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Yankunytjatjara
April 15 2011, 11:35:24 AM
Rocket kessie


[Kestrel, spew]

4x Rocket Launcher II (Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket)

Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

Can beat non fail rifters if you get your orbit right from the start of the fight. A good AB/scram/web frigate pilot should win, but it will be a GF.

OrangeAfroMan
May 6 2013, 03:59:02 PM
This ship has majorly fallen off the radar. The old Kestrel thread was on page 10 and had 0 replies.

Anyway, Longdrinks gets credit for most of this fit, I tweaked it a bit and optimized it for my use. Pretty beastly IMO:

[Kestrel, Kestrel - Rocket]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

150 | 176 DPS w/ Rage @ 12.7km (25.5m explo radius | 223m/s explo velocity)
99.8 | 117 DPS w/ Javelin @ 22.8km
4.74k EHP
2655 | 3782m/s
3.56s align
45.1m sig radius
8.12mil isk

Lex Fasces
May 6 2013, 04:28:26 PM
Also works with armor and dual web for wannabe hookbill

don't you hate it when people sign forum posts...

Longdrinks
May 6 2013, 04:31:02 PM
Same as above only with ab and more tank. Not the most exciting or challenging ship to fly but very effective.
[Kestrel, AB rockets]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Shield Extender II

Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I


150 | 176 DPS w/ Rage @ 12.7km (25.5m explo radius | 223m/s explo velocity)
99.8 | 117 DPS w/ Javelin @ 22.8km
5.9k EHP
1009 | 1313m/s
3.56s align
49.3m sig radius
10.4 mill isk

Jayarr
May 6 2013, 05:39:41 PM
Fucking cinamites fucking light missile fucking keshit at the FFA

Naoru
May 6 2013, 06:40:18 PM
Got this fit from a Shadow Cartel dude.

[Kestrel, Telari Satar Kestrel]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I


It'll dumpster any LML Condor dumb enough to hang around. Also p. decent vs most frigs and dessies in lowsec. Could tweak the mids to get a web on.

Garviel
May 7 2013, 01:11:35 PM
Got this fit from a Shadow Cartel dude.

[Kestrel, Telari Satar Kestrel]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I


It'll dumpster any LML Condor dumb enough to hang around. Also p. decent vs most frigs and dessies in lowsec. Could tweak the mids to get a web on.


*Cough*BYDI*Cough*

Also seeing how i always die when i try to fly Telari's Kestrel i have decided that he must be using Devhacks to make it work.

W0lf Crendraven
May 7 2013, 01:16:46 PM
[Kestrel, kessoel]
Co-Processor II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Is better statwise. Worse vs artys tho.

Garviel
May 7 2013, 02:04:23 PM
[Kestrel, kessoel]
Co-Processor II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Is better statwise. Worse vs artys tho.

Also any extra module management while mwd kiting is a bad thing really.

W0lf Crendraven
May 7 2013, 02:48:48 PM
Not really, also the sig is smaller which is good.

OrangeAfroMan
May 7 2013, 04:20:27 PM
I hope you can kill your target with your 88 dps within the 2 minutes of cap you have.

Condor has much better capacitor and thus is the better kiter.

Garviel
May 7 2013, 04:48:56 PM
I hope you can kill your target with your 88 dps within the 2 minutes of cap you have.

Condor has much better capacitor and thus is the better kiter.

http://bydi.griefwatch.net/?p=kills&iname=Telari%20Satar&itype=Kestrel

W0lf Crendraven
May 7 2013, 04:51:14 PM
I hope you can kill your target with your 88 dps within the 2 minutes of cap you have.

Condor has much better capacitor and thus is the better kiter.

Thats still over 10k damage. It is however quite a bit slower and cant support dual ewar capwise, making it the worse ship in general.

Garviel
May 7 2013, 05:24:05 PM
I hope you can kill your target with your 88 dps within the 2 minutes of cap you have.

Condor has much better capacitor and thus is the better kiter.

Thats still over 10k damage. It is however quite a bit slower and cant support dual ewar capwise, making it the worse ship in general.

Selectable damage and more tank.

W0lf Crendraven
May 7 2013, 05:31:36 PM
Selectable damage sounds nice but isnt that important, scourge is pretty good. And its "tank" is worse/equal/better then the condors depending on the other ship, vs a arty thraser/slicer/railship a dualtd/damp condor has a better tank as against almost all other ships, against bonused drone speed ships and lml ships the kestrel is better, the problem is that vs 99% of these ships you either have to disengage or they can disengage (condors can run from kessies before they die, algos and co will force a kessie off just as they do with a condor.

Telari
May 7 2013, 06:01:31 PM
Kestrel Guru here.

I also thought selectable damage types wasn't a big deal at first, so I moved from the Kestrel to try the Condor. Turns out they are a huge deal. Being able to select the right damage type can grant you a massive damage bonus (Literally the % difference in resists compared to Scourge). When fighting Frigs and Destroyers they normally don't have much in the way of resist modules, maybe a adaptive nano or ENAM and a rig. So you can very easily predict the best damage type to give yourself a large DPS boost. Condor is nice for the cap and Speed, but the damage is bad. Much more so that EFT fits would lead you to believe.

The cap isn't amazing however it can be quite easily managed, I have had many fights go on for a while and I just end up pulsing the MWD or TD as needed. You are kiting and there is generally a little wiggle room for such things. Turn the MWD off for a few seconds and it will give you an extra 30 of cap etc, etc.

With regards to tank, it is similar to the Condor. However in a fight against a Condor it will just win. Being able to choose EM will ruin the Condor in 2/3 volleys if they have an ASB (You can Alpha straight through it) and 1 or 2 more if they are MSE. In that time you the Condor will take you to about 1/3 Shields with an MSE. If you find a LML Condor all you need to do is overheat and burn at it, unless they started doing it in the other direction at the same time they will die. There is just no time for them to escape.

MSE versus ASB is a hot topic. However I have found in my experience that if something can kill a you when you have a MS it can do the same if you have an ASB. The MSE gives you more time to see how much damage you are taking and judge the situation better. In an ASB versus MSE Kestrel fight, the MSE will win. The Alpha from EM missiles with just destroy it.

Drone bonused ships can be taken by a Kestrel if you are careful. As I have already said you can keep your cap going for a long time with management. Bonused drones can be 1 volleyed with precision missiles. Just keep the point and orbit at range, if you take too much damage bug out. It is not a sure thing to kill a drone ship, but I have certainly killed more (Decently fit/flown) ones that I have ran from.

Also take all Missile types, literally all. FOFs are rarely used, but amazing when they are and cost nothing. Precisions are vital for killing heavily tanked AB Frigs with reps (20%~ more DPS than factions) and Drones. Furies from Destroyers and up. Factions for MWD Frigs and slow AB frigs.

W0lf Crendraven
May 7 2013, 08:13:16 PM
With regards to tank, it is similar to the Condor. However in a fight against a Condor it will just win. Being able to choose EM will ruin the Condor in 2/3 volleys if they have an ASB (You can Alpha straight through it) and 1 or 2 more if they are MSE. In that time you the Condor will take you to about 1/3 Shields with an MSE. If you find a LML Condor all you need to do is overheat and burn at it, unless they started doing it in the other direction at the same time they will die. There is just no time for them to escape.


No, you cant volley a masb condor through shield if you are using a kessie. On paper you can, but in eve you cant. And no again on the escaping part, you need more then 10 seconds to kill a nontank condor, so even a compeltly untanked one will just be able to escape.

But again, if you fly unlinked, fly condor, the extra speed is worth more then the damage types and the little bit of tank you gain. Beeing faster then a heated af while not heating yourself is vital, and vs other frigates its a good thing to have aswell, giving you a longer time to heat your own mwd and not get scrammed.

The reason to fly a lml kiter is range and ewar, bar fighting other condors the kestrel is simply worse at both of these things.

Telari
May 7 2013, 08:26:55 PM
I could link you about 20 Condor kills that will prove you otherwise, but I really can't be bothered to go through my killboard. This isn't EFT advice, this is 400~ kills in a couple of months advice.

If the Condor does not start trying to escape and I am burning straight at him, he will die. It will take him more than 10 seconds to get out of range. Most also assume Kestrels are Rocket and will burn at me, by the time they are hit by the first volley they can't escape until around the 4th. A Condor cannot kill 1/2 of all AF and does at best middle of the road damage against everything else. Being able to pick your damage type in frig fights is vital.

Range is much higher in the Kestrel, not sure why you think it is better on the Condor. Yes Condor is faster, but Kestrel is faster than most other tech 1 frigs which is fast enough. Ewar is exactly the same as Kestrel, unbonused.

W0lf Crendraven
May 7 2013, 08:43:56 PM
Condor has 500 shield, you do 600 volleys vs a unmoving target, a lot less vs a condor going full speed, so no you wont two shot him and his asb wills tills afe his ass. He will ahve about 20 secs to run away minimum, more then enough to heat the mwd cycle and to gain 28km.

Beeing able to pick your damage types is neglectable due to your method of fighting, you either kite forever and kill your target slowly, or you die very fast. If you die very fast damage types wont save you, if you can kite forever it will take a little longer but that is no big difference. In a brawling ship its a huge deal but in a condor you either win with nearly full health or you die. Its a bonus but it isnt a gamechanger.

A condor can kill al afs bar a active tanked vengeance or a passive jag or any passive recharge active tankers (cap or shield).


I wasnt talking about missile range which doesnt matter unless you fly in gangs or fly linked, i was talking about the ability to stay at range, a kessie goes 3k, a condor 3.7. Doesnt sound like much but as i said before it makes all the difference, 3k is simply to slow as a frigate kiter, nearly all mwd frigs are faster then that with a heated mwd, meaning you will die to pretty much all brawling t1 frigs and to most afs (they slingshot you with a heated mwd and you are simply slower then they are, meaning you are dead). Ewar is the same yes, but a condor can support dual ewar capwise, the kestrel cant unless its gimping its fit.


The only thing the kestrel is better at is fighting other lml ships (which comes down to condors, seeing as lml corax/talwars/crows will rip you a new one) and (and this is the one reason to actually fly one) the meta, people will engage kestrels and people win run from condors.

Lastly, the condor gains more by fling with snakes/links then the kessie does which might be revelant to some people.

Garviel
May 7 2013, 09:29:52 PM
I like how you are arguing with the guy who probably has some of the most Kestrel kills in the game about what the kestrel can and cannot do.

Also selectable damage matters because the longer your opponent is alive the longer he has to try and slingshot you, blob you or do some other annoying thing

Telari
May 7 2013, 10:49:06 PM
Well dude think what you want. I have tried it hundreds of times and it works better in my experience. All I can say is a recommend you give it a try, damage types are more important than you think and the kestrel is fast enough with a Poly and Nano.

Also I am referring to Solo PvP in this respect, I have not flown it with Snakes or Links.

Lex Fasces
May 7 2013, 11:48:52 PM
Well dude think what you want. I have tried it hundreds of times and it works better in my experience. All I can say is a recommend you give it a try, damage types are more important than you think and the kestrel is fast enough with a Poly and Nano.

Also I am referring to Solo PvP in this respect, I have not flown it with Snakes or Links.

http://zkillboard.com/character/1983540147/top/

not bad he isnt even bullshiting.

either these work great in fleets.

QuackBot
May 8 2013, 12:00:10 AM
http://zkillboard.com/character/1983540147/top/

not bad he isnt even bullshiting.

either these work great in fleets.
Nope not really. Ships still have specialized roles in fleets.

Telari
May 8 2013, 07:11:37 AM
It would be interesting to see a Kestrel fleet with a similar setup to a Talwar fleet. I suspect it might even be better. I can certainly kick Talwars teeth in solo with a Kestrel.

W0lf Crendraven
May 8 2013, 08:22:15 AM
I like how you are arguing with the guy who probably has some of the most Kestrel kills in the game about what the kestrel can and cannot do.

Also selectable damage matters because the longer your opponent is alive the longer he has to try and slingshot you, blob you or do some other annoying thing

I can because he only flies kestrel, he knwos what he can kill and what he cant, and fights in a condor usually end after 30 seconds, if they havnt caught you by then. then your good. IT boild down to the fact that the kestrel is to slow to kill 99% of (non terrible) mwd frigs, meaning its pretty useless.


It would be interesting to see a Kestrel fleet with a similar setup to a Talwar fleet. I suspect it might even be better. I can certainly kick Talwars teeth in solo with a Kestrel.

Now you are just telling lies, a decent lml talwar will always win vs a kestrel, the talwar does more dps, has the smaller signature, has 2k more ehp and hits the kestrel at any speed for full damage using precision.

Telari
May 8 2013, 09:40:10 AM
Seriously take a look through my kills, there are plenty of MWD frigs. You can't just say 'You can't do this' and ignore a ton of evidence to the contrary.

Yes I know what the Kestrel can and cannot take on. But the fact is apart from DareDevils and Dramiels I have taken on and killed most shit. This isn't a point that can be argued, it happened.

A Talwar firing Nova does less DPS against a Kestrel firing EM. Again, have killed them before. A Talwar is a hard fight, but not impossible.

If you are going to accuse someone of lying at least have the decently to check first.

Lex Fasces
May 8 2013, 09:52:50 AM
It would be interesting to see a Kestrel fleet with a similar setup to a Talwar fleet. I suspect it might even be better. I can certainly kick Talwars teeth in solo with a Kestrel.

It works a treat. My corp did it to great effect a few weeks ago. You miss out on the alpha of talwars though.

Also bring maulus, they damp really helps

don't you hate it when people sign forum posts...

W0lf Crendraven
May 8 2013, 10:01:56 AM
Seriously take a look through my kills, there are plenty of MWD frigs. You can't just say 'You can't do this' and ignore a ton of evidence to the contrary.

Yes I know what the Kestrel can and cannot take on. But the fact is apart from DareDevils and Dramiels I have taken on and killed most shit. This isn't a point that can be argued, it happened.

A Talwar firing Nova does less DPS against a Kestrel firing EM. Again, have killed them before. A Talwar is a hard fight, but not impossible.

If you are going to accuse someone of lying at least have the decently to check first.

I said, non terrible mwd frigs, who know how to heat and how to slingshot. Also, no a talwar does more dps then a kestrel, it also has more em tank then vs any other damage type. A kestrel has about 4.5k ehp vs explo.

Lex Fasces
May 8 2013, 10:03:19 AM
Seriously take a look through my kills, there are plenty of MWD frigs. You can't just say 'You can't do this' and ignore a ton of evidence to the contrary.

Yes I know what the Kestrel can and cannot take on. But the fact is apart from DareDevils and Dramiels I have taken on and killed most shit. This isn't a point that can be argued, it happened.

A Talwar firing Nova does less DPS against a Kestrel firing EM. Again, have killed them before. A Talwar is a hard fight, but not impossible.

If you are going to accuse someone of lying at least have the decently to check first.

I said, non terrible mwd frigs, you know how to heat and how to slingshot. Also, no a talwar does more dps then a kestrel, it also has more em tank then vs any other damage type.

why dont you two just settle it with a fight in lowsec.

wolf in a non linked mwd frigate and telari in a kestrel. sorted.

W0lf Crendraven
May 8 2013, 10:10:06 AM
Id be up for it.

Telari
May 8 2013, 10:42:18 AM
mmm maybe, could be fun.

MWD frigs arn't ideal targets, but they are certainly viable ones for this fit. MWD frigs arn't really ideal for any sort of kiting ship truth be told.

People trying to slingshot is a danger, but generally I am manually piloting and recognise the signs so I can steer and avoid it.

If you fly the Condor a lot Wolf I still recommend giving the Kestrel a try, your points are valid and it does lack things the Condor has. However it is better than you think and the numbers would suggest.

W0lf Crendraven
May 8 2013, 11:03:40 AM
Im not saying its a bad ship ,when i said its useless and so on i was comparing it to the condor. On its own its a good lml kiter, it is a lot harder to fly then the condor tho.

Condor is still the better ship tho.

Telari
May 8 2013, 12:51:23 PM
Meh I disagree, but it is largely situational.

OrangeAfroMan
May 13 2013, 01:37:12 PM
Also take all Missile types, literally all. FOFs are rarely used, but amazing when they are and cost nothing. Precisions are vital for killing heavily tanked AB Frigs with reps (20%~ more DPS than factions) and Drones. Furies from Destroyers and up. Factions for MWD Frigs and slow AB frigs.

Here's an often overlooked question - how much of each ammo type do you carry with you?

Garviel
May 13 2013, 04:44:01 PM
Also take all Missile types, literally all. FOFs are rarely used, but amazing when they are and cost nothing. Precisions are vital for killing heavily tanked AB Frigs with reps (20%~ more DPS than factions) and Drones. Furies from Destroyers and up. Factions for MWD Frigs and slow AB frigs.

Here's an often overlooked question - how much of each ammo type do you carry with you?

http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=56796

W0lf Crendraven
May 13 2013, 05:12:33 PM
You can usually just carry explo and em if you are lazy (+ scougre, for kinetic bonused ship). The last two kills showcase my point btw.

http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=54501 Also, who is akt and why doesnt he know the correct range of points?

Garviel
May 13 2013, 09:07:58 PM
You can usually just carry explo and em if you are lazy (+ scougre, for kinetic bonused ship). The last two kills showcase my point btw.

http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=54501 Also, who is akt and why doesnt he know the correct range of points?

He is right... With loki links heated RF goes to 47.6..

Edit: or 53.8 with a ml.

W0lf Crendraven
May 13 2013, 10:01:59 PM
Quoting linked numbers without the mindlink is stupid.

Garviel
May 13 2013, 10:06:13 PM
Quoting linked numbers without the mindlink is stupid.

So is making frig/dessie fits revolved around using links but hey, who am i to judge? ^^

Resi
May 15 2013, 09:49:12 PM
I fought Telari in a Talwar before, he got me in to half structure, I know it's counter-intuitive but he's right about the Kestrel being able to take out Talwars.

http://anatidaephobia.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17712140

He hit me with EM damage to take out my shields, pulled out of lock range, reloaded to nova damage and came back in to try and finish me off. I should probably carry precisions for times like that but vOv.

OrangeAfroMan
May 15 2013, 09:51:31 PM
Been flying Telari's Kestrel fit - confirming that it is awesome.

Telari
May 16 2013, 09:49:52 AM
That was a good fight Resi, nearly got you. Precisions would have been a bad choice however, the extremely limited range would I meant you hit less. Faction is the best choice for killing that Kestrel fit.

W0lf Crendraven
May 16 2013, 12:38:42 PM
That was a good fight Resi, nearly got you. Precisions would have been a bad choice however, the extremely limited range would I meant you hit less. Faction is the best choice for killing that Kestrel fit.

If 31km (maybe 28km in reality) arent enough, then you could simply warp away or you are fighting a linked opponent.

OrangeAfroMan
May 16 2013, 12:56:42 PM
A kiting frig can be orbiting at ~20km and not get hit by 30km ranged missiles

Edit: also a Kestrel's speed/sig is enough for CN to hit well. You don't need precisions unless its an AB frig, inty (or T1 equivalent) or an AF with either AB or MWD

W0lf Crendraven
May 16 2013, 12:59:35 PM
If you stay still and let him orbit you yes, if you just move in a straght line anywhere, no.

OrangeAfroMan
May 16 2013, 01:32:41 PM
If you stay still and let him orbit you yes, if you just move in a straght line anywhere, no.

When they orbit in front of you they won't be hit

Telari
May 17 2013, 08:19:52 AM
Or if they just manual pilot they won't be hit, source; done it loads.

W0lf Crendraven
May 17 2013, 03:34:12 PM
Or if they just manual pilot they won't be hit, source; done it loads.

I dont doubt that you could kill a mediocre talwar pilot using precision, a good one will kill you easy mode tho, yes you can probably kill some badish mwd frigs (a condor will be able to kill most good ones aswell tho). The difference between me and you in this thread is that i assume the people to read this to be of the sort who just press orbit at 20, activate mods and hope while you it seems assume people to be good pilots (but its fhc 95% of the people here suck at solo pvp and are at best mediocre at small scale). Yes you probably can do some nice stuff with it but most people cant. And if someone then comes here, sees that fit and decides to try it out and then sees a ship you said was killable (if you outrange his missile for half the fight, change ammo and only point in the end and similar stuff) he then will gladly go in and wonder why he just died. The condor takes less skill to do good, while beeing at least as good when you have skill.

Lady Spank
May 17 2013, 08:01:52 PM
Nevermind, thought you had said something worth responding to only to realise it was dumb e-peening

OrangeAfroMan
May 17 2013, 08:14:37 PM
Nevermind, thought you had said something worth responding to only to realise it was dumb e-peening

LOL, I literally started to reply then canceled thinking the same thing.

Garviel
May 17 2013, 08:44:17 PM
I just cannot get over the fact that he is still arguing about the kestrel with someone that has 400+ kills in it.....

W0lf Crendraven
May 17 2013, 09:44:27 PM
I just cannot get over the fact that he is still arguing about the kestrel with someone that has 400+ kills in it.....

Someone who got 400kills in a stabber and argues that it is a better ship then the omen is still wrong.

Also that wasnt epeen.

OrangeAfroMan
May 17 2013, 09:47:54 PM
I just cannot get over the fact that he is still arguing about the kestrel with someone that has 400+ kills in it.....

Someone who got 400kills in a stabber and argues that it is a better ship then the omen is still wrong.


But that person doesn't exist.

W0lf Crendraven
May 18 2013, 01:02:56 AM
Also to give the tld;dr to my previous post. For the kestrel to be good you have to be a very good pilot, for the condor to be good you dont. And if both are flown by perfect pilots the condor imo still pulls slightly ahead.

And since imho treat people who come here to get fits as bads (medicores at best) we as a forum shoudl recommend the condor for that reason.


i would even say that anyone coming here for fits isnt a very good pvper, you shouldnt look for people to give you fits, you should look for inpiration on ways to fit a ship and never copy a setup 1 to 1 unless you tried at least for 5 min in eft to make it better. For example you dont see lords harpy and fly that, you see it and see the reasoning behind it and then you see how the ship behave in different fitting situations and then you pick your personal fit.

Davion Falcon
May 18 2013, 02:15:40 AM
W0lf, I hope you never get banned from FHC, you make everyone (myself included) look positively glorious next to you.

Tyrus Tenebros
May 22 2013, 07:43:41 PM
[spoiler]
i would even say that anyone coming here for fits isnt a very good pvper, you shouldnt look for people to give you fits, you should look for inpiration on ways to fit a ship and never copy a setup 1 to 1 unless you tried at least for 5 min in eft to make it better. For example you dont see lords harpy and fly that, you see it and see the reasoning behind it and then you see how the ship behave in different fitting situations and then you pick your personal fit.

I sincerely disagree with your spoilered comment, and the fact that you're implying the discussion and fitting advice available in a relatively detailed narrative format from extremely experienced pilots, and the opportunity to get feedback as (a respectful and at least mildly competent) noob by asking for additopnal advice is not worthwhile calls in to question your entire reason for bothering to post in the subforum
How about having an attitude that implies there are worthwhile discussions and lessons learned and posting them in a helpful explanatory format being enough without the dripping condescension and self-stroking?

For that matter I post and read (used to more often I suppose, as far as this subforum) here specifically BECAUSE it is one of the highest quality public discussions of ship fitting around. (As sad as that is sometimes).

W0lf Crendraven
May 23 2013, 05:55:22 PM
Well dude think what you want. I have tried it hundreds of times and it works better in my experience. All I can say is a recommend you give it a try, damage types are more important than you think and the kestrel is fast enough with a Poly and Nano.

Also I am referring to Solo PvP in this respect, I have not flown it with Snakes or Links.




[spoiler]
i would even say that anyone coming here for fits isnt a very good pvper, you shouldnt look for people to give you fits, you should look for inpiration on ways to fit a ship and never copy a setup 1 to 1 unless you tried at least for 5 min in eft to make it better. For example you dont see lords harpy and fly that, you see it and see the reasoning behind it and then you see how the ship behave in different fitting situations and then you pick your personal fit.

I sincerely disagree with your spoilered comment, and the fact that you're implying the discussion and fitting advice available in a relatively detailed narrative format from extremely experienced pilots, and the opportunity to get feedback as (a respectful and at least mildly competent) noob by asking for additopnal advice is not worthwhile calls in to question your entire reason for bothering to post in the subforum
How about having an attitude that implies there are worthwhile discussions and lessons learned and posting them in a helpful explanatory format being enough without the dripping condescension and self-stroking?

For that matter I post and read (used to more often I suppose, as far as this subforum) here specifically BECAUSE it is one of the highest quality public discussions of ship fitting around. (As sad as that is sometimes).

Im not saying it's not worthwhile, I'm saying that if you come here to simply get fits you aren't add good as you could be.

Lex Fasces
May 23 2013, 06:19:47 PM
Maybe people come here for inspiration. I think you are here to swing your epeen around and start arguments for no reason.

W0lf Crendraven
May 23 2013, 10:28:17 PM
Maybe people come here for inspiration. I think you are here to swing your epeen around and start arguments for no reason.

I dont swing my epeen, and if i was i didnt intend to (i never ever write something like a pilot as good as i am or some other epeen stuff), second part semi guilty.

Garviel
May 24 2013, 02:45:10 AM
BC is for noobs to make fit carbon copies

Failheap is to get ideas.

Lex Fasces
May 24 2013, 01:31:36 PM
Maybe people come here for inspiration. I think you are here to swing your epeen around and start arguments for no reason.

I dont swing my epeen, and if i was i didnt intend to (i never ever write something like a pilot as good as i am or some other epeen stuff), second part semi guilty.

well your wrong.

cant argue with that nerd.

and yeah the quality of the discussion and the fits on this forum is the highest of any other fan forum i have read and better than the majority of the crap on eveo

Iam Kikas
June 2 2013, 03:39:17 AM
Well - Telari flies primarily one fit very well and I fly a dozen or so not as well...and I will say that the extra tank on a mwd lml kestrel kills a condor most of the time. You OH your mwd and approach the condor...by the time they realize what is happening they rarely have time to get out of point range...and die. What wolf says is true if the lml pilot has less than perfect missile skills, but 2 experienced pilots on equal footing (ie no links running, etc.) the edge is def with the Kestrel.

just my 2 isks worth

W0lf Crendraven
June 3 2013, 10:41:33 AM
[spoiler]
i would even say that anyone coming here for fits isnt a very good pvper, you shouldnt look for people to give you fits, you should look for inpiration on ways to fit a ship and never copy a setup 1 to 1 unless you tried at least for 5 min in eft to make it better. For example you dont see lords harpy and fly that, you see it and see the reasoning behind it and then you see how the ship behave in different fitting situations and then you pick your personal fit.

I sincerely disagree with your spoilered comment, and the fact that you're implying the discussion and fitting advice available in a relatively detailed narrative format from extremely experienced pilots, and the opportunity to get feedback as (a respectful and at least mildly competent) noob by asking for additopnal advice is not worthwhile calls in to question your entire reason for bothering to post in the subforum
How about having an attitude that implies there are worthwhile discussions and lessons learned and posting them in a helpful explanatory format being enough without the dripping condescension and self-stroking?

For that matter I post and read (used to more often I suppose, as far as this subforum) here specifically BECAUSE it is one of the highest quality public discussions of ship fitting around. (As sad as that is sometimes).

Cause i decided to be less of a mean person from now on let me rephrase what i said to make it sound better and less l33tish.

"You should not blindly copy fits you see, you need to understand why a one fits a certain module in a certain slot, you need to understand why a nano in a shield fit has its uses. Thats why when you see a ship you like and see a fit that looks good and/or fun you should plug it into eft and see why its fit this way, this way you can understand what each module does and why it is fit. Then you should play around with it for a bit just to see if you can make it better and better suited for your needs. At one point the fits you create yourself in eft will be very very similar to what other peoples posted fits are (as fitting is pretty much min/maxing) you then dont need to browse forums anymore to get a general fit for a ship, you then look for specific ways a ship is fit and you can get ideas from them. (i.e armor kiting fits, getting the rigs to give range and use lows for something else or using a t2 dps rig to save cpu and to use the free owslot for something else), or you see general ideas (10mn thrasher for example) and you implement these ideas in different fits."


Its pretty basic stuff. (and its not directed at any of you, its directed at someone who comes looking for fits here and simply copies something)

smokEthebear
June 3 2013, 03:15:25 PM
"People should have common sense."


We all have dreams.

Cearain
June 10 2013, 08:27:10 PM
This has likely been my most successful fit yet. It can engage allot of different ships.

[Kestrel, armor td]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

MeClever
June 26 2013, 07:11:22 AM
To Telari sensei, I've just manually calculated damage reduction coefficient for several target speed/sig configurations, it's like rigor > flare rig.

sharptoast
June 26 2013, 07:33:13 AM
To Telari sensei, I've just manually calculated damage reduction coefficient for several target speed/sig configurations, it's like rigor > flare rig.

You joined one day before my birthday.

Also, I think thats always been the case since people PVE'ed in Tengus.

BaronFel
June 28 2013, 02:22:59 AM
Against Frigates, do you use Rage rockets or CN rockets? Assuming you have one web.

sharptoast
June 28 2013, 07:43:43 AM
CN.

Rage against Dessies and up should be fine with good skillz.

Kai Lae
July 5 2013, 12:00:57 PM
Thread lacks content (surprisingly). Worked this up, don't think it's that great but it is up to date:

[Kestrel, Light Missile]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

W0lf Crendraven
July 5 2013, 12:17:13 PM
http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?12204-PVP-Kestrel

Sparkus Volundar
July 5 2013, 12:18:31 PM
Thread lacks content (surprisingly).

Ah, there's a newer thread here (http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?12204-PVP-Kestrel&highlight=Kestrel).

Having just checked, it looks like the PvP Ship Fitting list (http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?2655-Ship-Fittings-PvP) has an out-of-date link and brings us here.

Paging mods.

Cearain
July 22 2013, 06:53:58 PM
Against Frigates, do you use Rage rockets or CN rockets? Assuming you have one web.



I tend to use rage most of the time - unless I am fighting something with an oversized ab or a dramiel.

I know eft says faction missiles are if they are at top speed but I don't think they are always at top speed.

I might be wrong on this though.

Telari
July 26 2013, 08:27:39 AM
To Telari sensei, I've just manually calculated damage reduction coefficient for several target speed/sig configurations, it's like rigor > flare rig.

Yep, you are right. I changed my fit to that a while ago. Just didn't update here.

MeClever
August 1 2013, 10:53:02 PM
To Telari sensei, I've just manually calculated damage reduction coefficient for several target speed/sig configurations, it's like rigor > flare rig.

Yep, you are right. I changed my fit to that a while ago. Just didn't update here.

What do you think about switching rof rig to damage rig?
1) Not sure that I understand overheat mechanics, but I think launchers will be taken less damage.
2) More alfa

Telari
August 14 2013, 11:46:19 AM
This is something again I already have done. It works out better, the Alpha is generally more important.

ry ry
August 14 2013, 01:45:28 PM
This has likely been my most successful fit yet. It can engage allot of different ships.

[Kestrel, armor td]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

ooh, only just noticed you'd posted this.

that is exactly the fit i use and it's really really good. i'd take on pretty much any (https://zkillboard.com/detail/31413161/) turret ship in this.

Hilariously, it's so freaking easymode i try not to use it too much. suspect you could do something similar with a breacher too.

Garviel
August 14 2013, 09:00:36 PM
This has likely been my most successful fit yet. It can engage allot of different ships.

[Kestrel, armor td]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

ooh, only just noticed you'd posted this.

that is exactly the fit i use and it's really really good. i'd take on pretty much any (https://zkillboard.com/detail/31413161/) turret ship in this.

Hilariously, it's so freaking easymode i try not to use it too much. suspect you could do something similar with a breacher too.

Come fight my Comet? ^.^

bitreider
August 14 2013, 10:05:33 PM
Come fight my Comet? ^.^

In his defense, kiting turret frigs are rarer than kiting missile frigs. I can see comet or any Scorch-wielding frig giving this one some problems.

Tetsuo
August 14 2013, 11:25:39 PM
Come fight my Comet? ^.^

In his defense, kiting turret frigs are rarer than kiting missile frigs. I can see comet or any Scorch-wielding frig giving this one some problems.

Depends how it's fit but I'd think a MWD turret frig is going to have to come into scram range to counter optimal disrupt script TDs at which point it's getting scrammed and webbed and then orbitted at 500 with tracking speed script applied. TD brawlers are a pretty hard counter to scorch slicers tbh, haven't had the chance to use one against a rail comet yet.

bitreider
August 14 2013, 11:37:07 PM
Come fight my Comet? ^.^

In his defense, kiting turret frigs are rarer than kiting missile frigs. I can see comet or any Scorch-wielding frig giving this one some problems.

Depends how it's fit but I'd think a MWD turret frig is going to have to come into scram range to counter optimal disrupt script TDs at which point it's getting scrammed and webbed and then orbitted at 500 with tracking speed script applied. TD brawlers are a pretty hard counter to scorch slicers tbh, haven't had the chance to use one against a rail comet yet.

Yeah I see what you mean. I was just thinking Scorchies would be able to apply dps well enough after tackle but before script change. But I suppose its also beneficial that the fits buffer is in armor. Definitely going to have to try this fit with my fw alt.

- phoning it in

Davion Falcon
August 15 2013, 12:16:18 AM
So it's significantly slower than a shield kestrel, is there any reason a turret ship (short or long range) would fight it any differently (ie, blaster incursus -> get to 0)?

Edit: Passive/aggressive negrep received from he-who-shall-not-be-named. Op success.

ry ry
August 15 2013, 12:04:07 PM
With javs it hits out to 20k or something, so if you start TDing a rail ship and they try to kite you with anything short of spike or whatever they're either in deep falloff or your DPS. If you are taking damage still you can manually keep transversal up and possibly switch the scripts (people don't seem to check what you're doing beyond the initial effect) then they're stuck trying to fly parallel to you and keep range which seems painful.

Sure, there are a bunch of ships that will beat any slow-ass 400mm AB t1 frig. Trundling around in a brawling kestrel the counters are pretty obvious ;) The couple of neut+ab+web Jaguars i've fought were hard, which surprised tbh, couldn't out-track them and couldn't keep range. Firetails are easy, TD'd retris can't track for shit, any AC/blaster boats and nano-y short range kiters like slicers are all fairly straightforward.

The trick is to not engage stuff that is likely to get to zero and stay there, or will have the chance to sit in the sweetspot between the edge of your DPS and the effect of your TD.

I also nearly died to a dampy maulus who was mashing keep @ 15, dropping drones letting them hit me once then immediately pulling them before my rockets could hit the other day too (i was rescued after what seemed like 10mins of getting chipped away, unable to muster a slow-mo slingshot) but tbh thats a damping maulus. They're no fun to fight and I engaged it by mistake :/



Come fight my Comet? ^.^
I suspect it works more from a 'suprise! i'm gonna brawl you now' angle, than an arranged 1v1 after i've just shown you my fit.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure you're much better than me at pvp anyway. I'm pretty horrible at eve.

Shin_getter
August 15 2013, 06:28:21 PM
22.8 km jav range... (+2.4km effective when burning away) ....that is pretty scary projection.

Looks like a meta-game changer if the fit spreads.

ry ry
August 16 2013, 07:15:00 AM
All the cheesy ewar frigs still win, missile ships still win, dual asb fits and fast high-tracking ships have a decent shout.

obviously stuff like hawks probably aren't worth engaging at all unless you know they're shitfit.

phone post.

QuackBot
August 16 2013, 08:00:15 AM
All the cheesy ewar frigs still win, missile ships still win, dual asb fits and fast high-tracking ships have a decent shout.

obviously stuff like hawks probably aren't worth engaging at all unless you know they're shitfit.

phone post.
And i don't even think this fits.

BaronFel
September 29 2013, 03:38:03 AM
There any 10mn LML fits that work?

Mr Marram
September 29 2013, 05:07:53 AM
The PG is too short to actually fit anything without massively gimping it, ask w0lf about his 100mil 10mn hookbill.

[Kestrel, 10mn AB LML]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
F85 Peripheral Damage System I

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I


Pitiful damage, 63 DPS with 529 volley. Rather slow at 1933m/s and 18.3s to get to that so most ships will keep up in that time and give you a good hiding.

Not that expensive, cap stable with everything running and the ASB with charges (without charges it will drain your whole cap in about 6s.

BaronFel
September 30 2013, 01:24:11 AM
I was asking more if it works than a fit, but I'll try it out. Not sure if you want a DCU or a T2-point+more speed but I guess that's up to the user.
I'm also not so sure how the HB would work with 10 less PG and one more mid slot to fill.

Mr Marram
September 30 2013, 03:52:55 AM
I was asking more if it works than a fit, but I'll try it out. Not sure if you want a DCU or a T2-point+more speed but I guess that's up to the user.
I'm also not so sure how the HB would work with 10 less PG and one more mid slot to fill.

The fight is pretty tight, cant really go T2 AB or point without another PG, or CPU rig.

QuackBot
September 30 2013, 04:00:12 AM
There any 10mn LML fits that work?
I like that. Also, any way to inherit someone else's lands on death, and if they find one who is willing to do it on purpose.

ry ry
September 30 2013, 07:25:28 AM
If you want to attack stuff likely to be sat in fw plexes at zero, no. You will get fucked more often than not.

Drones still keep up, webs make you slow, can't pull range in time any mwd frig will easily close range and you turn like a boat.

If you start at range then you have time to get your speed up.

phone post.

ry ry
September 30 2013, 07:26:33 AM
Edit. Tapashit 4 more like.

shoki
January 4 2015, 08:34:00 PM
so... what ammo should i have on me when brawling with this ship?

The real question here is, when do i use rage rockets, and when not?

vDJ
January 4 2015, 09:33:34 PM
Someone answered these questions thoroughly in here iirc.

I'll try to find them.

W0lf Crendraven
January 5 2015, 03:51:25 AM
http://fleeonsight.blogspot.ch/2012/08/complete-guide-to-ammunition-choices.html still a good read, aprt about t2 missiles is outdated but that doesnt apply to rockets anyways.

If they have an ab navy ammo if you shoot frigate, if they dont have an ab and you dont have a web use navy ammo (to be safe), if you have a web and they dont have an ab use rage, use rage against destroyers if you have a web, use navy ammo vs dessies if they move 600+m/s while webbed and scrammed. Always use faction ammo vs ceptors, disruptor frigates (atron and co) and pirate frigates. Remember that faction ammo exceeds rage range and javelin beats both, in a duel the one burning away from the other at the edge of scram range wins. With dual webs use rage vs non pirate frigs. It basicely comes down to every ship which one to use (merlin vs incursus for example, you can probably shoot rage at the merlin while the cursus needs navy ammo)

Always use rage vs anything bigger then a dessie bar a logsitical ship.

If you get kited try to make the other ship burn after you while having javelins loaded.

In short, if they have an ab use navy ammo, if they dont use rage.

OrangeAfroMan
January 5 2015, 04:19:10 AM
so... what ammo should i have on me when brawling with this ship?

The real question here is, when do i use rage rockets, and when not?

Every ship will take full damage (or very near) from Rage rockets if it is webbed.

(an AB Claw with no tank mods will take 141 dps instead of 150.... add a 200mm plate and it goes to 145 dps)

W0lf Crendraven
January 5 2015, 04:33:20 AM
heat, also posible links, snakes, x instinct, just better to go with faction.

OrangeAfroMan
January 5 2015, 04:37:48 AM
Or don't engage AB only inties which are rare as all fuck [because they're terrible].