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Marlona Sky
September 29 2011, 05:08:23 AM
So lets hear it, what makes a good tank and shit?

Grarr Dexx
September 29 2011, 06:30:15 AM
Hard CC, lots of it, and other tank or fuckshitup abilities.

TroN
September 29 2011, 06:33:13 AM
Also some form of initiation such as Amumu's bandage toss, or Jarvan IV's E+Q

mira o'karr
September 29 2011, 06:45:43 AM
can some one come up with a viable list of pure tanks?

most i see is tanky dps but that doesnt fit in here, does it?

TroN
September 29 2011, 06:59:33 AM
Only pure tank that is still viable (imo) is Amumu.

Other champions that can be built as a pure tank are (again, imo)

Alistar, Jarvan, Singed (bit of a weird one but defo a tank), Rammus, Shen (lol)

Forever Calzone
September 29 2011, 07:26:59 AM
Outright tanks

Amumu
Leona
Shen
Singed
Rammus

Malphite/Irelia/Alistar/Udyr/Galio/Cho'gath are debatable malphite/irelia can be deceptively squishy without farm and in general they tend to be more the bruiser/fighter/tanky dps whatever the hell people call it. May want to take note champion types and roles are 2 different things so even though something may be classed as a tank/tanky dps w/e they can still fill a specific role like jungler/support.

If you want to talk about viability jungle rammus/amumu are king, singed is an amazing top laner, leona makes a reasonable support(and can be decently tanky with little farm) and shen doesn't really fit into any lane/role decently he's a crappy jungler, mediocre support and is just simply bad at farming in top lane you would expect him to be able to handle most melee top lane champs well but he really doesn't.

Anything can really be built as a tank it's just daft to do it on so many champs when they can be built far better the ones I mentioned above are the only real examples of champs that are just bad at being built in any damage form, Singed could work at a stretch but like I said it's just such a waste.

cmi
September 29 2011, 07:27:12 AM
i would say there are only very few "real" tanks in this game. some champions scale their damage with protection items (like rammus or malphite), get additional protection by items (like singed or blitz) or get protection by using skills (like cho getting health when killing with his ult, leona and rammus with w)

imho:

rammus - prototype tank: initiate, taunt, damage reduction (resists), reflect
amumu - toss, damage reduction, ult
singed - ult to run in, slow, fling
shen - dash+taunt, shield (others)+teleport
malphite - slow and bump (ult)
cho'gath - "ranged" aoe bump+slow and aoe silence
alistar - heal, kick, bump
galio - just for his ult :)
maokai - root and protection (ult)
leona - some dashes, stuns and slows
jarvan - dash, bump + ult
blitzcrank - awesome initiate (grab), bump, short silence by his ult (to disrupt several ults)

only a few are pure tanks, some can build as support, bruiser, offtank or tank

Accipiter
September 29 2011, 08:05:15 AM
Jarvan is not only good with his E+Q combo but with the added shield and slow from W while standing close to some enemy champs. Passive adds some damage, his Q has some debuff utility. R is a mixed bag but can at least force a flash from chars with no build in blink. He and Cho are by far my favorite "tanky" chars since Amumu was banned in every single draft I've played since they added the feature to normal games. Both are also fun to play. With Rammus I often just stand in a TF, grabbing the most dangerous Bruiser, shield up, ult running and see what happens. Dragging cocky enemys into tower range or Q chase, then taunting them towards your team is a little bonus you get.

filingo
September 29 2011, 08:08:41 AM
i would say gailo is less of a tank and more of a tanky ap caster. hes not as tanky as cho or maokai but he does more deeps if you go ap. his ulti is a bit odd in that you dont really want to take damage on gailo (the way i build him). i prefer paying cho or TREE

cmi
September 29 2011, 08:50:13 AM
i would say gailo is less of a tank and more of a tanky ap caster. hes not as tanky as cho or maokai but he does more deeps if you go ap. his ulti is a bit odd in that you dont really want to take damage on gailo (the way i build him). i prefer paying cho or TREE

ya true. that's why i added the "just for the ult :)" ^^

Blutreiter
September 29 2011, 10:01:38 AM
I am surprised that I cannot find Taric on your list.

To be fair, since his Ulti got reworked, he lost a good bit of tankability, but he has a very reliable stun and 2 aura abilities, making him a target for the enemy team, regardless of his survivability.

Good tanks force the enemy team to focus them. Even on characters with no true CC, going Aurabitch is a good way to have intelligent teams focus you and make you a force multiplier.

Marlona Sky
September 29 2011, 10:10:44 AM
I am surprised that I cannot find Taric on your list.

To be fair, since his Ulti got reworked, he lost a good bit of tankability, but he has a very reliable stun and 2 aura abilities, making him a target for the enemy team, regardless of his survivability.

Good tanks force the enemy team to focus them. Even on characters with no true CC, going Aurabitch is a good way to have intelligent teams focus you and make you a force multiplier.

Had this problem a few times. Build up a really great support tank only to find yourself being focused always till your dead. I would not mind it if it resulted in the rest of my team acing the rest of them, but more cases than not half ran off during the team fight because they thought they would be primary. So the end result is the enemy team practically aces you and you get to watch black and white of the cowards run around and kill minions while the bad guys take out towers.

I guess it once again comes down to crap team mates. v0v

Mendolorian Girl
September 29 2011, 11:32:27 AM
Anything can really be built as a tank it's just daft to do it on so many champs when they can be built far better the ones I mentioned above are the only real examples of champs that are just bad at being built in any damage form, Singed could work at a stretch but like I said it's just such a waste.

Singed is the one champ that can be so powerful as a Tank. Build your core tank items (RoA, Banshee's, Frozen Heart), you get 80 AP, you're a tank. If you need more tank, build more tank, if you're unkillable (you should be by now tbh), throw a AAS on and my oh my 280 AP! Now you're a tank with stupid AOE /Toss Damage.

Adding that AAS basically gives you a 3rd Taunt, they have to kill you because otherwise you're just going to fuck their shit up.

FatFreddy
September 29 2011, 11:35:33 AM
Forget about malphite imo, played him for a long time, but especially since after this Q nerf he's just completely ignorable. Stuff like malphite + plus orianna ult is great and lulzy, but I really can't see him in everyday play.

- not enough tank
- not enough damage
- if you go full on tank, actually no damage
etc.

Especially after he's done his combo he's can just run around and watch his team die, and his w is kinda pointless. And mobile heroes just laugh at his Q. You might shit on squishies and get lol tower dives with his ult in matches against bads, but especially if you're up against a beefier team, he's useless.

Still might play him again for fun, but haven't in quite a while.

cullnean
September 29 2011, 11:53:36 AM
Ryze, the tank mage

Blutreiter
September 29 2011, 12:12:42 PM
One underappreciated item for tanks (no I am not kidding): Nashors Tooth.

Why?

Cooldown Reduction like crazy, manaregen for everything you will ever need. This plus Frozen Heart means max cooldowns already. I see so many tanks with tanky items, but almost no or maybe 10% cdr. The extra AP is icing on the cake and the extra ASPD means a bit more damage on towers. Not breathtaking but certainly noticeable.

Reimalken
September 30 2011, 06:36:50 AM
When I am playing rammus, I have CDR in my masteries and runes, such that grabbing Randuins is going to put me near 30% CD, which is enough for me. OBv i'd like 40%, but not at the cost of other, more viable items.

Bluemajere
September 30 2011, 07:18:03 AM
Singed is the one champ that can be so powerful as a Tank. Build your core tank items (RoA, Banshee's, Frozen Heart), you get 80 AP, you're a tank. If you need more tank, build more tank, if you're unkillable (you should be by now tbh), throw a AAS on and my oh my 280 AP! Now you're a tank with stupid AOE /Toss Damage.

Adding that AAS basically gives you a 3rd Taunt, they have to kill you because otherwise you're just going to fuck their shit up.

OK IM JUST GOING TO CORRECT U A BIT

ok

AAS is not good ok because to get that 200 more ap you need to get the 1k extra mana which isnt granted by clicking q a billion times, only e and w proc it, so NO OK M8 SORRY

MY BUILD WHICH I HAVE LITERALLY NEVER CHANGED FOR SINGED EVER BECAUSE IT OWNS FOREVER OK is

SOME MERC THREADS FOR DEM SNEAKERS (boots you idiots) SOME OF THAT ROD OF AGES BECAUSE WHY THE FUCK NOT IT PWNS OK? THEN SOME FKING RYLAIS CRYSTAL SCEPTDURRRRR

NOW IF THEIR MAGES ARE LIKE GETTING ALL UP IN YOUR SHIT GET THAT BANSHEE VEIL OK M8S? U GET THIS SO FAR?

ok so next you get sunfire cape and then you top that shit off with a frozen heart but OK YOU CAN GET THE GLACIAL SHROUD EARLY BECAUSE IT STR8 PWNS

well ok u can get the whole thing before sunfire if you need to help your team kill their AD carries while keeping your squishies alive...

TAKE GHOST AND TELEPORT, NEVER QUESTION YOURSELF, ALWAYS RUN IN FIRST, SAVE FLING FOR WHEN THEY GET YOUR CARRY IN A NASTY SPOT BECAUSE HE'S AN IDIOT WITH SHIT POSITIONING.

ok

thats how you go play singed

yes sirree

Mendolorian Girl
September 30 2011, 08:54:40 AM
OK IM JUST GOING TO CORRECT U A BIT

You cry like a baby when people don't take you seriously and yet you give every indication that you're a mouth breathing neckbearded basement dwelling retard v0v.

To answer your.... shit, I dunno if that's even a post, but whatever... no, you don't get 200 extra AP right off the bat, and you probably won't by the end either. But you get 135 straight away along with some nice other stats.

Sunfire cape is literally retarded. You've already got 3.5k HP, what the fuck do you want more for? Get your resists up.

filingo
September 30 2011, 09:14:55 AM
singed build = philo, merc treads, roa, fon, rylais, some other shit, farm like a boss hue hue hue hue

FUzziBabes
September 30 2011, 09:18:43 AM
Nashors tooth on anyone but kayle and maybe poppy is literally retarded especially a tank

Bluemajere
September 30 2011, 09:20:15 AM
You cry like a baby when people don't take you seriously and yet you give every indication that you're a mouth breathing neckbearded basement dwelling retard v0v.

To answer your.... shit, I dunno if that's even a post, but whatever... no, you don't get 200 extra AP right off the bat, and you probably won't by the end either. But you get 135 straight away along with some nice other stats.

Sunfire cape is literally retarded. You've already got 3.5k HP, what the fuck do you want more for? Get your resists up.

wow, just wow.

no. nobody who is any good (check any of the two featured solomid guides) builds AAS on singed. this is because it's a bad item. Love how you jump on the insult bandwagon like it's going out of style. you have no idea how to play singed. health is better than resists to a certain extent because after about 300 of a resist, the conversion starts to fall off rapidly. with your ult giving you about 70 armor, and being up for almost every teamfight, health is most certainly a useful stat. Also noted is filingo's suggestion about switching out veil for FON. the movespeed, health regen, and extra magic resist can be quite useful.

There's absolutely no need to bash my perfectly thoughtful and useful guide of singed just because I wrote it while I was in a mood for some terrible jokes and memes. I'm glad you automatically assumed some random hateful shit about me though. Props.

Marlona Sky
September 30 2011, 09:38:46 AM
I think attack speed singed is best to be truthful.

filingo
September 30 2011, 09:40:57 AM
NO MORE TROLLING

although red on singed is actually ok as you will be hitting them anyway and more slows and more dots = hue hue hue hue

Voulture
September 30 2011, 09:41:41 AM
Singed: Roa, Rylai, Fon, MS quints.
Rest is irrelevant, FH / Banshee works.

Mendolorian Girl
September 30 2011, 09:44:52 AM
nobody who is any good (check any of the two featured solomid guides) builds AAS on singed. this is because it's a bad item.

Oh shit bro, some people on a website said that it's bad, they must be right. It's situational, of course it's situational.. everything in LoL is situational. (protip, your stupidity does not appear to be situational)


health is better than resists to a certain extent because after about 300 of a resist, the conversion starts to fall off rapidly. with your ult giving you about 70 armor, and being up for almost every teamfight, health is most certainly a useful stat.

Let me give you a little lesson on Singed, it appears you need it. Mana gives you health. Mana means you can perma-run your abilities. If you stick to the mana category you'll find that you've got all the health you need, as well as picking up items that do several other jobs aswell.

Fair enough, you don't really need more armor after Frozen Heart (often I don't need that much tbh), but you shouldn't need more health either. If you really do want that extra health, and the extra armor then Randuin's is a significantly better item. Sunfire cape synergies with a few champs, Singed isn't one of them.


you have no idea how to play singed

no you


Also noted is filingo's suggestion about switching out veil for FON. the movespeed, health regen, and extra magic resist can be quite useful.

Agreed, FON is probably the only non mana increasing tank item that I regularly consider/get on Singed.


There's absolutely no need to bash my perfectly thoughtful and useful guide of singed just because I wrote it while I was in a mood for some terrible jokes and memes.

The clue here was "terrible jokes and memes"... those make you sound exactly as I described and they're intended to do nothing more than ridicule and patronise as you well know. Don't try and make out that you're some poor tormented soul when you're nothing more than a troll who cries to mummy.

filingo
September 30 2011, 09:46:34 AM
stop derailing this thread by arguing you faggots (bluefag and mendofag this means you)

Blutreiter
September 30 2011, 09:48:32 AM
Nashors tooth on anyone but kayle and maybe poppy is literally retarded especially a tankTaric with the AD buff from the ulti begs to differ. Rammus due to his passive granting a lot more AD begs to differ. Oh yes, Singed with lots of AP begs to differ as well, because with high AP and the additional attackspeed he is a mfing tower wrecker.

Forget about the ASPD for a while and appreciate the massive cooldown reduction and the mana regeneration for a bit. This item solves a lot of your issues when you are a skillwhore. Moar cdr - moar stun - moar mana - moar stun.

Show me another item that takes a single slot with as much cdr and regen. I hate getting more items that fill the same role, because I actually use the leftovers for *gasp* tanking.

Voulture
September 30 2011, 09:48:51 AM
Ultimate tank guide:
It's very cool you are unkillable as tank, but you know, giving enemies a reason to focu- to not ignore you might do a charm.

Bluemajere
September 30 2011, 09:52:51 AM
is it possible to argue without calling me stupid? the only reason i told you you didn't know how to play singed was because you irritated me with all your crap about how i was stupid and a bad poster and how that somehow influenced my argument. sunfire cape synergizes great with singed because it gives him more hp, and damages enemies he's around, since he's almost always in melee range of someone. and yes those guides are written by intelligent theorycrafters who spend hours on the subject, and play at a high level, so they do know what they're talking about.


The clue here was "terrible jokes and memes"... those make you sound exactly as I described and they're intended to do nothing more than ridicule and patronise as you well know. Don't try and make out that you're some poor tormented soul when you're nothing more than a troll who cries to mummy.

leave this shit in your head please nobody cares about your ability to insult another.

Blutreiter
September 30 2011, 09:55:00 AM
How much AP do you need on Singed to deal 40 more magic damage with his poison trail?

Bluemajere
September 30 2011, 09:56:04 AM
How much AP do you need on Singed to deal 40 more magic damage with his poison trail?

About 120, his poison has a 30% AP ratio.

Blutreiter
September 30 2011, 10:02:48 AM
About 120, his poison has a 30% AP ratio.And there is the reason for the Sunfire Cape. I do not know of any item that gives you 120 AP plus armor plus that amount health, except maybe if you pair a RoA with a AAS, still missing the armor though AND the RoA needs 10 minutes to reach max potential.

Mendolorian Girl
September 30 2011, 10:13:44 AM
The AAS certainly gives you enough AP to nullify the damage component of a Sunfire Cape (don't forget the nuke aspect from an extra 135 AP on Fling). The two things are entirely separate though, you're never going to be in a situation where you're thinking "do i get AAS or a Cape?".

If you need the extra tank it's because they're focusing you already, in which case a Cape is not a good choice, Randuin's is far superior. If you're after the damage component from a Cape then they're not focusing you and an AAS is a better choice.

Blutreiter
September 30 2011, 10:18:46 AM
The AAS certainly gives you enough AP to nullify the damage component of a Sunfire Cape (don't forget the nuke aspect from an extra 135 AP on Fling). The two things are entirely separate though, you're never going to be in a situation where you're thinking "do i get AAS or a Cape?".

If you need the extra tank it's because they're focusing you already, in which case a Cape is not a good choice, Randuin's is far superior. If you're after the damage component from a Cape then they're not focusing you and an AAS is a better choice.
It is in fact a different situation. Coincidentally, Sunfire plus Omen actually synergizes well together. Omen is superior in terms of tankability, but starts shining if you have enough resists to buff the active slow by at least a second extra, if not more. Omen is still a beautiful item by itself, but without extra resists, a bit wasted potential.

Mendolorian Girl
September 30 2011, 10:29:59 AM
It is in fact a different situation. Coincidentally, Sunfire plus Omen actually synergizes well together. Omen is superior in terms of tankability, but starts shining if you have enough resists to buff the active slow by at least a second extra, if not more. Omen is still a beautiful item by itself, but without extra resists, a bit wasted potential.

With the usual singed build, you'll be at just over 300 Armor with your ult running.. I imagine that'll buff the active slow rather nicely :)

mira o'karr
September 30 2011, 10:32:12 AM
edit: offtopic

Blutreiter
September 30 2011, 10:34:32 AM
With the usual singed build, you'll be at just over 300 Armor with your ult running.. I imagine that'll buff the active slow rather nicely :)That is true, but not if (like we were theorizing) go for a RoA and an AAS, which takes a lot of gold to get in the first place ;)

Mendolorian Girl
September 30 2011, 11:09:03 AM
That is true, but not if (like we were theorizing) go for a RoA and an AAS, which takes a lot of gold to get in the first place ;)

Just to make it clear, I'm not advocating AAS as part of a core build, I just think it's a good "Hmmm, these cunts are ignoring me" item. It's synergy is good because it converts your already massive pool of mana into AP, you don't have to wait for it to build up.

RoE, Frozen Heart (well, the lower part of it whatever that's called) and Banshee's are my core items.

Forever Calzone
September 30 2011, 11:54:24 AM
Forget about malphite imo, played him for a long time, but especially since after this Q nerf he's just completely ignorable. Stuff like malphite + plus orianna ult is great and lulzy, but I really can't see him in everyday play.

- not enough tank
- not enough damage
- if you go full on tank, actually no damage
etc.

Especially after he's done his combo he's can just run around and watch his team die, and his w is kinda pointless. And mobile heroes just laugh at his Q. You might shit on squishies and get lol tower dives with his ult in matches against bads, but especially if you're up against a beefier team, he's useless.

Still might play him again for fun, but haven't in quite a while.

Eh malph is pretty much the top counter to melee ADs he easily rapes irelia/renek/garen and if they're squishy he just rapes the lane even easier. But like I said he isn't a tank you do build a lot of tank items just because of how he scales but he's much more damage orientated.

That ult is an unbelievable initiator as well, longest range aoe stun in game? Thank you much.

As for the AAS discussion there's really no point building it it's expensive, not going to give you much health, simply impossible to get any decent stacking for the passive(3 spells all with long cooldowns) if you really want to nab yourself some AP get a rabadons by the time you'd be buying it there'd be little point getting the staff.

Blutreiter
September 30 2011, 12:08:43 PM
AAS is really tricky for Singed, as in it looks perfect for him, but delays him badly. Tanks that fall behind on tankyness compared to the other team are a liability. If the enemy is retarded, then it makes a good steamroll item, because yes, it actually is very nice.

FatFreddy
September 30 2011, 12:28:22 PM
Eh malph is pretty much the top counter to melee ADs he easily rapes irelia/renek/garen and if they're squishy he just rapes the lane even easier. But like I said he isn't a tank you do build a lot of tank items just because of how he scales but he's much more damage orientated.

That ult is an unbelievable initiator as well, longest range aoe stun in game? Thank you much.


Except it's not a stun.

Yes, he is great against AD. If you get a randuins, yohohoho. But still, too many times I just felt useless in lategame. I am thinking about playing him again and going for more damage, maybe even a RoA. He's a kinda weird melee caster half tank (only e scales off armor, q and ulti off AP).

Zekk Pacus
September 30 2011, 12:35:45 PM
Gunblade, Gunblade Gunblade Gunblade. Malph does MAD DEEPZ with Gunblade, it's a good lategame item on him.

But really they need to tweak his manacosts some, laning with Malph is just a question of 'how quickly do I run out of mana' and like all 'tanks' he has a really bad base hp/mp pool so you're hamstrung before you start.

FatFreddy
September 30 2011, 12:36:35 PM
Gunblade, Gunblade Gunblade Gunblade. Malph does MAD DEEPZ with Gunblade, it's a good lategame item on him.



Intriguing! I've always really built him in the boring tank way.

Forever Calzone
September 30 2011, 01:30:41 PM
For damage items on Malph I'd go trinity or possibly atmas/warmogs. He might scale off of AP but it just doesnt work that well on him it's far better either going full tank or a mix of the usual tank+DPS. Usually a malph wants to initiate on the enemy team and just stick to their ranged carry his E really does screw with their DPS and his own damage can easily melt them.

His problems are down to when he was obscenely popular for a while then riot just gave his health and his passive a nerf which put a hell of a dent in his lane sustain.

Voulture
September 30 2011, 01:59:41 PM
I would say stack armor early, maybe banshee if against many magic. Dodge boots, glacial shroud / sunfire / atma. Triforce very good 4/5th item.

Blutreiter
September 30 2011, 02:13:17 PM
And if you only care for 1 single offensive item, you could probably do worse than getting a Madreds, which also sports extra armor.

Bluemajere
September 30 2011, 08:53:43 PM
at the moment i think, despite epik gaming using him, malphite is just a shitty pick