Pre-emptive RvB rule-bending whine thread

[Daneel Trevize]

Because srs bsns internet spaceships & metagaming peoples got given the finger by CCP to let the highsec softcore PvP guys have a place, and people will whine. :D

[Mangala Solaris]

Yay an rvb fred.

[Varcaus]

So is this were we place bets on how far rvb will get?

[Mangala Solaris]

And Red & Blue get to fly as one entity.


Red Federation and Blue Republic share a common CEO so they are unable to field separate teams as per our new rule of no B or C teams. RvB will remain a single entity for this tournament and this fits with their theme of running 'Purple' during war situations.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1347020&#post1347020


And I may be up for a bet, but I'll mull it over.

[rojomojo915]

Considering all the no-names that got in through the draw, I think they easily make it to the round of 32.

[Malaes]

And Red & Blue get to fly as one entity.


Red Federation and Blue Republic share a common CEO so they are unable to field separate teams as per our new rule of no B or C teams. RvB will remain a single entity for this tournament and this fits with their theme of running 'Purple' during war situations.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1347020&#post1347020


And I may be up for a bet, but I'll mull it over.

Can we vote for who has to FC?

and then place bets

[Varcaus]

Nothing big mate maybe 100.

[Mangala Solaris]

And Red & Blue get to fly as one entity.


Red Federation and Blue Republic share a common CEO so they are unable to field separate teams as per our new rule of no B or C teams. RvB will remain a single entity for this tournament and this fits with their theme of running 'Purple' during war situations.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1347020&#post1347020


And I may be up for a bet, but I'll mull it over.

Can we vote for who has to FC?

and then place bets


Funny guy.

No way would I FC this, no cynos to warp us to.

[Smuggo]

Looking at some of alliances currently in it I'd say RvB will be quarter finalists for sure.

[Varcaus]

Smuggo were is your sig from

[Smuggo]

Smuggo were is your sig from

vOv

[Daneel Trevize]

Lol how many times did they change their minds too for the exception.
Red Federation and Blue Republic share a common CEO so they are unable to field separate teams as per our new rule of no B or C teams. RvB will remain a single entity for this tournament and this fits with their theme of running 'Purple' during war situations.
This conflicts with that CCP Loxy told us previously

And if that is the case, would blue and red members be able to fly in this "purple" team

RvB would like a clarification regarding our status, when Red Federation was drawn you indicated that we would only be represented by a single alliance but we plan on entering both Red and Blue, we asked and got the situation cleared when the rules regarding B teams came out. Here is the relevant post by CCP Loxy : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1233498#post1233498

As of this moment we plan on bidding for a spot with Blue Republic.

CCP Loxy is in the process of discussing this with the CEO of both RvB corporations. Once those discussions are complete we will update accordingly.

We have mailed your executor explaining the situation and apologize again publicly for having to reverse the decision. It's best if your executor shares the email with you rather then us posting here.

[Varcaus]

Smuggo were is your sig from

vOv

Welp

[Intigo]

Looking at some of alliances currently in it I'd say RvB will be quarter finalists for sure.

haha wat? that's FAR too random to state right now

all it takes is a group with 2 decent teams and they won't get past the group stage (but I'm fairly certain RvB will make it to the group stage unless they get very unlucky)

[Malaes]

And Red & Blue get to fly as one entity.


Red Federation and Blue Republic share a common CEO so they are unable to field separate teams as per our new rule of no B or C teams. RvB will remain a single entity for this tournament and this fits with their theme of running 'Purple' during war situations.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1347020&#post1347020


And I may be up for a bet, but I'll mull it over.

Can we vote for who has to FC?

and then place bets


Funny guy.

No way would I FC this, no cynos to warp us to.

Find out you're facing RvB
Fit smartbombs in the high slots
Rename all ships to cyno
Profit?!


That or bring a cyno frig in for the luls

[Smuggo]

Looking at some of alliances currently in it I'd say RvB will be quarter finalists for sure.

haha wat? that's FAR too random to state right now

all it takes is a group with 2 decent teams and they won't get past the group stage (but I'm fairly certain RvB will make it to the group stage unless they get very unlucky)

M8, lrn2jokes. I think group stage is definitely possible for RvB. At the very least, they actually pvp on a regular basis in the kind of gang size that's used in the tournament, so that instantly makes them a lot more experienced at this type of thing than most of the alliances on that list. Of course they could then end up grouped with hydra and PL, but even then... you never know.

[Mangala Solaris]

Only one rvb side gets to take part. :(

CCP dont get purple do they, and Paradox fails harder.

[Varcaus]

Only one rvb side gets to take part. :(

CCP dont get purple do they, and Paradox fails harder.

Just hop corp for AT? Needs to be a week before now but meh

[Daneel Trevize]

Eh I thought the alliance transfer window was long gone?

WTF Mang? Fucking :psyccp:
Actually, inb4 they change their mind/ruling again...

[Mangala Solaris]

We rae currently dealing with CCP, so fingers crossed for something at least.

[ROX Genghis]

I sense a Catch-22 here that could work in RvB's favor. If CCP considers them one alliance, then they can fly together as purple. If CCP considers them separate alliances, then the B-team rule should not apply to them and they can enter both alliances.

CCP shouldn't have it both ways.

[KalRyan]

I sense a Catch-22 here that could work in RvB's favor. If CCP considers them one alliance, then they can fly together as purple. If CCP considers them separate alliances, then the B-team rule should not apply to them and they can enter both alliances.

CCP shouldn't have it both ways.

Because it couldn't possibly be two separate alliances, both of which are run by the same person, which is exactly what the B Team rules are designed to stop.

[Mangala Solaris]

As I said in the devblog thread, back when the AT got announced, we asked about the B & C team rule as it applied to us, and got confirmation that it didnt, that we would be able to enter both red and blue as unique entitites.

Come the draw, and suddenly we cannot as we share a ceo (who is hands off in terms of AT stuff, while both sides are voraciously at each others throats) which CCP have known about for at least the past 6 months given all the work they have done with him in relation to advertising RVB and such.

Then we get Paradox saying we'd be joining as a single entity along the lines of when we "purple" up for war.

So its all confusing and right hand at ccp isnt speaking with left hand at ccp.

Its really irritating given that if only they had said this way back when we wouldnt have missed the 5th may (iirc) deadline for pilot hopping, if it had been necessary.

[KalRyan]

I have to ask..

Why didn't you just assume that the rules were going to apply to you like they did to everyone else and have the pilots swap to the appropriate alliance in the first place?

[Daneel Trevize]

Only decent option seems for them to allow Purple as you define it. Everyone else can just deal with it.
AKA if you were in R or B before the cutoff, you can fly in the 1 RvB AT team.

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik)? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why.

[KalRyan]

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik).

That's great and all.. but why would you just assume you get special treatment instead of trying to play within the rules as they're posted?

[rojomojo915]

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik).

That's great and all.. but why would you just assume you get special treatment instead of trying to play within the rules as they're posted?

They didnt assume, they asked for a clarification first and once they got that proceeded.

[Intigo]

all the CCP people are poastin' as if both alliances are a single team

The May 5th rule still applies we're just viewing them both as a single entity? Even if they switched internally the May 5th rule still applies.

but that's prolly another case of :CCP: and them not actually talking internally, haha

[KalRyan]

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik).

That's great and all.. but why would you just assume you get special treatment instead of trying to play within the rules as they're posted?

They didnt assume, they asked for a clarification first and once they got that proceeded.

Exactly my point.. they assumed they would get special treatment instead of just moving pilots to one alliance to apply for the tournament. ;x

Seems if they'd just put the people that they wanted in one alliance for the tournament all this could have been avoided.

[Smuggo]

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik).

That's great and all.. but why would you just assume you get special treatment instead of trying to play within the rules as they're posted?

They didnt assume, they asked for a clarification first and once they got that proceeded.

Exactly my point.. they assumed they would get special treatment instead of just moving pilots to one alliance to apply for the tournament. ;x

Seems if they'd just put the people that they wanted in one alliance for the tournament all this could have been avoided.

Except they asked way ahead of time and were told both alliances could enter as a single team (aka purple) and then at the last minute were told something different. You're fucking thick.

[KalRyan]

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik).

That's great and all.. but why would you just assume you get special treatment instead of trying to play within the rules as they're posted?

They didnt assume, they asked for a clarification first and once they got that proceeded.

Exactly my point.. they assumed they would get special treatment instead of just moving pilots to one alliance to apply for the tournament. ;x

Seems if they'd just put the people that they wanted in one alliance for the tournament all this could have been avoided.

Except they asked way ahead of time and were told both alliances could enter as a single team (aka purple) and then at the last minute were told something different. You're fucking thick.

No, I get it. They asked for special treatment (Two alliances can compete as one team), were told they could have special treatment, then got mad when special treatment was revoked.

[rojomojo915]

They got mad because the treatment was revoked well after the time they could of done anything about it. All CCP had to do was say no, only one of your alliances can enter, and they all could of joined the same one.

But either way, argument is dead now since CCP said both red and blue can compete under the same banner as long as they have been in the alliance by May 5.

[Smuggo]

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik).

That's great and all.. but why would you just assume you get special treatment instead of trying to play within the rules as they're posted?

They didnt assume, they asked for a clarification first and once they got that proceeded.

Exactly my point.. they assumed they would get special treatment instead of just moving pilots to one alliance to apply for the tournament. ;x

Seems if they'd just put the people that they wanted in one alliance for the tournament all this could have been avoided.

Except they asked way ahead of time and were told both alliances could enter as a single team (aka purple) and then at the last minute were told something different. You're fucking thick.

No, I get it. They asked for special treatment (Two alliances can compete as one team), were told they could have special treatment, then got mad when special treatment was revoked.

The point is they get told after the deadline when they could do something about it. I'm sure no one would be complaining if CCP had said said 3 weeks ago that they couldn't enter as a single team and they would have sorted themselves out into Red or Blue.

[Daneel Trevize]

But either way, argument is dead now since CCP said both red and blue can compete under the same banner as long as they have been in the alliance by May 5.Link plox

[Mangala Solaris]

Kal, do you know how much CCP have been giving exceptions & consideration to RvB? Go look at the top 2 corps/alliances for PvP in EVE today and how the war is great for new players, and understand why, along with the direct communications they've had (afaik).

That's great and all.. but why would you just assume you get special treatment instead of trying to play within the rules as they're posted?

They didnt assume, they asked for a clarification first and once they got that proceeded.

Exactly my point.. they assumed they would get special treatment instead of just moving pilots to one alliance to apply for the tournament. ;x

Seems if they'd just put the people that they wanted in one alliance for the tournament all this could have been avoided.

Except they asked way ahead of time and were told both alliances could enter as a single team (aka purple) and then at the last minute were told something different. You're fucking thick.

No, I get it. They asked for special treatment (Two alliances can compete as one team), were told they could have special treatment, then got mad when special treatment was revoked.

We didnt actually ask for 1 team, we asked about the B & C team rules. Which they said didnt apply to us (before deadline) based on performance last year. If we wanted to do one team we'd have just made a 3rd alliance and rolled with that.

Its CCPs various bods on the forums suggesting 1 team made of both sides, rather than us. And even then they are not being massively clear.

Anyway, there may be some form of resolution soon I hope, loxy is being very good in communications with our CEO.

[Intigo]

But either way, argument is dead now since CCP said both red and blue can compete under the same banner as long as they have been in the alliance by May 5.Link plox

holy shit read the official threads.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=112436

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112435&p=3

[Mangala Solaris]

And Smuggo is right, not one of us in RvB who have taken this to heart, would have issues if only it was all clear from the off.

Did we mess it up for ourselves by asking, imo NO, as while we are 1 community in name, we would and indeed did last year treat the AT as an extension of the more hostile sides of our little war with both teams understanding they hate the other side should their matches/groups have ended up the same.

[Daneel Trevize]

The latest I see is
Yes if you moved from red to blue on May 6th you cannot compete as would have been the case were we to allow them to compete individually so absolutely nothing has changed. I believe I've just answered that last paragraph twice but maybe I'm not the swiftest boat in the channel so could you try rephrasing it if I haven't?

:edit: Ok I might get it. The "No B-Teams" rule is new this year. That means we've had to adjust it a bit as we've worked through what a B-team is (It's not always obvious) and how we've seen the need to apply the rule. We told RVB they were ok earlier on because of their past participation, but after applying the rule in other places realized that we hadn't applied it properly to them in retrospect. In order to be fair to them this is the workaround.So how many RvB regulars were valid on the deadline, but since have invalidated themselves by switching sides?


Every hand is speaking with every hand here and we've stated exactly what we're going to do. We did change our minds a bit late in the game based on how we've viewed other teams and in needing to be fair to them RvB's position had to be re-clarified.

The deadline applies the same way as if you were a single entity, meaning you must have been in either red or blue and still in either red or blue from May 5th in order to compete. Unless I'm missing something the May 5th deadline is a non-issue so if I am please point it out to me.Is side-swapping not an issue then? I'm confused.

[Mangala Solaris]

The issue seems to be, we can only enter Red or Blue, not both (despite prior assurances). We'd ideally like to enter both sides individually, but cant; However there seems to be a pov from some ccpers that we can enter as 1 unit using pilots from either side if they meet the deadline.

Its all very confusing for me from my sick bed.

[Intigo]

so much :ccp: all over dis shit

if they were told they could enter both they should be allowed to enter both

;3

[Mangala Solaris]

Massive props to CCP.

RvB is entered as one entity comprising eligible pilots from both sides.

Means Red wont ever face Blue which would have been awesome, but at least we are in the tourney.


On the case of RvB.

We acknowledge that we initially allowed an exception for the two sides of RvB to compete in the tournament as two separate teams. On further review of that decision and the b and c team rule we found that to make such an exception and exclude other teams would raise serious questions. While we respect both sides of RvB who have both fought in the tournament before we must see them as one alliance in the eyes of the tournament.

We have been in contact with the executor of both alliances and have reached a decision that will allow both sides to compete together. This decision is now final and is a special case, it will have no impact on any other judgement with the b and c team rule on other alliances.


Both RvB - Red Federation and RvB - Blue Republic will compete as one alliance during the tournament, they will be referred to as "Red Vs Blue" in all matters related to the tournament.
Members of both alliances will be eligible for the joint team and should stay in their own alliance.
Members in either alliance must still have been a part of their alliance from downtime the 5th of May. Switching from one to the other will break this rule and make them ineligible.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1348872#post1348872

[Daneel Trevize]

Almost best case, again though how many good pilots are now ineligible, or were they always advised to remain in their chosen side for the AT duration?

[Mangala Solaris]

Almost best case, again though how many good pilots are now ineligible, or were they always advised to remain in their chosen side for the AT duration?

Without giving too much away, no one who is interested in the AT has switched sides following the deadline. So we probably have a good pool to pull from.

[BLEURRRRGH]

Smuggo were is your sig from

vOv

Welp

It's from a global warming ad that ran on TV in the UK a year or so ago.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR73mcZW7B4

Attracted some controversy and got pulled shortly afterwards ...

[Dirk Magnum]

I don't get this decision. RvB has been split into two alliances since before the last tournament, and each side has been a distinct entity for much longer. I don't see how both sides being individually eligible to enter the tournament is different from having two alliances from the same coalition both enter individually. There could just as easily be pilot swapping and combined Sisi training there, too.

[Daneel Trevize]

Again, RvB are officially and overtly 2 ingame alliances that work together for both's benefit. They could not both be in the tourne as per the new rules. They asked what to tell their people to do so they could have at least 1 team (that is, collection of people from themselves, not caring if they're all in Red or Blue officially), and then :CCP:
Coalitions can just be all "it's politics, what we do not what we say" w.r.t. temporary blue-ings, or fall foul of the rules if they cross them when that time comes. R & B only exist to serve the greater Purple good.

Lord knows CCP would love to ignore the shit that goes down on Sisi during this unless they can't avoid stepping in.

[Angel Hun]

Seems like the "Purple" solution is the best compromise in this case. Props to Loxy for not just saying ::screwit::