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Spawinte
April 13 2011, 12:31:56 PM
So early versions have now leaked out. Any of our resident devs tried it yet? Anybody willing to torrent it and let us know?

Helen
April 13 2011, 12:37:22 PM
I'll get all over this like a fat kid with cake. :monocledowns:

whispous
April 13 2011, 12:40:06 PM
It had better have a new filesystem

ThonEney
April 13 2011, 12:57:18 PM
It had better have a new filesystem
Other than this i don't see how they can improve a lot being microsoft and all. Any ideas on what the new features are?

Loganbacca
April 13 2011, 01:11:10 PM
App store, inbuilt pdf reader, colour coordinated desktop (matches aero borders to wallpaper), Office '07 ribbon for explorer, some retarded bubble-like UI (I assume for tablets) and cloud stuff are some of the features I've heard of.

I for one am going to warily poke it with a long stick before I let it anywhere near my PC.

cillisia
April 13 2011, 01:47:30 PM
it also has the same codename as my girlfriend

Amantus
April 13 2011, 02:28:59 PM
Office '07 ribbon for explorer


Jesus christ. LOL NO THANKS.

whispous
April 13 2011, 03:22:03 PM
it also has the same codename as my girlfriend


What's the codename for win8?

Varicose Brains
April 13 2011, 04:02:19 PM
it also has the same codename as my girlfriend

FAT32?

Helen
April 13 2011, 04:08:42 PM
Midori?

whispous
April 13 2011, 04:36:20 PM
Bitch

Tools
April 13 2011, 04:44:30 PM
Better have a more sensible permissions/UAC system. That powershell doesn't have a sudo function blows my mind. That I can't open a file outside my home area with write permissions from an explorer window irritates the crap out of me.

Devec
April 13 2011, 07:11:24 PM
So is this going to be a filler again until they can bring out a new one a few years after which is worth upgrading to?

Raimo
April 13 2011, 07:53:20 PM
Office '07 ribbon for explorer


Jesus christ. LOL NO THANKS.

This. Most idiotic UI "development" ever

lt
April 13 2011, 09:47:21 PM
Office '07 ribbon for explorer


Jesus christ. LOL NO THANKS.

This. Most idiotic UI "development" ever
IExplorer or the OSExplorer?

Loganbacca
April 14 2011, 12:21:01 AM
IExplorer or the OSExplorer?
OSExplorer:

http://cdn.windows8news.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/windows-8-explorer.jpg


Oh yea, and new login screen:

http://cdn3.windows8news.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/win8_welcome_m3.jpg

The background is apparently changeable, and no, not an April fools joke

Rudolf Miller
April 14 2011, 12:32:39 AM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

RazoR
April 14 2011, 03:18:49 AM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.

Takon Orlani
April 14 2011, 03:20:42 AM
Office '07 ribbon for explorer


Jesus christ. LOL NO THANKS.

Mimiru
April 14 2011, 03:25:23 AM
http://i.imgur.com/yJIBx.jpg

besides, ribbon is fine. Learn2understand what you're doing, not rote memorization of clicking 124 pixels to the right to save.

walrus
April 14 2011, 04:43:54 AM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.
Pretty much this tbh, the best OS ive used a lot.

RazoR
April 14 2011, 08:47:21 AM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.Pretty much this tbh, the best OS ive used a lot.http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/112/a/9/The_Creation_of_Brofist_by_N30NZombie.jpg

Stoffl
April 14 2011, 10:03:32 AM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

You missed Win2k Sp2/3, which was pretty fucking epic, while vanilla XP was terrible.

Stoffl
April 14 2011, 10:04:57 AM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.

Win7 XP mode(aka the free xp prof. virtual pc image) is ok for legacy games. :)

omeg
April 14 2011, 10:13:03 AM
2k long time user checking in.

SilentWinter
April 14 2011, 10:35:40 AM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.
pretty much this, i raged hard when i realized that my brand new graphic card would not have work on my win2k pc, and i think the same will happen with XP

Rudolf Miller
April 14 2011, 11:29:50 AM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.

Win7 XP mode(aka the free xp prof. virtual pc image) is ok for legacy games. :)

Not always. Diablo II plays on my Win7 partition, but it seriously fucks with my video drivers in the process. Upon exit, a lot of things video related either are broken or don't work well. A restart is pretty much required.

XenosisReaper
April 14 2011, 11:42:11 AM
App store, No.

Inbuilt pdf reader, About damn time.

colour coordinated desktop (matches aero borders to wallpaper), Care?

Office '07 ribbon for explorer, FUCK NO KILL IT

some retarded bubble-like UI (I assume for tablets) Care? (if that weird UI is on everything whether or not using a tablet, then FUCK NO KILL IT)

and cloud stuff are some of the features I've heard of. Care?

Loganbacca
April 14 2011, 01:03:08 PM
App store, No.

Inbuilt pdf reader, About damn time.

colour coordinated desktop (matches aero borders to wallpaper), Care?

Office '07 ribbon for explorer, FUCK NO KILL IT

some retarded bubble-like UI (I assume for tablets) Care? (if that weird UI is on everything whether or not using a tablet, then FUCK NO KILL IT)

and cloud stuff are some of the features I've heard of. Care?


Yea, that's pretty much my own personal response to those.
Only other stuff I've heard of is faster install times (under 10 mins), and there's apparently a feature that can "hard reset" windows to the default install state in a couple of minutes.

Question is, will the fast install be due to a thin installer that installs everything else as it's needed off the net? or have they really slimmed down and trimmed off all the crap?

Tools
April 14 2011, 01:14:45 PM
I am all for the ribbon on explorer. The current UI is pretty crappy and the ribbon is actually pretty good once you stop :bittervet:ing about it.

Stoffl
April 14 2011, 02:11:20 PM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.

Win7 XP mode(aka the free xp prof. virtual pc image) is ok for legacy games. :)

Not always. Diablo II plays on my Win7 partition, but it seriously fucks with my video drivers in the process. Upon exit, a lot of things video related either are broken or don't work well. A restart is pretty much required.

A game running in a virtual machine fucks with your win7 video drivers ? :psyduck:

Or as in, you've got to restart the virtual machine when you exit Diablo II.

Pattern
April 14 2011, 03:07:24 PM
Looks like the plan is to unify (if not completely, partially) the experience between windows phone and the desktop OS. ATM people probably don't see windows phone as "windows" - this visual push may be a change to remedy this as PC sales start to slump.

Rudolf Miller
April 14 2011, 03:36:43 PM
I'd still be sitting on 2k if it wasn't for game compatibility. Which is p. shit on 7 as i hear.

Win7 XP mode(aka the free xp prof. virtual pc image) is ok for legacy games. :)

Not always. Diablo II plays on my Win7 partition, but it seriously fucks with my video drivers in the process. Upon exit, a lot of things video related either are broken or don't work well. A restart is pretty much required.

A game running in a virtual machine fucks with your win7 video drivers ? :psyduck:

Or as in, you've got to restart the virtual machine when you exit Diablo II.

Not running full VM, just XP SP2 compatibility mode. I think CCC takes offense to it (or possibly the ages old standards diablo II asks for)

Stoffl
April 14 2011, 04:18:03 PM
Right. :)

Windows 7 XP Mode is a builtin MS virtualPC that supports seamless fullscreen and MS supplies the necessary windows XP Prof. image free of charge.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtua ... nload.aspx (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx)

orcane
April 14 2011, 07:52:37 PM
Office '07 ribbon for explorer


Jesus christ. LOL NO THANKS.
Considering how terrible the Vista/7 explorer is, that would be about over 9000 times better. Will take some getting used to (I still can't find stuff in Excel '10 after working with the old UI for a bajillion years), but they can't really make the OSexplorer worse than it is right now. Or maybe they can :psyccp:

DAN13L
April 14 2011, 08:03:17 PM
Office '07 ribbon for explorer


Jesus christ. LOL NO THANKS.
Considering how terrible the Vista/7 explorer is, that would be about over 9000 times better. Will take some getting used to (I still can't find stuff in Excel '10 after working with the old UI for a bajillion years), but they can't really make the OSexplorer worse than it is right now. Or maybe they can :psyccp:

I don't hate the Win7 explorer, it's fairly easy to use, some slight annoyances but meh.
I, however, would HATE the ribbon-thing from office to be implemented into here as I genuinely can't stand the ribbons in office, they drive me mad. I want my old office '03 back.

Mimiru
April 15 2011, 01:16:54 AM
God damn you people are awful? fucking 2k? XP?


awful. awful. awful.

Windows 7 and 2008 R2 for life (untill windows 8 and server 2012)

RazoR
April 15 2011, 01:23:45 AM
God damn you people are awful? fucking 2k? XP?


awful. awful. awful.

Windows 7 and 2008 R2 for life (untill windows 8 and server 2012)At least we aren't gay~~~

Seriously, what is so exciting about 7 besides pretty design and dx10+?

Rudolf Miller
April 15 2011, 02:18:45 PM
God damn you people are awful? fucking 2k? XP?


awful. awful. awful.

Windows 7 and 2008 R2 for life (untill windows 8 and server 2012)At least we aren't gay~~~

Seriously, what is so exciting about 7 besides pretty design and dx10+?

It worked out of the box for one.... It's a real accomplishment for microsoft to deliver something working right out of the box.

Loganbacca
April 15 2011, 02:39:24 PM
It worked out of the box for one.... It's a real accomplishment for microsoft to deliver something working right out of the box.
This is actually true, to be honest I haven't had that many problems running 7, and pretty much no problems since running it on my new pc.

Kaylana Syi
April 15 2011, 04:12:46 PM
God damn you people are awful? fucking 2k? XP?


awful. awful. awful.

Windows 7 and 2008 R2 for life (untill windows 8 and server 2012)At least we aren't gay~~~

Seriously, what is so exciting about 7 besides pretty design and dx10+?

It is fast, has a more modern HAL than OS X or Linux, damn near re-creates the Linux/Mac/BSD file placement and security, has a smart GUI that is more seamless than Vista's variant, has h.264 support out the box in both 32 and 64bit versions and has a modern sound interface.

There isn't much to not like about Windows 7 when you run programs not built in the basement of some idiot. Also, how the hell are people having trouble with Diablo II on Windows 7? It runs fine here. I am using Nvidia though, not AMD. So obviously the OS isn't at fault here.

Compared to OS X and Ubuntu 10.10, Windows 7 is probably the better choice for every day users. Hell the only reason why I am still kicking my iMac is for command line tools, programming tools support (native git/mercurial/mongodb), 24bit LCD built in and Colloquy. I'd have sold the thing off by now and stuck to my Win7 box otherwise.

whispous
April 15 2011, 07:44:37 PM
God damn you people are awful? fucking 2k? XP?


awful. awful. awful.

Windows 7 and 2008 R2 for life (untill windows 8 and server 2012)At least we aren't gay~~~

Seriously, what is so exciting about 7 besides pretty design and dx10+?

It is fast, has a more modern HAL than OS X or Linux, damn near re-creates the Linux/Mac/BSD file placement and security, has a smart GUI that is more seamless than Vista's variant, has h.264 support out the box in both 32 and 64bit versions and has a modern sound interface.

There isn't much to not like about Windows 7 when you run programs not built in the basement of some idiot. Also, how the hell are people having trouble with Diablo II on Windows 7? It runs fine here. I am using Nvidia though, not AMD. So obviously the OS isn't at fault here.

Compared to OS X and Ubuntu 10.10, Windows 7 is probably the better choice for every day users. Hell the only reason why I am still kicking my iMac is for command line tools, programming tools support (native git/mercurial/mongodb), 24bit LCD built in and Colloquy. I'd have sold the thing off by now and stuck to my Win7 box otherwise.


ITT razer gets pwned.

Typical russian duct tape scrub.

RazoR
April 15 2011, 07:55:33 PM
Typical russian duct tape scrub.As if it is something bad. Minmatar power!

/me leans back with AK at the knee as the nukes 'splode

lt
April 17 2011, 08:16:18 PM
It worked out of the box for one.... It's a real accomplishment for microsoft to deliver something working right out of the box.
This is actually true, to be honest I haven't had that many problems running 7, and pretty much no problems since running it on my new pc.


Yes, this was a very nice surprise when I installed it.

Devec
April 17 2011, 08:55:36 PM
I can semi get the whole bitching about the ribbon the main fault lays there that any inexperienced user has no clue as to what to press, hell it is even more daunting than having a program with the old all options under tabs style because you are instantly bombarded by features which previously used to hide in little submenu's making the menu's compact.

The ribbon styled menu's can be executed quite well if the designers have an idea who and what they are designing it for and not just betting on all features must be represented and ooooh pretty.

The best ribbon designed menu that is actually practical is the one found in autodesk's products (since the 2010 versions though). The text clearly states what the buttons do, unnecessary bloated options are hidden behind tabs and they didn't try to cut corners on spacing just to fit everything in. Windows could learn from these people. Click here if you have no idea what I am talking about (http://communities.autodesk.com/ama/orig/news_images//autodesk_inventor_lt-243141-1243839529.jpeg)

EntroX
April 18 2011, 02:41:16 AM
God damn you people are awful? fucking 2k? XP?


awful. awful. awful.

Windows 7 and 2008 R2 for life (untill windows 8 and server 2012)

what he said.

Loganbacca
April 18 2011, 12:00:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjYbDr23KlQ

Preview of new stuff; login screen + quick account access thing that various Linux distros pretty much already have

FourFiftyFour
April 18 2011, 10:13:42 PM
Predicting Win 8=Fail 8

sshagent
April 19 2011, 11:12:58 AM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

This pretty much.
I'm not touching Win8 ( bar it being on a pc/craptop i buy ). Waiting on Win9 :D

Mimiru
April 22 2011, 04:11:35 AM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

This pretty much.
I'm not touching Win8 ( bar it being on a pc/craptop i buy ). Waiting on Win9 :D

windows 8 was already released.

its called windows 2008 R2 :nostradamus:

Cassiuss
April 24 2011, 05:56:44 PM
I think M$ learned a valuable lesson with Windows Vista, they anticipated many things incorrectly with that operating system and addressed those subtly in WIN7. I was working for a call centre when we had to support Vista, it was such a clusterfuck I wouldnt even know where to begin.

I think WIN8 wont be anything but a product improvement on win7, same kernel but a load of internals that get some much needed love.

Win8 is going to be amazing from what I've read.

Thoughts?

Bombcrater
April 24 2011, 11:10:53 PM
Vista wasn't a bad design, just far too ambitious. MS tried to improve almost every aspect of the OS in relation to XP on a release schedule that wasn't anywhere near long enough. Vista SP2 is a very solid OS, it's what the original Vista release would have been if it had been given enough time in the oven.

And of course the obvious side-effect of Vista being so ambitious was the confusion of people upgrading from XP and being faced with what amounted to a completely alien OS. Almost none of the complaints I heard about Vista from XP users were original, all the same things were said during the 3.1/95 transition. If Win 8 alters the Vista/Win 7 interface in any major way we'll get the same complaints again.

Namoo
April 25 2011, 01:21:26 AM
It worked out of the box for one.... It's a real accomplishment for microsoft to deliver something working right out of the box.
This is actually true, to be honest I haven't had that many problems running 7, and pretty much no problems since running it on my new pc.

You can't deny that 7 is an absolute godsend for drivers, installed it on no end of machines from shitty 10 year old laptops to brand new builds and I have only ever had to manually install and search for two, yes TWO, drivers. A turnaround from days of searching for drivers when you reinstalled xp or in vistas case looking for drivers which don't exist.

Omega Supreme
April 25 2011, 07:02:53 AM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

The fact you called Win 95 good is suspicious.

Also you forgot Win 95 SE if it's not been mentioned.

Rudolf Miller
April 25 2011, 11:23:54 AM
I was 7 when win95 came out and my family was trying to figure out if we could get it to run on an enhanced 386 (from win3.1). My memory over which edition we were trying to install might be hazy :P

Cassiuss
April 25 2011, 05:48:50 PM
[quote="Rudolf Miller":7qp90jl0]Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

The fact you called Win 95 good is suspicious.

Also you forgot Win 95 SE if it's not been mentioned.[/quote:7qp90jl0]

Forget second editions, Windows 2k isn't there either, but who am I nitpick.

I disagree with win98 being terrible, compared to 95 it was fast and brilliant. Its what made Microsoft, well Microsoft. Windows 98 was "thee" operating system for about 5-7 years. The Windows XP of its time.

As for Windows Vista SP2, Which my girlfriend users on her laptop is still problematic as hell. The filecopy and unintuitive UAC is the worst ever.
Thank god both were addressed in WIN7

Omega Supreme
April 25 2011, 11:08:54 PM
Actually I meant Win 98 SE on my last post, only now noticed.

Win 98 SE was sweet, it's what I had on my first personal computer (that was directly mine and not a handmedown) before my next had XP then Vista. And now glorious Win 7.

cillisia
April 26 2011, 02:05:41 PM
Midori?

yes

lol should have checked back on this thread earlier

thebomby
April 30 2011, 01:05:44 AM
besides, ribbon is fine. Learn2understand what you're doing, not rote memorization of clicking 124 pixels to the right to save.
This attitude is what will kill Microsoft in the end. Microsoft is still fucking about with complex GUI operations while Apple has gone from nearly dead to being a bigger company in just over a decade just by making stuff simple enough for non tech users to appreciate. 99% of the world's population have no interest in learning how some retarded GUI operation works. When Microsoft understands that, they'll be on the road to recovery. Acting like you're somehow a more valuable human being because you can use Windows only makes you look a dick to most people.*

* I admin about 45 Mac users daily at work. I really hate them and their fucking attitude, which is even worse than Micronerds, but I have to admit that the Macs are just easier to use and less full of useless, clunky shit than Windows is. Windows 7 is an enormous improvement, but it's not enough to save Microsoft's bacon.

orcane
April 30 2011, 01:31:12 AM
The attitude that's wrong is the whole "hurr durr if you don't get along with it you just don't understand(TM) what you're doing, I R bettar than thou" thing, but regarding the ribbons, I don't think they are actually hard to work with, unless you're used to where item X was in submenu Y or because you icon A for ability B was in roughly the same spot for 20 years.

What annoys me more about them (really the whole recent Microsoft UI philosophy) is that there's no option once they decide that their new, shiny UI ideas are exactly what you should want. Crap like "personalized" menus came with the option to turn them off. Ribbons don't, and I can see why some people have issues adapting to them. But in general I think the ribbon is actually making Microsoft products easier to use for Everyday Joe who doesn't sit behind Excel or in Windows config dialogues all day long.

TimMc
April 30 2011, 03:13:24 AM
derp I was planning on moving up from lolvista to 7 in a month or two. Should I wait for 8 or just carry on? Can't say the idea of ribbon crap is making the idea appealing.

Vortex
April 30 2011, 07:08:54 AM
Get 7, its a massive improvement over vista and you won't regret it.

Aramendel
May 1 2011, 11:33:34 AM
This attitude is what will kill Microsoft in the end. Microsoft is still fucking about with complex GUI operations while Apple has gone from nearly dead to being a bigger company in just over a decade just by making stuff simple enough for non tech users to appreciate.

Not exactly. The by far biggest reason for their rise in the last decade is because they diversified from PC only to the mobile music device market, then to mp3 market and then to the smartphone (+app) and eventually tablet market. Their actual PC market isn't really growing by any real amounts.


Get 7, its a massive improvement over vista and you won't regret it.

Seconding. If you come from Vista Win7 seems at the beginning almost identical in look and feel, but its lighter, smoother. You feel like you suddenly lost 20 pounds.

Frug
May 5 2011, 07:38:30 PM
The attitude that's wrong is the whole "hurr durr if you don't get along with it you just don't understand(TM) what you're doing, I R bettar than thou" thing, but regarding the ribbons, I don't think they are actually hard to work with, unless you're used to where item X was in submenu Y or because you icon A for ability B was in roughly the same spot for 20 years.

What annoys me more about them (really the whole recent Microsoft UI philosophy) is that there's no option once they decide that their new, shiny UI ideas are exactly what you should want. Crap like "personalized" menus came with the option to turn them off. Ribbons don't, and I can see why some people have issues adapting to them. But in general I think the ribbon is actually making Microsoft products easier to use for Everyday Joe who doesn't sit behind Excel or in Windows config dialogues all day long.
IF it ain't broke, don't fix it. We should all be using dvorak keyboards too but that ain't happening.
Anyway I heard the stupid ribbon thing was an option and I suspect they will let you turn it off.

I never use office (open office if I need to touch that stuff) so i have no experience with "ribbon" but it looks hideous from the screenshots, and like it takes up more vertical screen space. No thanks.

And windows 7 is the best OS i've ever used. To make me happy, 8 would just improve on it, add customization, reduce load, and make it easier for me to manage my motherfucking sound devices because holy shit it's totally retarded in that area.

But that'll never happen. Predicting it will be some useless crap with more crap mimicking phones and some shitty app store that's no better than the games folder in windows 7.

PS the win7 games folder has got to be one of the stupidest most useless things they did with this os.

Tellenta
May 6 2011, 05:17:13 PM
besides, ribbon is fine. Learn2understand what you're doing, not rote memorization of clicking 124 pixels to the right to save.
This attitude is what will kill Microsoft in the end. Microsoft is still fucking about with complex GUI operations while Apple has gone from nearly dead to being a bigger company in just over a decade just by making stuff simple enough for non tech users to appreciate. 99% of the world's population have no interest in learning how some retarded GUI operation works. When Microsoft understands that, they'll be on the road to recovery. Acting like you're somehow a more valuable human being because you can use Windows only makes you look a dick to most people.*

* I admin about 45 Mac users daily at work. I really hate them and their fucking attitude, which is even worse than Micronerds, but I have to admit that the Macs are just easier to use and less full of useless, clunky shit than Windows is. Windows 7 is an enormous improvement, but it's not enough to save Microsoft's bacon.

Oddly enough it's Apples attitude towards their products that makes me want to stick with my anything but apple attitude. I'm not a big fan of their modern day 'owing your soul to the company store' attitude.

Rudolf Miller
May 6 2011, 06:09:35 PM
besides, ribbon is fine. Learn2understand what you're doing, not rote memorization of clicking 124 pixels to the right to save.
This attitude is what will kill Microsoft in the end. Microsoft is still fucking about with complex GUI operations while Apple has gone from nearly dead to being a bigger company in just over a decade just by making stuff simple enough for non tech users to appreciate. 99% of the world's population have no interest in learning how some retarded GUI operation works. When Microsoft understands that, they'll be on the road to recovery. Acting like you're somehow a more valuable human being because you can use Windows only makes you look a dick to most people.*

* I admin about 45 Mac users daily at work. I really hate them and their fucking attitude, which is even worse than Micronerds, but I have to admit that the Macs are just easier to use and less full of useless, clunky shit than Windows is. Windows 7 is an enormous improvement, but it's not enough to save Microsoft's bacon.

Oddly enough it's Apples attitude towards their products that makes me want to stick with my anything but apple attitude. I'm not a big fan of their modern day 'owing your soul to the company store' attitude.

Basically this. And one day, because Mac attracts the lowest common denominator of user with the highest level of "bad shit won't happen to me because my apple product is this good" will eventually reap profit for those looking to abuse iOS and OSX

Mimiru
June 2 2011, 03:23:53 AM
[youtube:1p1tmwem]p92QfWOw88I[/youtube:1p1tmwem]


Engadget posted:

We're live from Microsoft Windows president Steven Sinofsky's keynote at D9, and there's something rather exciting on stage -- a pair of experimental Windows 8 dev boards running an OS that looks very much like Windows Phone 7's Metro UI. All Things D actually sat down with the man earlier today and got a sneak peek at what to expect starting with the live tiled screen you see above -- and yes, like Windows Phone 7, this OS is designed for touch.

There'll be two kinds of applications for Windows 8, one that runs in a traditional desktop, and the other pseudo-mobile apps based on HTML5 and Javascript, but both environments -- rather, the entire OS -- have been designed from the ground up for touchscreen use. Keyboard and mouse will still be options for both sets of programs, but there are multiple virtual sets of keys for different form factors, including a split keyboard for vertical slate use. Multitasking is simply a matter of swiping running apps into the center of the screen, and you can pull windows partway to "snap" them in place alongside other windows -- even mixing and matching traditional desktop programs with web apps simultaneously (like Twitter alongside your spreadsheet). There's a new version of Internet Explorer 10 (which runs Silverlight) and an app store built into the touchscreen interface, along with integrated services like Office 365. Microsoft says the new OS will run on laptops, tablets and desktops when it appears -- whenever that might be.

All Things D didn't have any details on when we'll get pricing or availability, but we're looking at some Intel Atom-based demo units on stage right now, and Microsoft says it will have ARM designs (the OS will support NVIDIA, TI and Qualcomm) viewable on the Computex show floor, and more will be revealed at the Build Windows developer conference in September. We should note that "Windows 8" is just a codename for what we're seeing here -- "we'll figure out the real name in due time," Sinofsky told the crowd -- but we don't see much harm in calling it Windows 8 for now.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/...let-prototypes/

Pattern
June 2 2011, 07:38:54 AM
Looks like the plan is to unify (if not completely, partially) the experience between windows phone and the desktop OS. ATM people probably don't see windows phone as "windows" - this visual push may be a change to remedy this as PC sales start to slump.
:nostradamus:

MortyM
June 2 2011, 10:53:53 AM
I have to say that for a tablet OS it looks pretty damn sexy. It seems a good middle road between the scaled up phone UI of the iPad and the overly complex UI of laptops/desktops.

Spawinte
June 5 2011, 01:12:21 AM
overly complex UI of laptops/desktops.

Overly complex on anything thats not a full laptop/desktop is what I hope you mean.

zangorus
June 5 2011, 04:05:51 AM
Its all a scam, its like paying for EVE expansions. thats why u pirate that shit

whispous
June 5 2011, 08:54:00 AM
People who think simplification of a PC OS to a phone UI are morons

balistic void
June 5 2011, 11:39:43 AM
We should simplify mice so they only have one button c/d?

Aphyd
June 5 2011, 11:58:53 AM
It's not simplified for desktops. That UI is a skin application (like media center) which can be turned off and is turned off by default for non-tablet/netbook installs.

Underneath it's the same old Win 7 UI with ribbons in a few extra places.

Like it or not, the big market is now little devices and both Apple and Microsoft want it. It's not going to hurt your desktop Windows experience, but neither can you expect much development on it in the near future.

Aramendel
June 5 2011, 12:51:27 PM
So after PC games got consolized PC operation systems get smartphonized? :ohnoes:

Loganbacca
June 5 2011, 01:47:38 PM
So after PC games got consolized PC operation systems get smartphonized? :ohnoes:
IT HAS BEGUN

*runs for the hills*

Hast
June 5 2011, 01:56:35 PM
There's a new version of Internet Explorer 10 (which runs Silverlight) and an app store built into the touchscreen interface, along with integrated services like Office 365. Microsoft says the new OS will run on laptops, tablets and desktops when it appears -- whenever that might be.


oh look, attempting lock in again are we?

balistic void
June 5 2011, 02:04:10 PM
Silverlight is even worse than Adobe Flash, that takes some doing.

Hast
June 5 2011, 02:10:13 PM
1. make Win8 app store and apps only work in IE10.
2. ?????
3. ActiveX all over again.

Pattern
June 5 2011, 03:55:48 PM
Arnt the new windows apps CSS Ajax and HTML5 based?

Pattern
June 5 2011, 03:58:34 PM
Actualy, what's wrong with including the silverlight plugin on a browser that's optional, when no one barring ms will develop online stuff for it? (apart from broadcasters)

Quite a bit of mindless fagotry itt tbh.

Hast
June 5 2011, 04:25:26 PM
Arnt the new windows apps CSS Ajax and HTML5 based?

yes, hopefully. But Silverlight is the tech they are mostly talking about here, and now since they are no longer under antitrust laws they will probably try to bundle their own products tighter together again.

Hopefully it wont happen

Pattern
June 5 2011, 04:31:59 PM
So your bitching about ms bundling something completely optional too use/develop for whilst allowing you to build native windows apps with the most pervaisive open language on earth? Get a grip.

Hast
June 5 2011, 06:48:20 PM
Have you ever used HTML and CSS? And had to consider IE compatability?

Aphyd
June 5 2011, 07:04:48 PM
It's improved substantially in recent IEs.

Pattern
June 5 2011, 07:46:26 PM
Have you ever used HTML and CSS? And had to consider IE compatability?
Yes. Backwards IE compatiblity is retarded. Even some ie9 sites have weirdness with canvas/svg then again, mozilla and webkit remder bits of ccs differently or sometimes need different bits of code however, using silverlight to bash MS over the head with is pretty pathetic given the whole start screen seems to be a shell with a standard windows layer running undernieth (I think). Your waaaa is also a bit retarded especially considering that they've been building this developer synergy between xna/silverlight/c# in all of there branch products (xbox, windows phone) for years now.


Also, developer in an "your not a developer so Fu" shock nonshocker.

Hast
June 5 2011, 08:47:28 PM
Your waaaa is also a bit retarded especially considering that they've been building this developer synergy between xna/silverlight/c# in all of there branch products (xbox, windows phone) for years now.


which are all MS products so kind of exactly what I'm trying to say in the first place.

You might think it is a good thing, I think it is a bad thing. Lets leave the discussion at that.

Helfix
June 6 2011, 02:22:27 AM
It's not simplified for desktops. That UI is a skin application (like media center) which can be turned off and is turned off by default for non-tablet/netbook installs.

Underneath it's the same old Win 7 UI with ribbons in a few extra places.

Like it or not, the big market is now little devices and both Apple and Microsoft want it. It's not going to hurt your desktop Windows experience, but neither can you expect much development on it in the near future.

Yeah, the UI looks pretty good for the tablet, doubtful anyone will use it on the PC platform. But I guess it's good move to try and get some "unification" going between their phone, pc and tablet ui so you can transfer shit easily or something. Given that the tablet market is expected to grow to $75b if not more in the near future.

Win7 is massive improvement as well over vista and I like it a lot...will see what they did with win8, probably same thing with win7, optimize more and get it to run better~ (one can hope) otherwise like usual, skip it and stick with win7 :V

Either way I could care less as I get it for free fuck yeah being a Uni Student :3

MortyM
June 7 2011, 09:05:09 PM
It's not simplified for desktops. That UI is a skin application (like media center) which can be turned off and is turned off by default for non-tablet/netbook installs.

Underneath it's the same old Win 7 UI with ribbons in a few extra places.

Like it or not, the big market is now little devices and both Apple and Microsoft want it. It's not going to hurt your desktop Windows experience, but neither can you expect much development on it in the near future.

Yeah, the UI looks pretty good for the tablet, doubtful anyone will use it on the PC platform. But I guess it's good move to try and get some "unification" going between their phone, pc and tablet ui so you can transfer shit easily or something. Given that the tablet market is expected to grow to $75b if not more in the near future.

Win7 is massive improvement as well over vista and I like it a lot...will see what they did with win8, probably same thing with win7, optimize more and get it to run better~ (one can hope) otherwise like usual, skip it and stick with win7 :V

Either way I could care less as I get it for free fuck yeah being a Uni Student :3
http://incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

arian snow
June 7 2011, 09:51:34 PM
Still not multiple desktop support? :cut:



sure glad I use Linux.

Helfix
June 8 2011, 05:25:07 AM
It's not simplified for desktops. That UI is a skin application (like media center) which can be turned off and is turned off by default for non-tablet/netbook installs.

Underneath it's the same old Win 7 UI with ribbons in a few extra places.

Like it or not, the big market is now little devices and both Apple and Microsoft want it. It's not going to hurt your desktop Windows experience, but neither can you expect much development on it in the near future.

Yeah, the UI looks pretty good for the tablet, doubtful anyone will use it on the PC platform. But I guess it's good move to try and get some "unification" going between their phone, pc and tablet ui so you can transfer shit easily or something. Given that the tablet market is expected to grow to $75b if not more in the near future.

Win7 is massive improvement as well over vista and I like it a lot...will see what they did with win8, probably same thing with win7, optimize more and get it to run better~ (one can hope) otherwise like usual, skip it and stick with win7 :V

Either way I could care less as I get it for free fuck yeah being a Uni Student :3
http://incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

get out! :obama:

Snake
June 8 2011, 01:33:49 PM
Still not multiple desktop support? :cut:



sure glad I use Linux.
So many times this. It needs to have a Spaces style multiple desktop, and a multiple monitor taskbar. These things have been sorely missing from windows since XP.

Pattern
June 8 2011, 06:04:22 PM
Unless is a synergy style multiple physical desktops, then it's a bit pointless, either switch between users or just avoid having so much shit open. Multiple taskbar? Would look pretty but is it really necessary? Multiple monitor support should be built in from the get go however...

Snake
June 9 2011, 05:27:12 AM
Multiple monitor taskbar is very necessary. If you have never used ultramon over 2 or 3 screens, try it. Once you have you can never go back to having just one taskbar. Each program only shows on the screen that it is on, and windows minimize to their respective taskbar. Great for multi-tasking. Spaces would be a great feature to have, its another one of those things that you don't miss until you have used it on a mac or linux box, once you have windows seems so cramped.

EntroX
June 9 2011, 08:37:12 PM
was plyaing with the M3 leak around, of course not much has changed but some of the new features are shiny.

Lex Fasces
June 9 2011, 11:45:38 PM
is this good then?

Mimiru
June 10 2011, 12:08:42 AM
Still not multiple desktop support? :cut:



sure glad I use Linux.
So many times this. It needs to have a Spaces style multiple desktop, and a multiple monitor taskbar. These things have been sorely missing from windows since XP.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881

Sysinternals. Learn them, live them, love them.

Loganbacca
September 15 2011, 12:49:49 PM
Windows 8 Developer Preview is available: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516

First impression is: Metro UI, burn it, burn it with fire.

Second impression is: There are some nice additions when you start digging a bit deeper, task manager for example has a lot of additional information displayed in it (once you've clicked the "more info" button).
Ribbon in explorer is unfortunately gay, however at least you can minimise the bulk of it, and at that point have a file explorer that is about the same size but with a little more functionality than Win7's explorer. That's about as far as I've got so far, aside from working out how to navigate the Metro UI.

Interestingly my mum said the Metro UI/tablet interface looked great, so I guess at least Microsoft has done a good job designing it to appeal to the casual computer user market.

True story; I've been looking for the shut down button in windows for the past 20 mins... still cant find it.
EDIT: found it, seems you have to logout first, then you can get to the shutdown button from the login page :psyduck:

Pattern
September 15 2011, 12:53:43 PM
They need to ditch aero tbh, or at least make it not the default option, the UX atm is painfully reminiscent of windows mobile 6, with the HTC skin on top.

Aramendel
September 15 2011, 02:37:45 PM
True story; I've been looking for the shut down button in windows for the past 20 mins... still cant find it.
EDIT: found it, seems you have to logout first, then you can get to the shutdown button from the login page :psyduck:

Cannot imagine that that is the only place with it. In win7 you have a shutdown button in the login page, too, but there is also one on the start menu.

halbarad
September 15 2011, 02:44:37 PM
Cannot imagine that that is the only place with it. In win7 you have a shutdown button in the login page, too, but there is also one on the start menu.

I've installed it today and after a bit of playing around I found you can hover over the Start Button/Icon and a box appears (like a drop down menu) and you can select Settings and then Power to shutdown/restart/sleep.

Daneel Trevize
September 15 2011, 03:13:28 PM
Still at least 1 menu too deep to be sane.

Zekk Pacus
September 15 2011, 06:59:56 PM
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/windows-8-blue-screen-of-death-bsod-win8-blue-screen,news-36440.html

If there's no way to disable this child-friendly bullshit I won't be touching it.

Audrey Koshka
September 15 2011, 07:13:38 PM
I'm just glad I can finally talk about what I work on to friends and family.


Arnt the new windows apps CSS Ajax and HTML5 based?

That is one way of writing them, yes. You can also write them in C++ or C# via XAML. (i.e. similar experience to WPF/Silverlight) When they first talked about HTML5 based applications but didn't mention XAML, the WPF/SL developers weren't very happy. The decision to keep us under wraps and wait till PDC to publicly announce didn't help to calm them down.

Itiken
September 15 2011, 07:47:33 PM
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/windows-8-blue-screen-of-death-bsod-win8-blue-screen,news-36440.html

If there's no way to disable this child-friendly bullshit I won't be touching it.
Becasue pages of HEX are more manly right ?

Xennith
September 15 2011, 07:50:26 PM
Becasue pages of HEX are more manly right ?

Significantly more useful than a frowny face.

We had a play around with it in the office today - looks like windows 7 with some additions. Oh, and apparently I have to learn an entirely new file system. Great.

Zekk Pacus
September 15 2011, 08:00:27 PM
Basically, this.

I hate operating systems that try and make computers non-threatening and something fun, because it causes users who really don't know any better to think they can change any setting and do anything they like and it won't fuck up. Then they phone me and I have to fix it because they are my family.

Itiken
September 15 2011, 08:09:49 PM
Significantly more useful than a frowny face.
Really?


So when a linux process fucks up and creates a DOTcore file, that's useless too right, because it doesn't put the output on the screen, where you can read it ?

good point man, fuck *NIX

Xennith
September 15 2011, 08:19:37 PM
I find memory addresses significantly more useful than frowny faces.

I tend not to run linux processes on my w32 platforms - and regardless of how they dump their memory, frowny faces do not help me.

Zekk Pacus
September 15 2011, 09:05:15 PM
I don't care what it is, I just don't want the 'oops, your computer made a whoopsy, isn't that sad' fucking fisher price my first error code.

Daneel Trevize
September 15 2011, 09:05:59 PM
You can google the exact error & hex values, and sometimes find a knowledge article or even a fix. You can take a screenshot or even pic of the screen on your phone if there's an error code to note. Try googling frowny face after Win8 comes out. Alternating Windows releases being super shit rule is in full swing.

Liare
September 15 2011, 09:29:29 PM
It had better have a new filesystemwont have it, because WinFS is a fucking pipe-dream, always where and will probably remain so for the next ten years or more.


App store, inbuilt pdf reader, colour coordinated desktop (matches aero borders to wallpaper), Office '07 ribbon for explorer, some retarded bubble-like UI (I assume for tablets) and cloud stuff are some of the features I've heard of.

I for one am going to warily poke it with a long stick before I let it anywhere near my PC. free translation, ZERO fucking reason to upgrade for enterprise customers, its amazing really, they shit out a entire OS without adding features that are acturally fucking useful for the people who make up the core of their business and a large part of the reason behind the high usage percentage despite the terrible products they put out occasionally.

the cloud is a especially retarded idea, "please pay us money so you can store your shit in our "cloud" datacenter" is all fine and dandy, but many companies have a legal obligation not to carry out such retardation (why hello confidential documents who cannot leave the nations borders! nice to meet you!) and then there's the principle problem of it, you want me to give you fuckheads money to do what boils down to what im hired to do ? no really, you want me to reccomend to my company that they should pick a solution that means i, or some of my coworkers are without a job, with a fuckton of legality issues and violations of sensible business principles ? OH REALLY?!?


Better have a more sensible permissions/UAC system. That powershell doesn't have a sudo function blows my mind. That I can't open a file outside my home area with write permissions from an explorer window irritates the crap out of me. this is called sensible security, learn to fucking deal with it, without it there's no actual protection.


I am all for the ribbon on explorer. The current UI is pretty crappy and the ribbon is actually pretty good once you stop :bittervet:ing about it. Ribbon is good tbh, its much better than the Win 3.1 "modernization" that defines XP.


At least we aren't gay~~~

Seriously, what is so exciting about 7 besides pretty design and dx10+? get a fucking job in IT and see what the fuzz is about, pro tip, it effectively halves my workload and allows me to fuck about with more interesting things.


oh look, attempting lock in again are we? dont be too hard on em, its in their nature. remember EEE ?

Mimiru
September 15 2011, 11:12:06 PM
Clouds great.

Haters gonna hate.

Aea
September 15 2011, 11:25:43 PM
Clouds great.

Haters gonna hate.

The Cloud = Internet Singularity is rapidly approaching. :nostradamus:

Daneel Trevize
September 15 2011, 11:48:59 PM
I still can't believe so many business people are buying into some that is literally hot air.

Liare
September 15 2011, 11:52:53 PM
Clouds great.

Haters gonna hate.explain what's so great about it then.

no marketing speech allowed, clear cut technical terms is, and no "because its neato!" argumentation allowed.

Mimiru
September 16 2011, 12:42:13 AM
I don't have to touch it? Once you build it out and set up decent tools it monitors, manages, and scales itself.

Client wants a new website/web app/mobile site/mobile app/blahblahblah

I make Azure account (or whatever), buy domain/SSL cert (or tell client to). Point domain to Azure account. Tell Visual Studio project to deploy to azure. Copy SSL cert to project. Tell devs to have at it. Point monitoring program at azure account. X weeks later development is done. Click button, deploy to QA instance. Test. Click button, deploy to Prod instance.

Traffic goes up? high cpu/ram/etc use? Monitoring program spins up more instances automagically, spreads dat load, Hosting bill goes up.

Site dies? Monitoring program spins up more instances in multiple geographic locations automagically.

Traffic goes down? Monitoring porgram turns off unused instances, hosting bill goes down.

Time to deploy updates? click a button in visual studio. its deployed to QA. Passes QA? click a button, it swaps QA and Prod behind the load balancer, so whatever was in QA is now prod, whatever was prod is now QA. Oh shit we done fucked up, need to rollback! Click a button, put things back to how they were. Oh, and that happens instantly.

Done with the site? cancel the account. boom, done.

Is THE CLOUD~(TM) the answer to every problem? fuck no. Is it THE WORST THING EVER? Nope. Its one more tool in your technology toolbox. The point of the cloud is to remove OS and hardware concerns from places that they shouldn't matter.

Obviously this is biased towards Azure, as thats what I use the most. But I also have stuff in EC2, and am starting a new project in a vSphere private cloud. I also have stuff on physical servers (including ancient SUN boxes running Solaris), stuff on vmware hosts, a god damned as/400 mainframe, stuff hosted at rackspace/savvis/etc, and so on.

RazoR
September 16 2011, 04:12:49 AM
Becasue pages of HEX are more manly right ?Yes. I thought this forum is teeming with advanced users, but some still fail to see the obvious.

If there will be a really professional edition then fine. I don't want to fuck around for hours to bring my OS into transparent enough condition.
Really?


So when a linux process fucks up and creates a DOTcore file, that's useless too right, because it doesn't put the output on the screen, where you can read it ?

good point man, fuck *NIXWhy is this such a problem? How does the screen output mess with your shit any further?
I've installed it today and after a bit of playing around I found you can hover over the Start Button/Icon and a box appears (like a drop down menu) and you can select Settings and then Power to shutdown/restart/sleep.Jesus christ, how the fuck is that a setting?

Win98 restart on double CAD was accidental at times. But it was fucking direct.
Then you had to go alt-f4 on XP, fine.
And after that you can't bring up task manager by just pressing CAD, you have to do one more mouseclick.
Clusterfuck coming soon.


This is why i like my cars old and rusty.
Just like my bicycle.

Tyrus Tenebros
September 16 2011, 04:54:57 AM
Checking in to say that I actually like ribbons just fine thanks.


However, while I never exactly loved the page of hex, the general dumbing-down of OS's is a bit frustrating. Back when I installed XP it took far too long for me to find all the nooks and crannies of "you shouldn't look at these settings!!" and disable them. There should be a "i am not retarded and this is my personal computer to fuck up if i want to" button that stops all that from happening.


Also: Never used Vista checking in

Vaksai
September 16 2011, 08:52:35 AM
EDIT: found it, seems you have to logout first, then you can get to the shutdown button from the login page :psyduck:

Windows key + C, Settings, Power.

Frools
September 16 2011, 08:56:43 AM
They need to ditch aero tbh, or at least make it not the default option, the UX atm is painfully reminiscent of windows mobile 6, with the HTC skin on top.
:psyduck:

edit:


Win98 restart on double CAD was accidental at times. But it was fucking direct.
Then you had to go alt-f4 on XP, fine.
And after that you can't bring up task manager by just pressing CAD, you have to do one more mouseclick.
Clusterfuck coming soon.

gonna let you in on a little secret: ctrl+shift+esc
also right click taskbar
:O

also also, why are you guys sperging out so hard on where the fucking shutdown button is, who the fuck cares i only need that button once every 2 months

Muffinsrevenger
September 16 2011, 09:05:15 AM
Is THE CLOUD~(TM) the answer to every problem? fuck no. Is it THE WORST THING EVER? Nope. Its one more tool in your technology toolbox. The point of the cloud is to remove OS and hardware concerns from places that they shouldn't matter.

I'm bad with words, so i won't try to outshine this gentlemens wall of truth, but in short this
The cloud won't replace regular computers
The cloud won't be the only type of solution you ever need
The cloud can compliment your regular and even downsized pool of computers
The cloud can be a useful solution to alot of different problems

If you read around then yeah, you see a lot of idiots who think that "lol pads will replace workstations 'cause of clouds~~" or "the PC is dead!!11", no thats not true and no that won't happen, but we will get another option of doing things

Lana Torrin
September 16 2011, 09:26:33 AM
Checking in to say that I actually like ribbons just fine thanks.

I couldn't give 2 fucks either way myself but we just upgraded from office 2003 to office 2010 here (yep, big jump i know) and so we have gone from no ribbon to 2nd gen ribbon in 1 hit..

You can literally see the loss in productivity as people struggle to use it. I'm sure in a few weeks it will all be back to normal as people work out where everything has gone, but its a hilarious and un-needed change as far as I can see.

Lana Torrin
September 16 2011, 09:34:46 AM
The cloud won't replace regular computers
The cloud won't be the only type of solution you ever need
The cloud can compliment your regular and even downsized pool of computers
The cloud can be a useful solution to alot of different problems

The problem I have with the cloud (apart from people calling it the cloud, fuck it was web aps 12 months ago, why change names to something more gay) is that people are trying to shoehorn everything in to it.. One of the most retarded things our company is trying to use it for at the moment is offsite backups. Currently the process is back up to tape twice, remove 1 tape from site. Backups are done over the weekend and the copies are removed on a monday. Backing up to take currently takes ALL WEEKEND as we have way to much raw data (we had to ask dell if their SANs would take 3TB drives because it wasn't on the spec sheet). The choice was either buy a second group of storage servers and go backup to disk (quick) then to tape (slow but we can do this during business hours now) and remove the tapes, or 'backup to the cloud'.. Some idiot decided that sounded better..

First test run took almost a week to copy the data off 1 o the 3 file server we have.

You would have thought that would have been the end of it, but no, they want to see what a faster link will do instead.. God help us if we ever need to restore a full server.

Loganbacca
September 16 2011, 01:10:47 PM
I couldn't give 2 fucks either way myself but we just upgraded from office 2003 to office 2010 here (yep, big jump i know) and so we have gone from no ribbon to 2nd gen ribbon in 1 hit..

You can literally see the loss in productivity as people struggle to use it. I'm sure in a few weeks it will all be back to normal as people work out where everything has gone, but its a hilarious and un-needed change as far as I can see.
Heh, we're just about to do the same thing as well, Office 2003 to 2010, and Windows XP to 7... tears will be shed I'm sure. Good thing I'm not leading the charge and am just looking after our divisions specialist software, that and there's only 25 in our office, 15 of who are on shifts and only on 2-3 at a time so I should be able to help everyone through. It's going to be thoroughly entertaining watching the main office of 150 or so change over though, I'll be watching from a distance naturally.

As far as Windows 8 vs professionals goes; I'm sure I said a while ago Microsoft should just ignore the Apple fuelled consumer iComputing shenanigans and focus more on looking after business. Seems they've decided to go the opposite direction though, hopefully by the time it gets to beta you'll be able to disable the tablet interface altogether on install, because using all the slidey stuff daily on a desktop would just get maddening.

Another thing, apparently IE10 metro (note the metro part) will not be supporting browser plugins like Flash or even MS's own Silverlight, it'll be HTML5 only. Is that correct? Seems like they're actually trying to shoot themselves in the foot if it is.

Itiken
September 16 2011, 04:06:51 PM
Yes. I thought this forum is teeming with advanced users, but some still fail to see the obvious.
You've missed my point. I'm pretty drunk (again) though so bear with me.

I've been supporting windows commercially since 1993. BSOD's have been getting less and less common over the years, to the point where i'm having trouble remembering what a Win7 BSOD looks like. (Does it even have one?)

For 99% of users, there is no care in the world. If the blue thing happens, then as mentioned above, the scary pages of numbers make it much more of an issue than is regularly is. Sure you can blame a crappy MS wahtever, but the chances are it's that shitty device driver on that shitty 2$ printer you installed..... Seriously, who do you think writes better code?

Now lets look at windows support. The useful part of the BSOD is the Error code (usually 0x000500... or whatever - memory problem) or (Boot device inaccessible) these come from either your computer being fucked, which any kid can diagnose as you simply get fustrated and take it back to PC World, or you heve been fucking with your boot device partition table, in which case you can diagnose it yourself.

~~5 times in 18 years i've been asked by support to upload Core Dumps / Memory Dumps / Page Files and once a Cold HDD image. the simple fact is you find out more about a broken system by getting it, even in a flakey way, up and running again and looking than you do by a page full of hex.

It's like those *NIX kids so impressed with themselves they'd rather download source code and 'compile it themselves' rather than pkg_add (or apt-get) a pre-compiled binary because "yay - staring at a screen for 3 horus compiling X from source makes you pr0 right.... " (Yes gentoo users, i'm looking at you and your CFLAG's)


However, while I never exactly loved the page of hex, the general dumbing-down of OS's is a bit frustrating. Back when I installed XP it took far too long for me to find all the nooks and crannies of "you shouldn't look at these settings!!" and disable them. There should be a "i am not retarded and this is my personal computer to fuck up if i want to" button that stops all that from happening.

System -> Advanced -> Enable advanced error reporting.

Fr real stupid though, read this. it's proper :psyduck: with a lot of :facepalm:
http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2011/09/16/windows_8_bsod/

hatters gonna hat ?

Pattern
September 16 2011, 06:59:52 PM
Also:
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/microsoft-office-likely-to-get-the-metro-treatment.ars

Devec
September 17 2011, 10:46:00 AM
Another thing, apparently IE10 metro (note the metro part) will not be supporting browser plugins like Flash or even MS's own Silverlight, it'll be HTML5 only. Is that correct? Seems like they're actually trying to shoot themselves in the foot if it is.

Not necessarily. HTML 5 provides a lot of function that flash now provides in the form of a multimedia container without having to use other plugins. I can't honestly say I ever encountered something made with silverlight on the web or that it is popular among people who make these web applications.

Brullig
September 17 2011, 06:00:36 PM
Installed it on a front-of-shop computer for customers to mess around with. Funny watching people try to figure out wtf it is.

Loganbacca
September 18 2011, 02:21:41 AM
Not necessarily. HTML 5 provides a lot of function that flash now provides in the form of a multimedia container without having to use other plugins. I can't honestly say I ever encountered something made with silverlight on the web or that it is popular among people who make these web applications.
Yea, I know it provides a lot of the functionality of flash, but that would require everyone who has a website with flash content to upgrade it to HTML 5, that's a lot of man hours just so your site will be compatible with metro IE10.

Loire
September 18 2011, 03:10:47 AM
Windows 7 came out what... yesterday? Microsoft taking tips from ENCOM I take it?

whispous
September 18 2011, 04:40:16 PM
Windows 7 came out what... yesterday? Microsoft taking tips from ENCOM I take it?

You mean almost 2 years ago, right?

ry ry
September 18 2011, 05:26:42 PM
Yea, I know it provides a lot of the functionality of flash, but that would require everyone who has a website with flash content to upgrade it to HTML 5, that's a lot of man hours just so your site will be compatible with metro IE10.
I suspect Adobe edge will fill in the blanks there tbh.

Current preview version only has some very basic functionality, but if rumor is to be believed there will be the option to export flash shizzle as canvas. I suspect it'll suck, but if even adobe are starting to look at flash replacements it's days are numbered.

Liare
September 18 2011, 10:42:12 PM
I don't have to touch it? Once you build it out and set up decent tools it monitors, manages, and scales itself.

Client wants a new website/web app/mobile site/mobile app/blahblahblah

I make Azure account (or whatever), buy domain/SSL cert (or tell client to). Point domain to Azure account. Tell Visual Studio project to deploy to azure. Copy SSL cert to project. Tell devs to have at it. Point monitoring program at azure account. X weeks later development is done. Click button, deploy to QA instance. Test. Click button, deploy to Prod instance.

Traffic goes up? high cpu/ram/etc use? Monitoring program spins up more instances automagically, spreads dat load, Hosting bill goes up.

Site dies? Monitoring program spins up more instances in multiple geographic locations automagically.

Traffic goes down? Monitoring porgram turns off unused instances, hosting bill goes down.

Time to deploy updates? click a button in visual studio. its deployed to QA. Passes QA? click a button, it swaps QA and Prod behind the load balancer, so whatever was in QA is now prod, whatever was prod is now QA. Oh shit we done fucked up, need to rollback! Click a button, put things back to how they were. Oh, and that happens instantly.

Done with the site? cancel the account. boom, done.

Is THE CLOUD~(TM) the answer to every problem? fuck no. Is it THE WORST THING EVER? Nope. Its one more tool in your technology toolbox. The point of the cloud is to remove OS and hardware concerns from places that they shouldn't matter.

Obviously this is biased towards Azure, as thats what I use the most. But I also have stuff in EC2, and am starting a new project in a vSphere private cloud. I also have stuff on physical servers (including ancient SUN boxes running Solaris), stuff on vmware hosts, a god damned as/400 mainframe, stuff hosted at rackspace/savvis/etc, and so on. yet none of these arguments address where stuffing internal shit into the cloud is a good idea™
you know, small things like company email and file storage, infact all you manage to address here is the advantages of using the "cloud" for "web" hosting, something hosting companies make their fucking living out of interestingly enough. ("web" in citation marks because many cloud "apps" are basically redone desktop apps in a browser, with even less acceptable performance to boot)

so yea, you addressed nothing significant here, would you like to try again?

let's flip the coin and look at parts of what i hold against it instead.

1. Data Control, putting shit into the cloud means you have ZERO fucking control over where it goes and only a "we promise not to look, HONEST!" assurance to prevent leakages, this is entirely unacceptable for any company doing development work and wishes to protect their IP, or somebody with legal obligations not to let certain information leave the country, Data protection laws are, by large, entirely incompatible with the cloud FOR A VERY GOOD FUCKING REASON.

2. "ooh, let's see what we can make it do!" syndrome, let me start by saying that there's no such thing as a "good" office application, its always going to be a case of "degrees of terrible", why the fuck is loading this into a browser, adding another layer of terrible to a already terrible shit sandwich a good fucking thing ?

Lana Torrin
September 19 2011, 02:37:57 AM
Windows on a tablet:

Lets get back to this one.. Here is the issue.. Windows its self (Win 7) is actually quite nice on a tablet. It has nice big buttons and generally doesn't assume you have a mouse (except for those nice fly out preview windows that were stolen from Compiz/Beryl). The issue is the apps..

Its not even the apps so much as people will go, ooo! its windows! That means I can just install xyz on it! Only xyz wont be UI optimized for touch screen and so will be hard to use (see right clicking on menu nesting) and generally be shit.. Which will make the 'Windows on a tablet' experience shit..

So once again it will fail on a touch screen device and microsoft wont understand why..

:nostradamus:

Loire
September 19 2011, 02:56:26 AM
You mean almost 2 years ago, right?

You're absolutely right! We definitely need a new OS every 2 years!

Ya no. Voting on "Skip-it-it'll-be-a-piece-of-shit-worthy-of-Vista-unless-it's-just-7-with-tablet-functionality-tacked-on."

Lana Torrin
September 19 2011, 06:40:08 AM
You're absolutely right! We definitely need a new OS every 2 years!

Ya no. Voting on "Skip-it-it'll-be-a-piece-of-shit-worthy-of-Vista-unless-it's-just-7-with-tablet-functionality-tacked-on."

This is the first developer release and not the final release, expect it to be at least a year away.. Which bring us to the next point in that prior to Vista the normal turn around for a new OS was once every 3 years... Vista was a massive fuckup and as a result XP was around for a lot longer than it was ever supposed to be around for.. (6 years in the end)

Windows 3.1 - 1992
Windows 95 - 1995
Windows 98 - 1998
Windows XP - 2001
Windows Vista - 2006/7 (It was supposed to be January 2007 but managed to get shipped with PCs in time for xmas 2006)
Windows 7 - 2009

Edit: Oh yeah, I have ignored Windows ME because it was released late 2000 and was replaced mid 2001 by XP because OMG IT IS THE DEVIL AAAAA!!!!!!! It also got support dropped pretty early and well basically, if any of you had to support it like I did you would remember why I just ignored it ever existed..

Mr Marram
September 19 2011, 06:50:22 AM
gonna let you in on a little secret: ctrl+shift+esc

:motherofgod.jpg:

+rep

evidently everyone else sucks

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Frools again.

Vaksai
September 19 2011, 11:00:54 AM
:motherofgod.jpg:

+rep

evidently everyone else sucks

How did you not know this?

Muffinsrevenger
September 19 2011, 11:37:40 AM
How did you not know this?

also, windows+e

also, windows+m, or windows+shift+m to restore

omeg
September 19 2011, 01:03:29 PM
Finally installed it to see what's all the buzz about, and...:psyduck::psyduck::psyduck:
My PC is not a fucking tablet or an XBOX. How on earth this UI is supposed to be good for keyboard+mouse desktop PC?
At least the new task manager is nice, but...

http://i.imgur.com/9cTJJ.png

http://files.sharenator.com/wtf_is_this_shit_piccard_RE_Why_People_Hate_Hipste rs-s306x227-109368.jpg

ry ry
September 19 2011, 01:23:27 PM
requiring activation to customize the UI seems fine to me tbh. then again, i have an MSDN pack so i'll just plunder the keys from that anyway when the time comes.

(considered trying to chuck windows 8 onto my ipad, then decided it was a horrible horrible idea.)

Loganbacca
September 20 2011, 12:53:38 PM
gonna let you in on a little secret: ctrl+shift+esc
Oh wow, how did I not know that, I feel like a retard.

Thankfully I do know a lot of the other Win+e, Win+r, etc shortcuts

EntroX
September 20 2011, 09:11:38 PM
windows 8 server is gonna be fucking awesome.

that is all.

El Capitano
September 20 2011, 11:13:38 PM
I lost interest when I discovered that all Metro apps must go through the app store. No compromises my arse.

Mimiru
September 20 2011, 11:49:36 PM
windows 8 server is gonna be fucking awesome.

that is all.

Ayup. http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/windows-server-8-built-for-the-cloud-built-for-virtualization.ars

SQL Denali is looking pretty good as well, along with SCCM 2012, which looks like it will provide a lot of management for android/ios devices :D

Frools
September 21 2011, 08:00:22 PM
SQL Denali is looking pretty good as well
did they actually do anything to the core or did they just add new shiny bullshit to it again

fuck MS SQL, piece of shit wrapped in a bunch of shiny management shit

Waagaa
September 22 2011, 12:10:00 AM
At least we aren't gay~~~

Seriously, what is so exciting about 7 besides pretty design and dx10+?
Windows 7 outperformes Vista, XP and 2000 on a non-communist era computer. If you can run tonks, you should gain performance from installing windows 7.
Just disable aero to compare it to 2k :)

Frug
September 22 2011, 02:24:08 AM
At least we aren't gay~~~

Seriously, what is so exciting about 7 besides pretty design and dx10+?Egads, man. You russians.

"is ok. works fine. duct tape holds until you shake it, so don't shake it."

ry ry
September 22 2011, 08:20:55 PM
Don't put windows 8 on your iPad. as amusing as it is, it barely works.

Zekk Pacus
September 22 2011, 08:57:54 PM
And how would that be any different from the average user experience of Windows 8?

ry ry
September 22 2011, 10:13:18 PM
Because it has barely-functional touchscreen to go with it's barely functional functionality.

Pattern
September 23 2011, 12:16:40 AM
As it stands, it's garbage.

Were was Vista/windows 7 at this stage of development?

elmicker
September 23 2011, 07:07:55 PM
To be allowed to stick a bit of "Windows 8" branding anywhere near their product, OEMs are going to have to ship with Secure UEFI enabled. The long and short of that is the system is locked up tight and depedent entirely on the OEM's key and MS's key for windows. If the OEM neglects to provide the user the ability to alter the key database, or doesn't provide the ability to boot without the Secure UEFI features enabled, a range of things from being unable to upgrade one's hardware to being unable to install any other OSes will occur. It's a particular problem for Linux as the GPL is incompatible with signed software.

Fun.

Bombcrater
September 23 2011, 07:33:35 PM
Every article seems to talk about locking out Linux, but another huge problem with secure boot is that it prevents booting from DVDs or USB drives unless they are signed with Microsoft keys. So no more Memtest86 or low-level hard drive test utils, no more backup/restore boot discs (Acronis, etc).

I doubt this 'feature' will make the release version of Win 8 in its current form, the competition authorities would go nuclear on Microsoft, but if it does it'll be an unmitigated clusterfuck. I suspect MS will at some point cave and modify the Windows logo programme to require systems have an option to disable secure boot and, hopefully, a key that can be held down to bypass it on a per-boot basis.

Vortex
September 23 2011, 07:50:29 PM
There is now way that would survive the onslaught of anti-trust lawsuits that would result.

Rans
September 23 2011, 08:29:05 PM
The only thing I want from win8 is to steal the f3 key from mac os.

EntroX
September 23 2011, 08:47:31 PM
The only thing I want from win8 is to steal the f3 key from mac os.

there's literally an app for that.

i cant remember the name but i replaced win+tab thingie with it (basically Expose), will post the name when i get home

RazoR
September 23 2011, 11:30:40 PM
Yo i've stolen Win7 x64 ultimte. Am i cool now?

http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/48/4846ddb6510c526eb267688f9e58dcedf1b6b513_full.jpg

A bit confusing at times and eats 700mb idle, but has some good ui improvents. I'll give it that.

Raine Woot
September 24 2011, 01:36:36 AM
Every article seems to talk about locking out Linux, but another huge problem with secure boot is that it prevents booting from DVDs or USB drives unless they are signed with Microsoft keys. So no more Memtest86 or low-level hard drive test utils, no more backup/restore boot discs (Acronis, etc).

I doubt this 'feature' will make the release version of Win 8 in its current form, the competition authorities would go nuclear on Microsoft, but if it does it'll be an unmitigated clusterfuck. I suspect MS will at some point cave and modify the Windows logo programme to require systems have an option to disable secure boot and, hopefully, a key that can be held down to bypass it on a per-boot basis.

Holy fuck, that would make my job a nightmare if it makes it through. Crossing my fingers someone puts a stop to that nonsense.

Liare
September 24 2011, 01:49:56 PM
UEFI is nothing new tbh.

this is not some conspiracy to turn the PC ecosystem into the Windows system, but a way to prevent "hostile" bootloaders cracking open encrypted drives by providing a means to verify the boot-loader itself is untouched before fetching the decryption keys from a USB stick or the TPM chip.

basically its a much needed tool for companies such as mine who occasionally ship proprietary information on encrypted laptops, its intended to counter the "evil maid" attack where the bootloader is replaced by something nicking both the encryption key out of the TPM chip and the "PIN code" password on the boot-loader itself, trivializing the theft of information.

Bombcrater
September 24 2011, 02:55:50 PM
Providing UEFI secure boot capability as an option would be entirely satisfactory. It's easy enough for corporate IT departments to specify PCs that have a secure boot facility and make sure it's enabled, similar to they way TPMs are handled now.

But Microsoft's requirement that secure booting be enabled as part of the Win 8 logo program means every single OEM will ship all their systems, business and consumer, with secure booting present and enabled by default. And I'll bet very few of them will provide an option to turn it off (have you seen the UEFI settings screens on big-brand systems recently? There's nothing there beyond basic boot order options). The result is that other than self-builds and systems from tiny vendors, within a year or two of Win 8 coming out it'll be almost impossible to buy a PC capable of booting non-Microsoft code. You can debate whether that's a deliberate power grab or an accidental side-effect (given Microsoft's history, one is much more likely than the other) but the result is the same.

Waagaa
September 24 2011, 03:09:48 PM
Yo i've stolen Win7 x64 ultimte. Am i cool now?

http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/48/4846ddb6510c526eb267688f9e58dcedf1b6b513_full.jpg

A bit confusing at times and eats 700mb idle, but has some good ui improvents. I'll give it that.

The memory that it "eats" when idle is your disk cache... :)

Liare
September 24 2011, 03:44:23 PM
Providing UEFI secure boot capability as an option would be entirely satisfactory. It's easy enough for corporate IT departments to specify PCs that have a secure boot facility and make sure it's enabled, similar to they way TPMs are handled now.

But Microsoft's requirement that secure booting be enabled as part of the Win 8 logo program means every single OEM will ship all their systems, business and consumer, with secure booting present and enabled by default. And I'll bet very few of them will provide an option to turn it off (have you seen the UEFI settings screens on big-brand systems recently? There's nothing there beyond basic boot order options). The result is that other than self-builds and systems from tiny vendors, within a year or two of Win 8 coming out it'll be almost impossible to buy a PC capable of booting non-Microsoft code. You can debate whether that's a deliberate power grab or an accidental side-effect (given Microsoft's history, one is much more likely than the other) but the result is the same.mostly because Microsoft spots a potential way to force people to pay for their fucking OS, shock and horror at that!

honestly, Linux hobbyist dont buy Dell/HP consumer hardware, hacking the UEFI system to disable this is bound to the trivial (as in, its trivial to create a system that does it while installing the distro of choice on said boxes, the vendor may not provide the option, but the setting itself is still there. nor do i think getting a LILO/GRUB loader signed is going to be "hard") and its not even remotely relevant on servers in the first place.

the marketing weenies may see it as a opportunity for additional lock-in but to be honest, its not the intention of it.

Rans
September 24 2011, 03:54:07 PM
there's literally an app for that.

i cant remember the name but i replaced win+tab thingie with it (basically Expose), will post the name when i get homePlease don't forget about it, I'd be very interested.

Also Razor, for me win7 seems a lot faster and lighter.

Drakma
September 24 2011, 07:00:02 PM
Will the dev preview allow dual boot? or is it wipe and install?

RazoR
September 24 2011, 09:14:28 PM
Will the dev preview allow dual boot? or is it wipe and install?How could it not?

Drakma
September 24 2011, 09:40:28 PM
How could it not?

I dunno... maybe :microsoft: and :preview: are making me leary

RazoR
September 24 2011, 10:23:16 PM
The only software that didn't allow dual boot is Eve online~~~

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0712/ccptrain.jpg

Drakma
September 24 2011, 10:32:19 PM
Well here I am in windows 8 in a virtualbox.... metro ui is meh. will have to see how it runs steam programs....

thebomby
September 26 2011, 01:13:18 AM
The problem I have with the cloud (apart from people calling it the cloud, fuck it was web aps 12 months ago, why change names to something more gay) is that people are trying to shoehorn everything in to it.. One of the most retarded things our company is trying to use it for at the moment is offsite backups. Currently the process is back up to tape twice, remove 1 tape from site. Backups are done over the weekend and the copies are removed on a monday. Backing up to take currently takes ALL WEEKEND as we have way to much raw data (we had to ask dell if their SANs would take 3TB drives because it wasn't on the spec sheet). The choice was either buy a second group of storage servers and go backup to disk (quick) then to tape (slow but we can do this during business hours now) and remove the tapes, or 'backup to the cloud'.. Some idiot decided that sounded better..

First test run took almost a week to copy the data off 1 o the 3 file server we have.

You would have thought that would have been the end of it, but no, they want to see what a faster link will do instead.. God help us if we ever need to restore a full server.When we got a new COO at our company, he too thought that cloud backup, aka offsite backup over the internet was a brilliant idea. When I pointed out to him that that would take the better part of a week he backed off the idea.

Lana Torrin
September 26 2011, 03:53:55 AM
When we got a new COO at our company, he too thought that cloud backup, aka offsite backup over the internet was a brilliant idea. When I pointed out to him that that would take the better part of a week he backed off the idea.
I'm now off that project and its someone elses problem.. I'm so happy.

Liare
September 26 2011, 06:05:33 PM
Will the dev preview allow dual boot? or is it wipe and install?l2VMWarenub.

Equium Duo
January 11 2012, 11:52:58 PM
This is a necro, and I apologise, is it true that you can play xbox games on win8?

Rudolf Miller
January 12 2012, 01:48:28 PM
This is a necro, and I apologise, is it true that you can play xbox games on win8?

Rumor unconfirmed last I heard.

Would be glorious if true.

firefoxx80
January 12 2012, 05:19:12 PM
Confirming, more existed at Server 8 than Windows 8 tbh. Given MS history, Win8 will be a POS like Vista and ME.

elmicker
January 12 2012, 09:41:19 PM
I never had a problem with Vista, and it was the main OS i used right up until about four months ago. Every problem I heard of was down to arsetastic 3rd party drivers and OEMs putting the OS on machines far too lightweight to actually run it. Never really understood the vitriol some people spewed over it.

LoudSpeakly
January 12 2012, 10:27:38 PM
Never really understood the vitriol some people spewed over it.

It made good hardware run poorly. Is it swapping? Is it indexing? Who knows, but the disk LED has been solid on for the last hour.

To be fair I've managed to get Vista to run at a point I reckon is acceptable, but I've had to tweak a bunch of things that shouldn't need to be on a generic install.

Qwert
January 12 2012, 10:39:20 PM
Never really understood the vitriol some people spewed over it.

It made good hardware run poorly. Is it swapping? Is it indexing? Who knows, but the disk LED has been solid on for the last hour.

To be fair I've managed to get Vista to run at a point I reckon is acceptable, but I've had to tweak a bunch of things that shouldn't need to be on a generic install.
A big part of Vista's problem was that it needs gigs of ram, but the hardware makers bitched and moaned until MS let them install it and put the sticker on with like 512mb. From everything I've heard it runs fine when you give it a reasonable amount.

Zekk Pacus
January 13 2012, 12:51:15 AM
Biggest problem with Vista was Superfetch was a pile of shit. It's a big cause of the 'is it swapping? is it indexing? is it destroying my HDD for NO GODDAMN REASON?' issue.

Turn it off, and Vista is manageable. It's just, 7 does everything Vista did, but so much better, without any new and unneeded features. 8 is 'hey, we can be apple too'. Which is a big concern in the consumer marketplace, but business will hate 8 almost as much as it hated Vista. Perhaps even more.

elmicker
January 13 2012, 02:44:56 AM
Hopefully they'll do the sensible thing and include a big, obvious "TURN OFF THE SHINY SHIT AND JUST GIVE ME A DESKTOP THANKS" button.

Lana Torrin
January 13 2012, 06:46:00 AM
Biggest problem with Vista was Superfetch was a pile of shit. It's a big cause of the 'is it swapping? is it indexing? is it destroying my HDD for NO GODDAMN REASON?' issue.

Turn it off, and Vista is manageable. It's just, 7 does everything Vista did, but so much better, without any new and unneeded features. 8 is 'hey, we can be apple too'. Which is a big concern in the consumer marketplace, but business will hate 8 almost as much as it hated Vista. Perhaps even more.

I think its funny that the biggest OS vendor seems to want to copy one of the smallest...

El Capitano
January 13 2012, 08:58:05 AM
Apple's not one of the smallest, they're the second largest in terms of shipped OS installs and the largest public company in the world.

Rudolf Miller
January 13 2012, 12:51:50 PM
What's somewhat ironic about all this is Win7 adoption still hasn't really been taken up by the business environment save for business use laptops. In terms of the desktop base environment, I think the XP/lolvista/7 ratio is stupidly heavy on XP.. like in the 70% range.

And yet another OS is coming out now, with an standard UI that is massively different. Windows fragmentation in the corporate environment will only get worse. Good thing for microsoft they're finally taking XP off life support.

El Capitano
January 13 2012, 01:44:01 PM
Err...no. Windows 7's install base is considerably higher than XP's now.

Rudolf Miller
January 13 2012, 01:50:16 PM
Err...no. Windows 7's install base is considerably higher than XP's now.

On personal PC's, yes. And of course current installs would be higher than XP, because MS won't sell XP to corporate entities anymore. I'm talking about existing computers and which OS they have. Not install rates.

Skidrowpunk
January 13 2012, 02:37:45 PM
XP was a fucking god shut your dirty mouth.


OK no really but at the time it was good.

El Capitano
January 13 2012, 02:40:07 PM
On personal PC's, yes. And of course current installs would be higher than XP, because MS won't sell XP to corporate entities anymore. I'm talking about existing computers and which OS they have. Not install rates.
Ok bud, how about you back up your assertion? Because in terms of overall install base, StatCounter lists Win7 overall considerably higher than XP now. If you look at, say, the U.S., the gap is even wider and in the UK it's huge.

Also, do you even know what an install base is?

Rudolf Miller
January 13 2012, 04:50:17 PM
On personal PC's, yes. And of course current installs would be higher than XP, because MS won't sell XP to corporate entities anymore. I'm talking about existing computers and which OS they have. Not install rates.
Ok bud, how about you back up your assertion? Because in terms of overall install base, StatCounter lists Win7 overall considerably higher than XP now. If you look at, say, the U.S., the gap is even wider and in the UK it's huge.

Also, do you even know what an install base is?

I'm giving you that yes, in the consumer sector XP is very quickly dying. In the corporate sector, it's not so true. You gotta remember win7 came out right as the financial crisis was shitting all over budgets, and non essential IT projects got pushed to the back burner. I'm saying that growth of win7 specifically for corporate purposes has not kept up with the adoption of consumer base win7 and as a result is creating a long tail on upgrades.

And I checked statcounter. For what I can see, there's no way to sort out personal computers vs corporate computers in terms of OS. So please go and show me the data you're talking about regarding corporate adoption of win7.

And here's my data, straight from the horses mouth of microsoft

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2011/12/06/windows-7-set-to-capture-enterprise-dominance-despite-windows-8-looming-on-the-horizon/


28% of corporate PCs run Windows 7, but a mere 10% of organizations are more than 50% complete in deploying the code to their computers;
59% of organizations that are deploying Windows 7 have moved less than 10% of their computers to the operating system;
60% of enterprise organizations are either testing or deploying Windows 7.

El Capitano
January 13 2012, 11:15:37 PM
Err...those stats aren't from Microsoft. From the press release about that study (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Softchoice-Study-Finds-iw-2798419831.html):

In January of 2011, roughly one in 10 PCs in the average environment had Windows 7 installed compared to almost one in three by the end of August.
So it's five months out of date and it shows the rollout happening so fast that Win7 could have overtaken XP by now.

Rudolf Miller
January 14 2012, 03:09:09 PM
Err...those stats aren't from Microsoft. From the press release about that study (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Softchoice-Study-Finds-iw-2798419831.html):

In January of 2011, roughly one in 10 PCs in the average environment had Windows 7 installed compared to almost one in three by the end of August.
So it's five months out of date and it shows the rollout happening so fast that Win7 could have overtaken XP by now.

In case you didn't take a good look, both of our articles were posted Dec 6th and both took data from Softchoice. I will admit I was wrong about my original 70% assertion since it seems that was 5 months ago now. It may be in the low 60s at this point. That's a fuckton of PCs in 5 months, but it's certainly possible by now.

/painful derailment

El Capitano
January 15 2012, 06:24:14 PM
And the data from Softchoice talks about the install base at the end of August.

Loganbacca
January 16 2012, 01:41:47 AM
I would probably agree with a large percentage of corporate pc's still running XP. Our Win 7 upgrade project has been going since before I started working here, so probably around 2 years. Currently we most likely have less than 5 pc's running 7, one of them being mine because I'm tired of using XP, and the rest being testing PCs. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes on until after Win 8 launches either. The key slowdown has been incompatible programs.

Lana Torrin
January 16 2012, 01:51:24 AM
Apple's not one of the smallest, they're the second largest in terms of shipped OS installs and the largest public company in the world.

Essentially there are 3 major OSs out there. Windows, OSX and Linux/Unix.. You are unlikely to find linux/unix sales anywhere because people just (usually) buy bare metal and install it themselves.. While I understand this is not completely true for all businesses and im only a single point of reference, I have never seen a business with an OSX network.. The most I have ever seen is a few OSX machines being used by artists. I have however seen literately millions of Windows desktops and servers (my currently employer has about 1200 Windows servers and god know how many hundreds of thousands of desktops) and several thousand linux/unix installs (almost all server, but a few desktops, probably at about the same ratio of OSX desktops).

Don't delude yourself, Apple may be the company that sells the second highest number of OSs, but it isn't the 2nd largest install base by a long shot. (And before we get in to the apple/windows hating, I have both at home and prefer OSX, but I prefer supporting Win7/Server2008 at work)

El Capitano
January 16 2012, 08:59:35 AM
Statcounter disagrees with you, it puts OS X somewhere between 5 and 10 times the install base of Linux, in terms of desktop share. If you want to talk in terms of anything that could be called an OS, then we do enter muddier waters, but then there's be little difference in "size" between Apple and MS thanks to iOS.

Itiken
September 18 2012, 03:58:11 PM
After nuking my work desktop, and having a pretty chill week on the cards, this week became "Windows 8 desktop" week.
After an hour of "WTF is this shit", I mellowed out, then spent an hour fiddling with the start screen thing and other bits and bobs.
Now i love it. Don't be blinkered, once you bother the new UI is awesome. "Forcing" a start menu on it is akin to forcing Win96(2k etc) to use a 3.1 interface.

But, most of the cool is due to being a "windows 7 power user" already. if you already treated 7 like 95, this will mess you right up (yes, You, over there, with the desktop icons) but if you use all the funky "quick search for program / file / app" parts of 7 then you will be golden.

ps. statcounter won't count all the millions of old linux boxes companies have squirreled away in dark corners put there for individual quick purposes, like the nagios box, the syslog server, the mail relays on your dmz.... all this kind of thing.

Muffinsrevenger
September 18 2012, 05:13:45 PM
Been running Win8 RT on my main machine for about two weeks now (or more?), so far everything has been beyond expectations

whispous
September 18 2012, 06:21:09 PM
Been running Win8 RT on my main machine for about two weeks now (or more?), so far everything has been beyond expectations

Windows RT? Isn't that the one for ARM?

Pattern
September 18 2012, 06:52:57 PM
Been running Win8 RT on my main machine for about two weeks now (or more?), so far everything has been beyond expectations

Frysquint.jpg

sent from a fone

Muffinsrevenger
September 18 2012, 07:53:04 PM
Been running Win8 RT on my main machine for about two weeks now (or more?), so far everything has been beyond expectations

Windows RT? Isn't that the one for ARM?

I may have got the name for the "proper full release" mixed up with the pad one, but if that actually happened then clearly it was your fault

whispous
September 18 2012, 08:00:48 PM
RTM

Itiken
September 18 2012, 08:53:39 PM
Been running Win8 RT on my main machine for about two weeks now (or more?), so far everything has been beyond expectations

Windows RT? Isn't that the one for ARM?

I may have got the name for the "proper full release" mixed up with the pad one, but if that actually happened then clearly it was your fault

In case you cae the "final" is now on MSDN/Volume license distribution.
At least i think it's final. it says "release" on it.
and yeah, it's fucking cool once you man up and get over the lack of 1995 features.
Then again, i know loads of people butthurt, still, about the lack of "quick launch bar" in Windows 7.
Fucking users.
Can i kill em all ?

Muffinsrevenger
September 18 2012, 08:57:59 PM
Been running Win8 RT on my main machine for about two weeks now (or more?), so far everything has been beyond expectations

Windows RT? Isn't that the one for ARM?

I may have got the name for the "proper full release" mixed up with the pad one, but if that actually happened then clearly it was your fault
In case you cae the "final" is now on MSDN/Volume license distribution.


Ayup, gogo gadget dreamspark!



Fucking users.
Can i kill em all ?

Yes, this would be the optimal way to solve the problem

Frug
September 18 2012, 09:10:09 PM
Speaking of tablets, I hear Windows is being really smart about how they're pricing their tablets. (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/136368-leaked-windows-8-tablet-pricing-suggests-microsoft-may-have-already-lost-the-war-and-its-marbles) (well, how they're charging licenses)

:|

Bombcrater
September 18 2012, 09:52:21 PM
Been playing with the RTM build for a few days. I don't hate it quite as much as the preview versions, there's clearly a lot of optimisation work gone into some areas - the display system in particular has been given a big drink of go faster juice - but the interface still feels alien and only half thought out.

But I'm slowly becoming convinced Win 8 is the single worst version of Windows ever, because MS seems to have gone 100% Apple: choices are bad and must be banished. Whether that makes it a bad operating system is something I guess the market will decide.

Itiken
September 18 2012, 11:01:40 PM
Speaking of tablets, I hear Windows is being really smart about how they're pricing their tablets. (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/136368-leaked-windows-8-tablet-pricing-suggests-microsoft-may-have-already-lost-the-war-and-its-marbles) (well, how they're charging licenses)

:|
1/10
ps. you mean "Asus have been really smart".. not Frug.

For bonus points, Google loss leader, and extrapolate to Surface


MS seems to have gone 100% Apple: choices are bad and must be banished. Which choices are banished exactly?

Bombcrater
September 19 2012, 12:07:38 AM
Which choices are banished exactly?
Versions of Windows since 95 have always give at least some scope to back away from major UI changes.

Don't like the new start menu or Luna interface in XP? No problem, there are 9x style alternatives. Don't like Aero in Vista? No problem, turn it off.

Windows 8 has mostly done away with that. Liked the start menu? Too damn bad. Want to boot directly to the desktop? You can't. Options to deviate from the out-of-box environment have drastically cut down compared to previous versions.

Dislike Metro on a non-touch system? Tough shit, you're stuck with it. Prefer Vista/7 type rounded borders and window gadgets? Computer says no, can't have em.

MS is buying in to the Apple idea that they precisely define the look and operation of the OS and the person using the thing has no say in the matter. That's (imho) a huge retrograde step.

Lana Torrin
September 19 2012, 12:44:02 AM
The biggest issue I have with win8 is that out of the box it's shit and that's how my work desktop is going to remain locked until the next UI changes for no good reason.

Also the Windows decorations look like they are from win3.1, I mean what the fuck is this.

Frug
September 19 2012, 04:12:12 AM
Speaking of tablets, I hear Windows is being really smart about how they're pricing their tablets. (http://www.extremetech.com/computing/136368-leaked-windows-8-tablet-pricing-suggests-microsoft-may-have-already-lost-the-war-and-its-marbles) (well, how they're charging licenses)

:|
1/10
ps. you mean "Asus have been really smart".. not Frug.

For bonus points, Google loss leader, and extrapolate to Surface


MS seems to have gone 100% Apple: choices are bad and must be banished. Which choices are banished exactly?

i'm being informed that my article was terrible. The comments in the article also agree it was terrible. Perhaps it was terrible. The author is a bit meh in general and he likes to make click bait articles.

The guy is trying to say that it's their licensing fees that are responsible for these terrible prices and so it won't get any better later. IMO he's right that they should seriously consider minimizing any fees they're charging.

Itiken
September 19 2012, 09:57:17 AM
I should pay more attention and poast less at midnight :)

See what you mean, though i'm constantly bored, or possibly jaded by "product x is going to fail" articles from analysts who time and again get proved to be idiots.


At launch it will be expensive. at launch it will sell loads. It will get cheaper. The end
I should be an analyst - i wonder if techcrunch will hire me!


The biggest issue I have with win8 is that out of the box it's shit and that's how my work desktop is going to remain locked until the next UI changes for no good reason.
Also the Windows decorations look like they are from win3.1, I mean what the fuck is this.
If you don't like it you don't like it, but calling "i don't like it so it is shit" is pretty far fetched.
Rounded corners? Pseudo-transparent edges? Fluff snap? No thanks. All I have ever wanted is a fast, functional, smooth UI which this delivers. In spades. Or squirrels. Or something.

having a UI eating 30% of your system resources is hopefully a thing of the past. I guess if you want pretty shiny borders now you can use a Mac - they are for creatives right?

Going back to what I said earlier. Windows has always been plagued by old. 95 suers wanted 3.1 interface. 2k users wanted 95. XP wanted 2000, vista/7 wanted XP. Times change. Move on. Embrace it etc.

Frug
September 19 2012, 02:21:43 PM
I have yet to touch windows 8 and the argument that an OS designed for touch is bad for a mouse makes perfect sense. But change isn't bad and some parts I do like the sound of.

One thing I am a big proponent of, which windows has always understood and mac has never understood (and which I'm always telling people but nobody seems to care about), is hot corners. Moving a mouse to the very top right of a window will close it (no need to adjust slightly to actually click on the red x, you can't click to the right of the x or above it, you just jam the cursor as far as it will go). Moving to the bottom left corner and clicking opens the start menu, no need to aim at the little windows logo. The very bottom right in win 7 became the show desktop, which was brilliant. Chrome and then firefox got tabs on the top of their windows, meaning you no longer have to aim vertically (they have infinite vertical space since you can't go past them). I love shit like that. I love being able to be quick on a UI even if I'm half asleep, drunk, or just lazy. Win8 sounds like it kept going in that direction.

Itiken
September 19 2012, 02:44:55 PM
I have yet to touch windows 8 and the argument that an OS designed for touch is bad for a mouse makes perfect sense.

All of the Keyboard stuff still works though: windows key pops up your Start "page", win-r win-e, win-m, win-l, alt-tab, win-tab - everything. Once apps are running, they are exactly like in win7 (with less shiny eating your clock cycles). Want to search your start page? hit start (or bottom-left and click) and start typing, apps are searched sorted and arranged. New apps auto-pin and can then be tidied/sorted/unpinned at will.

If anything the new start page is a progression forwards (YMMV) from the "pin apps to start bar" functionality which was awesome, but limited by a small start bar. The only thing I've not yet seen / had appear is "recent commonly used programs" appearing by magic, but that may yet come.

Oh and the taskbar (plus pinning) is still there. It even auto-spreads across multiple screens with pinned apps on all, and apps on monitor 1 appearing on taskbar 1 2->2 etc. You can even have one horizontal and one vertical, or both vertical on opposite sides of your screen. it's boss :)

(yeah i know i'm such a fanboy \o/)

Lana Torrin
September 19 2012, 03:03:56 PM
One thing I am a big proponent of, which windows has always understood and mac has never understood (and which I'm always telling people but nobody seems to care about), is hot corners.

You have that backwards right?


Moving a mouse to the very top right of a window will close it (no need to adjust slightly to actually click on the red x, you can't click to the right of the x or above it, you just jam the cursor as far as it will go). Moving to the bottom left corner and clicking opens the start menu, no need to aim at the little windows logo.

Sounds awesome. Try doing this is a VM or via RDP that isn't full screen. Miss slightly and the mouse is outside the window now so it doesn't trigger. You have to position the mouse EXACTLY on the single pixel in the corner and click or it doesn't work. I'd rather aim for a target that is big and round and looks like a target.

Last time I ran Win8, dual screens didn't work. You got 2 screens, but the clicky app background things were the same on both screens.

Also the argument "Not having your OS using 30% of your resources" is retarded and always has been. You aren't using your graphics card pipelines sitting on your desktop, so why not let the OS makes things pretty. Once you start to need it Win7 gets out of the way. Still don't like it? Turn it off, there is an option for that, there always has been.

The 'its shit' comment was about the widgets. The default selection is (was anyway) pretty limited and useless, and with the machine locked down to a domain, guess what, you cant change it without being an admin (or couldn't). Its horrible for business users.

Its not even a step forward. Windows 98 had active desktops that showed content grabbed from the web and other applications. Guess what, everyone turned it off. It was bad then and this new generation is just as bad.

Frug
September 19 2012, 04:36:27 PM
You have that backwards right?
The last time I used a mac was 2 years ago and my experience was that no, I don't have it backwards. Mac windows don't maximize the same way, the whole OS appeared designed to have floating windows as opposed to locked, maximized windows that behave as I've described here. So if you have a point to make, explain.



Sounds awesome. Try doing this is a VM or via RDP that isn't full screen. Miss slightly and the mouse is outside the window now so it doesn't trigger. You have to position the mouse EXACTLY on the single pixel in the corner and click or it doesn't work. I'd rather aim for a target that is big and round and looks like a target.
I find your hypothesis that mac buttons are bigger targets than the windows ones intriguing. This was not my experience either. It sounds like you're confusing what I've explained about window buttons that are present in win 7 with traditional hot corners or something, in which case you should probably re-read my post.

However I find your example of "it doesn't work when I RDP" to be quite retarded. I RDP in all the time and it works exactly the same. If you don't have the window fullscreened, and you're attempting to use this as an argument, I really can't express how dumb that sounds.

Regardless of how dumb that argument is, I spend 90% of my time not in RDP and don't need a GUI design to work around what I do 10% of the time.

Itiken
September 19 2012, 04:44:10 PM
This thread is going palaces now.
Clicking on red X's in a RDP session is hard?

Also confirming pressing the corner buttons on a mac is annoying, especially as the intuitive "top right" does something weird, I forget what. Or are they top-left? I forget.

I had no idea though that you could just "top-right click" - all these years I've been "precisely lining up" my cursor on the little X. Or thought I had. maybe I've been missing for years.
:psyduck:
Thanks Frug, you have now totally messed up my head. I'm going to the pub.

Pattern
September 19 2012, 04:45:22 PM
I think Lana Torrin is taking about hot corners (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/08/26/mac-101-dont-forget-about-hot-corners/) in Expose. A completely different thing from what you're talking about.

In the last couple of versions - OSX has been all about full screen windows with gesture (touch pad/touch mouse) control which work great on a laptop, but just doesn't work at all on a milti-monitor setup.

Bombcrater
September 19 2012, 07:01:00 PM
Going back to what I said earlier. Windows has always been plagued by old. 95 suers wanted 3.1 interface. 2k users wanted 95. XP wanted 2000, vista/7 wanted XP.
That's a major exaggeration. The vast bulk of gripes from people upgrading to a new Windows version have almost always been about compatibility and performance. The one and only time the UI became a major issue was the XP/Vista switch, but that was purely down to the huge number of XP users who'd never experienced anything else. Vista was so different it was going to get flack from those people regardless of how good the UI was, and Vista being pushed out early with some rough edges in the interface just gave them ammo.

The Win 8 transition is completely different from past versions. The UI is the only issue here. Regardless of whether you like the 8 UI or not, it's pretty clear it hasn't been designed for the 99% of PCs that have large (ie, not tablet size) screens and no touch capability.

What really concerns me is not so much Win 8 - with some hacks it's a passable desktop O/S - but what Windows 9 will probably be like if MS continues on this path. Metro as the only UI with the Win32 API deprecated and desktop apps only accessible via Metro VM tile (Hyper-V is already in Win 8). No way of having more than two apps on screen at the same time, resolutions above 1366x768 basically useless. Essentially Windows Phone booting on a PC with some basic legacy app capability for corporate use.

Lana Torrin
September 22 2012, 01:41:12 PM
I think Lana Torrin is taking about hot corners (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/08/26/mac-101-dont-forget-about-hot-corners/) in Expose. A completely different thing from what you're talking about.

In the last couple of versions - OSX has been all about full screen windows with gesture (touch pad/touch mouse) control which work great on a laptop, but just doesn't work at all on a milti-monitor setup.

Sorry for not responding.. I was.. I completely misinterpreted what was said.

My point about the windows menu still stands however, as that's what you have to do to get it up in win8 now, hover in the bottom left. (Heaven forbid you need to shut a machine down)

Lana Torrin
September 22 2012, 01:45:56 PM
Going back to what I said earlier. Windows has always been plagued by old. 95 suers wanted 3.1 interface. 2k users wanted 95. XP wanted 2000, vista/7 wanted XP.
That's a major exaggeration. The vast bulk of gripes from people upgrading to a new Windows version have almost always been about compatibility and performance. The one and only time the UI became a major issue was the XP/Vista switch, but that was purely down to the huge number of XP users who'd never experienced anything else. Vista was so different it was going to get flack from those people regardless of how good the UI was, and Vista being pushed out early with some rough edges in the interface just gave them ammo.

The Win 8 transition is completely different from past versions. The UI is the only issue here. Regardless of whether you like the 8 UI or not, it's pretty clear it hasn't been designed for the 99% of PCs that have large (ie, not tablet size) screens and no touch capability.

What really concerns me is not so much Win 8 - with some hacks it's a passable desktop O/S - but what Windows 9 will probably be like if MS continues on this path. Metro as the only UI with the Win32 API deprecated and desktop apps only accessible via Metro VM tile (Hyper-V is already in Win 8). No way of having more than two apps on screen at the same time, resolutions above 1366x768 basically useless. Essentially Windows Phone booting on a PC with some basic legacy app capability for corporate use.

You know whats funny.. Using android on a PC with a large, non-touch screen isn't horrible.. I don't know why I can tolerate droid on the desktop, but not windows 8...

Stoffl
September 24 2012, 07:43:16 AM
Which choices are banished exactly?
Versions of Windows since 95 have always give at least some scope to back away from major UI changes.

Don't like the new start menu or Luna interface in XP? No problem, there are 9x style alternatives. Don't like Aero in Vista? No problem, turn it off.

Windows 8 has mostly done away with that. Liked the start menu? Too damn bad. Want to boot directly to the desktop? You can't. Options to deviate from the out-of-box environment have drastically cut down compared to previous versions.

Dislike Metro on a non-touch system? Tough shit, you're stuck with it. Prefer Vista/7 type rounded borders and window gadgets? Computer says no, can't have em.

MS is buying in to the Apple idea that they precisely define the look and operation of the OS and the person using the thing has no say in the matter. That's (imho) a huge retrograde step.

Even MS employees have no fucking clue what management is trying to achieve with this and expect a debacle similar to :Vista:

Apart from the whole MetroUI shitfest, vertical scrolling on errything ? On a desktop ? Really ?

EntroX
October 1 2012, 10:26:00 PM
now with 100% more retarded shit during install...

http://pics.stoleyour.com/Screen_Shot_2012-10-01_at_5.17.31_PM.png

...and 100% more captcha!

http://pics.stoleyour.com/Screen_Shot_2012-10-01_at_5.22.18_PM.png

tulip
October 1 2012, 11:11:36 PM
There's a captcha when installing windows 8? Why? Do they have a proprietary auto-installer they want you to buy?

Amantus
October 1 2012, 11:44:48 PM
are you fucking serious is there really a captcha for installing windows


why

Lana Torrin
October 2 2012, 12:35:37 AM
are you fucking serious is there really a captcha for installing windows


why

It's cool man.

tulip
October 2 2012, 12:42:57 AM
are you fucking serious is there really a captcha for installing windows


why

It's cool man.

Perhaps it's an anti-AI measure, give the operating systems captchas so they cannot reproduce independently. Predicting a dystopian future where humans are raised in farms plugged into a sophisticated VR against their will, forced to interpret over italicised text for their windows 8 overlords.

No, but really, why?

Lana Torrin
October 2 2012, 01:27:54 AM
are you fucking serious is there really a captcha for installing windows


why

It's cool man.

Perhaps it's an anti-AI measure, give the operating systems captchas so they cannot reproduce independently. Predicting a dystopian future where humans are raised in farms plugged into a sophisticated VR against their will, forced to interpret over italicised text for their windows 8 overlords.

No, but really, why?

At a guess I would say it's to sign you up to some online thing and MS is too stupid to realise of they are signing you up too something in their own software they can encrypt it with something like your product key.

That or they are getting you in to the ' its the internet' mindset.

Sent from my PadFone using Tapatalk 2

EntroX
October 2 2012, 02:24:19 AM
if you don't have a microsoft account you have to register one, so i presume its calling a web service to do that.

but honestly, there are dozens of better ways of doing that than throwing a god damn captcha /o\

Amantus
October 2 2012, 03:31:01 AM
i will not be getting winders 8 it sounds super fucking gay

Loganbacca
October 2 2012, 07:24:59 AM
Surely it doesn't do that with the enterprise version?

Sofia Roseburn
October 2 2012, 08:02:25 AM
Surely it doesn't do that with the enterprise version?

That's a very good question.

whispous
October 2 2012, 08:53:42 AM
if you don't have a microsoft account you have to register one, so i presume its calling a web service to do that.

but honestly, there are dozens of better ways of doing that than throwing a god damn captcha /o\

what if Windows 8 doesn't yet have your network drivers?

Stoffl
October 2 2012, 09:04:53 AM
Surely it doesn't do that with the enterprise version?

That's a very good question.

Like the enterprise version would surely allow to disable the Metro UI with a simple switch.

Rite guys ?
Guys ?


Or like the fancy new mobile device management part of SCCM requires you to give Microsoft access to your Active Directory.
Totally not a dealbreaker for corporate networks.

@Whispous
Well you can call the amazing international Microsoft hotline

halbarad
October 2 2012, 09:08:45 AM
I recall a skip button or similar to ignore the "sign into microsoft account" page. I got past it fine but I guess most normal users won't think of trying that.

Itiken
October 2 2012, 09:42:50 AM
Surely it doesn't do that with the enterprise version?

It doesn't but that's not the point.
it is in fact exactly the same as setting up an android device. Probably an Apple device too. I've never set one up though so ymmv, but from a conversation i once overheard you probably attach it to your iCloud. If you don't skip it, you get that screen. OH MY GOD MICROSOFT WHAT ARE YOU DOING OMG!!!


I recall a skip button or similar to ignore the "sign into microsoft account" page. I got past it fine but I guess most normal users won't think of trying that. Yeah but most users are crybaby nittpicking self proclaimed "it pros" who can't find a skip button 8-)


At a guess I would say it's to sign you up to some online thing and MS is too stupid to realise of they are signing you up too something in their own software they can encrypt it with something like your product key.
Yep that is a GENUIUS idea. I can't see how that could be abused at all.
:facepalm:

And stoffl, really, stop posting.
Really.

:popcorn:

Stoffl
October 2 2012, 09:47:29 AM
lol ?
Why ?

Because you don't agree with my opinion ?

Or are you saying what I said is factually wrong ?

*edit*
Oh the captcha thing, rite.

Apart from that do you really think business users won't ignore Win8 ?

Itiken
October 2 2012, 09:57:13 AM
what opinion?
ok sorry sorry sorry - i am obviousness foolish in doubting your pro and relish the experience of learning why you hand keys to your AD to Microsoft to manage a phone.....

Stoffl
October 2 2012, 10:12:53 AM
Yes you are, see pm. ;)

Lana Torrin
October 2 2012, 10:27:22 AM
At a guess I would say it's to sign you up to some online thing and MS is too stupid to realise of they are signing you up too something in their own software they can encrypt it with something like your product key.
Yep that is a GENUIUS idea. I can't see how that could be abused at all.
:facepalm:

Neither the gmail or iwhatever accounts that the phones recommended you set up have ever required a captua. I guess Microsoft not being able to manage what everyone else can do is a nonshock really.

Sent from my PadFone using Tapatalk 2

Rudolf Miller
October 2 2012, 12:26:48 PM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

Ohai! I'm fucking Nostradamus of Microsoft.

Stoffl
October 2 2012, 12:29:24 PM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

Ohai! I'm fucking Nostradamus of Microsoft.

Sry to ruin your fun but once again you left out Win2k. ;P

Rudolf Miller
October 2 2012, 01:02:24 PM
Here's the sad part. Let's go over Windows releases starting at Win95

Win95 - Pretty good
Win 98 V1- Pretty fucking terrible
Win 98 V2- Saving grace of V1
Windows ME- TROLOLOLOLOL terribad
Windows XP - One of the best and most durable released by MS in the modern GUI era
Windows Vista- No. No No No.
Windows 7 - *Angelic Choir*
Windows 8................

One must wonder.

Ohai! I'm fucking Nostradamus of Microsoft.

Sry to ruin your fun but once again you left out Win2k. ;P

Don't ruin my fun with facts

EntroX
October 2 2012, 03:31:09 PM
also Vista was fine, only reason why it was "bad" is because microsoft listened to retards (aka consumers) and left all the old-shit compatibility that made the OS a slow piece of shit.

Stoffl
October 2 2012, 03:33:02 PM
And UAC being utterly shit and over the top with default settings.

Rudolf Miller
October 2 2012, 03:42:50 PM
also Vista was fine, only reason why it was "bad" is because microsoft listened to retards (aka consumers) and left all the old-shit compatibility that made the OS a slow piece of shit.

Gonna go ahead and call bullshit here. MS got way over their head with advanced OS design and to be honest, more than 2/3 of all consumer grade hardware at the time of vista's release simply couldn't work with vista's minimum spec (512mb of RAM totally will support Vista Home Premium *stamps the POS $300 laptop with a sticker*). To boot, peripheral manufacturers and drivers lagged behind the release of the OS in a crippling manner. On top of all that, like Win 8 is about to do, it's going to throw users into a completely new environment with little recourse that to 'just deal with it'. It's going to go poorly.

EntroX
October 2 2012, 03:50:19 PM
also Vista was fine, only reason why it was "bad" is because microsoft listened to retards (aka consumers) and left all the old-shit compatibility that made the OS a slow piece of shit.

Gonna go ahead and call bullshit here. MS got way over their head with advanced OS design and to be honest, more than 2/3 of all consumer grade hardware at the time of vista's release simply couldn't work with vista's minimum spec (512mb of RAM totally will support Vista Home Premium *stamps the POS $300 laptop with a sticker*). To boot, peripheral manufacturers and drivers lagged behind the release of the OS in a crippling manner. On top of all that, like Win 8 is about to do, it's going to throw users into a completely new environment with little recourse that to 'just deal with it'. It's going to go poorly.

...so you are saying the reason the OS failed was because the hardware was shit?, i had Vista pretty much since release (64bit version) and i never came to hate it vOv

whispous
October 2 2012, 03:54:45 PM
Vista was bad because all the good features were hidden beneath terrible layers of awful interface decisions

whispous
October 2 2012, 03:55:04 PM
if you don't have a microsoft account you have to register one, so i presume its calling a web service to do that.

but honestly, there are dozens of better ways of doing that than throwing a god damn captcha /o\

what if Windows 8 doesn't yet have your network drivers?

also this again

EntroX
October 2 2012, 07:44:55 PM
if you don't have a microsoft account you have to register one, so i presume its calling a web service to do that.

but honestly, there are dozens of better ways of doing that than throwing a god damn captcha /o\

what if Windows 8 doesn't yet have your network drivers?

also this again

i assume then you can't use their apple'esque email based login i guess vOv

whispous
October 2 2012, 07:46:45 PM
if you don't have a microsoft account you have to register one, so i presume its calling a web service to do that.

but honestly, there are dozens of better ways of doing that than throwing a god damn captcha /o\

what if Windows 8 doesn't yet have your network drivers?

also this again

i assume then you can't use their apple'esque email based login i guess vOv

Which means, if you don't NEED to register to install Windows 8, why try and force people to?

Pattern
October 2 2012, 07:47:03 PM
No retail torrent leak out yet? Was hoping to do install on a fresh ssd without a brand new install two weeks later...