That Really Good Solo PVP Thread

[rojomojo915]

Does anyone have that saved from SHC or is there anyway to get it exported to here? That was prob one of, if not the best pvp thread out there that had a lot of useful tips.

[Jalif]

probably no :(

[Saman Ayan]

What was the name of the thread? There's a good possibility it's cached by Google.

[Cloud]

[TMA] Flying Nano Shit
www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D39784%26sid%3D9e7fde7ec56e2906 4279a679a0eb076a+&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=encrypted.google.com]Page (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Mgemod8BEggJ:[url) 1[/url]
Page 2 (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:IP0ye_7vVvYJ:scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D1586836%26sid%3D6fa4015eecb8ac 82d93c25f9750eadd3+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=encrypted.google.com)

If thats not the right thread let me know and I'll find the right one.

[Don Pellegrino]

No, it's [TMA] Having fun alone but that one you linked is very good too.

[Cloud]

how to have fun alone?
www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D39567%26sid%3Dc3a7f5dd5316d50e d05a8acfb300d0a3+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=encrypted.google.com]Page (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TB5ddfbq_ugJ:

www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D39567%26start%3D15%26sid%3Dc3a 7f5dd5316d50ed05a8acfb300d0a3+&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=encrypted.google.com]Page (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ysdh14Y_0o4J:Page (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:glWsBbs1Hu4J:[url) 3

Page 4 (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9Im7yXlUHVYJ:scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D39567%26postdays%3D0%26postord er%3Dasc%26start%3D45%26sid%3D22a9dc766edb43567a16 d8350f156a52+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=encrypted.google.com)

Page 5 (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1xb-HiQjQVkJ:scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D1564472%26sid%3D919f0b0adee425 7eb874a7925407c3ac+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=encrypted.google.com)

I believe this is the right thread then.

[Jalif]

n1

[Sudden]

How long does Google's cache last? Might be worthwhile copy/pasting that thread.

[FatFreddy]

[TMA] Flying Nano Shit page 1 dump




Chakrai


So I've had Minmatar cruiser V for ages and want to start flying nanoish cruiser hull stuff, but I'm not sure how I should actually fly it. Do I aim to orbit, keep at a predetermined Murder Range or should I be manually flying?
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Don Pellegrino

You'll die horribly to any non totally shit pilot that knows how to do a proper "slingshot" if you dont manually pilot. Even a scram mega could catch you. You need to watch his speed, his alignment and try to guess what he's trying to do. By slingshot, I mean flying in a direction until, due to your higher speed, you almost catch up to him and then he turns around, overloads AB/MWD and catches you.

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Chakrai

So essentially pay attention to what he's doing and don't be an arsehole?
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Takon Orlani


Manual flying is dangerous business with the new way the interface ignores clicks.

I usually orbited with mwd off once I got point, pulsing it as needed. Always have your camera etc pointed at an escape route so you can just double click or click align and get out.
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Bazman


Set Keep at Range to 100km so that burning away from a blob in an emergency is only one hotkey press away[/quote]
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Tyrus_Tenebros


oh if you're fighting small gang style, keep an eye on the movement of the "other" target.


we were in 2x BCs, being orbited by a slicer. The guy started shooting my wingman, so as he orbited, I drifted out about 10km, just missed a tackle.

The idiot presses orbit on my buddy again, goes for one more loop, and almost literally runs in to me. Needless to say he died in a fire for his idiocy (didn't want his a-type MWD anyways)
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Raz wrote:

Speed, agility, range control, DPS, EHP and sig radius are all inconsequential in the face of blatant disregard for typing letters in the correct[

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Nursultan

Don Pellegrino wrote:
You'll die horribly to any non totally shit pilot that knows how to do a proper "slingshot" if you dont manually pilot. Even a scram mega could catch you. You need to watch his speed, his alignment and try to guess what he's trying to do. By slingshot, I mean flying in a direction until, due to your higher speed, you almost catch up to him and then he turns around, overloads AB/MWD and catches you.


How do you counter this? Hit the brakes?
Also, do you use the orbit command at all or just navigate manually all the time?[/quote]
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Don Pellegrino

I personally don't have any problem with double-clicking in space, but I've heard from quite a few people that some people's client ignores some/most of the double-clicks. I never use the automatic orbit unless I'm in an ares or some tackle inty orbiting a slow ship, because that's extremely easy to counter with a proper slingshot. Manual flight is king.

If you're in a ship can track decently well (like a vaga), you should try to orbit manually, but if you're in a slicer or something that can't track, it's better to try to stay on a "line" to reduce transversal. I personally only use Approach and Keep at range so that the only transversal will be caused by the enemy ship, not by mine.


Quote:
Also, do you use the orbit command at all or just navigate manually all the time?


I don't use any command in a nano cruiser and up. I use Approach and keep at range in nano frigs. I never use Orbit, aka the death trap.

Quote:
How do you counter this? Hit the brakes?


The best way is to react quickly by watching his speed, but if you see the distance dropping quickly, Keep at Range (set it to 50km or more) stops your ship faster than Ctrl-Space does (and is faster than turning the camera around and then double-clicking).

Really, if you're gonna fly nano ships, you need your mouse all the time to click in space, so start using the module shortcuts if you aren't already. The ship commands shortcuts don't save as much time, but still make a significant difference. There really is no reason not to use the shortcuts. It's an easy way to put you ahead of the other people.
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joe space

confirming, orbit is bad for kiting. set it at 99999999999 and use as a gtfo button. it works better than clicking in space if you aren't worried about transversal or running into other targets or staying aligned. as you are almost always, however, worried about these things, aligning good things to align to and manual usually work better.

i set align to my max point range (without heat). i then manually pilot closer until someone tries to sling into me, or more tackle arrive. then i hit keep at range and overheat my point until i am comfortable enough to come in a little more and manual (remembering to cut overheat on the point.)

all that said, you can nano without manually piloting. my old gpu used to cause my computer to crash whenever i left map mode. i was nano'ing in map mode using just celestials, keep at range, and orbit for 6 months (there is no "clicking in space" in map mode, among other reasons why this is not a recommended pvp mode). i wasn't nano'ing well. but i learned to get the most out of the overview.

so thats my transition to talking about the overview. watch speeds. add the speed thing that tells you how fast you are gaining/losing distance on other ships (it takes into account your speed/direction and their speed/direction.) If you are sig taking at all, then transversal is also useful.

another thing that may be too obvious - if you are fighting a blob you should be trying to kill tackle within 150k of the rest of the blob, otherwise they can all warp to you (unless you want them to warp in). check dscan for probes and incoming tackle. see the flying solo thread here for helpful tips on small gang/solo nano'ing.

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Shiodome


wow joe space, you're probably my hero... you literally did the whole shaolin "training with a blindfold thing", i bet you pvp with a bald head wrapped up in an orange bath towel ffs.

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joe space


Shiodome wrote:
wow joe space, you're probably my hero... you literally did the whole shaolin "training with a blindfold thing", i bet you pvp with a bald head wrapped up in an orange bath towel ffs.


pretty much. but instead of that shaolin monk deftly and calmly dispatching a mob of black clad ninjas, imagine him franticly running into things and biting and clawing at any piece of flesh he happens on until his teeth are beaten out of his skull.

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Nursultan

Thanks Don Pellegrino. It would be very interesting to see this done in a real-time video (I watched you last vid but it's too fast to figure out your navigation technique - or am I just retarded?).
I do use some manual piloting, such as approaching while maximising transversal and the slingshot maneuver you had described.
What I can't figure out is how to orbit an MWDing target that is not a slow-ass battleship. I mean, you say your camera points in the direction where you are flying. But how do you watch your target's direction? At what angle do you move relative to their vector once you know it?
Sorry if I sound stupid but that's how I learn, I've been spamming the Tuskers' forums with similar Rifter-related questions for quite some time when I was learning to fly frigs.
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Don Pellegrino


Quote:
What I can't figure out is how to orbit an MWDing target that is not a slow-ass battleship. I mean, you say your camera points in the direction where you are flying. But how do you watch your target's direction? At what angle do you move relative to their vector once you know it?


If the enemy ship can't hit me at the range I'm trying to stay at, I just fly like if I was in a Slicer. If he can hit and I need to keep transversal AND range, it gets a bit tricky. I don't really have any special tricks in that case, I just improvise and try to simulate an Orbit command, but I compensate for the enemy ships movements intelligently. For example, if he starts moving straight at me, I won't press Keep at Range, because my transversal will drop to zero. Instead, I'll just keep manually orbiting and change my angle to be slightly bigger, so that way I'll regain the lost range.

Practice that kind of stuff in a belt, against some fat rock in an Ares or something very fast. Try to make a near perfect orbit, and then switch from a 15k orbit to a 20k one, and back to 15k, etc..

You'll see probably more of that kind of stuff in my first 2 videos than in the last one I've made, btw.

Also, a slightly relevant picture that I made a year ago, it explains how to get the initial tackle on a ship that can toast you in one shot if it manages to track you.
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7290/inty.jpg
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Reed Tiburon

good thread
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Arcuate

Don Pellegrino wrote:

.. I need to keep transversal AND rage, it gets a bit tricky.


The rage is especially important to successful nano flying.

[FatFreddy]

[TMA] Flying Nano Shit page 2/2 dump


[TMA] Flying Nano Shit


Don Pellegrino

Arcuate wrote:
Don Pellegrino wrote:

.. I need to keep transversal AND rage, it gets a bit tricky.


The rage is especially important to successful nano flying.

derp, fixed
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fatyn

Nursultan wrote:


How do you counter this? Hit the brakes?


He'll fly right by.
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Tyrus_Tenebros

Don Pellegrino wrote:
Arcuate wrote:
Don Pellegrino wrote:

.. I need to keep transversal AND rage, it gets a bit tricky.


The rage is especially important to successful nano flying.

derp, fixed

I noticed this and chuckled as well. I knew what you meant and frankly when Nano'ing I am pretty much trying to keep transversal AND raging anyways, so I figured that it worked like that too.
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Raz wrote:
Speed, agility, range control, DPS, EHP and sig radius are all inconsequential in the face of blatant disregard for typing letters in the correct order!
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Shiodome

Seeing as i genuinely think that part of the reason i don't improve much over time in this game is because i don't get angry when it all goes wrong (if it doesn't bother me, where's the motivation to change?), i think rage is indeed the secret sauce for pvp success.
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Kintaana


For the record, can we get a step by step example on how to perform a slingshot? I've heard everywhere about it, just never read anything on exactly how to do it, is it possible during standard orbits when already tackled or only when the nano pilot is approaching? Finally training minmatar and starting Stabber work to train for Vaga.
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podcat

Kintaana wrote:
For the record, can we get a step by step example on how to perform a slingshot? I've heard everywhere about it, just never read anything on exactly how to do it, is it possible during standard orbits when already tackled or only when the nano pilot is approaching? Finally training minmatar and starting Stabber work to train for Vaga.


didnt Don do a writeup here?

basically you can do it at any time. when he orbits you you wait for his orbit to start taking him in towards you (zoom out) and when he does you slam reverse, overheat tackle and mwd and intersect his path. will get them most times. you do the opposite to get away from tackle. you need to be going forward so hes got an eliptical orbit and its easier.
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Kintaana

He did but it was a little more brief than that, or I misread it (at work/long day). Got it now though, thanks podcat.

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Shiodome


there's probably some magic ratio of speeds though, was in an AB rifter yesterday doing (i guess) about 1.2km/s tackled by an ares doing ~5km/s orbiting about 28km out and clearly using the orbit function. no matter how i jinked couldn't get it closer than 14km.

actually that's less about the ratio of speed between the rifter/ares and more about the 'distance' buffer the tackler has on you. still thought i'd mention it.
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Ender Wiggan

Yeah, in a dedicated tackle ceptor with a long point and med shield extender you can relatively safely tackle any ship (except some doozies which are mentioned further down in this post) with the automatic orbit command. Burn in as demonstrated in Don's image then set orbit at 24km, which should settle you about 28km from them. Make sure you have the rig which extends your locking range to match your point range. Even against ships like a Munnin running a shit ton of tracking enhancers you won't be scratched once you settle.

The reason for this (and also the reason why it won't work so well on a vaga or cyna, or rapier/hugginn/loki) is the difference in your relative speeds and the distance buffer you have (as mentioned by shiodome).

You can't jink a well set up tackle ceptor once his auto orbit settles unless you're in the aforementioned ships, where clever overloading will let you line up a shot on him as his orbit goes screwy.

I disagree with Don about manually piloting ceptors when tackling ships in blobs. When you manually change direction your ship sheds speed, and you're bound to fuck it up and change angle too fast at one point, dropping your speed too far and catching a volley from one of the ships in the blob.
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Don Pellegrino


Ender Wiggan wrote:

I disagree with Don about manually piloting ceptors when tackling ships in blobs. When you manually change direction your ship sheds speed, and you're bound to fuck it up and change angle too fast at one point, dropping your speed too far and catching a volley from one of the ships in the blob.


You don't shed more speed by manually pilot than you would by using the orbit button. You actually get to choose how much speed you're trading to turn depending on the angle that you pick. If you use the automatic orbit, it will get you killed sooner or later when the ship you're orbiting suddenly changes direction and/or speed (I used to fly a no Damage Control Ares all the time, so I learned it the hard way) while you only have to blame your own stupidity if you die by manually piloting. Yeah, it takes a bit of practice, but it's an extremely valuable skill to have and it isn't hard at all to not turn >60 degrees at once.

Btw, in my next video (next July or August), there'll be a section dedicated to doing proper slingshots and I already got all the fraps for it due to some faggot called 'brokleg' that likes to fly a 3 Overdrives/2 TE's Slicer with a faction point and Claymore links in Old Man Star. He apparently also has a Rapier alt nearby if he somehow manages to fuckup, so don't fight him.
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Al Simmons


Orbiting command would be a lot better if it didn't sometimes fucking stop and reverse your direction of travel when you turn on a prop mod. What is up with that?
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Don Pellegrino


Al Simmons wrote:
Orbiting command would be a lot better if it didn't sometimes fucking stop and reverse your direction of travel when you turn on a prop mod. What is up with that?


That's because when your top speed becomes higher, your ship can't keep a tight orbit without losing too much speed, so it will compensate by making your orbit wider.

That's why in that image I posted on the first page, I say "set orbit @ 15k" because you'll end up orbiting at 20k in a 5k/s tackle inty.

So when your top speed goes up, the client flies to 20k and THEN starts orbiting.
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Tony O


Don Pellegrino wrote:
Al Simmons wrote:
Orbiting command would be a lot better if it didn't sometimes fucking stop and reverse your direction of travel when you turn on a prop mod. What is up with that?


That's because when your top speed becomes higher, your ship can't keep a tight orbit without losing too much speed, so it will compensate by making your orbit wider.

That's why in that image I posted on the first page, I say "set orbit @ 15k" because you'll end up orbiting at 20k in a 5k/s tackle inty.

So when your top speed goes up, the client flies to 20k and THEN starts orbiting.


:BOOM: "Oh, you wanted to go faster? So sorry about that." Evil or Very Mad

Damn Don, that explanation makes sense in a world full of ignorant/apathetic programmers. It even covers not getting bushwhacked for slowing down. Still feels like a sadistic dev conspiracy intended to punish anybody foolish enough to try to finesse their orbit button orbit speed & range by making manual speed adjustments. "Haha! You fail noob, lrn2dblclk." But it's probably shitty programming rather than clever malevolence.
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[FatFreddy]

how to have fun alone? - thread dump as .htm

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7OL3BE6W

or

http://uploaded.to/file/ysamjbxj

because megaupload is being a derp

could use the chance and compile it in a TMA Solo PVP megathread + sticky

[Don Pellegrino]

Yeah, working on that.

[untilted]

http://assets.talkunafraid.co.uk/shc/vi ... Ff=12.html (http://assets.talkunafraid.co.uk/shc/viewforum.php%3Ff=12.html)

relative complete backup of SHC like it was posted in the MLP-thread