What can I take on in a Rifter?

[Sudden]

Reposted from SHC v0v



After losing my first Taranis to various stupidity I decided to go with somthing cheaper to really learn how to PvP in small ships ( I know how to scan, scout and tackle, but as for provideing all the DPS...)

So I bought 60 Rifters + fittings.
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0709/ ... Mainia.jpg (http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0709/Rifter_Mainia.jpg)
(Thats 30 of them. The other 30 are up near Syndicate)

Anyway, I've lost the first 5 so far (and been podded each time...) to:
A ratting Enyo (got him into structure then he got to close)
A ratting Raven in Stain and his buddie in a PvP cruise raven (I had the ratter into structure. EM rats FTW)
A Manticore (lesson learned, cruise missiles can hit me fine)
An arty sabre
A Tempest and a huggin double team (I was being silly and they were occupied with a Raven)
http://kb.metaforge.co.uk/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=59807

Anyway, what I really need to know is what can I realisticly engage and have a chance of killing? What tactics should I use when engaging targets?


My totally t1 rifter has eaten every frigate and inteceptor going, along with a cruiser or two that though webs were 'optional'. Past that, I dont know...
Rifters as a part of a frigate gang however is different


you should be able to take out enyo's no prob if you can use barrage. Rifters eat ceptors and other frigs pretty easily also if set up right. Only thing to look out for is ac punishers really.


What would "set up right" consist of? Currently I'm running:
3x125mm AC II w/barrage + 1 x sml nos
MWD + Scram(7.5km) + web
SAR I + 200mm RT + DamCon I

I was looking at Kal'Kalagans setup after seeing his impressive scores on the killboard, which is prettymuch the same, except with a rocket launcher, 400mm RT and a MAPC replacng the Damage control.

Also, how do you fly them? I've been pulsing the MWD to get in range then orbiting at 4.5km and just guns +nos+scram+webbing the target. Is there a different/better way to go about this?



The 400mm and MPAC is a little bit better than the 200 and DC. Otherwise your setup is a solid standby. With the 400 setup I think it's either hard or impossible to fit a nos so you need to use a Rocket launcher.
iirc Kal'Kalagan relies on inties getting cocky and entering range so he can web them. Once he has that, pulsing the MWD and orbiting with the occasional manual flying tweak to keep low transversal should do the trick.

[Helen]

Who posted the first quote cos its quite lulz.

[Sudden]

Who posted the first quote cos its quite lulz.

Cheese999, an 06 with 322 posts. :nostradamus:

[Helen]

I can't imagine how bad your reaction time must be to get podded by two Ravens.

[cillisia]

as i have also said in the rifter thread

I love rifters :companioncube:

you can take bs's out with em if you have the time and inclination, avoid most things with neuts and lots of drones though, domi's arbi's, etc. I've been flying the wolf more recently though, that and the vigil :P

http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=k ... kll_id=844 (http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=844)

lol

[Omega Supreme]

as i have also said in the rifter thread

I love rifters :companioncube:

you can take bs's out with em if you have the time and inclination, avoid most things with neuts and lots of drones though, domi's arbi's, etc. I've been flying the wolf more recently though, that and the vigil :P

http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=k ... kll_id=844 (http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=844)

lol

Wait, what? Seriously?

[sassy b]

Vigil killmail looks very much like tackled in mission - 98% of the damage by rats. Also, the maelstrom fit looks like it would fail badly if it ran out of booster charges. Vigil would find it tough to deal with light drones, but maybe the guy didnt have lights/had t1 lights. You could probably outrun t2 lights with mwd and still outtrack a bs. Or possibly, and a bit less impressively, vigils remote rep appeared on grid soon after the mael aggressed.

Whatever, its a nice mail :)

i used to just attack p much anything else that was solo in a rifter, it was a pretty good strategy and i recommend it for learning a lot about various ships capabilities vs frigates

These days i'm a bit more cautious, and usually won't go for anything cruiser and up thats likely to have a neut, unless i think they're really bad.

You can definitely have a good chance vs even well flown AFs. Competent pilots in any of the faction/pirate frigates should really beat a rifter though. Dramiels will blow you up 99% of the time even if they're shitfit and absolutely terrible.

Basic guide to rifter v AFs:
Minny (fusion)
outtrack wolfs
outtrack jags hope they dont web you
Gallente (fusion)
ishkurs are nasty. best plan is probably to take down their drones while kiting blaster or outtracking rail.
kite enyos, or outtrack if they're rail
Caldari (EMP)
outtrack harpys
shoot hawks in the face and hope they melt really fast. keep velocity up while reducing transversal
Amarr (phased plasma)
vengeance - same as hawk. if its not webbing you then leave unless you can rep damage + have lots of patience/ammo
outtrack lolretributions

[joe space]

shoot hawks in the face and hope they melt really fast. keep velocity up while reducing transversal


how you do these things?

[sassy b]

hardmode manual pilot + kind of joust them (try not to pull u-turns and kill your speed tho)
easymode orbit in shallow falloff instead of in tight like you're trying to outtrack something. Still a balancing act to apply maximum damage to beat a hawks bufferless active tank. Maybe 2km out so setting orbit to 1.75kish, i dunno, i'm guesstimating here.

[Don Pellegrino]

In a frig with bad tracking and long range, by orbiting at the edge of your optimal, in a rifter, probably by bouncing back and forth at max speed and turning around between each volley so that the missiles will only ever hit you at high speed. By bouncing back and forth, you can easily keep transversal at 0, but that would be really hard to do, so you probably want to do what sassy said. I don't often fit AB's to my frigs, but I did that trick to a malediction once and it worked (I was in a crusader so it wasn't that hard to do because of the awesome agility).

[sassy b]

bouncing back and forth at max speed and turning around between each volley so that the missiles will only ever hit you at high speed
easilylol

[Don Pellegrino]

The easy part is to keep transversal down, the hard one is to time your bouncing.

[Resi]

as i have also said in the rifter thread

I love rifters :companioncube:

you can take bs's out with em if you have the time and inclination, avoid most things with neuts and lots of drones though, domi's arbi's, etc. I've been flying the wolf more recently though, that and the vigil :P

http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=k ... kll_id=844 (http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=844)

lol

This (http://www.spacecads.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2736) is probably my funniest kill in a Rifter, just goes to further show that they can fight anything.

Rifters are just the bestest, they're cheap, they can adapt to most situations and there's dozens of viable fits for them.

I always recommend them as the first ship to fly to anyone who wants to start solo PVPing.

[joe space]

This (http://www.spacecads.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2736)

cool killboard

[Shiodome]

adding to the 'if you get the right situation a rifter can do anything' - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_det ... id=9062679 (http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9062679) (not my kill)

[cillisia]

as i have also said in the rifter thread

I love rifters :companioncube:

you can take bs's out with em if you have the time and inclination, avoid most things with neuts and lots of drones though, domi's arbi's, etc. I've been flying the wolf more recently though, that and the vigil :P

http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=k ... kll_id=844 (http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=844)

lol

This (http://www.spacecads.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2736) is probably my funniest kill in a Rifter, just goes to further show that they can fight anything.

Rifters are just the bestest, they're cheap, they can adapt to most situations and there's dozens of viable fits for them.

I always recommend them as the first ship to fly to anyone who wants to start solo PVPing.


Lol thats awesome, the cynabal is cool too but i guess it had no chance of tracking a rifter with 425's on it and no TE's

[Resi]

as i have also said in the rifter thread

I love rifters :companioncube:

you can take bs's out with em if you have the time and inclination, avoid most things with neuts and lots of drones though, domi's arbi's, etc. I've been flying the wolf more recently though, that and the vigil :P

http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=k ... kll_id=844 (http://space-benderz.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=844)

lol

This (http://www.spacecads.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2736) is probably my funniest kill in a Rifter, just goes to further show that they can fight anything.

Rifters are just the bestest, they're cheap, they can adapt to most situations and there's dozens of viable fits for them.

I always recommend them as the first ship to fly to anyone who wants to start solo PVPing.


Lol thats awesome, the cynabal is cool too but i guess it had no chance of tracking a rifter with 425's on it and no TE's

A Stabber Fleet Issue has little chance of tracking an orbiting Rifter even with D180's, so you should fight them, too.

[Sudden]

Month old Hurricanes, apparently:

http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard/?a ... l_id=51013 (http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=51013)

[cillisia]

'it was like "boink your mother" or something'

lol

[Yankunytjatjara]

The rifter is the master of divide et impera...

http://www.rockyou.com/images/ryemote/meebo/smug.png (http://bluerep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9452335)

[Liare]

adding to the 'if you get the right situation a rifter can do anything' - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_det ... id=9062679 (http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9062679) (not my kill)that's like winning eve or something, that cynabal should have won regardless. O.o

though, Armor buffered ? i though pro's ran em as shield buffered fagabond style boats.

[z0de]

adding to the 'if you get the right situation a rifter can do anything' - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_det ... id=9062679 (http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9062679) (not my kill)that's like winning eve or something, that cynabal should have won regardless. O.o

though, Armor buffered ? i though pro's ran em as shield buffered fagabond style boats.
like this? (http://the-bastards.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15451)

[Tyrus Tenebros]

adding to the 'if you get the right situation a rifter can do anything' - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_det ... id=9062679 (not my kill)that's like winning eve or something, that cynabal should have won regardless. O.o

though, Armor buffered ? i though pro's ran em as shield buffered fagabond style boats.
Yeah that cynabal was really :derp: fit, but, ironically, in a way that should have helped him against a rifter.

[Wensley]

So the message here is "Its a 5 million ISK frigate. Assume idiocy and engage everything." Well, that's the way I used to fly them.

[blaad]

So the message here is "Its a 5 million ISK frigate. Assume idiocy and engage everything." Well, that's the way I used to fly them.

It's the best way to fly'em tbh.

My contribution to "Rifters can kill badly fit anything": #1 (http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11446885) #2 (http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11377548)

[Liare]

adding to the 'if you get the right situation a rifter can do anything' - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_det ... id=9062679 (not my kill)that's like winning eve or something, that cynabal should have won regardless. O.o

though, Armor buffered ? i though pro's ran em as shield buffered fagabond style boats.
like this? (http://the-bastards.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15451)
:psyduck:

[Ryuichi]

adding to the 'if you get the right situation a rifter can do anything' - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_det ... id=9062679 (not my kill)that's like winning eve or something, that cynabal should have won regardless. O.o

though, Armor buffered ? i though pro's ran em as shield buffered fagabond style boats.
like this? (http://the-bastards.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15451)
:psyduck:

How did the Cyna pilot not just neut the point off and escape, even it the rifter was under his guns and managed to take out drones? Fuck, I thought I was bad :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

[z0de]

adding to the 'if you get the right situation a rifter can do anything' - http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_det ... id=9062679 (not my kill)that's like winning eve or something, that cynabal should have won regardless. O.o

though, Armor buffered ? i though pro's ran em as shield buffered fagabond style boats.
like this? (http://the-bastards.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15451)
:psyduck:

How did the Cyna pilot not just neut the point off and escape, even it the rifter was under his guns and managed to take out drones? Fuck, I thought I was bad :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

Rifter had a nos to keep his point on plus some bumping, not my kill so can't say for sure.

[Wensley]

Yeah, a small nos is enough to keep the point on. Once the drones are down you won't need much if any cap for repping.

[Podcat]

Yeah, a small nos is enough to keep the point on. Once the drones are down you won't need much if any cap for repping.

prob dont even need to shoot the drones the sentries will get rid of them fast

[Talinthi]

Yeah, a small nos is enough to keep the point on. Once the drones are down you won't need much if any cap for repping.

prob dont even need to shoot the drones the sentries will get rid of them fast

Saying ofc your fighting on a gate, as a pirate I usually have sentries on me and don't get the benefit of ever haveing sentries on my side. That being said I rarely have trouble getting fights though it does take time and effort to find the good solo fights. I truthfully don't have much t1 frigate experience but I have had quite a lot of experience with drams and dd and other Frigs in low sec. I find that camping 2/10 plexes with expensive frigs can be quite good for getting good frigate fights. I've even had some good fights against larger ships that were stupid enough to enter the no mwd zone hehe

[Tsubutai]

Yeah, a small nos is enough to keep the point on. Once the drones are down you won't need much if any cap for repping.

prob dont even need to shoot the drones the sentries will get rid of them fast

Saying ofc your fighting on a gate, as a pirate I usually have sentries on me and don't get the benefit of ever haveing sentries on my side. That being said I rarely have trouble getting fights though it does take time and effort to find the good solo fights. I truthfully don't have much t1 frigate experience but I have had quite a lot of experience with drams and dd and other Frigs in low sec. I find that camping 2/10 plexes with expensive frigs can be quite good for getting good frigate fights. I've even had some good fights against larger ships that were stupid enough to enter the no mwd zone hehe
FWIW, all plexes now allow MWDs, afaik...

[Talinthi]

Yeah, a small nos is enough to keep the point on. Once the drones are down you won't need much if any cap for repping.

prob dont even need to shoot the drones the sentries will get rid of them fast

Saying ofc your fighting on a gate, as a pirate I usually have sentries on me and don't get the benefit of ever haveing sentries on my side. That being said I rarely have trouble getting fights though it does take time and effort to find the good solo fights. I truthfully don't have much t1 frigate experience but I have had quite a lot of experience with drams and dd and other Frigs in low sec. I find that camping 2/10 plexes with expensive frigs can be quite good for getting good frigate fights. I've even had some good fights against larger ships that were stupid enough to enter the no mwd zone hehe
FWIW, all plexes now allow MWDs, afaik...
As per what date?? The 2/10 gistii b plexes still do not allow mad as of oh.... 3-4 months ago. Whether this is by design or not my ab dual gyro permaboosting dram loved eating Frigs, cruisers, bc, hell even killed a bs once. That being said even those have faggots in them, but you get a lot more folks looking for a fight than you would most places. Good pew coupled with what's usually an easy 20-60mil isk who can refuse that.

[Wensley]

Yeah, a small nos is enough to keep the point on. Once the drones are down you won't need much if any cap for repping.

prob dont even need to shoot the drones the sentries will get rid of them fast

Saying ofc your fighting on a gate, as a pirate I usually have sentries on me and don't get the benefit of ever haveing sentries on my side. That being said I rarely have trouble getting fights though it does take time and effort to find the good solo fights. I truthfully don't have much t1 frigate experience but I have had quite a lot of experience with drams and dd and other Frigs in low sec. I find that camping 2/10 plexes with expensive frigs can be quite good for getting good frigate fights. I've even had some good fights against larger ships that were stupid enough to enter the no mwd zone hehe
FWIW, all plexes now allow MWDs, afaik...
As per what date?? The 2/10 gistii b plexes still do not allow mad as of oh.... 3-4 months ago. Whether this is by design or not my ab dual gyro permaboosting dram loved eating Frigs, cruisers, bc, hell even killed a bs once. That being said even those have faggots in them, but you get a lot more folks looking for a fight than you would most places. Good pew coupled with what's usually an easy 20-60mil isk who can refuse that.

This thread is about Rifters. Get out with your Dramiel faggotry.

[Samp]

As per what date?? The 2/10 gistii b plexes still do not allow mad as of oh.... 3-4 months ago. Whether this is by design or not my ab dual gyro permaboosting dram loved eating Frigs, cruisers, bc, hell even killed a bs once. That being said even those have faggots in them, but you get a lot more folks looking for a fight than you would most places. Good pew coupled with what's usually an easy 20-60mil isk who can refuse that.

I think it was about 3-4 months ago. And since when can a bigger ship get in a 2/10? And I am so going get on after DT and kill a Mach with my rifter.

It didn't work!

Liars. You own me a rifter.

[Talinthi]

As per what date?? The 2/10 gistii b plexes still do not allow mad as of oh.... 3-4 months ago. Whether this is by design or not my ab dual gyro permaboosting dram loved eating Frigs, cruisers, bc, hell even killed a bs once. That being said even those have faggots in them, but you get a lot more folks looking for a fight than you would most places. Good pew coupled with what's usually an easy 20-60mil isk who can refuse that.

I think it was about 3-4 months ago. And since when can a bigger ship get in a 2/10? And I am so going get on after DT and kill a Mach with my rifter.

It didn't work!

Liars. You own me a rifter.

^^ bigger ships can warp to the entrance and if they dont know wtf their doing... well it makes for some fun kills

[Ranges]

Thanks for the all the awesome info in this thread guys! Quite helpful.

I've started my own little rifter experiment, with 50 rifters in total, and i'm hoping to at least learn how to fly them decently.

Rifter fitting:
200mm AC's, a nos, web scram AB, gyro, DCU, small rep

My first two losses have been in fights against ishkurs. So far i've tried the following two options;
1) sit within a few hundred meters of where the ishkur appears, orbit, shove AC's in his face, and die horribly. Fail to spam warp, lose pod
2) try to kite the ishkur at about 5km, and kill his drones first (web + RF EMP) , fail to kill drones, die horribly. Fail to spam wap, lose pod.


Well, so far i've learnt the following two major lessons;
1) i FAIL a lot ;)
2) Ishkurs are rather tough
3) i should really start spamming warp out cause those clone costs are getting out of hand

So how should i go about trying to kill an ishkur with my rifter?

One idea i had was to refit my rifter with;
LR point, Web, MWD, smaller guns for better tracking

Then i can just kite at 20km until the drones are dead, and move to 5 or 6km afterwards to kill the ishkur.
Am i just wasting my time?

[Podcat]

Then i can just kite at 20km until the drones are dead, and move to 5 or 6km afterwards to kill the ishkur.
Am i just wasting my time?

load emp if hes got an active resist going. load fusion otherwise. kite at 6km or so and hope he doesnt load null. ignore the drones and hope for the best. its a pretty tough fight tho

[Lex Fasces]

i soloed an ishkur in a merlin a few months ago.

i orbitted at 6k and popped his drones then went in close and got through his cap boosted tank with heat antimatter!

[Helen]

i soloed an ishkur in a merlin a few months ago.

i orbitted at 6k and popped his drones then went in close and got through his cap boosted tank with heat antimatter!

Whats that got to do with a rifter?

[Kraftmann]

My first two losses have been in fights against ishkurs.
As someone who learned to PvP in an active-tanked Ishkur, I loved finding rifters on scan - they'd come to you, reliably aggress and usually die without even getting halfway through the Ishkur's armor. The smarter ones did get away...the Ishkur is a bit of a brick.

Focus on testing the Ishkur's fit/competence without fully committing, and escaping if the target is comptent?

[Ranges]

load emp if hes got an active resist going. load fusion otherwise. kite at 6km or so and hope he doesnt load null. ignore the drones and hope for the best. its a pretty tough fight tho
Thanks.. That means i got my second attempt about right.. and died anyway.. At least i did the Right Thing (tm)


As someone who learned to PvP in an active-tanked Ishkur, I loved finding rifters on scan - they'd come to you, reliably aggress and usually die without even getting halfway through the Ishkur's armor. The smarter ones did get away...the Ishkur is a bit of a brick.

Focus on testing the Ishkur's fit/competence without fully committing, and escaping if the target is comptent?
Well, i have 50 rifters, so losing a few in balls to the wall try or die attempts really isnt a problem at this point
Still, i appreciate the Ishkur point of view. Thanks!

So now for the big questin, Kraftmann; did you ever lose an ishkur to a rifter? and if so, why and how? :)

cut down on my smiley abuse

[Kraftmann]

Well, i have 50 rifters, so losing a few in balls to the wall try or die attempts really isnt a problem at this point
Still, i appreciate the Ishkur point of view. Thanks!

So now for the big questin, Kraftmann; did you ever lose an ishkur to a rifter? and if so, why and how? :) No losses to rifters, sorry. It's been a while, but I don't recall any rifter fights being close.

Sounds like you've got the stack of ships and determination to figure it out, though - would like to hear how it goes.

[Ranges]

Thanks for the kind words.. i'll get back to dieing to ishkurs as soon as i can find one ;)
If i ever manage to kill one, i'll come back to brag.

[Maksim]

Good thread. Although I don't fly a rifter, I am going to apply some of these lessons to other solo frigs.


Fail to spam warp, lose pod
Fail to spam wap, lose pod.

You definitely need to work on that. From my experience (please correct me if I am wrong), the best time to activate warp is the moment before your ship is popped. The idea is to make the warp command arrive on the server after your ship is destroyed, but before your client is aware of it. When I do it right, I can hear the "Warp drive active" message as my ship is exploding before I have fully entered the pod. This might vary with your computer and the amount of lag in system.

[Lex Fasces]

having a nos fitted will increase the number of targets you can take

[Lorkin Desal]

Just go for it. If you get blowed up, you lost a rifter. congrats.

[Ranges]

The Rifter Experiment.. Update.

Well, i lost a few more rifters.. 3 i think. To a kind gentleman in a navy comet. ( link (http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=194250), link (http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=194248), link (http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=194240))

Lessons learnt so far:
Bad: getting close to a blaster fit navy comet is death. You cannot get under his guns. Don't try it.
Bad: a small armor rep won't work for targets that can do unmitigated DPS on you. Find a buffer fit.
Bad: drones just fuck you over instantly.. perhaps i need to fit a thermic hardener, since i often see hobgoblins?

Good: orbiting a federation navy comet at about 5000 meters with web, scram and AB on, is a good way to mitigate his gun damage
Good: finding someone who will talk with you after shooting you to pieces is invaluable. mental note to self; talk to enemies for more info on how to fly properly

Noob mistakes:
1) Carrying way too much ammo
2) forgetting to activate AB (loss nr 2)
3) forgetting orbit is at 500, instead of 5k.. and hitting it (loss nr 1)

Plans:
1) fit a couple of 400mm plate rifters
2) fit a couple of 200mm plate rifters. Experiment with those
3) experiment with rocket launcher vs neut on the spare highslot

Anyway, this is turning into quite an entertaining way to spend my time.

[Shiodome]

just be sure to keep in mind that what you learn as the correct way to approach a blaster boat won't be relevant vs many other frigs. it's what's good about eve pvp... there's so many possible scenarios that you can only ever learn a handful of set counters, and beyond that you just gotta react to whatever is going on as things unfold. (i.e don't get stuck in your ways).

[Tyrus Tenebros]

200mm + SAR is pretty good iirc.

[Tsubutai]

Anyway, this is turning into quite an entertaining way to spend my time.
Judging by your battleclinic KB, you're a comparatively established player who flies (and can afford to fly) caps and t2 fit BCs/HACs/recons and suchlike. Under the circumstances, I don't think it makes much sense for you to fly unrigged meta 1-3 fit Rifters, even as a learning exercise - the loss in capability compared to rigged and t2-fit setups is very significant, and while there's something to be said for learning on ultra-cheap platforms, I think it's a false economy in this case that will result in you losing fights you could have won. T2 guns and barrage in particular are really important for Rifters. And since a full T2 fit is only going to run you 5-10m, you should still be able to lose a whole bunch of them without breaking the bank.

[Podcat]

Anyway, this is turning into quite an entertaining way to spend my time.
Judging by your battleclinic KB, you're a comparatively established player who flies (and can afford to fly) caps and t2 fit BCs/HACs/recons and suchlike. Under the circumstances, I don't think it makes much sense for you to fly unrigged meta 1-3 fit Rifters, even as a learning exercise - the loss in capability compared to rigged and t2-fit setups is very significant, and while there's something to be said for learning on ultra-cheap platforms, I think it's a false economy in this case that will result in you losing fights you could have won. T2 guns and barrage in particular are really important for Rifters. And since a full T2 fit is only going to run you 5-10m, you should still be able to lose a whole bunch of them without breaking the bank.

especially in lowsec where it seems more and more common for faggots to roll HG slaves etc in rifters. dont gimp yourself.

[Resi]

200mm + SAR is pretty good iirc.

I'd say it's the best learning frig as it's the most versatile, you can learn how to fight many different frigs (and cruisers) without having to change your fit.