Getting shit done - University

[Sofia Roseburn]

I might end up shunting this to another section, but I'd like some advice.

I suppose the easiest way to start is by saying that I'm a casual. Have been for the past couple of years, to the degree that I stopped giving a fuck around the college area (UK). I can attribute this partially to stuff that was going on in my life at the time, but at the end of the day I fucked up and ended up with a sub-par set of qualifications and therefore squandered the chance to get into university for free.

Having recently been made redundant after working for 4 years (after a year of job hunting), I'm strongly considering giving university a chance. I'm aware that I've missed the deadline for this year; in truth it doesn't really bother me as long as I can get a plan together, but from what I can gather there are a couple of things that stand in my way.

The one that stands at the front is this: UCAS have recently dumped all recognition for the majority of my qualifications. Now as I said before, I'm under no illusions that this is a situation I could easily have not found myself in if I had applied myself, but I honestly didn't expect anything like that would happen. Therefore I honestly have no idea how I'd go about getting onto a course when the majority of my qualifications aren't even recognized. I guess I'm old enough to go as a mature student (22), but again I have no idea what the fuck the situation is in regards to that.

There's also the fact that I really have no idea what I would do as a course, but that's secondary.

That's the situation. Hopefully some of you can help me put my shit in order so I can actually get on with being a bad without having to worry about more important stuff first.

[indi]

Big ups for fixing the situation, or at least being willing to do that.

Obviously not at home in British education system, but a quick look-around brought me this:

If someone is doing qualifications that do not attract Tariff points, does that mean that they can't apply to HE?

No. Not all post-16 qualifications attract Tariff points. Likewise, not every university or college uses the Tariff for offer making. Minimum entry requirements for specific courses are at the discretion of the individual college or university. HE admissions staff take a wide range of factors into account in their admissions decisions. In 2010, 47% of applicants with qualifications not on the Tariff were offered places at universities and colleges

I think your best bet is to 'come up with' (it's the truth, innit?) with a good story, demonstrate motivation & show you can do this. There should be at least one institute willing to take a chance on you, especially if you really want it and can show this.

[Lachesis VII]

Also, not a UK resident, but I am a late-entry university student.

I went back to school at about 25. Was working in a law firm in a staff position, job I landed by complete accident after doing two miserable years in art school when I was 18. Decided that I had the aptitude for the industry and figured I'd pursue my JD. I worked my ass off at night school completing all of the requisite courses to transfer to a university, and I'm now one semester away from graduating summa cum laude from UC Berkeley, which is one of the best schools in the US. Starting law school this fall, just waiting to find out where I'll be accepted to decide where I'm going. I'd never have been able to do it if I hadn't learned a ton of skills related to work ethic due to the job I had prior to restarting school.

Bottom line is that if you apply yourself and are serious, you can leverage the fact that you're a little older and more mature into doing incredibly well for yourself. Most of the kids entering higher end universities, even the prestigious ones, are still just 18 year old kids. They're smart, sure, and motivated, but many of them have never really had to be accountable to anything other than their parents. Being an independent adult requires that you be accountable to yourself.

[duckduck]

I do some part time work at a UK university, but I'm not involved with admissions. While it is imposible to give a definite answer without knowing more details, I am sure you can get a place on a course if you are sufficiently interested. Motivated 'mature' people can make great students - admissions tutors know this.

So don't worry about getting in - instead find something that you really want to study. This is a good time to be doing it, aiming to start in October 2012. You need to be very sure that you are willing to work on something for three years. It is a lot of time and money. You need to research the subject, the universities and the eventual job prospects. Take the time to think about all the options and talk to people. Really the hardest person to convince should be yourself. If you find a course that you know will be right for you it won't be difficult to get a place.

[spm1138]

My understanding was that for mature students they are more likely to be a bit looser with the points requirements.

As you're now an adult and have life experience they may well be a bit less rigid about specific academic requirements.

I'd have a word with the admissions dept of wherever you're interested in studying and find out. Your local uni probably has a careers dept too who you could talk to.

If after looking into it they really won't take you now what you might consider doing is an OU course :

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080929091359AAJKXvO

This would help get you into university afterwards and would also ease you back into doing academic stuff.

I went back to uni at 25 and it was quite a mental gear shift after working for 4 years to go back to studying and writing essays.

Uni really requires you to be self starting and disciplined.

Something else to consider though. As you may have noticed the economy is completely in the shitter. If you're looking at doing a degree for your career then think really hard about which degree you're going to do and how it's supposed to help your career. Get good advice about this. Know what you're going to do afterwards.

I've got a decent degree in theory (2.1 BA Hons Sociology from Sheffield) and it's apparently absolutely fucking useless as regards getting a decent job goes.
Don't think you can just do anything and that it will help you. Britain is awash with unemployed and underemployed graduates.

[Sofia Roseburn]

Chatting to people this morning, I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to do English Lit. Leaves the board open in terms of career choice I guess.

duckduck, if you want to ask questions, fire away. It makes it easier to get stuff sorted out in my head.

[Smuggo]

The fact you are older and have 4 years working under your belt will probably help you in applying. However, if you have 4 years work experience i'd be a little dubious about how valuable adding a degree to that would be. I guess it depends if you want to carry on doing something similar to what you have been doing. Though I have a degree, it's kinda become meaningless to my job prospects after 5 years of working because my experience and contacts are what will get my employed now (though of course the degree helped me get that first job to start my career).

And if you are gonna do it these days, make as cheap as you possibly can. Live with your parents, get a part time job etc... because the cost of it now is absolutely ludicrous. Makes my £11k of student loan debt seem like peanuts.

[spm1138]

Chatting to people this morning, I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to do English Lit. Leaves the board open in terms of career choice I guess.

duckduck, if you want to ask questions, fire away. It makes it easier to get stuff sorted out in my head.

How is English Lit going to help your career?

It's not a rhetorical.

Do you have something specific in mind?

My sister did English Lit and while she does have a good job now English Lit didn't seem to open any specific doors for her.

[indi]

The dutch job market might be different from the UK one, but here employers are mighty interested in degrees. Not necessarily because you have learned something/anything useful, but because having 'the piece of paper' counts. Probably because you showed that you had the dedication/discipline/will to start something and finish it on the one hand, status - I suppose - on the other. It's never useless here.

With the economy being what it is, going back to school is actually not the worst choice. Economy being a cyclical thing, odds are that things are in a very different part of the cycle when you're done. Having said that, it's not a bad thing to take your time and talk/think it over. Since you got until late summer for that, it'll work out.

Editing to reply to spm1138:
I agree that something being useful to your career is important. On the other hand, if you don't like your course and then can't find willpower to finish 3 years (or more), that won't help either. I dropped out after a year of economics, not because I couldn't do it (I could do it asleep), but because it was boring as fuck. I then went on to study something that I at least liked and which has no bearing on any career except an academic one. I am a well paid project manager now, and even then the consultancy companies would have taken me on due to high grades & motivation, had I cared to pursue that then. Summary: not unimportant, but not as important as actually liking your course, if you ask me.

[Sofia Roseburn]

How is English Lit going to help your career?

It's not a rhetorical.

Do you have something specific in mind?

My sister did English Lit and while she does have a good job now English Lit didn't seem to open any specific doors for her.

I read a lot. As naive as that sounds literature has been a large part of my life, be it writing or even just understanding text. I'm contemplating/have been contemplating teaching since I was choosing what to do at college (and I would have gone down that route if not for circumstances outside of my control, but that's another story). It's a subject I love, and if I can pass along some of my passion for it to others, wherever in the world that may be, then I'll feel as though I've done something worthwhile.

[Sofia Roseburn]

The fact you are older and have 4 years working under your belt will probably help you in applying. However, if you have 4 years work experience i'd be a little dubious about how valuable adding a degree to that would be. I guess it depends if you want to carry on doing something similar to what you have been doing. Though I have a degree, it's kinda become meaningless to my job prospects after 5 years of working because my experience and contacts are what will get my employed now (though of course the degree helped me get that first job to start my career).

And if you are gonna do it these days, make as cheap as you possibly can. Live with your parents, get a part time job etc... because the cost of it now is absolutely ludicrous. Makes my £11k of student loan debt seem like peanuts.

I have four years experience in dispensing optics. I've come to the conclusion that I don't want any more. As for making it cheap, I'd definitely get a part time job although I wouldn't live at home. I physically can't (west coast of scotland, 3 hour train ride to Glasgow) and there's no room. There's also the fact that I'm really not part of my family any more, but that's just blarg.

[Roam]

English Lit is nowhere near as useless a degree as people make it out to be. Just be aware that a lot of English Lit is philosophy and cultural studies, not as many people seem to think "reading a book and saying what you liked about it".

Also, you're not getting out of the linguistic side of things.

[Sofia Roseburn]

English Lit is nowhere near as useless a degree as people make it out to be. Just be aware that a lot of English Lit is philosophy and cultural studies, not as many people seem to think "reading a book and saying what you liked about it".

Also, you're not getting out of the linguistic side of things.

Linguistics is half of literature anyway. Deriving meaning and emotional context from text requires an understanding of it. In regards to languages though, I'm tempted to take it with Japanese purely because I'm interested and it's a language I'd like to actually learn, although there is the prospect there to go teach abroad (not necessarily glorious nippon but still).

[Smuggo]

The dutch job market might be different from the UK one, but here employers are mighty interested in degrees. Not necessarily because you have learned something/anything useful, but because having 'the piece of paper' counts. Probably because you showed that you had the dedication/discipline/will to start something and finish it on the one hand, status - I suppose - on the other. It's never useless here.


Here I've found employers to be interested in you having a degree for entry-level stuff, but as you get more and more experience it becomes far less relevant. No one has ever actually asked for any physical proof of my degree, and now, while I do list it on my CV still, it would seem a bit odd if any prospective employer were to ask me about it in an interview as it's not really of any relevance to anything I do.

[indi]

Here I've found employers to be interested in you having a degree for entry-level stuff, but as you get more and more experience it becomes far less relevant. No one has ever actually asked for any physical proof of my degree, and now, while I do list it on my CV still, it would seem a bit odd if any prospective employer were to ask me about it in an interview as it's not really of any relevance to anything I do.

The more relevant work experience you get, the more this is true. At the same time, a person holding a Master's here will often have a small advantage over one who doesn't. Please note that I personally don't agree with this, btw. Should be judged per person and his/her qualifications overall, including personality and drive. Sofia is in early 20s though, iirc - so it might still be relevant for him.

It's not the end of the world if you don't have a degree. One of my friends climbed the corporate ladder without it. He did, however, admit to me at one point that it had taken him far longer without the degree and that the amount of time it took was a disappointment.

[Smuggo]

TBH I think I could easily have got away without a degree by simply lying and saying I did have one.

[Rudolf Miller]

As yourself two questions. Could the degree I get be used in A) Computer tech/IT or B) Healthcare? If answer is yes, you've got at least a decent shot at getting work.

That said, I'm not UK

[Lancehot]

Don't do a humanities degree unless you are exceptionally intelligent or want to be a teacher.

Also, if you don't like the idea of being surrounded by hundreds/thousands of young people who have no real concept of independent learning & are only there because they have spent the last 5+years being told their is no alternative, so they piss away their student loans & degrees while trying to figure out why they're there (not that the uni cares either way so long as they keep paying the fees), you might be better with the OU.

[Mythago]

If you haven't already studied then you should still be supported by the Student Loans Company (or go for free if you apply in Scotland with Scottish parents). I reapplied to University last year as a mature (hurr 23) student with two years of loans already taken from a failed degree. This year I have only gotten maintainence loan, but I am hopeful that for the next two years I will get the tution fee covered as well. As for the application I went through UCAS with decent A-Levels, but I'm sure if you contact the university you are interested in, and ask them what they suggest they'll give some good advice. If there is no rush, it is perhaps best waiting until a bit later in the year as they are probably swamped with enquiries at the moment.

[Skjordr Longfang]

I would strongly advise to decide what it is you want to do with the rest of you life, before picking a course and hoping it'll be useful. What with the fees increase (up to 9000 a year) You best be damned sure you want to spend all that money on something that will be useful in the long term, because you'll be paying it off for a long time. English Lit sure, if you want to become a writer of some description, but even then just writing a lot will also improve you skills. What I'm trying to say is, don't spend vast amounts of money on something you can teach yourself, unless its going to benefit you later in life.

But then thats coming from someone who's just finishing up a 7 year degree, and doesn't particularly want to work in the field anymore.

[Masson]

I'm currently in my second year at uni; straight from A level and have a few coursemates who were in your position 2 years ago.

They all went through the foundation programme (year zero) which is essentially A levels condensed into one year, very easy stuff from the sounds of it and they're guaranteed a placement in first year aslong as they pass the exams. All of them said the work was very very easy aslong as you put the effort in; turning up at lectures, seminars etc. Most of them got student finance and also applied for a bunch of bursaries and grants offered by the universities themselves.

Anyway it's great that you're looking at getting back into education, and the right degree can really help in interviews for career jobs.

[Djan Seriy Anaplian]

As a degree English lit grads tend to either go into Law (via conversion GDL), Journalism (lol), Marketing/Advertisement, Recruitment or Teaching. Obviously the degree isn't practical but that doesn't mean you can't get a decent job out of it, said decent job will be much easier if the caliber of uni you go to is good.
Therefore, i suggest you get some good a-levels (AAB or better) which isn't difficult through teach-yourself courses and apply in a year or two.

There is no point in subjecting yourself to crippling debt unless it's from a decent institution or a practical course, especially as a mature student - you will get fuck all bang for your buck.

Without decent a-levels any degree worth the paper its written on will not be available to you.

EDIT - you seem like a cogent, intelligent person, hence my suggestion. At your stage most people should be directed down a practical course route; you'd probably be doing yourself a disservice if you went to a shite uni just so you can earn a degree.


EDIT 2 - If you're interested in Japanese then message me, i studied at SOAS which has arguably the best Japanese language teaching in the country and entry requirements whilst steep are unusual in that they tend to interview any mature students with work experience.

[Ralara]

Chatting to people this morning, I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to do English Lit. Leaves the board open in terms of career choice I guess.

duckduck, if you want to ask questions, fire away. It makes it easier to get stuff sorted out in my head.

hit me up tomorrow evening, i am most interested in the results you come up with.

[Lachesis VII]

Don't do a humanities degree unless you are exceptionally intelligent or want to be a teacher.


Or if you want to be a lawyer.

[firefoxx80]

Work at uni, not in admissions.

Life experience does carry some weight when applying to a university, obviously contextual experience is best (worked in a library, for example), but any experience will help. Bear in mind that you have a personal statement which you can use to explain your life thus far.

As others have mentioned, there's also universities who provide foundation years.

Finally, what's stopping you going back to college as a mature student and rushing your way through an a-level or two in English?

[Hast]

Chatting to people this morning, I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to do English Lit. Leaves the board open in terms of career choice I guess.

duckduck, if you want to ask questions, fire away. It makes it easier to get stuff sorted out in my head.

Sofia Roseburn; quiet, well mannered librarian by day; blood crazed, psychotic demigod by night.

[F*** My Aunt Rita]

Don't know a damn thing about the UK tertiary education system, but I think you should reconsider English lit. Unless you're awesome and plan on doing something useful post-tertiary.

Edit:

To be more useful to this thread, you shouldn't go back to school and spend the money/time without a clearer picture of where you want to end up. Yeah, I know that's difficult but speaking from my experience, do whatever the fuck you want and wing it until you find something you hate the least.

[kzig]

English Literature certainly looks good to employers as far as your communications skills are concerned, but it doesn't say much about your numeracy, commercial awareness or problem-solving ability. What sort of jobs are you likely to be looking for after you graduate? Also, have you considered taking a combined arts / joint honours degree? You don't necessarily have to choose between Japanese and English literature if you're interested in both, and the extra language could potentially be a very valuable asset.

Naturally, as an MMath I'm biased, so I might as well join the rest of the crowd recommending some sort of science, assuming that there's at least one subject you're interested in.

[Ophichius]

http://threepanelsoul.com/2011/05/30/on-re-education/

In a more serious light, nthing the comments that you should have some idea of what career you would like to pursue and how your uni degree will help with that career before jumping into it.

-O

[Klesk]

Mature student here (26) I just got in on the old fees scheme. I applied for electrical engineering with no A levels and had to do a foundation year, its basically doing the A levels I missed all in one year.
Its tough going but it might be an option for you if the uni's you apply for run such a thing.

Edit: Saw this was mentioned above.

[Joe Appleby]

Student, 27 but done with a Masters in English (Lit and Linguistics), History and Education (rather a Minor) in the Summer. About the age, well, Germany tends to keep you in school for a while, then follow with a long Uni course and in between I had to take a break fro medical reasons.
About studying English Lit, the first thing you'll be told is no one gives a flying fuck if you liked it. You have to be able to analyze why something is worthy of attention, no matter how fucking obscure and bad it is. Linguistics then will destroy all interest you had in language studies ever, at least it did for me. People that study with me fall in one of two categories: Linguists or Literature types. It is either or, no exceptions, and we have to do both and at our department there is no rivalry between the two sections. We even have courses touching both subjects, such as metaphors in literature. Yet every student here is either a linguist or a literature student. So be prepared to hate a part of your studies. Also have fun hating prescriptive grammar wankers even more.

Over all, I love my subjects a lot. I just hate linguistics with a fiery passion.

Career choices are limited in Germany, because as the Dutch, we just fucking love degrees, and you can only do the job you have a degree for. If you work in something you haven't gotten a degree in, you will be viewed as someone special and out of the ordinary. Annoys me, as I see the skills I picked up in Uni outside of historical knowledge and a pretty decent command of English as incredibly useful. Analytical skills, communication in general, documentation, proper writing skills, ability to freaking teach, self organization (sort of ;)) and due to my engagement in student representative councils etc a deep understanding of bureaucratic structures and how to work them in my favor, none of these would actually matter to most companies, as I did not study what their narrow mindedness sees as necessary for their jobs.

But I am not too bitter about that, teaching is an interesting and fun profession and offers some nice career options later on, be it either academia, school administration, board of education work at any level from county to country. As a teacher you are already part of the system and can work your way up. My mother is a teacher and has been teaching for the past years as only 50% of her job, the rest was consulting schools on violence prevention, which had her going to conferences not just in the Germany and Austria, but also Israel. She was offered a post in academia as well as the state's education department, but she declined as she will retire very soon anyways.

Sofia, if you want to become a teacher, please at the very least do an internship at a school to see if it is your cup of tea. I don't know if there are programs available that offer a proper school internship. Those are rare in Germany already, so lets just assume there are none. Find a school that lets you for about 4 weeks be there. If the school boards / administrative bodies say no, talk to the schools' principals directly, or go to your old school. I have yet to find a teacher not happy about people taking up the trade. The first two weeks you should be only watching, both students and teachers. Then you can start taking up a more active role, maybe teach a lesson or two. I am glad to offer you some help, especially during the first two weeks watching. I found that having a guideline for what to watch out for helps a lot.
The internship is important so you get a feel if you can do it. I know many fellow students who decided to ditch their teaching course after their first internship. One thing though: being scared shitless prior to your first lesson of teaching is normal. My mother went so far as to say, if you are not, you shouldn't become a teacher. Something would be very wrong with you.

EDIT: Holy crap, wall of text. TL/DR: English lit is more taxing than you might think. Teaching is awesome, try it out in an internship. I will help.

[Lallante]

Don't do English Lit at a shit uni. If its not Russel Group its basically pointless.

This goes for all humanities.

[FatFreddy]

Don't do English Lit at a shit uni. If its not Russel Group its basically pointless.

This goes for all humanities.

This goes for all studies, no? ;)

/smartass

[Djan Seriy Anaplian]

Don't do English Lit at a shit uni. If its not Russel Group its basically pointless.

This goes for all humanities.

This goes for all studies, no? ;)

/smartass

Pretty much, as a mature student the debt just isn't worth it; practically speaking.

[Tsubutai]

When you say UCAS no longer recognize your qualifications, what exactly do you mean - are they just 'old' A-levels or something more unusual? My curiosity aside, your best bet is to call UCAS and/or the institutions/departments you're interested in and ask them how your qualifications would be considered - they'll be able to give you a much more well-informed response than a bunch of internet randoms.

I'll also echo the concerns about doing English Lit. at a less-than-stellar uni unless you're secretly swimming in cash and just want the education or piece of paper for their own sake.



Here I've found employers to be interested in you having a degree for entry-level stuff, but as you get more and more experience it becomes far less relevant. No one has ever actually asked for any physical proof of my degree, and now, while I do list it on my CV still, it would seem a bit odd if any prospective employer were to ask me about it in an interview as it's not really of any relevance to anything I do.
As a rule, it becomes less relevant only inasmuch as it's taken for granted that anyone applying for a senior position will have one and therefore isn't worth bringing up in an interview. I suspect that you'd get a question about it if you went for a senior position and didn't have a line on your CV/resumee stating your uni/course/grade...

[Chrien]

I returned to finish my degree last year, I'm studying a Bachelor of Arts (Politics/History double major). I had completed 1 years worth of subjects in 2003. I was 26 when I went back, so by the time I'm done I'll be turning 28. I'm currently applying for graduate programs with various companies / civl service depts for next year whilst keeping my options open for honours if I choose to go down that route. The university I'm attending isn't top tier in Australia, its more middle of the road (but then Australia doesn't really have any bad universities). This hasn't hampered my job prospects in anyway.

Being an older student I found the actual uni lifestyle very rewarding, challenging at times but at the same stage I'm far more motivated than most students who are just there because its what they were told was next. You will have picked up a ton of skills that will help you in your studies but you need to be motivated/passionate about your degree, if you don't have that I'd suggest not returning. You need to want to go back, not just go back to uni because you don't know what else to do. If you find that motivation you are going to find that you will be much better at time management, communication and focus than most students. So I'd support what others have said about making sure your motivations are solid before reapplying and having a fair idea of where you want to be after your degree.

As for the worthiness of degrees, I can't comment on the UK context but my general opinion is that at least in Humanities its not the content that you learn that its important. Its the transferrable skills that a good student will learn. The ability to think critically and analytically is a huge part of what employers want humanities students to be able to demonstrate to them. This is just one example of a transferrable skill that a degree will teach you. You may already posses the skills but employers aren't going to take you at your word, the piece of paper is proof.

[Phrixus Zephyr]

Do an access course at college. Basically amounts to 2 years of A-levels into 1 year and uni's love people who come from access courses because they, on average, have a course completion rate 30% higher than those who start uni at 18. I'm doing access now (Biology with a side of everything else) and i know Laythun did access to get himself into uni too (something IT).