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View Full Version : Iterating on incursions



Tsubutai
August 30 2011, 10:34:53 AM
So now that we've had incursions for around 9 months, how could they be improved/updated/rebalanced? As far as I can see, there are several key issues


Site variety - OTA OTA OTA OTA OTA NCO OTA OTA OTA NMC OTA.... it gets rather repetetive. This is exacerbated by the fact that...
... Vanguards are ridiculously, completely, indescribably out of whack, to the point that most incursion people run them more or less exclusively. People are now sufficiently familiar with the sites and well skilled/equipped that even scrubby BTL Pub pickup fleets can reasonably expect to break 100m/hour before LP if they are at all selective; more exclusive groups can do substantially better. This has an unfortunate consequence...
...they're deeply hostile to newer players. Hitting those figures requires that everyone be in a good ship and know what they're doing. That means no room for the new guy in his Harbinger (and increasingly, none for the guy in a sensibly-fit T1 BS either). Hey new guy, want to try the headline feature of the last expansion? Well, FUCK OFF AND DON'T COME BACK UNTIL YOU'RE IN A NIGHTMARE, YOU HORRIBLE LITTLE SCRUB.
(the perennial cry) The risk-reward balance in highsec is ridiculous; highsec incursions do not offer appreciably more risk than L4s, but they provide vastly greater rewards.

CCP got a lot right with incursions on the first pass, especially in the way they get highsec bears socialising and working together, but I think all of the above issues need to be addressed. Site variety can be dealt with simply by creating a few new sites; the other three are interrelated and more tricky.
IMO, the solution is two-fold. First, the payouts on vanguards need to be nerfed; they're silly, as is the gap between Scouts and VGs. Bringing the payout per VG down to something between five and seven million (could possibly increase the LP payout a bit at the same time to soften the blow) would still provide good income, but not the ridiculous levels it does at present; it would also drive people towards the rather underused Assault and HQ sites.
Second, there needs to be a cap on the speed with which sites can be blitzed, possibly in the form of a delay in the spawning of new waves. As it stands, you want a highly optimized shiny fleet because every minute you shave off your site completion times drives your profits that much higher; this means no newbies allowed. With a limit, the need to min-max is reduced and so there's more scope for letting newer guys into the fleet without hurting the income of everyone else.

Sponk
August 30 2011, 11:11:18 AM
Insert Jester here.

Fuck newbs btw this is highsec endgame content.

Rudolf Miller
August 30 2011, 11:33:25 AM
I'm thinkin everything else needs iterations first. WH's/0.0/Lowsec/Gallente actually need it now.

Tyrus Tenebros
September 1 2011, 01:22:13 AM
I'm thinkin everything else needs iterations first. WH's/0.0/Lowsec/Gallente actually need it now.Do what I said in the first place, no incursion spawns in high sec, making them not "newbie" content anyways (hence don't worry about new guy), and substantially upping the risk.

Takon Orlani
September 1 2011, 01:41:13 AM
Gallente/0.0/wh/lowsec. Tbh.

Tsubutai
September 1 2011, 05:50:16 AM
Gallente/0.0/wh/lowsec. Tbh.
Gallente/nullsec are already being done, and I really don't see what the major issues are with the other two...

Sponk
September 1 2011, 06:04:21 AM
Gallente/nullsec are already being done
Patch notes or it didn't happen.

Lucas Quaan
September 1 2011, 08:38:56 AM
Move all incursions to low-sec. It makes sense that CONCORD/faction navies protect high-sec and 0.0 doesn't have the planetary population densities for Sansha to raid.

This would be a low-sec boost and a small gang roaming boost at the same time. Now you can actually fight the other people trying to run "your" incursions without simply being pushed aside by a more efficient group. You are also safe from hotdrops and anyone wanting to simply gank some carebears will have to prepare to deal with the incursion rats too. Fun for everyone and rewards the group effort while shutting down the ISK fire-hose (faucet doesn't quite cover it) that is high-sec Vanguards.

Alain Colcer
September 1 2011, 01:48:15 PM
It would be wiser to limit the size of the high-sec incursions to smaller sites and a large fleet at the end, but no mothership, also making them more sporadic.

While low-sec and null-sec have frequent and much larger incursions in place.

Nartek
September 1 2011, 02:33:34 PM
It would be wiser to limit the size of the high-sec incursions to smaller sites and a large fleet at the end, but no mothership, also making them more sporadic.

While low-sec and null-sec have frequent and much larger incursions in place.

You ain't gonna get anyone in low sec who doesn't want to be there. They'll take those tasty nightmares and machs, and do L4's.

I don't see the problem with high sec ones; you can grief, you could theoretically get some serious hulkageddon grief values from suicide ganking some faction kitted shit if you really, really wanted it, it's just that people can't be arsed to do so as of yet. (Hell, you could pull an inside job; join a fleet with a ship scanner, and ID the highest ISK faction modules. You could setup a Sansha support fleet solely to bump the shit out of ships and cause losses that way.)

130k EHP, maybe 65k on shields after resistances for a shield fleet. Just gotta figure out what you need to alpha that in the time it takes concorde to respond. I'd like to see someone do it with a poor mans high sec DD (Smartbombs).

Just sayin, people ain't gonna do lowsec shit like they do highsec now. Most ain't even gonna do it at all, or they'd already fuckin be there doin em. So asking CCP to shit in someone's cheerio's for what you perceive as some kind of gain isn't going to pay out in the end, because it's been tried before with a slew of other shit that's flopped as badly as a fat german kid off a diving board.

If you want to grief them, the tools are there, and the payout is guaranteed to be higher.

Lucas Quaan
September 1 2011, 11:34:29 PM
Just sayin, people ain't gonna do lowsec shit like they do highsec now. Most ain't even gonna do it at all, or they'd already fuckin be there doin em.
Good, that leaves it as a feature for those willing to go there then. We already have a large incursion community (name escapes me at the moment, but I think they even formed an alliance for it) out there running low-sec sites to the point of Goons threatening them if they tried for the Revenant BPCs. Conflict like that is something you can't have in high-sec, where at most you can move up to Vindicators and try to out-dps the opposition.

Right now, incursions are possibly the best paying PvE activity short of farming Sanctums in a Titan. This coupled with the fact that low-sec has needed a boost for quite some time seems like a perfect opportunity to me.

RoemySchneider
September 2 2011, 12:59:24 AM
Patch notes or it didn't happen.and even then.........

Wrack
September 2 2011, 02:02:06 AM
Incursions are actually p good, iterate on FW or PI or POSes or ship balance or the UI or mining or...