Titan's DD change

[Marlona Sky]

Like many have said before, a couple titans is ok but when you go beyond five on the field things can get out of hand quickly.

Now before I say anything, just like with all proposals, there will most likely be other balance changes that would need.to happen to titans and or other ships and weapons that would affect this. In short, this is no damn golden bullet to solve all ship balance woes in one shot.

That said, on with my proposal:

Every time a doomsday goes off, every super capital on grid losses 30% capacitor.
This not 30% of the possible capacitor but of the current capacitor they have.

This has multiple affects to the battlefield.

Every super capital on grid is now commited to the system, even if only for a few moments before having enough capacitor to jump out.
If it is the beginning of a fight and a dozen or so titans decide to start spamming DDs left and right, very quickly all titans on grid will not have enough capacitor to fire their DDs. Thus decreasing the rate at which they will be one shotting sub capitals that can potentially tackle them.
Due to massive DD spam, you now have all those super carriers struggling to use their remote repairs that they would use to create an unbreakable spider tank.
They also could not perma run smartbombs vaporizing any interdictor that was tackling them.
Perma running neutralizers on HICs tackling them would also become more difficult.
Increased risk for active hardeners to turn off due to no capacitor, thus lowering their EHP. This would make some super capital pilots opt for more passive hardeners as a work around. That would still mean less EHP, so it is a win win situation.


Thought and any other affects to the battlefield I missed?

[RoemySchneider]

will supercaps be immune to archon cap (chains)?

[Archon, triage]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capital Armor Repairer I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Triage Module I
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

= +2400cap per fscking second ["unchained" obv]

[Marlona Sky]

will supercaps be immune to archon cap (chains)?

[Archon, triage]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capital Armor Repairer I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Triage Module I
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

= +2400cap per fscking second

Needing support from non-super capitals is a good thing. That Archon looks like a good target to DD from an enemy titans point of view. Possibly jam with a falcon?

I know your going to throw some scenarios out there to offset my idea, but keep in mind your scenarios require other ships to play a 'support' role. Showing up in another super capital will not count to fill that role. So yes, that Archon showing up is a nice side effect. :)

[RoemySchneider]

eh ye sure
now think that cap transfer one step further, think aeons [yesyes obv no triage yaddayaddayadda, but who cares with 50+ aeons]

sure, you got a wee bit less remote armor repping and a tiny bit less FB-dps due to fewer nyxes but that's it
vOv

[Marlona Sky]

eh ye sure
now think that cap transfer one step further, think aeons [yesyes obv no triage yaddayaddayadda, but who cares with 50+ aeons]

sure, you got a wee bit less remote armor repping and a tiny bit less FB-dps due to fewer nyxes but that's it
vOv

All those Aeon's going to fit that fit you linked above? Don't forget, -30% to whatever your capacitor was at whenever any titan on the field wants to blow his load.

Another thing is removing all super carriers logistics bonus would be one of those other balancing things that should be considered. So possibly no range bonus to the remote capacitor module.

Not trying to find a reason to disagree with you, just pointing out other changes might come into play in order for this to feel right.

[Shin_getter]

I wounder if a round of capless minmatar imba whine would happen, but I don't know how much cap those weapons spends relative to absolute amounts available.

[RoemySchneider]

All those Aeon's going to fit that fit you linked above? Don't forget, -30% to whatever your capacitor was at whenever any titan on the field wants to blow his load.since they're not triage'able anyways... cap chains


[Aeon, New Setup 1]
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Damage Control II
F-89 Synchronized Signal Amplifier

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution

Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I

Large Egress Port Maximizer II
Large Egress Port Maximizer II
Large Egress Port Maximizer I

[im sure theres a way to squeeze 0.5cpu out of it]

2x on a buddy, 4x on a titan
or make that 3&3 for good measure while losing cap to the 'neuting' DDs
or - more realistically - 2&2 and 2 other tools in the high slots.
either way, it's 200 cap/s per transfer. 10 aeons calling the next friendly titan primary and he'll have enough cap to DD within 10sec


don't get me wrong, it's a perfectly valid idea and i'm not trying to debunk it 'by all means necessary'
but - as you (more or less) said - we'll have to get back to the drawing board and ask that fundamental question if moms should be of primarily offensive or defensive nature.
i wouldnt mind giving them a triage module as well which would _then_ give range bonuses to the various remote thingies - while crippling the drone wielding capabilities to 0 [and prevent incoming RR -..-] , see carrier triage. just not both things at the same time [plus a tank to rival surpass a minnie titan]

and i really wouldnt mind changing cap transfers to something "boosting cap recharge and cap injection amounts". then ships will need to get their own cap 'income' up which gets boosted - rather than getting free cap out of nowhere

[Rudolf Miller]

[bad excuse] in all reality it would be too taxing on the game to constantly do these calculations on a live grid, especially when such titan numbers tend to bring forth a blob with them [/bad excuse]

i like the spirit, but ~ccp~

[Marlona Sky]

i wouldnt mind giving them a triage module as well which would _then_ give range bonuses to the various remote thingies - while crippling the drone wielding capabilities to 0 [and prevent incoming RR -..-] , see carrier triage. just not both things at the same time [plus a tank to rival surpass a minnie titan]

and i really wouldnt mind changing cap transfers to something "boosting cap recharge and cap injection amounts". then ships will need to get their own cap 'income' up which gets boosted - rather than getting free cap out of nowhere

With a triage module then you push them into the 'self reliant' part that I want to get them away from. They need to be in more danger. That said I don't want super caps to become POS ornaments again. What I want to break is the mentality and sheer fact of the matter that when there is enough supers on the field, they don't need anything else. More supers should start to become an Achilles Heel so to speak.

Back to logi style super carriers; This too is not a terrible thing. They are sacrificing tank, tackle, utility high slots that normally would be for neutralizers and smartbombs and the remote ECM burst. In my opinion they should excel at capital killing and do 'meh' in everything else, tank, logi, tackle, etc.


[bad excuse] in all reality it would be too taxing on the game to constantly do these calculations on a live grid, especially when such titan numbers tend to bring forth a blob with them [/bad excuse]

i like the spirit, but ~ccp~

How would it be anymore taxing than bombers dropping void bombs? I refuse to give in to the 'too hard to program/effort/"my precious fps backbone!" argument. This is not at you specifically, but lets pretend :ccp: was not an issue. What other problems/perks to this change do you see? Anything else that would need to happen for it to 'feel' right?

[Shin_getter]

Wait, the proposal is in conjunction with a removal of the original DD cool down?

Perhaps one could make titans have extremely fast DD cycle and let it be nearly entirely cap dependent while nuking cap of every super on grid. In this environment, capacitor recharge is the key to dps and armies of carriers would cap transfer the titan with the cap.

So you remove the titan blob and replace it with carrier blob + one titan to convert their spare cap into dps.

[Marlona Sky]

Wait, the proposal is in conjunction with a removal of the original DD cool down?

No where in my idea did I touch on the cycle time of the DD. It would remain the same cycle time as it is now, which is 5 minutes iirc.

[Shin_getter]

No where in my idea did I touch on the cycle time of the DD. It would remain the same cycle time as it is now, which is 5 minutes iirc.
Now I'm nowhere near a titan a pilot, but wouldn't the winning strategy (assuming DD wins here) here is to keep titans off grid and DD as they come in, then get out so the next titan could do DD without draining cap.

That may not work if align times are too long, tackles are too easy, warp capacitor use is too high and so on. But someone need to check that this is actually case especially after players actually fit for the purpose. (shield istab nano titan?)

[Helen]

Even if you got this idea through to CCP and it was implemented you'd just end up whining about titans using guns to wipe out cap fleets.

[Al Simmons]

My idea for Doomsdays is that every time one is fired, the titan has a 1/6th chance to blow up. Like Russian Roulette!!

[zangorus]

what about it just removes everyone target... so relocking would be a bitch

[Marlona Sky]

Even if you got this idea through to CCP and it was implemented you'd just end up whining about titans using guns to wipe out cap fleets.

No. There is a problem with titans turrets and launchers having a built in siege module with all the benefits and none of the penalties but that is another matter. I am specifically talking about the doomsday device.


My idea for Doomsdays is that every time one is fired, the titan has a 1/6th chance to blow up. Like Russian Roulette!!

Pretty sure that won't happen. lol


what about it just removes everyone target... so relocking would be a bitch

That is pretty much the same thing as the projected ecm burst that the super carriers use.

One of the huge problems is scaling when it comes to titans and super carriers. When there is only a couple on the battlefield they feel balanced. When there is dozens and up to a hundred, they feel out of control and over powered.

The idea is that the more and more you pile onto the battlefield the less and less effective they become when it comes to the doomsday. Also increasing the need for support and logistics to function would be welcomed.

[kyrieee]

Why the fuck do we even need a Doomsday? It's not the biggest problem in the game but it's stupid and it only exists because of a spaceship fantasy some random icelandic dude had 9 years ago. If it weren't already in the game they'd never add it.

[Pattern]

Bring back the old DD, put a global system cool down timer of 1 hour (no titans can fire a DD for an hour after the last) and make interceptors and EAF's or ships that fly above a certain velocity immune.

The tactics would be much richer than the current "dice roll which cap dies next" crap.

[Al Simmons]

Bring back the old DD, put a global system cool down timer of 1 hour (no titans can fire a DD for an hour after the last) and make interceptors and EAF's or ships that fly above a certain velocity immune.

The tactics would be much richer than the current "dice roll which cap dies next" crap.

Pretty sure the old cooldown on AOE DDs was 1 hour. Also your idea is some rather arbitrary bullshit which would just mean everyone who could afford to would only fly Machs or something dumb.

Edit: oh wait you mean the cooldown should be one DD per hour per system? That's even more fucking arbitrary and retarded.

[Shin_getter]

Global probably mean "universe wide"

So some guy will be DDing rats in a dead end system and lockdown the entire universe of titans muhahahahahahaha :lol:

[Pattern]

Pretty sure the old cooldown on AOE DDs was 1 hour. Also your idea is some rather arbitrary bullshit which would just mean everyone who could afford to would only fly Machs or something dumb.

Edit: oh wait you mean the cooldown should be one DD per hour per system? That's even more fucking arbitrary and retarded.
*Shrugs*
Lives in the part of eve defined by arbitrary limits. Super Caps? No. Blob? No. Decent PvP and Fun game play? Yes.