multiple activations of the same module

[RoemySchneider]

the crux with (some) recons as force multipliers is that their EW only hits single targets. where webs(&painters) help the entire gang bitchslapping even the smallest&fastest targets, damps and TDs pmuch only help one guy that's being shot at. well, and jammers work (too) well enough to shut down multiple ships already.
what if damps and TDs could do that, too: allow them to activate their EW vs multiple targets...?
if max locks is too large a number (i.e. 12) , how about hijacking the spec skill to allow one additional activation per lvl (i.e. up to total of 6).

or... we could have the latter anyways - applying to any ship using these forms of EW -and give the according recons a 100% bonus to that -.-

then, one arazu could damp 12 dudes with 2-4x damps

... which is why we might then have to nerf the numbers a bit -.-



*puts on flame suit*
http://www.tonkoorevaar.be/Always-Elvis-2/Concert-facts/Conserts-suits/suit-images/flame%20suit1.jpg

[Ophichius]

Mmm, a bit hacky as proposed, but not a fundamentally terrible idea. I'd love to see the current scripting system used. Load some sort of 'burst dispersal' script that weakens the effect, but causes it to be an AoE burst centered on the locked target.

All the code to do all of that stuff is already in the engine, so I can't imagine it would be horribly difficult to implement. Balancing would be a whole different issue. Interestingly enough, only TDs and Damps are scripted E-war, so it really does match quite nicely.

-O

[Tyrus Tenebros]

Just boost the recon bonus so that one damp and/or one TD will effectively shut down one ship anyways.

One damp from a razu -> one logi or one drake no longer doing shit

One TD from a curse -> one turret ship no longer doing shit


Obviously, Sensor boosters and tracking enhancers / tracking comps already exist to counter these effects.

Webs, ECM, and to some extent TPs are already "working as intended", though TPs in general could use a bit of a buff, or webs a bit of a nerf to the tracking formula (due to the current relative massive advantage of using a web over a TP)

edit: also make optimal range on damps, TDs, and TPs longer.

[Mike deVoid]

You could shorten the cycle time to say 1 second but the effect lasts on the target ship for say 6 seconds.

Would allow you to cycle between 6 targets with the effect on all 6 without gaps.

If you decided to leave the module on the same target they'd have 6 effects all stacked up (include, or not, the stacking nerf).

Rebalance values and times to taste

[Rania Serlia]

Personally, I think that TDs are pretty decent as is. Even unbonused, fitting one in your last spare midslot is almost never a waste of a slot solo or smallgang. Even though one bonused TD won't shut down a turret ship, but it can significantly reduce it's output. An arbitrator with an armor tank can fit mwd+tackle+2x TD and take one ship more or less out of a fight. I would love to see some TD changes/a buff, however IMO it's hard to balance any changes to TDs given the arbitrator is already a decent combat ship(nevermind the curse or sentinel).

Damps on the other hand are currently those modules that got nerfed because people were fitting them in every spare midslot, and someone forgot to tweak the appropriate ship bonuses to compensate for the new stats. See also: ECM nerf and following ecm ship tweaks. I wouldn't be opposed to aoe scripts, but it would have to be very carefully statted so there would be a reason to load the other scripts, yet still be effective enough to be useful vs tightly packed blobs.

If you could stack multiple activations on one target though...Welcome back, solo unlockable kitelachesis.

[RoemySchneider]

Personally, I think that TDs are pretty decent as is. Even unbonused, fitting one in your last spare midslot is almost never a waste of a slot solo or smallgang. Even though one bonused TD won't shut down a turret ship, but it can significantly reduce it's output. An arbitrator with an armor tank can fit mwd+tackle+2x TD and take one ship more or less out of a fight. I would love to see some TD changes/a buff, however IMO it's hard to balance any changes to TDs given the arbitrator is already a decent combat ship(nevermind the curse or sentinel).

Damps on the other hand are currently those modules that got nerfed because people were fitting them in every spare midslot, and someone forgot to tweak the appropriate ship bonuses to compensate for the new stats. See also: ECM nerf and following ecm ship tweaks. I wouldn't be opposed to aoe scripts, but it would have to be very carefully statted so there would be a reason to load the other scripts, yet still be effective enough to be useful vs tightly packed blobs.

If you could stack multiple activations on one target though...Welcome back, solo unlockable kitelachesis.

ah no, sry for not conveying that;
indeed only 1 activation per target - for each module though.



some other selling point for this: perhaps using 1x TD vs 5x drones can actually help cruisers survive vs the massive onslaught of 100+mbit boats.
[insert ancient rant about medium, heavy AND fighter drones sporting 125m gun resolution :roll: ]

[Mfume]

Just boost the recon bonus so that one damp and/or one TD will effectively shut down one ship anyways.

One damp from a razu -> one logi or one drake no longer doing shit

One TD from a curse -> one turret ship no longer doing shit

There are already enough tear-filled threads about the overpowered nature of recons vs. soloers.

[Varcaus]

Just boost the recon bonus so that one damp and/or one TD will effectively shut down one ship anyways.

One damp from a razu -> one logi or one drake no longer doing shit

One TD from a curse -> one turret ship no longer doing shit

There are already enough tear-filled threads about the overpowered nature of recons vs. soloers.
Honestly a recon should shut down a lone ship maybe not kill but jam/web/damp/neut into uselessness otherwise recons themselves are pretty useless.

[Vortex]

You could shorten the cycle time to say 1 second but the effect lasts on the target ship for say 6 seconds.

Would allow you to cycle between 6 targets with the effect on all 6 without gaps.

If you decided to leave the module on the same target they'd have 6 effects all stacked up (include, or not, the stacking nerf).

Rebalance values and times to taste

The game engine doesn't really like module cycle times < ~2 seconds. Probe launchers and NOmen pulse lasers already push the game to the edge. 1s cycle time would see very inconsistent pulses between when the cycle has ended and when your client actually figures that out.

I'd agree that if one wanted to do this, the best method would be adjusting the ship bonuses upwards until 1 module = 1 ship gone (more or less what the Falcon gets) from the fight. A recon spoiling a "solo" player is no different than an unexpected scimitar or falcon showing up anyways, so it doesn't matter what your particular level of screwed is coming from. Keep in mind though, that in large fights its difficult to coordinate your EW across all the targets. If you want EW to be useful in fleets, then there needs to be UI additions so that you can see the effects of your fleets EW. I'd propose something along the lines of a toggled box on the overview that shows the status of your squadmates (not other squads/wings/etc) EW. Would make it a lot easier to know who is pointed/webbed and who has jammers pointed at them, etc.

edit: just remembered that the game engine doesn't communicate that kind of information between clients...soooo.... (this is why you can't see shots missing your allies ships, your client doesn't know the result of those attacks).

[Mfume]

Honestly a recon should shut down a lone ship maybe not kill but jam/web/damp/neut into uselessness otherwise recons themselves are pretty useless.

I agree totally. I just don't want to read the threads that emerge when a single bonused and scripted TD takes a blaster boat's falloff to under 2km or makes tracking a similar ship impossible at 5km.

[Rania Serlia]

A double TD arbitrator can already effectively shut down a single turret ship rather easily. Granted, this isn't enough to get line pilots into arbitrators, but it's a good use of amarr newbies in a smallgang. Explaining to them exactly how their EW works is a must though of course.
Run the dps graph on a double TD(tracking speed disruption) arbi vs a cookiecutter(double TE, double gyro) shieldycane at and under 5km with full (mwd off) transversal and the results are pretty telling.
Alternately, run the graphs with optimal disruption and see what happens to your projection/falloff. (0.3+3.3 with RFEMP, 0.7+5 w/barrage)

Using those numbers as a guideline, an armor Curse with the current TDs could take two (battlecruiser class)turret ships effectively out of a fight. I'll grant that nobody flies armor curses anymore because they are just not very surviveable at all.

I mean granted, a double TD arbi is probably not going to be cap boosting, so the fight could go pretty apoorly for little old arbitrator(cane neuts can be counternossed), but that was just an example.

This is already a ship that can dictate the range at which it must be effectively fought, and the arbi deals reasonable dps for a cruiser too(well 5 bonused mediums isn't a joke at least, and plenty of spares). Making one TD=one disabled ship would have to be balanced carefully against people just jamming two of them on their myrmidons and hyperions to shut down completely any other soloer, and the arbitrator just being able to plain kill any turret ship 1v1, which right now it cannot do(midslots are extremely valueable on an armor tanked EW cruiser that's trying to solo!).

I know I'm restating a previous statement, however, IMO, any attempt to rebalance TDs for gang work would have to be carefully weighed against turning the humble TD bonused ships into auto win vs any turret ship solopwnmobiles.