Little mention of the RaVen?

[Varius Zamayid]

Been browsing and noticed theres not much mention of the Raven except RE: PvE. Is it really rather fail in PvP or are there situations where it`s viable/useful. Also, if it is sub-optimal what are the reasons? Does anyone enjoy flying it as a PvP ship? I recognise im being vague as regards the situation it might be used in eg. small gang/fleet/solo...However i`d like to know your opinions in all these areas - Thus vague. Ta Muckle

[spm1138]

It's a shield tanking BS and those are generally unpopular.

[Rudolf Miller]

It's a shield tanking BS that has fitting problems with it's most useful setup, and shield tanking BS fleets are massively unpopular unless you expect to die in lag.

[Mr Marram]

It's a shield tanking BS and those are generally unpopular.

Yea malestroms suck, rite ... (Also nightmares, machs and lolrokhs)

You only really see active tanks on those that have the bonus or a full rack of mid slots to get the tank out of it. Otherwise its a buffer tank and LSEs just dont give that much buffer, its like putting 800mm plates on BSes, its wasting a valuable slot ...

Also BS sized missile platforms that dont have an explosion velocity or explosion radius bonus (ie, bombers) tend to suck hard against anything smaller than it without a MWD lit, so putting effective damage down is quite difficult.

[Itiken]

It's only real role would be in RR Armor fleets, but being stuck with 5 lows and a surplus of mids causes problems, nto to mention you need to use one of those lows for a RC II to fit a full rack of Siege II's + 2 RR's onto it. No Damage Mods, poor range, Low EHP...

Fly a Scorpion.

[joe space]

it's fine. people just lack imagination.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

It's more that shield BC and missile ships as a rule are less trained up than armor BS, particularly amongst experienced PvPers...

That said if one were to set out to make a point of LOLRAVEN fleets, you can get (fairly) comparable performance, and better yet, a HELL of a lot of surprise value, out of shortrange raven setups like the one below

[Raven, RRRaven]
Damage Control II
Co-Processor I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Large Shield Extender II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

93k EHP
1107 / 1274 (overheat) dps ((1401 with RAGGEEEEE torps but that's not realistic without targetpainting support)

You can drop the LSE for a web bringing you down to 78k EHP but not affecting incoming reps at all. I'd rather suggest bringing some HAMdrakes fitted with webs (or even scram/TP) rather than bringing down the raven's tank any more than it already is.



Fit has some admitted problems (namely the base EHP number) and is something i whipped up quickly. Pros basically include a lot of people engaging you assuming three ravens will be an easy kill.

Alternatives including downgrading to 'arbalest' launchers at a significant DPS cost but allowing you to fit two RR modules (which has cap problems, of course)

Including Rokhs in a shield BS fleet ups your potential applied DPS as well as range (3x MFS / 1x Te / 1x TC gives you like 22+26 range with null @ 800dps including medium drones) and makes you look really stupid right up until people realize you're in a shield RR configuration.



In short there's a bias against it but its not necessarily "bad"

[Gentle Glide]

when was the raven a shield tanking bs only? (burn eden)

the drake came out and replaced the raven and now its whatever

[K'orbin Hayato]

It's a shield tanking BS and those are generally unpopular.

Let me tell you about sailboats.

[Hellkyte]

It's a shield tanking BS and those are generally unpopular.

I have no idea where this though comes from, but it should probably go back there and die.

Also as for the OP I have no idea, but I never see them. I have heard tale of a mysterious PODLA Drake inspired Raven fit that wanders through null-sec, this way and that.

[bundus]

You know, thinking about it now, it probably is excellent cyno bait.

[zangorus]

willl adama raped some dudes in a pvp video iirc or was it someone else in a raven. couldve been zach donnell i just dont remember

[Tyrus Tenebros]

when was the raven a shield tanking bs only? (burn eden)

the drake came out and replaced the raven and now its whateverRaven is a shitty armor tanking boat for a variety of reasons.

Ravens used to be acceptable, iirc, basically for 2x LRAR fits and "I can't fly anything else but I have good skills for a raven"

[RoemySchneider]

it wouldnt have such a terrible reputation if ppl accepted co-processors to be just as much of a 'fitting mod' as reactor controls -.-

but then again... cruise missiles are kinda lacking. against equally sized ships anyways. they do reeeeelatively well vs cruisers

[Xarthaginian]

I remember when Ravens were fucking awesome, 2 reasons, 1. Cavalry Ravens, and 2. oldschool sniping fleets.

Nowadays Ravens really seem to be the butt of many jokes, probably because they cannot passive tank like a scorp, or active tank while doing any sort of tackle.

[SteeleResolve]

I have used the 6 x cruise, 2 heavy neut, MWD, 2 LSE, 2 Invuln, LR point, 3 BCU and DCU + 1 other low mod raven in the past quite effectively. 600+ dps with drones

[Gix Tyrionn]

The drake has a resist bonus and thus gets more out of invulns. Both have the same number of mids. So the drake has a better tank, torps vs hams, cruise vs heavy's is a pretty lol debate. Oh yeah and the drake gets one more missile slot.

[Ignition SemperFi]

the only use i found w/ a raven is baiting solo vaga types into believing you are a mission runner. with a dual neut, cruise, dual web, scram long range point, mwd, and armor tank. Usually they will try to close in for the kill when your shield is about to drop.

it is fun, but its agonizing as your dps is pathetic and its a one trick pony

[Daneel Trevize]

What about the final mid slot, eccm or painter?

[Raven, Bait]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Precision Cruise Missile
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Precision Cruise Missile
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Precision Cruise Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Precision Cruise Missile

Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

[Samp]

Maybe another reason not to fly a raven is that if you wanted to use torps (I don't know why you would) or cruise you can get the same damage bonus from a typhoon plus guns/nutes whatever and have armour. You don't get the range bonus on the phoon, but TBH if you want range, you can just use turret ships, plus you get alpha plus they aren't terrible. You can get useable misslespam range from drakes and tengus which also tank and do other spaceship stuff.

It's just eve, a system doesn't have to be terrible to be ignored, just has to be sub-optimal. Thank fuck tq is up I can stop typing.

[Shade Millith]

Raven can work. It's not the 'best', but it still works.

[Raven, Armor copy 1]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter
Peripheral Weapon Navigation Diameter
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

96k ehp, 870dps, more tackle than you can shake a stick at. Same agility as a dual plated Mega, 90m/s slower


[Raven, Bigger fatter Drake]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Nosferatu II

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

78k ehp, 1100dps.

[Kyle Semones]

WTS :
X-Large Shield Extender II
Power : 400
CPU : 95
Shield : +4500
Signature Radius : +70


But seriously, I think Gentle Glide nailed it, with the cheaper drake doing a lot of things the same or better, the Raven was just phased out. Esp with EWar stacking penalties coming about which hurt the armor fits.. But now that its assumed to be such a flop of a ship people will engage without much precaution so you can exploit that with the bait fits.

[Gypsio]

It does a perfectly good job of applying a seriously large amount of DPS to other BS (and pretty well to BCs, especially fat Drake-shaped ones). The problem as people have mentioned is fitting it into a gang/fleet, so it's best used in smaller gangs. And the existence of the Typhoon...

[Raven, Torp buffer]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Warp Disruptor II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5

94k EHP (104k overloaded), 1163 DPS, fully damage selectable (well apart from the drones but you know what I mean).
A comparable dual-BCS Typhoon fit might have pretty similar EHP, but less DPS without guns (with guns it gets more than that Raven, but you can fit 2 guns on the Raven too, ah, they can both get vaguely similar DPS. Typhoon is much more SP-intensive though).

As for armour-Raven, ewar in the meds can be more useful than tackle - although, as people have noted, you can do this in a Drake too:

[Raven, RR torp]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Some drones.

But really the Raven is another ship that has suffered from the unending tier 2 BC spam. Break out the nerfcannon, I say!

[TZeer]

when was the raven a shield tanking bs only? (burn eden)

the drake came out and replaced the raven and now its whatever


We never shield tanked our ravens. Only tank we had was a 1600mm tungsten plate as buffer and a medium armor rep.

Ravens stopped being relevant when CCP nerfed cruisemissiles to shit.

[Kyle Semones]

think GG was saying that as burn eden is an example of not shield tanking the raven. EG the old plate/cruise/damps setups =]

[TZeer]

doh!

[LordsServant]

I hear they're good for botting....altho that might fall under pve. Altho if the mass amount of sperging scrubs are to be believed, only ~elite pvpers~ bot...so it could be argued it helps in a pvp "role." lulz :P

-Lords

[Tyrus Tenebros]

I hear they're good for botting....altho that might fall under pve. Altho if the mass amount of sperging scrubs are to be believed, only ~elite pvpers~ bot...so it could be argued it helps in a pvp "role." lulz :P

-LordsA brilliant contribution.

[Lex Fasces]

I hear they're good for botting....altho that might fall under pve. Altho if the mass amount of sperging scrubs are to be believed, only ~elite pvpers~ bot...so it could be argued it helps in a pvp "role." lulz :P

-LordsA brilliant contribution.

i think all three of our posts are equal in their contributions to the topic on hand tbh

[Keorythe]

Have discovered that Ravens will outdamage any other subcap when ref'ing towers. :psyduck:

[Rexthor Hammerfists]

Have discovered that Ravens will outdamage any other subcap when ref'ing towers. :psyduck:

But you have to run away when the owner show up to defend it, when with other ships you may have a chance to fight instead.