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CYZLAK
April 12 2011, 02:16:16 PM
[Daredevil, Kapoopen Truck]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Fourier Transform I Tracking Program

Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Gistii B-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
[empty rig slot]

whispous
April 12 2011, 02:33:37 PM
Two magstabs or fail

Rudolf Miller
April 12 2011, 04:07:27 PM
tankless?

Raz
April 12 2011, 04:24:56 PM
My slightly pimped variation on Prom's fit that I'm quite fond of:

[Daredevil]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Coreli C-type Small Armor Repairer
Internal Force Field Array

Catalyzed Cold-gas Arcjet Thrusters
Dread Guristas Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor

Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S
Salvager I (offline)
Light Neutron Blaster II, Null S

Small Hybrid Ambit Extension II
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I
Ancillary Current Router I

369 o/h DPS with CN Antimatter at 7.5kms
294 o/h DPS with Null at 10.7kms
412 o/h DPS with Void for Rapiers and such

C-type SAR is cheap for a bit more rep per cycle and a little more cap efficiency. Not that the ship tanks per se, but the rep can make the difference in a tough fight and it's good for prolonged roaming. Kills other shorter ranged, tankier and/or more expensive DD fits, Drams, etc and does it quickly. T2 ambit is well worth the price.

CYZLAK
April 12 2011, 05:07:21 PM
Two magstabs or fail
range setup

Tyrus Tenebros
April 12 2011, 10:15:29 PM
[Daredevil, FactionMagStab]
'Chainmail' 200mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
[empty rig slot]

Fit I actually fly. Is amazing vs. other frigates. I believe I may switch down to Nos + Ions though. Still insane dps, doesn't die hilariously to a single medium neut.

whispous
April 12 2011, 10:46:13 PM
Two magstabs or fail
range setup

Then fit rails and two magstabs

CYZLAK
April 13 2011, 03:46:23 AM
Two magstabs or fail
range setup

Then fit rails and two magstabs
No tracking, less DPS even with 2xmagstab

Wensley
April 13 2011, 08:01:48 AM
Two magstabs or fail
range setup

Then fit rails and two magstabs
No tracking, less DPS even with 2xmagstab

You have a 90% web and no afterburner. I don't think tracking is going to be much of an issue.

CYZLAK
April 13 2011, 02:37:08 PM
Two magstabs or fail
range setup

Then fit rails and two magstabs
No tracking, less DPS even with 2xmagstab

You have a 90% web and no afterburner. I don't think tracking is going to be much of an issue.
Less DPS.

whispous
April 13 2011, 03:48:28 PM
Less DPS.


:psyduck:

Meridius Dex
April 19 2011, 10:00:31 PM
1. Hit Approach, overheat mids for tackle
2. Bulldog into point blank range
3. Blaze away at optimal doing 435 DPS
4. Profit??

[Daredevil, Kick Ass 372/1/4990/4K]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Overdrive Injector System II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Salvager I /OFFLINE
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Auxiliary Thrusters I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

4600 m/s, 6657 w/heat. Meager resistance tank makes for scary moments but it should melt most stuff before it can be melted (4200 EHP); but can it melt a Dram before it dies? Speed in the lows/rigs necessary to ensure the velocity is equal versus an AB/web/scram fit Dramiel that shuts off my mwd.

This is my first week playing around with the pirate frigs, so feel free to point out the derp. :popcorn:

Raz
April 19 2011, 10:10:53 PM
[Daredevil, Kick Ass 372/1/4990/4K]
...
Small Core Defence Field Extender I


wat

The fit I posted earlier in this thread has alot more versatility. You get more range to compensate for a lower base speed and that will hold you in better stead for most fights. Plus the SAR helps in some fights and is good for roaming duration.

Meridius Dex
April 19 2011, 10:42:59 PM
Well, I'm not roaming in 0.0 so reps between fights are no big deal, and the amount of armor repaired in most frig fights (lasting on average 30-50 seconds) isn't much. There really isn't much difference in tank.

You spend a lot on the faction web and devote much rig space to range. I get the idea of orbiting near 10K with Null but don't you lose a lot of DPS that way? Why not crash into point blank range with overheated guns and just melt face? This thing can do damage like a blaster catalyst.

Tyrus Tenebros
April 19 2011, 10:48:33 PM
Well, I'm not roaming in 0.0 so reps between fights are no big deal, and the amount of armor repaired in most frig fights (lasting on average 30-50 seconds) isn't much. There really isn't much difference in tank.

You spend a lot on the faction web and devote much rig space to range. I get the idea of orbiting near 10K with Null but don't you lose a lot of DPS that way? Why not crash into point blank range with overheated guns and just melt face? This thing can do damage like a blaster catalyst.Your EHP is so low that you die to basically everything.

Raz
April 19 2011, 10:55:59 PM
You spend a lot on the faction web and devote much rig space to range. I get the idea of orbiting near 10K with Null but don't you lose a lot of DPS that way? Why not crash into point blank range with overheated guns and just melt face? This thing can do damage like a blaster catalyst.

It's a scram not a web and they're not that pricey and you can always downgrade to fit a lower-ranged named. But I find the scram range is helpful sometimes.

And the range isn't just to allow you to orbit at 10k (not that you orbit much in any circumstance given the DD's tracking). "crashing into point blank range" is nice in theory but if you're scrammed and they're 90% webbed it can still take a good amount of time to close into effective blaster range.

Some ships like a Dramiel with an overheated AB are fast enough that unless you're able to get on top of them immediately you'll be dead before you're able to crawl into range. If something has a web as well, then it's even more difficult. I've found the best way to fly the DD is to have effective DPS further since it's all a race given your low EHP.

sassy b
April 19 2011, 11:19:23 PM
I'd say as a general rule of thumb you're probably doing it wrong if you put an OD/Nano/Istab in your lows on any pvp frigate that fights in scramrange. There's always something better to squeeze on for more gank or survivability.

Well, I'm not roaming in 0.0 so reps between fights are no big deal, and the amount of armor repaired in most frig fights (lasting on average 30-50 seconds) isn't much. There really isn't much difference in tank.I think its a pretty big difference. Lets say you're in a 30 second fight, and you dont start repping for 5 secs or so till you're hitting armor. 25 seconds of heated reps with a 3.825 cycle is 6 full reps doing 96.8 armor each. Thats 580 armor, a bit less than 1k ehp, which is about an extra 25% total ehp over the course of the fight. And thats in the shortest gankiest fights where reppers are least useful.

I get the idea of orbiting near 10K with Null but don't you lose a lot of DPS that way? Why not crash into point blank range with overheated guns and just melt face?Boosting falloff isnt just so you can use the very edge of it, its also a ghetto damagemod at any range beyond optimal.

Meridius Dex
April 19 2011, 11:34:50 PM
Your EHP is so low that you die to basically everything.
So is Raz's, even with that small rep; so are most DD fits I've seen. Yours fits a plate and you only could pull it off without totally gimping the damage output by fitting a 75m faction magstab and a T2 damage rig. In fact, between the chainmail plate, IFFA, magstab and all you've more than doubled the cost of the most expensive pirate frig out there. Not worth it on any frigate hull, in my opinion. You'll still get baked by anything ganky enough to pin you down, only a few more seconds after I would've died.


And the range isn't just to allow you to orbit at 10k (not that you orbit much in any circumstance given the DD's tracking). "crashing into point blank range" is nice in theory but if you're scrammed and they're 90% webbed it can still take a good amount of time to close into effective blaster range.
Fair point. I guess I was thinking that momentum on a fast burn-in would carry me close enough to keep range the 20 seconds or less it would take to kill most stuff with 435 overheated dps.


Some ships like a Dramiel with an overheated AB are fast enough that unless you're able to get on top of them immediately you'll be dead before you're able to crawl into range. If something has a web as well, then it's even more difficult. I've found the best way to fly the DD is to have effective DPS further since it's all a race given your low EHP. Certainly the Dram is the toughest nut to crack. So you load Null by default and kite at tackle range, unless the target is slow/big enough that switching to Void before the fight and closing is worth it?

Meridius Dex
April 19 2011, 11:43:38 PM
I'd say as a general rule of thumb you're probably doing it wrong if you put an OD/Nano/Istab in your lows on any pvp frigate that fights in scramrange. There's always something better to squeeze on for more gank or survivability.
I just didn't see much else worth fitting there; for the lows perhaps an ANP but it hardly added anything to EHP. For the rig, not much could be put there other than another CFDE, again not much additional tank. I was just focusing on speed for the reasons I outlined in my previous reply for dealing with an AB/web Dram.


I think its a pretty big difference. Lets say you're in a 30 second fight, and you dont start repping for 5 secs or so till you're hitting armor. 25 seconds of heated reps with a 3.825 cycle is 6 full reps doing 96.8 armor each. Thats 580 armor, a bit less than 1k ehp, which is about an extra 25% total ehp over the course of the fight. And thats in the shortest gankiest fights where reppers are least useful. Fair enough; I saw those numbers for 34 DPS being repped by the small repper and the just over 1000 points of EHP it would translate to in 30 seconds. I guess it would be worth it, not sure why I was unimpressed the first time around, probably again due to the focus on speed and charging in.

Raz
April 19 2011, 11:50:59 PM
Certainly the Dram is the toughest nut to crack.

Hardly, Drams are pretty easy kills in a DD all in all. AB/web/scram active tanked Ishkurs, Navy Slicers, Sabres and plated Wolfs are all much tougher and riskier fights.

Tyrus Tenebros
April 20 2011, 01:08:58 AM
Any T2 gallente or even caldari will give you a run due to the resist bonuses.

Slicers are nasty due to inability to catch them (but if you do... byebye slicer)

High tank Jags or maybe a reallllly luck vagawolf (or plated wolf shooting explo?) are kind of a bitch too.

spm1138
April 20 2011, 07:19:10 AM
Doesn't seem that hard to catch slicers. They're orbitting at OH faction web range anyway?

prometheus
April 20 2011, 12:28:33 PM
Use my original fit.
The extra cost of faction modules is not really worth the cost when you're just starting to fly the ship.
I personally dont bother pimping the ship anymore because I rarely have THAT much trouble catching and killing my intended target. If anything I'd put a DB web on it and call it a day.

The rep is extremely useful not just in 00.
Chaining fights, taking some damage while getting into optimal fighting ranges, burning away from targets; it all adds up and a rep is invaluable.

As for ships.
Watch out for Dramiels. They are quite unbalanced as they are MUCH faster and more agile, and can grind you down without much trouble. Hell, the fit I flew was 300 dps with 8k of tank and would laughly hysterically at a DD. Reason I don't fly it is because its way way way too easy and just isn't fun.

Slicers can be tricky too.

Tyrus Tenebros
April 21 2011, 01:39:01 AM
Doesn't seem that hard to catch slicers. They're orbitting at OH faction web range anyway?If you want to additionally spring for a fednavy web, you can get lucky, yes. But add another 60m to the cost of the fit....

spm1138
April 21 2011, 06:56:30 AM
I wouldn't slap a faction web on a comet or whatever but the DD is expensive enough to make it not seem like overspend. I'd certainly put a FN web on a rapier for example - although to be fair the rapier isn't going to pop as quick.
I've only fought a couple of slicers so far and they've basically started the fight in hard tackle range, which is nice.

Raz
April 21 2011, 07:17:33 AM
I wouldn't slap a faction web on a comet or whatever but the DD is expensive enough to make it not seem like overspend. I'd certainly put a FN web on a rapier for example - although to be fair the rapier isn't going to pop as quick.
I've only fought a couple of slicers so far and they've basically started the fight in hard tackle range, which is nice.

The DD pulls 6km/s with an overheated Micro so I think the FN web is an unnecessary expense. Especially considering that you will inevitably lose the ship and it's already pretty expensive.

I've lost them to kiting frigs before, but mostly because I screwed up terribly. With good piloting I think you're fine without.

Girt
May 17 2011, 12:53:35 PM
iirc this is one of proms fits, slow as hell but beats Drams hands down (at least the ones I tested it against). Switch out the scram for a ss disruptor if needed for scouting/very small gangs.

[Daredevil, Railz]
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Damage Control II

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Gistii B-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Shadow Serpentis Warp Scrambler

125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Salvager I /OFFLINE

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Relevant hardwirings are a must. I don't use it enough to say how it fairs against other frigs tbh..

prometheus
May 17 2011, 01:51:30 PM
I flew a lot of shit before I settled on the best overall setup (for solo roaming.
The fit in question was actually pretty cheap aside from the guns.

It was this;
2x 125mm SS Railguns
named mwd, scram, web
dcu2, mfs2, anp2, 200mm plate
hybrid collision2, trimark

Wasn't that special, and I probably won't fly a daredevil with rails ever again unless there is something I am specifically after.

Smabs
May 17 2011, 03:09:57 PM
Is the rail setup worth using aside from just beating dramiels?

The daredevil has a cool factor but I just can't see it being worth the 80 mil or whatever you pay for it. Dramiels are easy enough to kill with a 16 mil lolharpy. I can't see a lot of reasons to fly it other than it's not a dramiel and I really like how the ship model looks.

Girt
May 17 2011, 03:28:24 PM
Is the rail setup worth using aside from just beating dramiels?

Imo yes, it's great paired with bombers for fast roaming and stops fast stuff reapproaching gates in the absence of rapiers. I'll go out on a limb and say it'll beat most frig hulls 1v1..

Having an abundance of DD bpc's will make my eventual loss mail a little less painful. Won't catch me paying 80 odd mil for one.

prometheus
May 17 2011, 05:19:17 PM
I say no.
Unless youre spending money on a faction web, rails are not as effective as falloff neutrons.
Tracking is leagues worse and it's much better to brawl down dramiel instead of kite since theyre never alone.

Plated and without a faction web, you'll have difficulty snatching the more agile ships.

This is why I stopped using rails on the dd

Raz
May 17 2011, 07:30:02 PM
The daredevil has a cool factor but I just can't see it being worth the 80 mil or whatever you pay for it. Dramiels are easy enough to kill with a 16 mil lolharpy. I can't see a lot of reasons to fly it other than it's not a dramiel and I really like how the ship model looks.

I really like the Daredevil for trying to engage tackle off blobs in 0.0. It's got excellent agility and speed. Having the lows to pack an SAR gives it a good roaming range and provides options for engaging multiple targets consecutively in a fight. The combination of 90% web and facemelting DPS allows you to kill things quickly before their friends are on top of you and doesn't involve being dragged back (or out into warp range) the entire time you're shooting at them.

I'm especially fond of the Daredevil because it can confidently kill the omnipresent Dramiels and also Rapiers which everyone and their mother flies to counter frigs these days. All that being said an MWD/web/scram FN Comet accomplishes much of the same trading off some lethality for half the isk and a lower intimidation factor.

Mamba Lev
June 16 2011, 02:47:18 PM
[Daredevil, FactionMagStab]
'Chainmail' 200mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
[empty rig slot]

Fit I actually fly. Is amazing vs. other frigates. I believe I may switch down to Nos + Ions though. Still insane dps, doesn't die hilariously to a single medium neut.

How about some credit there chief?


[Daredevil, MWD 400 Plate]
Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
'Bastion' 400mm Reinforced Steel Plates I

Domination Warp Scrambler
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Ancillary Current Router I


7.1K EHP - Thermal is the lowest resist at 43%
337 DPS - Void Overloaded - no implants
2.7Kms - no implants or boosters
3.9Kms - no implants or boosters
1.7km Optimal
2.3 km Falloff


My favourite fit, obviously higher agility and slower speed due to the plate, but with that web and the need to close to 1K to do anything agility isn't a major issue. The Faction stuff is well worth fitting, Federation web overloaded goes to 18K and combined with the MWD it shouldn't have major issues catching the kites. Used instead of the TS for the full glorious velocity factor on the web. Don't see the point in adding blaster range rigs as the bonus is so small and i would rather have more EHP.

Tried it against a couple of AF's and got properly violated, not as much use as others fighting multiple reds unless they are intys or the crapper frigates, but then a T2 fitted Merlin could kill them.

Rebelike
December 11 2011, 09:59:59 AM
I got myself a daredevil today, after the buff. It's fit the following way:


[Daredevil, RAILS]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I

Nothing special in a kiting fit, but i like the stats, 90% web and speed.

Stats(With SGZ1000 and G1-delta:
266 DPS(with heat) @10+15km range with faction antimatter
3600m/s with MWD

I flew it yesterday, and pwend a slicer. I caught him off guard, so hopefully i will test it(Read: blow it up) later today in a decent fight.

Daneel Trevize
December 11 2011, 12:06:36 PM
Javelin has increased tracking now over AM iirc, you can only point a few km beyond it's optimal, might be best?

Rebelike
December 11 2011, 03:40:26 PM
It do have better tracking, but it reduces optimal from 10km to 5km, and i don't plan on having alot of transveral with a 90% web and kiting guns ^^

I do carry it in cargo, should the need be there, tho.

prometheus
December 11 2011, 06:11:19 PM
Neutron blasters are still far better, unless you're dumping isk into a faction point...
then neutron blasters are only a little bit better.

Rebelike
December 11 2011, 07:00:51 PM
Yeah.. When i eventually get isk for a new one i will go neutrons. Rails were good, but a comet is just as good (It lact the 90% web) with rails.

Hydro
December 25 2011, 01:06:24 AM
[Daredevil, ions and nos]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Dread Guristas Stasis Webifier
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Corpii C-Type Small Nosferatu

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I

Recently got this for a buddy. It sacrifices a fair bit for the nos, but I wanted him to have the ability to fight vagas. Alternatively, I figure you could also roll something like this:

[Daredevil, neutrons]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I

Personally I'd want the faction web regardless of whether I was rolling skirmish links but decided to put this one down without it to show it's still doable from a cpu perspective.

edit: slot 6 has a +5% implant. Sadly they've gone up in price to 30mil from the 5mil I bought them but w/e vov, shit still owns. Don't need the faction rep, but it was a gift so I figured why not.

prometheus
December 25 2011, 05:32:12 AM
tsk tsk, they still fail in comparison to the standard soloing fit.


[Daredevil, Standard]
Internal Force Field Array I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Ambit Extension II
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension II
Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

Improve the mods as you see fit, but this is still the standard by which all Neutron fits are judged.
The concept of the nos *is* nice, but you may as well run a dual prop DD or Taranis instead ;)

Kn1v3s
December 28 2011, 07:07:57 PM
Dual prop DD fuckin the web bonus?
Dual prop Comet seems p much the way to go, much better then the Ranis

Btw, i tried this for lowsec brawling, got nearly fucked by a 150/plate/rep/nos Wolf

[Daredevil, reloaded]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I

5.7k ehp with 1384 in armor
38/49 dps tank
308/355 deepees with AM
1334/1773m/s

All lvl V without implants.


Always for lowsec i was thinking of this

[Daredevil, Capitalist]
Internal Force Field Array I
'Capitalist' Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
'Capitalist' Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I

4255k ehp
34/44 dsp tank
348/400 deepees with AM
1500/2000m/s speed

less tank, more dps and speed and the nos
the lolmag are pretty cheap (around 9 m or less) and are there for cpu issues. It' s the only way i could find to have a nos in this without go for an upir that cost just too much

Istvaan
January 1 2012, 03:12:06 PM
[Daredevil, Hurty]
Internal Force Field Array I
Micro 'Vigor' Core Augmentation
Federation Navy Magnetic Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Stabilizer

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Sisters Core Probe Launcher

Small Core Defence Field Extender II
Small Core Defence Field Extender II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

392.1 DPS / 450 DPS O/H
6,548 EHP
3.8km/s speed.

It's expensive but I'm an expensive sort of guy. Thoughts? Can a frig with only a web be helpful?

Daneel Trevize
January 1 2012, 03:22:12 PM
You must remember that a 90% web will insta-warp damn-near anything of any size, you must be sure someone's got enough points on target or they will just hit the button and be gone.

Lex Fasces
January 1 2012, 04:11:03 PM
You must remember that a 90% web will insta-warp damn-near anything of any size, you must be sure someone's got enough points on target or they will just hit the button and be gone.

i get alot of kills with a coercer though. like i have taken on 4 frigs in it and killed them all.

with 450 dps and frigate level tracking with a 90% web on em, not much will last long enough to realise OHSHIT

Daneel Trevize
January 1 2012, 04:44:49 PM
A coercer can only have a prop mod, or do you mean you had only a <60% web? Regardless, it's less intimidating than a DD, many should know to spam warp because tackled will usually mean death.

Daneel Trevize
January 1 2012, 07:25:56 PM
Yes and I'm saying anything that has little enought tank to be almost volleyed by small blasters is not going to be too motivated by a coercer on d/on grid, but a DD is almost only ever going to mean bad news, so which one will make them hit warp when they notice, and which one will also insta-save them should they have any sort of alignment?

With someone else pointing/bubbling, they are beastly tacklers. And have half a chance with shield reps being at start of cycle.

Lex Fasces
January 2 2012, 03:30:55 PM
You will miss kills ofc but that is the price of being amazing. My coercer can take any ship sub cruiser with confidence apart from a sentinel lol sure you miss half your precious killmails but you have had a fight and emerged the victor. People will try to run away if they are losing either fight people that are after fights (stop catching and ganking). Shield fits have nice ehp range speed and tracking. Lack of point when you are doing almost 100% of your fantastic dps against stuff that will die in 10 - 20 seconds. You lose killmails but gain a load of effectiveness.

I pvp for fights though and it isn't the kill or lossmail that gets the adrenaline pumping

Daneel Trevize
January 2 2012, 05:18:28 PM
I think Istvaan needs to talk to Hera (http://genos.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11974778)

Istvaan
January 2 2012, 05:31:15 PM
Wow, that fit is... interesting... to say the least.

3 power grid rigs instead of a MAPC? :p

Sponk
January 3 2012, 09:27:23 PM
The Drone link really did it for me.

Daneel Trevize
January 4 2012, 12:45:04 AM
Would you prefer nos (http://genos.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12036402) or salvager (http://genos.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12043978)?

Jack Forge
January 4 2012, 05:53:08 AM
With blasters . . . maybe they have shit drone skills? Wait, they can't be THAT shit . . . can they? :psyduck:

prometheus
January 4 2012, 06:25:44 AM
With blasters . . . maybe they have shit drone skills? Wait, they can't be THAT shit . . . can they? :psyduck:
you're aware the daredevil has no drones, yes?

Istvaan
January 4 2012, 02:36:19 PM
With blasters . . . maybe they have shit drone skills? Wait, they can't be THAT shit . . . can they? :psyduck:
you're aware the daredevil has no drones, yes?

I thought maybe the drone link augmentor was there to function as an overheat-sink of sorts... for the blasters... yeah.

Raz
January 4 2012, 05:35:21 PM
With blasters . . . maybe they have shit drone skills? Wait, they can't be THAT shit . . . can they? :psyduck:
you're aware the daredevil has no drones, yes?

I thought maybe the drone link augmentor was there to function as an overheat-sink of sorts... for the blasters... yeah.

It's obviously for when he has fighters assigned to it and needs to order them to attack a target three times past his locking range.

Pacefalm
January 4 2012, 07:45:35 PM
Always for lowsec i was thinking of this

[Daredevil, Capitalist]
Internal Force Field Array I
'Capitalist' Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
'Capitalist' Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I

4255k ehp
34/44 dsp tank
348/400 deepees with AM
1500/2000m/s speed

less tank, more dps and speed and the nos
the lolmag are pretty cheap (around 9 m or less) and are there for cpu issues. It' s the only way i could find to have a nos in this without go for an upir that cost just too much
I'm thinking drop one of the MFS for a TE and upgrade T2 on the other one, then you free a rig slot for something like low friction nozzle joints without much of a dps loss (or even a dps gain depending on distance) and some more gtfo-ability. E: or an armor explo rig for more even resists across the board at the loss of some speed

Rudolf Miller
January 5 2012, 12:58:58 PM
I think Istvaan needs to talk to Hera (http://genos.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11974778)

oh gawd...

Wallymarts
January 30 2012, 12:05:18 AM
Wondering how much more awesome the daredevil is after the patch :) Null FTW

Daneel Trevize
January 30 2012, 12:15:36 AM
In hiding from all the AFs?

RoemySchneider
January 30 2012, 02:13:07 AM
In hiding from all the AFs?

as long as those are drooling over their little blasters, scramblers and webs, a 4km/s raildevil should have little trouble kiting those 2-2.5km/s bricks to death
... or to bugger off when the opponent is not an eft blaster fanboi vOv

[Daredevil, New Setup 2]
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Overdrive Injector System II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Warp Disruptor II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I

Daneel Trevize
January 30 2012, 09:23:46 AM
Did you forget the web?

Raz
January 30 2012, 04:28:11 PM
In hiding from all the AFs?

I still prefer the Daredevil in a lot of ways. It's much faster and more agile. And it can go head to head with some of the AFs. Though I've only engaged two so far in one and died both times. Once to a blaster Enyo that I got much, much too close too when closing. And once to an arty Jag that I had in hull. The latter fight was at a real disadvantage since I did an on-grid warp to him so he was able to burn away as I landed.

Kn1v3s
January 30 2012, 04:43:13 PM
so basically you still prefer it but got raped in it

Raz
January 30 2012, 05:13:18 PM
so basically you still prefer it but got raped in it

I think it's more versatile. DD had a hard time going head to head with most AFs pre-buff anyway. Now you just have to be even more circumspect. They have different roles is all I was initially saying. I don't think AFs are replacing every frig, and DDs are included in that.

prometheus
January 30 2012, 09:20:24 PM
Once to a blaster Enyo that I got much, much too close too when closing.
You will never kill a Harpy or Enyo unless they are pants on head retarded.
They both have far too much damage at range, so you're going to need either a faction web/scram if you want to even dream of it.

Raz
January 31 2012, 01:49:21 AM
Once to a blaster Enyo that I got much, much too close too when closing.
You will never kill a Harpy or Enyo unless they are pants on head retarded.
They both have far too much damage at range, so you're going to need either a faction web/scram if you want to even dream of it.

Enyo DPS at 9-10kms is pretty low. And he was pretty new so I doubted he had AF V plus maxed gunnery. But v0v. Ordinarily I wouldn't go after either because of their kin/therm resists.

prometheus
January 31 2012, 03:06:45 AM
Daredevil ehp is really low :p

Kn1v3s
February 1 2012, 08:33:49 PM
a good pvper can do all, but problem is: after the patch even if it was an hard matchup a faction frig vs AF was p much doable, had very gf in my enyo vs hoob, drams, dd, comet and slicers, but seeems that now AF are reallly one step ahead. Maybe that works as intended (now) but having a less range of ships that you can engage seems to me far from an improvment, that for both sides, faction frigs and AF

Lady Spank
February 4 2012, 06:25:22 PM
You could essentially argue that most frigs are 'worse than af's' now in terms of 1v1 dogfights but it doesnt diminish from the viability of the ships. Just cockblock those fat slow bitches if you aren't feeling confident and shoot something else.

ry ry
February 20 2012, 09:30:26 AM
for dogfighting they probably are outclassed, certainly in the bang-for-you-buck stakes - a non pimped but well piloted AF is still a fearsome prospect for an expensive untanked frigate, but for general zooming i've been having trouble finding fights in the new AFs (i am bad and in lowsex) so i guess their niche is 'things people will engage'. plus a dd will still ream ratting ships or non-AF tacklers.


cockblock fat bitches
rgr.

Karashur
December 2 2012, 01:39:15 PM
I understand with a Vigilant you are better off with long point + web rather than scram in the hope that the target will keep their MWD flaring while under 90% webs.

So, why do the vast majority of fits in this thread go for scram + web? Is there something Im missing?

Lex Fasces
December 2 2012, 02:10:13 PM
cpu probably

Karashur
December 2 2012, 03:10:48 PM
Thats what I thought initially, but then after browsing through the thread I thought if it was just fitting restriction then at lease some would have it.

With the new FW Plex changes coming in on Tuesday, I've been debating between -

[Daredevil, FW Blasters]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Faint Warp Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
1MN Afterburner II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I

357 DPS with CNAM, 4394 EHP, 37 'Tank'.

And -

[Daredevil, FW Rails]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Faint Warp Disruptor I
Stasis Webifier II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension II
[empty rig slot]

209 DPS CNAM, 4553 EHP, 42 'Tank'.

For fighting in the new minor T1/Faction frigate only plexs. Given the fact that the warp in is now going to be <10km from the orbit button, I guess the blaster fit would be better.

Daneel Trevize
December 2 2012, 03:10:53 PM
I understand with a Vigilant you are better off with long point + web rather than scram in the hope that the target will keep their MWD flaring while under 90% webs.

So, why do the vast majority of fits in this thread go for scram + web? Is there something Im missing?Gun range too on the Vigilant, might as well get point blank & 0tranvs asap. And scram + 90% web lets you try get away from 2 things at once.

Karashur
December 2 2012, 03:21:53 PM
Both 2 good points I hadnt thought of actually, thanks.

Suleiman Shouaa
December 2 2012, 03:45:16 PM
Also scrambler uses less capacitor. Not really an issue on a Rail Daredevil, but on a Blaster one with an armor rep which goes into small neut range to apply DPS, that could be a problem..

StevieTopSiders
December 2 2012, 03:57:44 PM
For the new novice sites, wouldn't you want to sit a bit off the warp-in with a rail fit, and just wait for people to come into you?

You only have to kill that one NPC, so you just need to be able to burn down other frigates before they traverse the 16km of your OH'ed FedNavy Web range.

W0lf Crendraven
December 2 2012, 03:58:41 PM
For lowsec fw i think something like this would be better:

[Daredevil, raildevil ]
Internal Force Field Array I
Fourier Transform Tracking Program
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Fourier Transform Tracking Program

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

(can switch rigs around, more locking range is good)

In lowsec you dont really need the repper unless your into fighting frig blobs. It can kill pretty much every frigate/dessie there is, and it has an awesome gtfo ability! The ab allows you to land on stuff @ zero and still win and to kill cynas/vagas/sfis and the like (orbit at 13, kill drones). Unless you take stupid risks its pretty hard to loose (alignt time of 2 secs means you will most likely evene scape instalock camps).

Karashur
December 2 2012, 04:48:14 PM
I like it.

Less pimped version with 1x T2 Tracking Enhancer -

[Daredevil, FW Rails Passive]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I
Tracking Enhancer II
Fourier Transform Tracking Program

Faint Warp Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Varcaus
December 2 2012, 04:53:36 PM
I would think you really need the fed navy web range

Karashur
December 2 2012, 05:16:15 PM
Itll be with links, do I dont think thatll be a huge issue.

Varcaus
December 2 2012, 05:18:26 PM
mine as well pimp it then you'll be scouted threw anyway.

Karashur
December 2 2012, 05:23:49 PM
Also a fair point, it just reduces the need a bit.. But, I think youre probably right and its worth pimping.

Suleiman Shouaa
December 2 2012, 08:13:22 PM
Fed Navy web is really, REALLY worth it on this ship. Also, I would strongly suggest a lock range rig (DD has crap lock range) and a small armour repairer - I've had a 30 minute long fight outside top station Heydieles vs Oracle, Arbitrator, Coercer, Tristan, Incursus & anti-frigate Tornado and eventually had to bail in 20% hull with my point burnt out - the rep would have kept me going for ages if I had one. Even had to arrange for a R1tah guy who was watching me to drop off ammo for me :S

Lex Fasces
December 2 2012, 08:55:12 PM
Fed Navy web is really, REALLY worth it on this ship. Also, I would strongly suggest a lock range rig (DD has crap lock range) and a small armour repairer - I've had a 30 minute long fight outside top station Heydieles vs Oracle, Arbitrator, Coercer, Tristan, Incursus & anti-frigate Tornado and eventually had to bail in 20% hull with my point burnt out - the rep would have kept me going for ages if I had one. Even had to arrange for a R1tah guy who was watching me to drop off ammo for me :S

solo pvp with links and implants detected =)

Suleiman Shouaa
December 2 2012, 09:05:30 PM
Fed Navy web is really, REALLY worth it on this ship. Also, I would strongly suggest a lock range rig (DD has crap lock range) and a small armour repairer - I've had a 30 minute long fight outside top station Heydieles vs Oracle, Arbitrator, Coercer, Tristan, Incursus & anti-frigate Tornado and eventually had to bail in 20% hull with my point burnt out - the rep would have kept me going for ages if I had one. Even had to arrange for a R1tah guy who was watching me to drop off ammo for me :S

solo pvp with links and implants detected =)

Only brought in the links after 20 minutes :S

prometheus
December 2 2012, 09:22:12 PM
I still say rail fits aren't worth it.
Here's why;
- without a web (ie: out of range or secondary target), your tracking is absolutely trash
- under 10km, blasters outperform by a huge margin
- only a couple of AFs can't slap you at that range (ie: blaster enyo or close range hawk/wolf/veng)
- can't hold a target, but shoot down drones
- you can't kill vagabonds, cynabals (with no ecm), or more importantly rapiers/huginns & t1 cruisers

unless you're in a frigate rich environment flown by people who don't learn, blasters rule.

Suleiman Shouaa
December 2 2012, 09:46:56 PM
Eh, Blaster Harpies can't touch you at your operating range (takes ages to kill them though), Ishkur ain't too bad since Javelin + web makes short work of them whilst you keep him pointed. Jaguar is pretty lol, Wolf is doable if he doesn't carry Barrage and/or have TEs (speculating, haven't fought one yet).

Can kill Cynabals & Vagabonds, assuming you don't get jammed by ECM drones - orbitting outside their neut range but inside web range (12.3 - 13.9km iirc) will mean that they can't hit you but you can still track them fine. Almost had a Cynabal until his last ECM drone jammed me and he could suddenly track again. Still managed to get out though!

n0th
December 2 2012, 09:52:52 PM
I still say rail fits aren't worth it.

Rail fits are perfect for full faggot mode with fed navy web and skirmish links.
Chill out at 25k where nothing can hit you, press F1, receive killmail, brag about ~elitepvp~


- you can't kill vagabonds, cynabals (with no ecm), or more importantly rapiers/huginns & t1 cruisers

Please link a killmail from 2012 where you solo a Rapier or a Cynabal in a DD

Tyrus Tenebros
December 2 2012, 09:54:51 PM
I still say rail fits aren't worth it.

Rail fits are perfect for full faggot mode with fed navy web and skirmish links.
Chill out at 25k where nothing can hit you, press F1, receive killmail, brag about ~elitepvp~


- you can't kill vagabonds, cynabals (with no ecm), or more importantly rapiers/huginns & t1 cruisers

Link the last time where you solo'd a rapier or a vaga in a frig. Let me guess, that was probably in 2009...
I've done it more recently than that, and almost did it within the last few months but he brought in a buddy at the last minute and saved his vaga in armor (crap vengeance dps is a go).

it's not amazingly common, to be sure, but it's certainly still POSSIBLE.

n0th
December 2 2012, 10:00:34 PM
Yes i too have the odd retard Vaga kill somewhere.
He makes it sound though as if he routinely finds shitfit recons/HACs to brawl down without any backup. Which just doesnt happen in eve 2012.

W0lf Crendraven
December 2 2012, 10:10:30 PM
Small acs do very little dps to 20km (even with barrage + te + falloff bonus) so thrashers/wolfs/jags are easy prey. Artys other kiting frigs are a bit more tricky tho on paper you will win the dps race you have more ehp/dps/range than a arty wolf and thanks to your awesome web you can track just fine!

And actually the raildevil outperforms the blaster ddevil from 7km onward, it also can beat almost any af and the dps arent that bad (260 for a blaster devil with null compared to 212 with javelin) .

And the best reason to fly this ship is its survivability, due to its web and ab speed and agility if you notice somthing bad happening you can just heat the ab and get out, this gets even absurder when you throw in links/implants (27km web and 3500m/s heated ab speed with an agility of 1.7/2.8 seconds)

And you can actually kill most crusiers pretty nicely, heat ab, use web to pop drones orcounter web, due to your tiny sice and your high speed you can actually speedtank (a hml caracal projects out an impressive 3 dps without drones (or 18dps with aml)), you can outrange a thoraxs blasters and outfly the tracking of medium acs and lazors.


You will loose it only to becoming overconfident! And yes if you want to fight blobs rep is nice (would loose a 1v1 vs a rep less one tho)!

Suleiman Shouaa
December 2 2012, 10:48:27 PM
I don't bother using links on a consistent basis with frigates so I'm not sure where you're going with that. The Rail DD performs fine without links, just means you have to overheat your web occasionally.

As for getting those kinds of fights, FW space is rife with idiots. Especially before the FW plex nerf, you would see a fair few Cynabals, Vagabonds etc. lurking around Heydieles trying to catch people running plexes. I've posted a video of me killing a particularly dumb pilot in a Cynabal within jump range of a stargate in my Vengeance, as well as his Dramiel buddy when he pops in so yes, there are still bad people playing Eve.

And no, I'm not saying it's a super routine thing. However, it is nice to fly a frigate that can engage stuff that you generally can't in most frigates (fought a buffer SFI, lost due to not having lock range rig etc.) unless if you have links backing you up. Same reason I fly a Vengeance alot - you can deal with anti-frigate Cruisers quite well. Hawk can even smash the standard anti-frigate Arbitrator badly.

W0lf Crendraven
December 2 2012, 11:03:52 PM
i think what he means is that proms argument of a blaster dd beeing able to kill vagas/cynas/rapiers and such easier was pointless as this is very rare to accur and as such shoudnt play a role in how you fit your frigate!

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 03:30:42 AM
Having flown them both, I agree with Prom. In real EVE you don't get 1v1s often enough for rails to really be viable. Not to mention the fact that you can buy two Daredevils practically for the price of DD+Fed Web.

Here is what I used when I flew rails:

[Daredevil, Daredevil - 150mm R]

Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Internal Force Field Array I
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Coreli C-Type 1MN Microwarpdrive
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Faint Warp Disruptor I

150mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Plutonium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Plutonium Charge S
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I


Ran into an Ishkur with gang bonuses which meant as I landed on zero of him, he scrammed me by the time I was 10km off him. He was faster with MWD even 90% webbed than I was with web/scram on me. He had a friend in an SFI that came and made sure I died.

I'd fly blasters, tbh.

Varcaus
December 3 2012, 03:38:46 AM
Drop ccc for the larger base cap pool. (semi conductor?)

n0th
December 3 2012, 04:39:11 AM
Having flown them both, I agree with Prom. In real EVE you don't get 1v1s often enough for rails to really be viable. Not to mention the fact that you can buy two Daredevils practically for the price of DD+Fed Web.

But raildevil actually outshines the blaster DD in 1vsX engagements because you can do dps and not be in any danger (= scrammed).
Problem with blaster DD is - you have to commit and the hull is very scary because no matter how people shitfit it - its still 90% web and insane on-paper DPS. The second you are scrammed and your prey isnt instapopping you're probably about to get raped by rapier+falcon or 2+ TDs and a shitton more frigs warping in.
Tbh this is the reason why i dont bother flying anything other than a Slicer lately for frig 1-account soloing.
Its way less scary, much cheaper and kills everything except minmatar AF (resist profile) + is actually challenging to fly because of zero hard tackle and mediocre speed/agility.

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 04:43:09 AM
You're going to get scrammed in 1vX engagements. Having the best tracking and damage inside that range is what matters.

StevieTopSiders
December 3 2012, 05:23:09 AM
or fit an AB

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 05:26:51 AM
or fit an AB

And die to the first camp you run into. How do you expect to kite more than one ship with rails+ab anyway?

StevieTopSiders
December 3 2012, 05:28:07 AM
Align out in like 2 seconds.

But actually, I thought we were still talking about camping the entrances to new novice sites.

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 05:43:06 AM
Align out in like 2 seconds.

But actually, I thought we were still talking about camping the entrances to new novice sites.

Bubbles.

And no, I'm talking about use in general.

prometheus
December 3 2012, 07:32:47 AM
When I flew DDs/Taranis, Rapiers were pretty common.
With the increase of frigates being flown, I find it hard to believe that the number of Rapiers being flown has decreased...

Point is, the DD is a blaster ship through and through.
You don't need to kite people when you can absolutely SHRED folks in no time whatsoever.
For the odd frigate you can't engage, there are many others that you can.

Doubling the cost of a ship that will explode at the sight of any LR counters does not sound like good business.

I should know, after all, when these were first boosted I dumped fuckloads of isk into them.
I then realized that the difference in cost/performance between t2 and faction was not worth the investment, and that 9/10 times, a t2 fit would suffice.

But hey, if you want to fly your space pinata around, you go right ahead.
My destroyers have plenty of cargo space.

And as for the use of links; I could swear there was a post about fits that rely on them.
If you've got some fag in a linkbox spewing interdiction links, nobody gives a shit if you can kill an AF from 20km.
Good for you for spending excessive amounts of isk to achieve something that could have been done for a fraction of the cost.

sharptoast
December 3 2012, 08:09:07 AM
ohgodangryprom


Well, that gives a whole new meaning to promsrage :3

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 08:21:08 AM
Point is, the DD is a blaster ship through and through.
You don't need to kite people when you can absolutely SHRED folks in no time whatsoever.
For the odd frigate you can't engage, there are many others that you can.




No it isnt, the blaster dd will loose to every competent af and dessie , it can even loose to some tech1 frigates. It also has very bad gtfo options and is a sitting loot pinata, and yes its not worth pimping blaster devils because they arent very good anyways (but factionw ebs on raildevils make sense). And @ afroman we are talking about lowsec fw space here atm so whether it can perfrom in nullsec or not is abolutly pointless.

The only thing the blaster dd is better at is beeing a bigger ranis and drawing off and than ganking down ceptos of bigger fleets!

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 09:05:50 AM
It is honestly hard to take your arguments seriously when you can't spell 'lose' correctly.

In real EVE the concept of kiting with a Fed web (especially without links) is a pipe dream. Even with links you'll still get scram/webbed down by the first non-solo ship you encounter, and then you lack the DPS and tracking of a blaster DD. With a blaster DD, you can actually facemelt the first ship before the second is even on grid, most of the time.

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 09:14:42 AM
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, id suggest going out and trying it yourself (with an ab fit in fw lowsec) before you come back!

Gibbo3771
December 3 2012, 09:48:49 AM
The DD was good back in its glory days, the only thing it really has going atm is railgun kiting faggotry.

As it stands, a blaster DD gets outmatched by a hella lota shit, even more so in nullsec due to the common MWD + max dmg + falloff fit, the only reason it wins fights is due to the utter incompetence of other players.

I would feel extremely comfortable engaging a DD in most AF's, Jag being the iffy one but with the new t1 frigate buff, lots of ewar/dual prop/ASB fits are kicking about.

It really does not help the matter that the Enyo/Ishkur/Harpy/Hawk/Wolf are all extremely common in nullsec, all which I am afraid can shred a DD with ease, for half the price.

Another problem with it is the massive sig, with the amount of tier3's kicking about nullsec, having a massive sig while burning away from a gang or pulling off a tackler is certain death. Many DD/Dramiels have been 2-3 shot with a 45 approach on my Talos more times than I can count.

n0th
December 3 2012, 10:26:24 AM
When I flew DDs/Taranis, Rapiers were pretty common.
But hey, if you want to fly your space pinata around, you go right ahead.
My destroyers have plenty of cargo space.


When was the last time you logged in and actually killed shit in a frigate in 0.0?
Probably shortly after Crucible, game has kinda changed since then.


You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, id suggest going out and trying it yourself (with an ab fit in fw lowsec) before you come back!

Noone cares about lowsec AB faggotry



In real EVE the concept of kiting with a Fed web (especially without links) is a pipe dream.
Its not. In fact let me tell you about kiting with a Slicer with zero range control and probably the shittiest agility of all the faction frigs.
If you cant figure out how you can kite amazingly with a 90% web out to at least 18k on top of what is the best base agility in the game then well...

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 10:34:32 AM
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, id suggest going out and trying it yourself (with an ab fit in fw lowsec) before you come back!

Noone cares about lowsec

I know from experience that he will not bend one iota on his opinions regardless of evidence to the contrary, so arguing with him is a waste of time. Hopefully people won't fall for his misinformation and will fit blasters to their DD's as they should.

Here's the fit I'll likely use once I get another, slight upgrade from the blaster fits I've used before:

[Daredevil, Daredevil - Small Rep copy]

Internal Force Field Array I
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension II

337 | 387 DPS @ 1.13+5.63km w/ CN AM
268 | 309 DPS @ 3.15+7.88km w/ Null
4.39k EHP (1.05k shield / 1.39k armor / 1.96k hull)
3687 | 5303 m/s
2.48s align

You can fit a J5b scram and a T1 ambit rig instead of the processor overclocker, but I do like the long point (catching shit and lets them keep their sig bloomed).

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 11:33:16 AM
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, id suggest going out and trying it yourself (with an ab fit in fw lowsec) before you come back!

Noone cares about lowsec

I know from experience that he will not bend one iota on his opinions regardless of evidence to the contrary, so arguing with him is a waste of time. Hopefully people won't fall for his misinformation and will fit blasters to their DD's as they should.

Here's the fit I'll likely use once I get another, slight upgrade from the blaster fits I've used before:

[Daredevil, Daredevil - Small Rep copy]

Internal Force Field Array I
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension II

337 | 387 DPS @ 1.13+5.63km w/ CN AM
268 | 309 DPS @ 3.15+7.88km w/ Null
4.39k EHP (1.05k shield / 1.39k armor / 1.96k hull)
3687 | 5303 m/s
2.48s align

You can fit a J5b scram and a T1 ambit rig instead of the processor overclocker, but I do like the long point (catching shit and lets them keep their sig bloomed).

Its terrible, you loose the straight dps/ehp race (i know that youv got the extra range but still) vs an incursus and even vs a punisher/merlins its very very close, any af will eat you alive, as will two t1 frigs, it has no nos so its even terrible vs cruisers (cynas/vagas)!


I get what you want to do but trying to get noobs into terrible fitted ships so that you can farm kills isnt nice!

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 11:35:37 AM
You still don't know how to spell 'lose' even after I told you how to three posts ago. Wtf.

I guess that proves my point in my last post.

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 12:30:11 PM
In what way is spelling relevant to you beeing terrible at daredevils?

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 12:33:45 PM
It means I think you're dumb and thus don't give your opinions much credit.

Also it is 'being'

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 12:52:19 PM
It means I think you're dumb and thus don't give your opinions much credit.

Also it is 'being'

So when you loose (i know its lose but it seems to annoy you) an argument you turn to a personal level ?

Also to contribute more content:

[Daredevil, repraildevil]
Internal Force Field Array I
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Small Ionic Field Projector I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

If you want a rep id suggest something like this.

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 01:07:27 PM
This is the internet, your text is how you're judged.

Also I did not lose the argument because I chose to end it early. I said my piece and that's all I can do.

StevieTopSiders
December 3 2012, 01:13:10 PM
Nice 38 DPS tank. lol

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 01:14:32 PM
Nice 38 DPS tank. lol

My fit isn't much better on dps tanked, but its for after the fight

Warmenhoven
December 3 2012, 02:21:39 PM
337 | 387 DPS @ 1.13+5.63km w/ CN AM
268 | 309 DPS @ 3.15+7.88km w/ Null
4.39k EHP (1.05k shield / 1.39k armor / 1.96k hull)


Dies to an enyo....which is cheaper.

Also spelling has zero impact on flying ability, even brining that up as something to support your argument makes you look pathetic. Talk about the fits in real terms.

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 02:47:12 PM
337 | 387 DPS @ 1.13+5.63km w/ CN AM
268 | 309 DPS @ 3.15+7.88km w/ Null
4.39k EHP (1.05k shield / 1.39k armor / 1.96k hull)


Dies to an enyo....which is cheaper.

Also spelling has zero impact on flying ability, even brining that up as something to support your argument makes you look pathetic. Talk about the fits in real terms.

Just about any non-kiting frigate dies to an Enyo. The Enyo, however, gets raped by kiting frigates, where-as the Dardevil can overheat MWD to over 5km/s and facerape kiting ships. What's your point?

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 03:08:18 PM
Well, the raildevil beats enyos aswell as other kiting frigates... .

prometheus
December 3 2012, 04:59:39 PM
So you're telling me that you're going to find lone enyos eh?
Yes, the dd will lose to AFs. That's what AFs are for.

Spending a shitload on it doesn't change the fact that without links, any competent destroyer, rail enyo/harpy, retribution, hawk, artillery wolf/jag, or ishkur will give you a run for your money.

Your only option is escape.

Also, being in low sec with an ab really doesn't help you're argument. Mainly because those hybrid AFs you speak of would need to be alone for jumps because of how long it'll take to kill a properly fit one.

Join RVB red pls, so I can stomp you without you even knowing it's me. Tia

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 06:16:55 PM
Of course one can find lone enyos and other afs (and other (faction) frigates) they are so common that taking more than 10 jumps without running into one is unusuall, i could even never leave my home system and i would still find plenty lone frigates i could fight, 1v1s are more common than actual gangs (depends on the region of course, but its insane how many frig fights you can get in the core amarr/minmatar warzone systems aswell as in the cladari/gallente ones) .

And yes railenyos/harpys/good arty thrashers/good arty wolfs and good rail corms/catas will porbably force you off (but you will beat every close fitted dessie aswell as hawks/ishkurs), but unlike the blaster dd you can actually gtfo if you dont like what you are engaging or how they are fitted (or get links and win).

But it still stand that the blaster daredevil cant brawl down other frigates fast enough before their reeinforcements (if they have any) lands, because simply there are very little frigates the blaster dd will actually be able to brawl down, so you can just fly a railfit ( most fight will still be over very quickly)... if they are alone you will win, if they arent you can check (just dont fight on zero fight at a distance so that they have to burn) if they are ab fit and kite them around, if not well heat your web and ab in a direction and spam warp.

Anzoxe
December 3 2012, 08:25:06 PM
Of course one can find lone enyos and other afs (and other (faction) frigates) they are so common that taking more than 10 jumps without running into one is unusuall, i could even never leave my home system and i would still find plenty lone frigates i could fight, 1v1s are more common than actual gangs (depends on the region of course, but its insane how many frig fights you can get in the core amarr/minmatar warzone systems aswell as in the cladari/gallente ones) .


where the hell do u live m8

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 08:29:17 PM
Hevrice

Xedam Praxis
December 3 2012, 09:11:14 PM
Hevrice

Yea, I roam down there quite frequently and it's pretty accurate to say that in that region finding solo AFs and/or faction frigates to fight isn't terribly hard.

OrangeAfroMan
December 3 2012, 10:00:59 PM
Rail Harpy beats every frig anyway at a fraction of the cost

W0lf Crendraven
December 3 2012, 10:41:15 PM
Yes on a pure ehp/dps race the harpy wins (barely) (but eft says if both ships fight in webbing range and the dd can web the harpy it will win), but it also needs a mwd to work which means you can forget going through plex accelaration gates, when your caught on 0 your dead. Its agility is pretty bad (the 2 sec agility means instalegions cant catch you, 1 sec cloaking delay + 1 sec locktime + 1 sec till the point works means it is alredy in warp)) and its bigger.

And the harpy is scary, very scary while a daredevil (as most people still fit blasters) appears to be a free shiny killmail to any af and to some t1 frigs so you will get a lot of fights. And for now it can enter minors whereas the harpy cant.


(But the rail harpy is a pretty similar ship, if you have flown that imagine it with three webs, more dps, more web range and perfect agility aswell as scram immunity)

OrangeAfroMan
December 4 2012, 01:12:46 AM
The Harpy fit I use has similar webbing power (2 webs), more EHP, double the optimal, more DPS, better sig (mwd sig reduction) and costs less than half a DD hull.

I'd say DDs are more intimidating to most players than Harpies because they're expensive and rare by comparison so they must be good.

n0th
December 4 2012, 04:28:45 AM
Rail Harpy beats every frig anyway at a fraction of the cost

No
http://kb.ds-alliance.com/kill/1011342/

OrangeAfroMan
December 4 2012, 05:34:05 AM
Rail Harpy beats every frig anyway at a fraction of the cost

No
http://kb.ds-alliance.com/kill/1011342/

Bad fit Harpy is bad. I eat Slicers for breakfast. I've killed literally every Slicer I've encountered except a handful that managed to escape in structure.

Here are a couple

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13912731

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13890954

Garviel
December 4 2012, 07:38:11 AM
How to beat a slicer in a rail harpy, press f1, OH MWD, press approach, Scoop loot.

W0lf Crendraven
December 4 2012, 10:47:24 AM
The Harpy fit I use has similar webbing power (2 webs), more EHP, double the optimal, more DPS, better sig (mwd sig reduction) and costs less than half a DD hull.

I'd say DDs are more intimidating to most players than Harpies because they're expensive and rare by comparison so they must be good.

Its doesnt do more dps ( dual magstab harpy compared to a single magstab + dps rig daredevil), 2 webs and a heavy web is quite a big difference due to stacking penaltys, twice the optimal is pretty useless as you than leave 25km to do more dps where you can really web people so it doesnt help (daredevil does more dps than the harpy even if it uses plutonium) , and its sig is 3 times the daredevil (mwd reduction is still just a reduction, the ab keeps it ceptor small).

And in lowsec (no idea about null but i think most null frig pilots would rather engage a daredevil than a harpy) harpys are a lot scarier than daredevils, a phantasm is expensive aswell but noone fears that, and even if a daredevil would be in a gang youd still engage it as you most certainly would be able to gank it down fast enough.

Karashur
December 4 2012, 04:03:56 PM
I think its almost a given that a T2 AF will out perform the DD in most open space, especially nullsec, fights.

But, I also think its a given that the rail DD will be king of the new novice FW plexs, which is what my original semi-necro post was regarding.

Lady Spank
December 5 2012, 10:55:24 PM
Rails work perfectly in optimal conditions but blasters simply have a much greater range of viable engagements.

I know this is a general fitting discussion forum and fleet fittings are worth discussing but the insistence of including links while discussing solo or boxed fits should be an exception rather than a norm.

sent from my electric telephone