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Rudolf Miller
April 11 2011, 01:52:18 AM
[Vengeance, VENGENCE]
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

Option out the web for a cap booster if you so desire.

96DPS tank 139DPS output. 946m/s AB 1249m/s overheat.

walrus
April 11 2011, 02:13:08 AM
*Vengeance

Ranshe
April 11 2011, 08:45:17 AM
[Vengeance, brick]
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Warp Scrambler II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Nanobot Accelerator I


233 tank/92 dps before heating stuff, stable as long you have boosters, flies like a brick with engines that it is. I'll probably try replacing the AB for a MWD so I actually have a chance to catch something with it though.

Mayar
April 13 2011, 06:07:30 AM
[Vengeance, 400 tank]
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

With my skills it has near 14k EHP, tanks 66 dps, deals 75 (245 volley), caps lasts for more than 16 mins - so we can say it is stable. I like it better than the above setup because of the web.

Tyrus Tenebros
April 13 2011, 08:28:53 PM
[Vengeance, VengeanceFgtDualRep]
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200

Rocket Launcher II, Phalanx Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Phalanx Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Phalanx Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Phalanx Rage Rocket

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II

Tackle bigger target. Apply exile.

Lol until your backup arrives.

Or kill basically any frigate over time if he doesn't have tooo much backup.

121 (143) dps
245 vanilla, 377 booster + overheat tank.

(for the absurd out there, tanks 698 with a legion booster, exile, and overheat, which is hilarious)

Tafkat
April 13 2011, 09:36:54 PM
Or kill basically any frigate over time if he doesn't have tooo much backup.

...and doesn't have the sense to go "oh, it is a vengeance and it is not webbing me, it's a silly dualrep fit, i am going to test his tank for a bit and then amble out of scram range"

If your target is an AB frig with a web, he'll disengage effortlessly. Also, since you have no web of your own, your DPS (which is mediocre on the Venge to begin with) becomes utterly woeful when applied to another AB frig. You could maaaaaaybe make it work with some godlike bait-tanking, but even then, you're only going to kill utter morons.

Jaxley
April 20 2011, 12:27:12 PM
I like single rep with web and 200mm plate. Nice middle ground between 400mm brick and webless dual rep.


[Vengeance, Capable Runt]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II

200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II

Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I


It has had little trouble with any AF I encountered so far. Wolf and Enyo get utterly wasted; Jag has to run; Ishkur can't keep it in blaster or rail range. Can't see the Caldari AFs hold a candle to it either, though I haven't fought those yet. Nobody cares about Retribution.

Andrea Griffin
June 23 2011, 01:49:37 AM
Here is how I like to fit mine:

[Vengeance, Derp]
Small Armor Repairer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I

The Nanofiber helps the Vengeance out a LOT, bringing it up to 942m/s (1.2km overloaded). Tanks 94 DPS with 7.4k EHP, deals 103 rocket DPS, cap stable (barely).

Plenty of power grid to spare. Tight on the CPU though.

Tafkat
November 22 2011, 10:07:34 PM
[Vengeance, mwd]
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Coreli C-Type Thermic Plating
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Ballistic Control System II

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Foxfire Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Foxfire Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Foxfire Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Foxfire Rage Rocket

Small Bay Loading Accelerator II
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

For lowsec AB-only stuff, swap mwd for AB (obviously...) and upgrade the damage control to T2. 150 dps before heat with rage, which works OK on most webbed frigates. Range rig because if you don't have it, unbonused rockets with perfect skills peter out at around 8 km, making you vulnerable to good scram-kiters who can otherwise sit right at the edge of scram range and pound you without taking any damage whatsoever. Thermic plating rather than ANP because your exp/kin resists don't need the help, but hobgoblins and RF PP will hurt a lot without it. T2 MWD for slightly more cap life/regen when repping with it deactivated compared to cold-gas.

RoemySchneider
November 23 2011, 10:24:36 PM
[Vengeance, New Setup 2]
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Warp Scrambler II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I


138dps w/ CNAM, 155dps for void.
note: this is still pre-crucible; fitting becomes a lot more flexible with MAPC II and/or new blaster stats

n0th
November 24 2011, 11:58:11 AM
Expanded Probe Launcher I

where is it?

RoemySchneider
November 24 2011, 11:35:19 PM
Expanded Probe Launcher I

where is it?

can't be done properly on AFs; too little base cpu

that said:

[Vengeance, New Setup 3]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

would still prefer a vigil (http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?243-PVP-Vigil)

RoemySchneider
December 19 2011, 09:29:52 AM
[Vengeance, New Setup 2]
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Warp Scrambler II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I


138dps w/ CNAM, 155dps for void.
note: this is still pre-crucible; fitting becomes a lot more flexible with MAPC II and/or new blaster stats

*crucible revisit*

[Vengeance, New Setup 2]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Centii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I

154 dps CNAM
172 dps void

alas, only 3km/s _with_ heat (prior to imps'n'stuff) 8[
not sure i like EM to be the lowest resistance either ..... -.-

Rania Serlia
January 25 2012, 06:32:44 AM
New Vengeance, new fit.

Thinking of running this:
[Vengeance, rockat luncher]
Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Corpii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Ballistic Control System II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Nosferatu II

Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

7922 ehp, 180/220 dps, 102/132 tanked. A T2 small cap booster slots in nicely in place of the web as well if you prefer(say, to fuel that neut you slotted in place of the nosf).

This ship has a lot of powergrid, but not quite enough to run dualreps plus a neut, plus mwd and injector. Well, until you throw an ACR on it. Thus, alternate potential fit #2:

[Vengeance, DualrepNeut]
Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Corpii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II
Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

8376 ehp, 212/274 tanked, or 343 with imp. exile, or 782 with imp exile and legion.
Of course it only deals 137/161 dps...

Daneel Trevize
January 25 2012, 12:45:48 PM
This seemed to work well

[Vengeance, New? cheaper?]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I

F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Ballistic Control System II
100mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

ANP gives 20% better repped, 0.1s agility for 0.4k less EHP.

[Vengeance, New? cheaper? ANP 2]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Ballistic Control System II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Small Armor Repairer II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

Heavy tackler?

[Vengeance, New? AB 200mm?]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Small 'Knave' Energy Drain
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Ballistic Control System II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II

Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

Oh and a de-pimped dual rep fit, really quite comparable being as so much CPU was left that an EANM fits with T2 tank. Perhaps use 200s as 20 is going to waste each time from 400s and you're giving them more cap to nos/neut.

[Vengeance, 2 reps, nos]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Small Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

prometheus
January 25 2012, 10:17:55 PM
I'm pretty much running the ANP fit only with a faction thermic plate, an anti-em pump, and t2 damage rig.

Daneel Trevize
January 25 2012, 10:58:55 PM
Faction? Doesn't that still make thermal the weakest resist, and best default damage type for people to load if they can anyway? Even a 4mil a-type thermic plating's just bringing the resist ahead of the then-weakest kinetic, and what it would have been with the T2 ANP.

prometheus
January 26 2012, 12:01:27 AM
The overall resist profile is better and is stronger against the most common ammo types you're going to have trouble with (emp,pp,therm,em).
People aren't really going to be using Kinetic/Explosive against the ships if they have a choice.

Stoffl
January 26 2012, 09:53:27 AM
[Vengeance, http://27.media.tumblr.com/avatar_6feb8634e3d0_128.png]
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Coreli A-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Scrambler II

Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Requires pg4 and CA-1, tanks 445 deeps overloaded with standard exile

Mr Marram
January 26 2012, 11:12:50 AM
[Vengeance, stofflsisadick]
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer

Coreli A-Type 1MN MicroWarpdrive
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Scrambler II

Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Requires pg4 and CA-1, tanks 445 deeps overloaded with standard exile

fixed so people can actually copy the fit into eft

Stoffl
January 26 2012, 11:27:31 AM
meight that wasn't an issue since Copy&Paste would just leave the fitting name blank and EFT has no problem whatsoever importing it. vOv

Mr Marram
January 26 2012, 01:01:32 PM
meight that wasn't an issue since Copy&Paste would just leave the fitting name blank and EFT has no problem whatsoever importing it. vOv
Ahh alright, didn't realise you could import nameless fits now. Sorry brew.

Alistair
January 26 2012, 05:51:57 PM
No EFT or the like at work, so forgive blind-theorycrafting here.

Could one now fit a Vengy as a ultra-durable long-range Mid-Size Fleet Tackler?

Highs: Standards (or Whatever tbh)
----
Mids: MWD
Mids: Cap Booster
Mids: Long Range Point
----
Lows: 2x Reps
Lows: Resists Mods
----
Rigs: 2x Armor Rep Rigs

Vengy can cruise at what, 2700 m/s or so unplated w/ MWD on?
With Duel Rep and Boosters can take a ton more pain than say, a Maled could.

If whats needed is a durable hard-to-shake long-point, could this fill that role?

Daneel Trevize
January 26 2012, 06:15:13 PM
It does 2265m/s before heat, without armour rigs that'd slow it. Also align is 6.64. Going with a naive no. Did you mean Retribution?

prometheus
January 26 2012, 07:47:10 PM
@Stoffls fit,
no different than pre-crucible. it merely does a little more daamge

n0th
February 23 2012, 08:52:23 PM
After experimenting with faction/deadspace, i settled for this reasonably cheap fit (similiar fits posted, just for completeness sake)

[Vengeance, yo]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Small Armor Repairer II
Ballistic Control System II
Coreli A-Type Thermic Plating

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

117dps tank w/heat and standard Exile; 212/242 heated dps (CN/rage) of selectable damage type; 7.6k eHP.
Easy win vs. standard-fit Harpy/Hawk/Wolf/Jaguar/Enyo while also suitable for proper 0.0 roaming (MWD/rep/nos). Such a nice ship.

jonesbones
February 27 2012, 02:14:06 PM
[Vengeance, Mini HAX]
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
N-Type Thermic Membrane I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II

Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Rocket Launcher II, Trauma Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Trauma Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Trauma Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Trauma Rage Rocket
Small Remote Armor Repair System II

Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I


Small gangs of these are hilarious to fly.

Mr Marram
February 27 2012, 09:10:02 PM
After experimenting with faction/deadspace, i settled for this reasonably cheap fit (similiar fits posted, just for completeness sake)

[Vengeance, yo]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Small Armor Repairer II
Ballistic Control System II
Coreli A-Type Thermic Plating

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

117dps tank w/heat and standard Exile; 212/242 heated dps (CN/rage) of selectable damage type; 7.6k eHP.
Easy win vs. standard-fit Harpy/Hawk/Wolf/Jaguar/Enyo while also suitable for proper 0.0 roaming (MWD/rep/nos). Such a nice ship.

why not throw a faction NOS, rep (best idea) and/or mwd on there too, looking at ~12mil per module, cost goes up yes but so does effectiveness.

n0th
February 28 2012, 05:36:41 AM
Not enough bang for the buck tbh.
I've yet to encounter a frigate which wont be completely owned by this fit. I can think of some - faggot ecm drone ishkur comes to mind, ab rail dd w/ a lot of pimp, maybe some competently flown kiting fits should i actually commit (killed prom-style artywolf with ease, though it wasnt really well piloted).

All the faction/deadspace doesnt help one bit when you die due to bad piloting/ecm/blob etc. Also 50mill extra starts to add up really quickly as i lose those on a daily basis (11 in February and counting).

Tyrus Tenebros
February 28 2012, 06:46:03 AM
c-type rep is a p. decent improvement.

OrangeAfroMan
June 29 2012, 09:25:33 PM
I came up with almost the same fit but with an anti-em pump instead of calefaction catalyst.

Acidictadpole
July 6 2012, 08:01:01 PM
[Vengeance, 2rep rockets]
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Warp Scrambler II
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 200

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I


DPS is a little lacking but damn this ship can tank.

Lex Fasces
July 6 2012, 08:16:20 PM
dps is great on a vengeance, almost no other ship does completely selectable dps solidly at 9k.

however it NEEDS a web. without a web rocket dps is godawful

Acidictadpole
July 6 2012, 08:30:47 PM
dps is great on a vengeance, almost no other ship does completely selectable dps solidly at 9k.

however it NEEDS a web. without a web rocket dps is godawful

Does EFTs DPS graph not work well with rockets or something? I put an MWD on my target thrasher and it's still hitting for full damage even without a web.

Edit: Looks like it doesn't reduce damage by explosion velocity. That's a pain.

Tyrus Tenebros
July 6 2012, 08:49:04 PM
dps is great on a vengeance, almost no other ship does completely selectable dps solidly at 9k.

however it NEEDS a web. without a web rocket dps is godawful

Does EFTs DPS graph not work well with rockets or something? I put an MWD on my target thrasher and it's still hitting for full damage even without a web.

Edit: Looks like it doesn't reduce damage by explosion velocity. That's a pain.
MWD boosts sig radius too. Try with an afterburner?

And try using a frigate? It's always seemed to work using both metrics for me. Rockets are pretty decent against things of destroyer sigradius btw.

Acidictadpole
July 6 2012, 08:53:22 PM
I was looking around for the rocket formula and found that it used the minimum damage of the sigres : explores and the velocity : explovel. I figured that if the rockets were going to be reduced, most of it would have come from moving 1800m/s.

That said, it does look like you're right. Adding an AB reduced it to 69 dps or so. Viewing the charge on the rocket shows the explosion velocity as 180, so I thought anything going over 180 would get reduced damage.

Ophichius
July 6 2012, 09:03:03 PM
I was looking around for the rocket formula and found that it used the minimum damage of the sigres : explores and the velocity : explovel. I figured that if the rockets were going to be reduced, most of it would have come from moving 1800m/s.

That said, it does look like you're right. Adding an AB reduced it to 69 dps or so. Viewing the charge on the rocket shows the explosion velocity as 180, so I thought anything going over 180 would get reduced damage.

Actually the missile formula combines the effects of sigrad and expvel into a single multiplier. High speed + high sigrad = roughly the same as low speed + low sigrad.

-O

Acidictadpole
July 6 2012, 09:11:17 PM
I must have been looking at an outdated formula then.

Thanks.

Ophichius
July 6 2012, 09:17:42 PM
I must have been looking at an outdated formula then.

Thanks.

The formula hasn't changed ever. Here's a good link for all the maths: http://mcc3d.com/game/EVE-Online:Formulae

-O

LordsServant
July 7 2012, 02:34:02 AM
This is a fit that iirc me and prom were discussing a while(months) ago.


[Vengeance, deeps]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Small Armor Repairer II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Small Nosferatu II

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

Not much of a tank, but 237 heated dps of selectable type...not that bad methinks. Also, noone expects ~dps~ from a lolvengeance. In the idea of "up engaging" this would prob work very well due to stable reps, decent dps, and not horrible tank over time due to naturally sexy resists.

Garviel
July 7 2012, 04:39:11 AM
Fantastic dps on that but...

I would at least fit a thermal rig.. It just doesn't get enough dps to justify the tank loss. An mid range veng gets 202 dps heated. 35 dps is not very much for such a huge tank sacrifice.

Kalar Freno
July 9 2012, 08:32:24 AM
This is a fit that iirc me and prom were discussing a while(months) ago.


[Vengeance, deeps]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Small Armor Repairer II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Small Nosferatu II

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

Not much of a tank, but 237 heated dps of selectable type...not that bad methinks. Also, noone expects ~dps~ from a lolvengeance. In the idea of "up engaging" this would prob work very well due to stable reps, decent dps, and not horrible tank over time due to naturally sexy resists.

This is actually 231 dps *before* heat (272 with heat, no implants), which given it also boasts a reasonable tank and is missile damage is quite impressive. I might switch the rigs for a t2 missile rig and a thermic pump (same dps), but t2 missile rigs do seem insanely expensive atm...

n0th
July 9 2012, 11:55:45 AM
Not worth it.
Just ditch the Nos for more deeps. For frig vs. frig the nos is useless, the cap recharge bonus is that awesome.
Nos is only useful in a hypothetical engagement where you brawl down a bigger ship under neuts - be honest that wont happen.
With a single 280mm arty its 257 heated rage dps while preserving 105 heated dps tanked (125 w/ exile) and ok-ish eHP.

Kalar Freno
July 9 2012, 02:54:39 PM
Not worth it.
Just ditch the Nos for more deeps. For frig vs. frig the nos is useless, the cap recharge bonus is that awesome.
Nos is only useful in a hypothetical engagement where you brawl down a bigger ship under neuts - be honest that wont happen.
With a single 280mm arty its 257 heated rage dps while preserving 105 heated dps tanked (125 w/ exile) and ok-ish eHP.

Hmm, interesting. Not sure why you'd go with arty though - surely this is a brawler, and your arty won't track at all once you're in rocket range. Wouldn't an autocannon be better? Something like this:

[Vengeance, no nos]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Centii A-Type Thermic Plating
Small Armor Repairer II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Inferno Rage Rocket

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Anti-EM Pump I

217/255 dps (no implants), 87/112 dps tank (no drugs), and 8431 EHP. A T2 rig will take you to 228/268 dps, but I don't think it's worth it.

Suleiman Shouaa
July 9 2012, 02:59:04 PM
Don't use an AC - Vengeances tend to fight at the edge of scrambler range instead of up close. Un-range/damage bonused ACs have terrible projection - thus use a Laser instead.

OrangeAfroMan
July 9 2012, 08:53:30 PM
Use Gatling or Dual Light Pulse :)

prometheus
July 9 2012, 09:37:03 PM
or.. use a nos and never worry about getting neuted out :shitshit:

Tarkis
July 10 2012, 07:58:44 AM
A neut will cap out a Nos Vengeance with a scram, web and armor rep running. I just found this out the hard way. (I have an AB fit but it wasn't running, FYI).

kyrieee
July 10 2012, 10:01:40 PM
I must have been looking at an outdated formula then.

Thanks.

The formula hasn't changed ever. Here's a good link for all the maths: http://mcc3d.com/game/EVE-Online:Formulae

-O

No, it did change ages ago, like 2005 or something.

Also, be aware that DPS graphs in EFT assume that your tackle / ewar is running. If you have a web fitted on a ship you select as an attacker, the graph will be for a webbed ship (unless you deactivate the mod). Same with TPs etc. It doesn't make that very clear though.

Kalar Freno
July 10 2012, 10:24:27 PM
Also, be aware that DPS graphs in EFT assume that your tackle / ewar is running. If you have a web fitted on a ship you select as an attacker, the graph will be for a webbed ship (unless you deactivate the mod). Same with TPs etc. It doesn't make that very clear though.

While it does calculate webs correctly, it doesn't seem to realise that your scram will shut off an MWD, so you'll have to do that manually if you want to see the effect.

Garviel
July 17 2012, 11:38:29 AM
A neut will cap out a Nos Vengeance with a scram, web and armor rep running. I just found this out the hard way. (I have an AB fit but it wasn't running, FYI).

A small neut?

Are you running a retarded dual rep setup?

I have NEVER been neuted out in the veng against anything with less than 2 neuts..

Anna Scot
January 29 2013, 03:24:05 PM
I hardly see any setup without an AB does this mean the AB is worthless to fit? Is it to much of a brick to fly then? For low sec engagements I was thinking something like this:

[Vengeance, low sec single rep]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

266/313 dps
75/97 dps tanked
941/1241m/s

on paper it looks pretty solid or am i mistaken?

W0lf Crendraven
January 29 2013, 03:55:53 PM
Ab>mwd in for fighting, mwd is more usefull tho. For fw lowsec fit a ab if you certain that you only will do 1v1/2s, vs other stuff you need the mwd to seperate them, also if you enter and a kiting crusier/frig sitts at range then you have a chance with a mwd but if you have an ab your dead. For null fit a mwd. For other lowsec if recommend a mwd in general, you dont really need to control range, even tho that will make fighting enyos and such easier.


Also fit a nos instead of the dlpl, with a nos you can kill most cruisers/bs once you have them, without it neuts become a serious problem.

ry ry
January 29 2013, 06:15:32 PM
I flew around in that vengeance for a while, its quite good but most people assume you are overtanked and keep range. The tank isn't amazing either - against ships with big dps or alpha, your resists+ single repper tank can struggle.

Its a good ship though, and my favourite vengeance to fly. Give it a whirl!

+Nos or AC. Btw, cap is life ;)

Garviel
January 30 2013, 07:31:53 AM
The thing is that the veng is the only ship that is so fucking manly that it doesn't give a shit if it has a AB in a fight or not.


Basically a AB is better in a fight but the Veng already takes most (Pretty much all) other frigs with a mwd and the mwd lets you catch or chase of kiters

Marlona Sky
February 1 2013, 07:41:49 AM
Here is the setup I love to use for very small engagements. (as in 1v1 or 1v2 situations against other frigates)

[Vengeance, Solo - AB]
Reactive Armor Hardener
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Small Armor Repairer II
Ballistic Control System II

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket

Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I

You can swap the AB for for Limited MWD and meta 4 scram for the Initiated scram. It is 256 dps with rage rockets overloaded. Just be sure to target small stuff and avoid like the plague medium neuts and high tracking high alpha shit like those damn tier 3 bc's. Note the RAH. I love it. Your tank is solid enough to allow it enough time to shift the whole way. By then you are only bursting your rep once in a while and they are most likely dead or close to it.

OrangeAfroMan
February 1 2013, 09:53:48 AM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

Marlona Sky
February 1 2013, 04:56:43 PM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

I try to engage on gates. If it is something that wants to just kite you, tank it till you can jump out.

OrangeAfroMan
February 1 2013, 05:13:38 PM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

I try to engage on gates. If it is something that wants to just kite you, tank it till you can jump out.

Well, what I mean is its more vulnerable to getting blobbed than a kiting Harpy

Garviel
February 2 2013, 12:26:16 AM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

I try to engage on gates. If it is something that wants to just kite you, tank it till you can jump out.

Well, what I mean is its more vulnerable to getting blobbed than a kiting Harpy

Which is why a proper veng fit has a mwd on it.

OrangeAfroMan
February 2 2013, 04:16:12 AM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

I try to engage on gates. If it is something that wants to just kite you, tank it till you can jump out.

Well, what I mean is its more vulnerable to getting blobbed than a kiting Harpy

Which is why a proper veng fit has a mwd on it.

Outside FW plexes stuff has plenty of time to jump/warp on top of you

Marlona Sky
February 2 2013, 07:58:19 AM
Well if you are looking for some kitting gtfo ship, the Vengeance is not it and do not recommend trying to turn it into one.

W0lf Crendraven
February 2 2013, 08:50:17 AM
Well if you are looking for some kitting gtfo ship, the Vengeance is not it and do not recommend trying to turn it into one.

[Vengeance, mini 100mn legion]
Cross-linked Bolt Array I
Co-Processor II
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core

Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
[empty high slot]
Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

(fit is not optimized, im sure you can probably a better one if you look hard enough)

Should be a lolship to fly if true solo, should be a rapemachine with loki/legion links and hg snakes.

Or:

[Vengeance, mini brawling legion]
Ballistic Control System II
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core

Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Rocket
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Garviel
February 4 2013, 03:39:40 PM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

I try to engage on gates. If it is something that wants to just kite you, tank it till you can jump out.

Well, what I mean is its more vulnerable to getting blobbed than a kiting Harpy

Which is why a proper veng fit has a mwd on it.

Outside FW plexes stuff has plenty of time to jump/warp on top of you


Keep an eye on close range? /o\

OrangeAfroMan
February 4 2013, 08:07:30 PM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

I try to engage on gates. If it is something that wants to just kite you, tank it till you can jump out.

Well, what I mean is its more vulnerable to getting blobbed than a kiting Harpy

Which is why a proper veng fit has a mwd on it.

Outside FW plexes stuff has plenty of time to jump/warp on top of you


Keep an eye on close range? /o\

Not much you can do about it, though. If you're engaged and see ships on short range, you still can't disengage and you should already be heating your stuff so you're basically stuck until one of you dies

Garviel
February 5 2013, 03:50:38 PM
Interesting, might have to try an RAH on a tanky frig.

Only problem with the Venge is that it has to commit to fights, more or less :/

I try to engage on gates. If it is something that wants to just kite you, tank it till you can jump out.

Well, what I mean is its more vulnerable to getting blobbed than a kiting Harpy

Which is why a proper veng fit has a mwd on it.

Outside FW plexes stuff has plenty of time to jump/warp on top of you


Keep an eye on close range? /o\

Not much you can do about it, though. If you're engaged and see ships on short range, you still can't disengage and you should already be heating your stuff so you're basically stuck until one of you dies

Well yes but thats pretty much true even if you have an AB since most things will still be faster than you... I just think using an AB sacrifices too much for way to little gain.

OrangeAfroMan
February 6 2013, 12:34:42 AM
Can't argue there!

Garviel
February 6 2013, 12:03:58 PM
Can't argue there!

That said being able to keep that Enyo out of optimal for a few more seconds is very nice.. But mostly when you die in a veng it is not in a frig 1v1

W0lf Crendraven
February 7 2013, 02:05:44 AM
The ab allows you to kill dual web cruisers/bcs tho, it also is very useful against drakes and other missile ships. Also most times a vengeance will lose versus a enyo, with an ab you stand a way better chance.

Garviel
February 10 2013, 01:12:03 AM
The ab allows you to kill dual web cruisers/bcs tho, it also is very useful against drakes and other missile ships. Also most times a vengeance will lose versus a enyo, with an ab you stand a way better chance.

Vengs take enyos 7/10

prometheus
February 11 2013, 07:04:14 AM
10mn AB AF.. Wat?

Slow? Check.
Gimped fit? Check.
Non-Existent tank? Check.
Awful awful agility? Check.

Seriously, this is a terrible idea.
You're better off with dual prop, single rep, and a nos.
Hell, you don't even need dual prop, just the nos.

You don't need to dual rep and let me tell you why;

Against cruisers, incoming damage is less of a threat than neuts. If you're getting hit, you will be able to tank *most* of it by getting close (you should already be).
Drones get SHREDDED by rockets, and if you're against something with dual webs, you're kinda fucked already (barring the person knows what they're doing).

Against frigates, that dual rep isn't going to really save you. In order to run an effective dual rep, you *should* have an injector. This means you're missing some key tackle.
Gank frigates will blow through you before you know it, and tank frigates will tank you long enough to wear you down. If you are somehow getting the edge, they can always bail (unless they are MWD fit and got caught by an AB fit, lol).

This ship has a cap bonus, a utility high, and plenty of grid.
A nos will keep your rep running long enough to kill the drones that hurt when fighting bigger ships. That same module will keep your tackle going.
With the advent of the AAR, you've got MORE than enough repping power to chew through drones. If you need more of a buffer, fit a plate instead of resist mod.
A well sorted Veng will be able to handle *most* Cruiser-oriented Cruisers, with potential to take on BCs.
AFs are in line with Cruisers, NOT Battlecruisers.



The ab allows you to kill dual web cruisers/bcs tho, it also is very useful against drakes and other missile ships. Also most times a vengeance will lose versus a enyo, with an ab you stand a way better chance.
Vengs take enyos 7/10

Ehhhhhhh...
Most people gank fit their Enyos, and they're going to blitz through those defenses pretty quick once they are in range (they can have lots).

The Vengeance isn't particularly incredible.
It's not fast, or agile. It doesn't have an awe-inspiring tank (without money invested) when being used for actual combat, and it doesn't have insane damage output.
It DOES have range on a lot of things, its cap is awesome, and its tank IS big enough to handle the bigger issues which would kill most frigates. Use these things to your advantage.

At the end of the day, you're a frigate with Destroyer-level hitpoints.
If you are throwing this ship into difficult engagements, it doesn't matter how big your tank is; you're going to get alphaed through it.

And no, this ship doesn't need a buff.
All the AFs have their strengths and weaknesses, but the last few fits/posts seem to have them backwards.

W0lf Crendraven
February 11 2013, 07:57:07 AM
You forgot force multiplications, without links and priate implants your right if you include them, well a non 10mn dualrep vengeance now tanks over 600dps while beeing able to make sure that they cant run (mwd/scram as you now have a 15km scram at one point they will be scrammed but you wont be so you can just mwd close up again), the reason for the 10mn here is to use it as a gtfo option, you still tank pretty much every frigate (or even two or three at once) forever and if you see a blob coming in, you just heat your ab and burn for freedom. The 10mn kiting fit will if supported properly just beat said blob. You can mock it all you want but that venegeance will if flown correctly beat all hacs/cruisers/battlecruisers/frigates/dessies, bar a few specialized fits.

Garviel
February 11 2013, 08:54:17 AM
Ehhhhhhh...
Most people gank fit their Enyos, and they're going to blitz through those defenses pretty quick once they are in range (they can have lots).

The Vengeance isn't particularly incredible.
It's not fast, or agile. It doesn't have an awe-inspiring tank (without money invested) when being used for actual combat, and it doesn't have insane damage output.
It DOES have range on a lot of things, its cap is awesome, and its tank IS big enough to handle the bigger issues which would kill most frigates. Use these things to your advantage.

At the end of the day, you're a frigate with Destroyer-level hitpoints.
If you are throwing this ship into difficult engagements, it doesn't matter how big your tank is; you're going to get alphaed through it.

And no, this ship doesn't need a buff.
All the AFs have their strengths and weaknesses, but the last few fits/posts seem to have them backwards.

Only time i've known a good veng to lose to an enyo its when the fight starts at 0. It is true though that if we are talking about a AB Enyo vs a MWD veng it becomes closer.

I still think the Veng is the strongest brawler AF. But yea a gank AB enyo/wolf can be difficult.. Still think the veng takes it most of the time.

prometheus
February 11 2013, 09:06:05 AM
@wolf
lol, no.

If you're fighting *a blob* you will die to said hacs/cruisers/battlecruisers and potentially destroyers.
You're a frigate, with frigate hit points. I don't care how big your active tank is, it doesn't take a genius to know that you're going to get alphad through your hitpoints.

I'd negrep you more if I could, but I need to *spread it around*.
Seems all you're doing nowadays is using Lords approach which is take a shitty fit and throw links and pirate implants at it.
Those don't make good setups.

As for Veng vs Enyo;
I think that's going to boil down more to the Enyos fit being used as well as the pilots level of skill.
I'd argue that the reason you see more Vengeances winning said fights (aside from a mismatch of say.. ab veng vs mwd enyo), is that the Vengeance is much more forgiving when it comes to brawling.
Its range doesn't matter, its cap doesn't matter, its damage application is perfect, and its tank is usually enough to see it through.

W0lf Crendraven
February 11 2013, 09:29:40 AM
@wolf
lol, no.

If you're fighting *a blob* you will die to said hacs/cruisers/battlecruisers and potentially destroyers.
You're a frigate, with frigate hit points. I don't care how big your active tank is, it doesn't take a genius to know that you're going to get alphad through your hitpoints.



Yes it does, but its pretty pointless trying to tell you why. You actuall have fly it with links/snakes and the like to grasp what makes it so good. And tbh i dont really see the point in discussing it with you, as you seem to be very narrow minded at such things (as seen in your discussions with lords). Trust me the 10mn lml frigates work, and that they can be quite awesome. Yes the vengeance isnt the best at it, but it still is pretty good.

Also if your getting alphaed your doing it wrong!

OrangeAfroMan
February 11 2013, 09:39:36 AM
Prom is right, if you have to use links and pirate implants to make a frig fit viable-ish, then try a different ship/setup.

W0lf Crendraven
February 11 2013, 09:44:08 AM
Prom is right, if you have to use links and pirate implants to make a frig fit viable-ish, then try a different ship/setup.

Normally yes, but as with all oversized ab ships, links are what makes the difference, a 100mn tengu without links/implants is just a shiny bad ship as is a 100mn cynabal or a 100mn loki. They "transform" from crappy lolfits to omgwtfbbq awesome with them tho.

OrangeAfroMan
February 11 2013, 10:06:33 AM
Prom is right, if you have to use links and pirate implants to make a frig fit viable-ish, then try a different ship/setup.

Normally yes, but as with all oversized ab ships, links are what makes the difference, a 100mn tengu without links/implants is just a shiny bad ship as is a 100mn cynabal or a 100mn loki. They "transform" from crappy lolfits to omgwtfbbq awesome with them tho.

100mn Cyna and Loki really aren't good though. 100mn Tengu is/was good because of insane damage projection, tank, and utility mids to go with its ridiculous speed.

Vengeance has none of those things.

W0lf Crendraven
February 11 2013, 10:49:46 AM
The vengeance has speed/range, aswell as beeing scram immune and beeing small enough to speedtank missiles/medium turrets.

Im not saying that its a very good 10mn frigate (hookbill is far better, even tho it has half the ehp less dps and only half the active tank), and the fits here arent very refined (see the contexts they were posted in) but they still are good.

Im not even saying that its a better frigate compared to the usual fits, yet if all vengeance setups are flown with duallinks/snakes the 10mn one would be the one which has the most spread out target spectrum and is all in all the strongest.


Also the 100mn cyna is pretty good. And a unlinked tengu is nearly as slow as a drake, with less ehp, less dps, smae utility, yet if you throw in the links it outperforms it by a huge margin.

OrangeAfroMan
February 11 2013, 11:01:11 AM
You're still not understanding that a frigate that does fuck all DPS at short range that needs to scram a target, lacks a web, has frigate EHP and tank is not the same as a cruiser that could do 500+ DPS to 115km while carrying a 30+km point (tackle outside neut range) and 17+km web, which has battlecruiser EHP and 500+dps tank.

W0lf Crendraven
February 11 2013, 11:08:20 AM
You're still not understanding that a frigate that does fuck all DPS at short range that needs to scram a target, lacks a web, has frigate EHP and tank is not the same as a cruiser that could do 500+ DPS to 115km while carrying a 30+km point (tackle outside neut range) and 17+km web, which has battlecruiser EHP and 500+dps tank.

Yes the dual rep thing isnt very good, its just a dualrep vengeance with 1/3rd the tank but a good gtfo option, i was mainly talking about the lml one.

OrangeAfroMan
February 11 2013, 11:45:27 AM
LML Frigate still does not compare to 100mn Tengu in the ways that make sinking crazy isk into a ship worthwile.

prometheus
February 11 2013, 09:04:47 PM
Your OWN Navy Osprey setups are an example for why this is shit.
Not saying those are good, but they are much better suited than trying to fit this big square peg into the small round hole

Garviel
February 12 2013, 07:44:39 AM
@wolf
lol, no.

If you're fighting *a blob* you will die to said hacs/cruisers/battlecruisers and potentially destroyers.
You're a frigate, with frigate hit points. I don't care how big your active tank is, it doesn't take a genius to know that you're going to get alphad through your hitpoints.

I'd negrep you more if I could, but I need to *spread it around*.
Seems all you're doing nowadays is using Lords approach which is take a shitty fit and throw links and pirate implants at it.
Those don't make good setups.

As for Veng vs Enyo;
I think that's going to boil down more to the Enyos fit being used as well as the pilots level of skill.
I'd argue that the reason you see more Vengeances winning said fights (aside from a mismatch of say.. ab veng vs mwd enyo), is that the Vengeance is much more forgiving when it comes to brawling.
Its range doesn't matter, its cap doesn't matter, its damage application is perfect, and its tank is usually enough to see it through.

Basically yes. The Veng does lose if the Enyo manages to get to 0 right away. But that doesn't happen very often.




Also to all the oversized ab ideas.. Everyone, look at your ship... Is it a tengu? No? THEN DONT OVERSIZE AB IT. (If your fit needs pirate implants and mindlinked loki links to work its fucking shit)

prometheus
February 12 2013, 07:49:12 AM
Neutron+null Enyos hurt mang, jus sayin :P

Garviel
February 12 2013, 08:05:07 AM
Neutron+null Enyos hurt mang, jus sayin :P

Well yes but i don't think null hits hard enough to crack a veng before the enyo dies.. even with a lowly T2 fit the veng does have what 8k ehp and 120 dps repped with heat?

but anyhow i agree with you that the veng can have issues with really ganky ships blasting through the rep.

Edit: We can also agree together that 10mn vengs are shit.. along with most other 10mn things.

W0lf Crendraven
February 12 2013, 08:54:47 AM
Neutron+null Enyos hurt mang, jus sayin :P

Well yes but i don't think null hits hard enough to crack a veng before the enyo dies.. even with a lowly T2 fit the veng does have what 8k ehp and 120 dps repped with heat?

but anyhow i agree with you that the veng can have issues with really ganky ships blasting through the rep.

Edit: We can also agree together that 10mn vengs are shit.. along with most other 10mn things.

Wwait till you see a 10mn hookbill, or a 10mn thrasher or a 10mn hawk.... . Most i agree arent very good (like the vengeance which isnt a good 10mn ship, it still is a good ship if compared to non 10mn frigates), some dont even work at all. But the ones that do are scary!

Just to compare it, the vengeance puts out more dps then a condor, cant be scrammed, has a good active tank, a incredeibly tiny signature (i.e it can speedtank arty thrasher and such, even at 30km) and decent speed (3k/s isnt great but not that bad either). Due to the frigate environement, it can beat all ships faster then it which can project well enough (slicer(retribution), for the rest, they do nearly no damage past 10km and this ship is uncatchable vs a single target (if they can actually get close to you/sligshot you, they need to have a mwd, which can be scrammed off, thats why scram>web, if they have web aswell it comes down to a simple whos faster to see which one can dictate range if you uae a web, with a scram they lose 90% of their speed meaning you always will have range control inside scram range). It pretty much is in no danger of dieing vs any single frigate, you can simply outrange the ships with better ehp/range (coercer). The agility is pretty meaningless if a good pilot is flying the ship. For crusiers and upwards, in a 10km orbit, while scramming them, no cruiser will be able to track you , while your tank/reper/sig mean that drones can be delt with in ease.

The biggest up compared to non 10mn kiting fits, if you land on a opponent on 0 inside a plex you will still be able to pull range!

So if you compare it to a normal rocket fit, you lose nearly half your dps, but get great range. You lose eft tank but get real tank vs most things (rlml caracals for example), you have very good range control and you have are in very little danger of getting blobbed.

Without links, its shit (and if a fit which needs links to work is useless and stupid lies in the eyes of the beholder to judge), with links it can be quite the rapemachine.

Garviel
February 12 2013, 09:19:22 AM
If your t1 frig/dessie needs links/snakes to work its shit.

W0lf Crendraven
February 12 2013, 09:54:00 AM
If your t1 frig/dessie needs links/snakes to work its shit.

no

Meridith
February 12 2013, 01:36:09 PM
Its not shit, just a niche fit for people who seem to enjoy dragging a second account around everywhere with them.

Posted from a boat.

Garviel
February 12 2013, 03:37:12 PM
Its not shit, just a niche fit for people who seem to enjoy dragging a second account around everywhere with them.

Posted from a boat.

It means you either have to stay in one system or lug around an alt for your frigate roam >_>

I stand by shit.

n0th
February 21 2013, 07:33:20 PM
Standard single rep 250dps fit tanks 200dps now with AAR

amazing

Garviel
February 21 2013, 09:12:03 PM
Standard single rep 250dps fit tanks 200dps now with AAR

amazing

Confirming i will never get anything but blobs and kiters in a veng again.

prometheus
February 21 2013, 09:16:28 PM
My Cruors & Dragoons will happily oblige hahaha

Garviel
February 21 2013, 10:14:21 PM
My Cruors & Dragoons will happily oblige hahaha

Dragoon maybe but i'm sure a veng still out tank/ganks a Cruor..

n0th
February 22 2013, 04:55:58 AM
My Cruors & Dragoons will happily oblige hahaha

You changed ingame character or something?

prometheus
February 22 2013, 05:57:36 AM
My Cruors & Dragoons will happily oblige hahaha

You changed ingame character or something?
I have another character now in addition to Prom. People throw ships at me again :o

OrangeAfroMan
February 22 2013, 06:39:09 AM
My Cruors & Dragoons will happily oblige hahaha

You changed ingame character or something?
I have another character now in addition to Prom. People throw ships at me again :o

Isn't it nice?

Badboy K
January 14 2015, 06:46:00 AM
so, how do i counter this setup , solo with a frig:

[Vengeance, double rep Vengeance]
Ballistic Control System II
Coreli A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Coreli A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler
Coreli A-Type 1MN Afterburner
Small Capacitor Booster II,Navy Cap Booster 200

Corpii A-Type Small Nosferatu
Rocket Launcher II,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II,Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Nanobot Accelerator II

http://shrani.si/f/38/8B/IkW3Q/vengeance.jpg

OrangeAfroMan
January 14 2015, 07:03:22 AM
You disengage and lol because its an AB only ship

W0lf Crendraven
January 14 2015, 07:57:56 AM
Unless you arent a 1v1 hero and have a mwd fitted?


You can easily beat that btw, you seem to be doing 1v1s which are prearranged, see what that ship can tank with all mods offline bar the reps and get a capstable kiting ship with a lot of ammo that can beat that ammount, grind out capboosters and then slowly kill it.

Cause im nice i already did that for you. that ship tanks 129dps forever, so a capstable ship thats faster then that vengeance which deals enough dps at range?

[Enyo, New Setup 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Co-Processor II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Cap Recharger II
Faint Warp Disruptor I

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

Capstable, needs 3% implant, keep at 18km and go afk. Obviously dont use for anything else.

Alternatives are the slicer, the garmur, any destroyer, a hawk fitted for capstability and tank.

Ships that are reasonable and not 1v1 fits that can beat that, dramiel (untill he starts shooting drones :/, then it might take forever).

Yankunytjatjara
January 14 2015, 04:38:57 PM
Any mwd/disruptor ship and a lot of time