking/smoking ages anwyay.

Sacul
September 6 2012, 11:46:53 AM
The current drinking age limit over here is similar to Germany which is 16 for low percentage such as beer and wine, and 18 for spirits.

However troubles with the current limits tend to pop up in the news from time to time. Especially with the increase of kids who are dubbed Coma-binger. Which is, as the name spells out, a person who drinks so much alcohol until they are in a coma for a day or more, often suffering a not to be underestimated amount of brain damage. These events led to the sharper monitoring of underage looking people. Next to the wish to get rid of the lower drinking age in preference to a hard 18 years old limit.
Pretty much exactly how it went in the Netherlands though i haven't heard much about coma-binging in a while so i think its becoming less popular.

I grew up in the redneck area of my country and consuming dubious amounts of alcohol here is considered quite normal. I think people generally start drinking around the age of 15, it often depends on the age spread in your group of friends, once one is old enough to drink the rest tend to join. Parents around here tend to not care too much, as long as you keep your drinking to the weekends (while going out) and dont get arrested/hospitalized you are pretty free to do what you want.

As far as i can remember we've never had any major issues with alcohol near where i grew up.

As for the age limit; personally i like the idea of learning to drink first (at the age of 16) so you can spend a good amount of time falling off bikes and other non-motorized objects and learning to drive second. That way once you are allowed to drive you've got a decent understanding of how terrible your skills are while you're drunk and you should be less likely to drive drunk.

Apart from that raising the limit would be pointless, if people want alcohol they'll get it one way or the other, if anything making it more restricted just makes it more interesting because as a child, the things you're not allowed to do are always the most fun.

On a side note; a city in my country has moved the age at which children start getting classes on the dangers of alcohol down to the age of 9 because apparently its quite common for 11-12 year olds there to have tried alcohol at some point. They interviewed some of the children and im pretty sure they had no idea what was going on.

What you post is fairly accurate and i agree but my father lives in the province of Brabant and altho i havent seen him in years i clearly remember back around 2005 every damn fucking tree next to the road entrance to his redneck village had a little shrine for yet another kid who was drunk and folded his car around a tree killing one or more people.

I called it Darwinism but drunk driving for 18 y/o was a big problem there and then.

Sacul
September 6 2012, 11:50:40 AM
Strict parents / age restricted drinking = abuse alcohol on the few occasions you do get access.

Chill parents / drinking from an early age = respect for your limits

Coming from a (extended) family where chill parents are the norm most nephews and nieces ended up as alcoholics altho the well adjusted kind with jobs and families not hobo alcoholics. Way beyond the beverage intake norm that addiction clinics count as alcoholism.

Armyofme
September 6 2012, 11:51:40 AM
I called it Darwinism but drunk driving for 18 y/o was a big problem there and then.
Sadly drunken driving is a problem in most of the western world. And yeah, Darwinism is quite possibly the correct word to use here. (though that does not apply to those that quite often get cought in the middle)
Really not much that can be done with this problem though

Sacul
September 6 2012, 12:15:14 PM
I called it Darwinism but drunk driving for 18 y/o was a big problem there and then.
Sadly drunken driving is a problem in most of the western world. And yeah, Darwinism is quite possibly the correct word to use here. (though that does not apply to those that quite often get cought in the middle)
Really not much that can be done with this problem though

Well last year 1700 people got a breathalizer breaker in their car installed by court order after being caught drunk driving. The thing cost 1k euros ...nobody in their right mind will breathe in that machine when he is sober so that a drunken fool can drive off i hope.

Armyofme
September 6 2012, 12:21:50 PM
I called it Darwinism but drunk driving for 18 y/o was a big problem there and then.
Sadly drunken driving is a problem in most of the western world. And yeah, Darwinism is quite possibly the correct word to use here. (though that does not apply to those that quite often get cought in the middle)
Really not much that can be done with this problem though

Well last year 1700 people got a breathalizer breaker in their car installed by court order after being caught drunk driving. The thing cost 1k euros ...nobody in their right mind will breathe in that machine when he is sober so that a drunken fool can drive off i hope.
Well, until they make them mandatory in every car, the risk will still be around.

Hel OWeen
September 6 2012, 12:58:17 PM
Since noone actually follows drinking/smoking ages anwyay.

That's the general problem with all legislation that enforces age limits: you have to set a cap somewhere, disregarding any personal (dis-)abilities. Some should never be allowed to drive a car, while others would outperform the majority of drivers in the age of 14 (18 years' the limit in Germany).



Teaching sensible drinking is more important than hard limits IMO. My parents didn't demonise alcohol when I was younger and just made me understand to not drink excessive amounts...

That's a sensible thing to do. And I guess most parents get that part right, otherwise we all would be surrounded by drunkards.

Synapse
September 6 2012, 01:03:47 PM
That's a sensible thing to do. And I guess most parents get that part right, otherwise we all would be surrounded by drunkards.

It's only by adopting incredibly loose standards that one can claim we aren't all surrounded by drunkards. Drinking to inebriation is a more than once a week thing for a huge subset of the population. At least between 20 and 30, not being drunk weekly seems to be the exception.

As we all know, there is no other recreational drug that remotely approaches alchohol in terms of number and extent of usage. It migbt be considered an epidemic if we werent all so used to it...

Hel OWeen
September 6 2012, 01:06:08 PM
I called it Darwinism but drunk driving for 18 y/o was a big problem there and then.
Sadly drunken driving is a problem in most of the western world. And yeah, Darwinism is quite possibly the correct word to use here. (though that does not apply to those that quite often get cought in the middle)
Really not much that can be done with this problem though

Darwinism is absolutely not the correct word here, as it implies the (positive) notion that the drunken drivers remove themselves from the human gen pool. Unfortunately, in a lot of accidents the drunkards survive all the while innoncent people are killed.

Full disclosure, because obviously biased: my brother got killed in a car accident. The drunken driver survived. (That was ages ago, no need for condolences)

Diicc Tater
September 18 2012, 08:16:41 AM
Drinking age... well, as said by others it's more important to get some form of good introduction. At 13-17 it becomes more of a sport and a mark of badassery to break the law when it comes to drinking. If drinking comes of as the devil, kids will dance when they get the chance. If it seems cool, they want to be cool. Normalize the presence of alcohol, inform of the results of too much and talk about the reasons why one drinks. Worked for me and many of my friends.
If that's done well, the age restrictions might hold better but they are not the way to 'control', just more like guidelines.

aaah, memories.
I was a good kid. I never liked to be around drunk people when I was young, they were too loud and dumb.
Mum n dad had no problem with me having a glass of wine or having a taste of whiskey but the amount of 'son, I'm disappoint' I knew I would get if I came home drunk or worse, they having to come pick me up, was enough to keep me in line.
Had my first real drink at 13. A friend had bought some Vodka on a trip to Austria and we decided to try get drunk at home just to see what it was like. It was awesome. I think my first drunken stupor was WAY better than most. After that we had some idea of how much we could drink as well as what it felt like. We made sure to keep tabs on how many cc's we downed.
Until I was 21 I had never drank enough to pass out or even puke. I got and still get bad hangovers but so far I've only been so drunk that I've only puked during once and on the hangover twice. Never passed out/blackout.

Varcaus
September 19 2012, 12:39:36 AM
I called it Darwinism but drunk driving for 18 y/o was a big problem there and then.
Sadly drunken driving is a problem in most of the western world. And yeah, Darwinism is quite possibly the correct word to use here. (though that does not apply to those that quite often get cought in the middle)Really not much that can be done with this problem though

Darwinism is absolutely not the correct word here, as it implies the (positive) notion that the drunken drivers remove themselves from the human gen pool. Unfortunately, in a lot of accidents the drunkards survive all the while innoncent people are killed.

Full disclosure, because obviously biased: my brother got killed in a car accident. The drunken driver survived. (That was ages ago, no need for condolences)

Reading is hard.