[Devblog] give me monocles or give me death!

[Virtuozzo]

reported by CCP Zulu | 2011.05.27 12:39:08 (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=913) | NEW | Comments (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1517440)
Who hasn't looked at their character and thought, "What this bad boy needs is a monocle?" or "Snakeskin boots, that's where it's at!" Hell, who hasn't looked at their ship and wished it had racing stripes or was full-on chromed. Seriously!

Well, you're probably not getting any of that.

What I'm driving at is that a lot of people want to be able to customize their characters, ships or surroundings to either make themselves stand out or because they like pretty things or maybe they just like playing dress up. I don't know and I'm not one to judge.

The problem with customizability, however, is the amount of time and resources needed to produce unique items and variations. Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated fish processing plant, not the Wonka factory, and we're fresh out of Oompa Loompas to build these incredible things. So we're left with the question of how to give you the customizability and uniqueness you want without simply raising the subscription rate.

Enter virtual goods sales.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/EVE_Online_Incarna_Monocle_WiP_t.jpg

Click image to enlarge.


We want to balance the creation and production of such variations and customizability against the actual demand for it. The best way to do that is by having a direct connection between income of these items bought and how many we produce. To put it extremely bluntly; we will be providing these vanity items through direct sales from in-game.

So how will it work?

There will be a store, and it will have all kinds of stuff for sale: clothes and accessories for your character, custom paint jobs or logo placement on your ships or a fishtank/stripper pole for your Captain's Quarters. You'll browse through the list of items available and, when you're ready to make a purchase, you'll use a new currency called Aurum (AUR).

Where can I get some Aurum?

Aurum is created by breaking up a PLEX. Each PLEX gives you a bunch of Aurum that you can spend in the virtual goods store. If you don't want to spend Aurum on these vanity items, you can always wait for someone else to do so and then buy it off them for ISK. Oh yeah, I should have probably mentioned that earlier. Items bought in the virtual goods store will be transferrable between characters, just like PLEX is today.

My PLEX prices!

If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.

So this thing is vanity items only?

Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way.

So what's the TL;DR?

We're going to start selling vanity items for a new currency called Aurum (which is created from PLEX). We hope you enjoy it but, if you don't, you're in no way forced to take part in it. This will launch within the next couple of months.

More exact details on items for sale, conversion from PLEX to AUR and item pricing will be coming soon.



Enjoy!

CCP Zulu

.. bionic eye ..

[FatFreddy]

Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated raving homosexual processing plant,

not big surprise

[Virtuozzo]

Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated raving homosexual processing plant,

not big surprise

Failheap wordfilter :oops:

[Kirith Kodachi]

Damn I want a Monocle. CURSE YOU CCP!

[Hell No]

Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated raving homosexual processing plant
Dat fucken wordfilter

[Evelgrivion]

Not interested unless I can color my Machariel like Princess Celestia.

[Mynxee]

Ha...how coincidental that this dev blog was published about 10 minutes after my post in the CQ thread (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=77492#p77492)...


Bottom line, Incarna is not optional because by making it so, CCP would risk half-hearted adoption by the community, which could lead to new players being influenced by the actions of respected longer-term players and choosing to opt out as well. In doing so, players would avoid exposure to ads or whatever it is they're going to use to pimp the sales of microtransaction vanity items. You can't really convince people to pay extra $$$ for those cool fashion designer outfits and hats if they're sitting in a spaceship and not staring at their own boring ass in the CQ.

In their blogs, both Seleene and Trebor alluded to the new vanity items being really cool. The lone avatar/CQ first strategy seems like a deliberate choice to set up an environment where the only real "new" content on offer is vanity items. Because after all, an important first step in getting any customer to buy a product is to get them to look at it first. Create desire (even if by force) and the money will soon follow. I don't think CCP is as clueless about this as people like to think they are.

[FatFreddy]

Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated raving homosexual processing plant,

not big surprise

Failheap wordfilter :oops:

really

[sassy b]

So we're left with the question of how to give you the customizability and uniqueness you want without simply raising the subscription rate.User created content, right? :)

lol no, microtransactions:(

[Seleene]

Countdown to merc corps / alliances accepting payment in Aurum starts now...

[Krugerrand]

Not interested unless I can color my Machariel like Princess Celestia.

Tis the only reason I would pay for vanity items ~

[Evelgrivion]

Countdown to merc corps / alliances accepting payment in Aurum starts now...

I insist on the capability to color my ships like My Little Pony characters.

[Phelan Boots]

Looks interesting, but I'm not gonna drop IRL cash on shit, I'll probably pick up a few arms from the market. Do want logos on spaceships!

[Virtuozzo]

Countdown to merc corps / alliances accepting payment in Aurum starts now...

I insist on the capability to color my ships like My Little Pony characters.

IMMERSION BREAKING OMG

[Jaxley]

Countdown to merc corps / alliances accepting payment in Aurum starts now...
Pretty sure Aurum won't be transferable. Not how these kind of currencies work.

Plus you can effectively convert ISK into Aurum via PLEX.

[GiDiYi]

Well, there goes the neighbourhood.

If I can't crossdress, not interested.

[Mynxee]

WTB cock ring for Thorax.

[Evelgrivion]

Countdown to merc corps / alliances accepting payment in Aurum starts now...

I insist on the capability to color my ships like My Little Pony characters.

IMMERSION BREAKING OMG

http://i.imgur.com/KNQHO.png

You shall not stop me from repainting my Machariel as I see fit! ;)

[Intigo]

more ways for CCP to milk the cash cow

jesus :3

[Lumy]

more ways for CCP to milk the cash cow

jesus :3
C'mon man. It's not like those server blades or dev salaries come for free.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

I don't care, I got ISK for a thousand monocles.

[Max Teranous]

So this thing is vanity items only?

Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy.

Look at dat slippery slope !

Max 8-)

[Lana Torrin]

http://breaaire.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/71b0552522c7111a5d5b8f47bf096549.png
[center:3omcixkk]And so it begins[/center:3omcixkk]

[Tellenta]

On the plus side if I do lose my mind and decide to do some microtransactionizing I can buy a plex with isk and convert it there-by avoiding the negative side effect of me wanting to kill myself for spending my own real money on a new dress for my character.

[Malcanis]

Hello Kitty Kestrel or GTFO

[Raivi]

Countdown to merc corps / alliances accepting payment in Aurum starts now...

Our Taylor Swift themed Tengus will blot out the sun!

[Seleene]

So this thing is vanity items only?

Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy.

Look at dat slippery slope !

Max 8-)

The CSM was solid on the fact that the day we see shit like WoT gold ammo or anything non-vanity that it was a deal breaker. Everyone we spoke with had gotten the message about VANITY ITEMS ONLY. I can't say what CCP will do 5 years from now, but the current management seems to get it.

[Lallante]

I've never understood why, for example, painting your ship bright pink and covering it in a light fur, for example, is considered "immersion breaking". Obviously if you wanted to do such a thing you are a darkly twisted devient, possible sociopathic in intent, but how is that out of keeping with eve?

To put it another way - if people are fucked up IRL and want stupid shit in Eve, why cant their eve RPd persona be fucked up and want stupid shit in eve?

Basically I think the RL future will see fluffy pink spaceships - hell, we have cars like that now.+

[Lana Torrin]

The CSM was solid on the fact that the day we see shit like WoT gold ammo or anything non-vanity that it was a deal breaker. Everyone we spoke with had gotten that this was what we wanted and was kind enough to not say anything bad to our faces. I can't say what CCP will do 5 months from now, but we can all guess that it will be to just ignore the last CSM and try to butter up this one instead, or make them irrelevant. Management did a really good job at pulling the wool over our eyes.

Fixed your post.

[sassy b]

also wtf is with this dude's metrosexual goth cowboy hairdresser outfit?
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/EVE_Online_Incarna_Monocle_WiP_t.jpg
That's the image they choose to hype their RL money clothes-shop???
I just... the... but.. wat...

[indeterminacy]

when do you think CCP will find time to FUCKING NERF SUPERS already.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Basically I think the RL future will see fluffy pink spaceships - hell, we have cars like that now.+
I thought everyone knew that pink and fluffy is the mating signal of spacewhales... And you _DON'T_ want to be open in that position.

[Lallante]

On the plus side if I do lose my mind and decide to do some microtransactionizing I can buy a plex with isk and convert it there-by avoiding the negative side effect of me wanting to kill myself for spending my own real money on a new dress for my character.
Or you could just buy the vanity item for isk directly, they are tradeable.

[Evelgrivion]

when do you think CCP will find time to FUCKING NERF SUPERS already.

Probably by the winter expansion. In the meantime, it looks like they desperately need to raise some capital. Why else prioritize the development of such man-hour intensive features?

[Rudolf Miller]

Came in expecting much more rage

Found people excited about colouring their ships pink.

Left disappoint with FHC

[Seleene]

AFAIK, ship customization will happen but it's still a ways off. The CSM wants golden Scorpions and shit too, but they are going to test the waters with skirts and trench coats first.




The CSM was solid on the fact that the day we see shit like WoT gold ammo or anything non-vanity that it was a deal breaker. Everyone we spoke with had gotten that this was what we wanted and was kind enough to not say anything bad to our faces. I can't say what CCP will do 5 months from now, but we can all guess that it will be to just ignore the last CSM and try to butter up this one instead, or make them irrelevant. Management did a really good job at pulling the wool over our eyes.

Fixed your post.

If you want to believe such things that's fine. Despite all of the "it went well" coming out of the CSM, that doesnt' mean it's still not made up of a bunch of cynical bastards. Bitter it up all ya want, but the World of Tanks analogy was used over and over and over and over as the standard that we do not want to see EVE cross over to. CCP got that message and you aren't going to see them change over to something else anytime soon, if ever. They can use DUST and WoD for that shit.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Came in expecting much more rage

Found people excited about colouring their ships pink.

Left disappoint with FHC
Like an old woman with a dry vagina being bitter at the nubile girls having fun.

[Max Teranous]

My PLEX prices!

If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.


Actually this part interests me. The Plex/Aurum/Isk dynamic will be a new source of market economics and manipulation which should be interesting to see. One of the big things i suppose is will CCP allow the Plex to Aurum conversion to work both ways? The final part is basically saying they'll be changing this conversion rate in order to stop the Plex/isk exchange rate from going nuts, but it'll also cause issues with the player base (i got 100 aurum with my $$ last week, i could get 150 this week for the same $$, waaa waaa etc) This'll take some serious economic modelling to get right based on expected demand, which will be damn hard to do IMO. In the short term Plex Isk prices will seriously spike.

Max 8-)

P.S. Will need a fucking foreign exchange rate calculator to follow the $$/Plex/Aurum/Isk rates to get this right.

[Ab Tallen]

There will be a store, and it will have all kinds of stuff for sale: clothes and accessories for your character, custom paint jobs or logo placement on your ships

Hasn't there been talk about how to make people less averse to bring their ships into a situation where they might lose them? Selling personalization for ships seems slightly counterproductive in that regard.

(How about custom wrecks that explode IN YOUR FACE when you try to salvage them?)

[Alistair]

I don't care, I got ISK for a thousand monocles.

My sentiments exactly.

Apart from predictable :bittervet:, we all knew this was coming, in almost exactly this form. $$$ for Looks.

And as long as it stays that way, just looks not in-game-advantages, it's 100% fine and dandy.

Better still, CCP should seed some small % of vanity tripe as drops from NPC's.

End of the day, those who don't want to play Subscription + Microtransaction can skip the whole Dollydressup shebang.

Those who just don't want to pay real money can do what many do now.....pay for it is isk, via PLEX purchases, and still never pay a penny of real cash on EVE.

If we were going to have it shafted upon us, this is really the best way to do it. Looks only, and available to anyone with enough isk to buy a PLEX to convert to Assholum Bucks.

Personally, I have more than enough isk to buy myself a sexy new Monocle, to support my arrogant Amarrian Dickwad good looks.

[Kenpachi]

Came in expecting much more rage

Found people disappointed about not being able to colouring their ships pink.

Left disappoint with FHC

FYP :psyduck:

[Phatstabley]

How much will engine trails cost?

[Max Teranous]

The CSM was solid on the fact that the day we see shit like WoT gold ammo or anything non-vanity that it was a deal breaker. Everyone we spoke with had gotten the message about VANITY ITEMS ONLY. I can't say what CCP will do 5 years from now, but the current management seems to get it.

I'm sure you were, but if that was clear to you and the bosses why in the dev blog did Zulu say they'll be revising that strategy down the line? Far easier to answer the question with "Vanity items only. Full stop." if that is actually the case. You only add the strategy revision bit if you're actually thinking about, you know revising the strategy !

Max 8-)

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Actually this part interests me. The Plex/Aurum/Isk dynamic will be a new source of market economics and manipulation which should be interesting to see. One of the big things i suppose is will CCP allow the Plex to Aurum conversion to work both ways? The final part is basically saying they'll be changing this conversion rate in order to stop the Plex/isk exchange rate from going nuts, but it'll also cause issues with the player base (i got 100 aurum with my $$ last week, i could get 150 this week for the same $$, waaa waaa etc) This'll take some serious economic modelling to get right based on expected demand, which will be damn hard to do IMO. In the short term Plex Isk prices will seriously spike.

Max 8-)

P.S. Will need a fucking forgeign exchange rate calculator to follow the $$/Plex/Aurum/Isk rates to get this right.
AUR -> PLEX won't work.
AUR -> MONOCLE -> ISK will work.
AUR -> PLAYER trade will work.

PLEX -> AUR conversion ratio might, or might not, be changed to keep the PLEX market healthy, CPP dodged my question regarding this.

[Seleene]

The CSM was solid on the fact that the day we see shit like WoT gold ammo or anything non-vanity that it was a deal breaker. Everyone we spoke with had gotten the message about VANITY ITEMS ONLY. I can't say what CCP will do 5 years from now, but the current management seems to get it.

I'm sure you were, but if that was clear to you and the bosses why in the dev blog did Zulu say they'll be revising that strategy down the line? Far easier to answer the question with "Vanity items only. Full stop." if that is actually the case. You only add the strategy revision bit if you're actually thinking about, you know revising the strategy !

Max 8-)

Yeah, we're going to push for a solid clarification on that issue asap. I dunno why Zulu left it so seemingly open ended in the dev blog as his attitude at the summit was pretty clear. Cue tinfoil I guess. :popcorn: :D

[Tellenta]

Came in expecting much more rage

Found people excited about colouring their ships pink.

Left disappoint with FHC

I've let MLP in to my life, I no longer rage.

[Seleene]

Ah here we go:

CCP Zinfandel (Marketing duder) says:


Aurum can be handed to another player just like ISK.

:guinness:

[Tarminic]

At first I was surprised that they're letting MT-based character/ship customizations onto the market. But thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense and will also make the playerbase as a whole pay more attention to Incarna in general.

[Seleene]

On Ship Customization:

CCP Hammer says:


We haven't decided exactly what we will charge for paint jobs or what the exact mechanics will be. One thing is for sure if it's too expensive no one will buy it so it has to be priced fairly. My main concern is that we keep the "perpetual machine" intact. By that I mean you should still have to obtain materials and build your ship and use that to claim better space with better materials to build better ships. So while I can't say with certainty if you will purchase an unlimited "license" for a certain paint job or if you will purchase consumable "nano paint" I can say that we're going to do everything we can to make the pricing fair and keep gameplay intact.

[Ampoliros]

'Aurum' is a really stupid name, i bet they put five whole minutes into that one

but so long as it's just fancy hats and spaceship skins, who cares

[Seleene]

Aurum = the Latin word for Gold afaik.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Considering how the items are possible to haul (or in pod) and get destroyed when lost, I suspect one will need to have a set of items for every location / clone.

So they might be priced low and people will buy bulk some cloths at their med clone station and automatically equip a set of cloths / monocles after every podding.

[Malcanis]

also wtf is with this dude's metrosexual goth cowboy hairdresser outfit?
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/EVE_Online_Incarna_Monocle_WiP_t.jpg
That's the image they choose to hype their RL money clothes-shop???
I just... the... but.. wat...

I can only assume that someone at CCP is a fan of Preacher

[Sponk]

Dislike Aurum. Needs moar scifi.

[SokoleOko]

Am I the only one that think loosing clothes/accesories after being podded is really retarded? Like we don't have enough hassle with implants which actually do have impact on the gameplay?

At least give us some "working clothes" to wear for flying as opposed to "shinies" weared just in between of CTA's.

"Sorry, FC, this HID is a no go tonight, I can't jumpclone into my working outfit and I won't risk my monocle".

[Ampoliros]

Aurum = the Latin word for Gold afaik.

Yeah, it is. Not very imaginative, and not very scifi, but then again i suppose i'm happy they're not covering up everything in thirty layers of bs either.

[Ephemeral]

That didn't take long. Not surprising, but it didn't take long. Funny how every other MMORPG out there has that sort of customisation as a basic service with some special costume packs (wedding dresses, hallowe'en packs etc) as u-transactions.

[Jade Constantine]

I'm selling my dreadnaughts so I can afford silk kimono dresses for Jade.

[Zoidberg]

Ha...how coincidental that this dev blog was published about 10 minutes after my post in the CQ thread (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=77492#p77492)...


Bottom line, Incarna is not optional because by making it so, CCP would risk half-hearted adoption by the community, which could lead to new players being influenced by the actions of respected longer-term players and choosing to opt out as well. In doing so, players would avoid exposure to ads or whatever it is they're going to use to pimp the sales of microtransaction vanity items. You can't really convince people to pay extra $$$ for those cool fashion designer outfits and hats if they're sitting in a spaceship and not staring at their own boring ass in the CQ.

In their blogs, both Seleene and Trebor alluded to the new vanity items being really cool. The lone avatar/CQ first strategy seems like a deliberate choice to set up an environment where the only real "new" content on offer is vanity items. Because after all, an important first step in getting any customer to buy a product is to get them to look at it first. Create desire (even if by force) and the money will soon follow. I don't think CCP is as clueless about this as people like to think they are.
That's an interesting post as I never was quite cynical enough to think of Incarna in those terms. Can it truly be assumed that at least the early stages of Incarna are just a ploy to get people to buy Aurum, and nothing more? I've got to wonder how much work is even being done to give Incarna actual gameplay at this point.

[Redclaws]

Whats the actual difference between aurum and isk then? I use isk to buy a plex and transform that to aurum...

Just come out and say it CCP: Eve is a microtransaction game! Quit fucking around with making it kind of fuzzy.
We all know loads of players just sell PLEX to buy moms and shit.

The internet used to be equal for everybody: a rich metalindustry CEO was no better than a 16 year old kid in a basement. These days the rich guys get to "win" in virtual space as well just because they got more cash willing to spend.

[Evelgrivion]

I really can't emphasize this enough. (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1517440&page=4#120)


I'm fine with microtransactions for vanity items like these. They're an acceptable way to improve revenues, since it makes people feel better about what they've got without compromising the integrity of the game and its economy. However, because this is important, it cannot be stressed enough:

If Mictro-transactions become a requirement for non-vanity items in any way, shape, or form, you're ramming every ounce of credibility you have through the shredder. Don't go back on your promise not to introduce them. (http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2010/CSM_CCP_Meetings_11-12_10_2010.pdf)


CCP is open to diversifying its business model, and exploring virtual goods is neither evil nor bad. However the idea of oly the rich kids being the best does not sit well with CCP and that situation will be prevented through any means necessary.

CSM5 and CSM6 have voiced strong and consistent disapproval of non-vanity, game affecting micro-transactions in each meeting they were discussed. The vocal consensus of people who play eve today do not look to approve the idea of microtransactions buying a tangible advantage in game.

[Don Pellegrino]

Will Aurum be convertible back to PLEX?
Only in the sense that you can buy stuff for Aurum and sell them on the market for Isk, then buy Plex with the Isk.
Very good



The main question here is: will i be able to take your monocle if i pod you? :)
No, clothing is destroyed when you get podded, but if you had a stack on monocle's in your cargo hold they will drop like normal.
Disappointing

[Skyly]

How much will engine trails cost?

[Virtuozzo]

One Aurum, two Aura.

Facepalm?

[Raimo]

AUR -> PLEX won't work.


But AUR -> MONOCLE -> ISK -> PLEX will

Or AUR -> ISK of another player -> PLEX

Right?

[Mynxee]

Ha...how coincidental that this dev blog was published about 10 minutes after my post in the CQ thread (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=77492#p77492)...


Bottom line, Incarna is not optional because by making it so, CCP would risk half-hearted adoption by the community, which could lead to new players being influenced by the actions of respected longer-term players and choosing to opt out as well. In doing so, players would avoid exposure to ads or whatever it is they're going to use to pimp the sales of microtransaction vanity items. You can't really convince people to pay extra $$$ for those cool fashion designer outfits and hats if they're sitting in a spaceship and not staring at their own boring ass in the CQ.

In their blogs, both Seleene and Trebor alluded to the new vanity items being really cool. The lone avatar/CQ first strategy seems like a deliberate choice to set up an environment where the only real "new" content on offer is vanity items. Because after all, an important first step in getting any customer to buy a product is to get them to look at it first. Create desire (even if by force) and the money will soon follow. I don't think CCP is as clueless about this as people like to think they are.
That's an interesting post as I never was quite cynical enough to think of Incarna in those terms. Can it truly be assumed that at least the early stages of Incarna are just a ploy to get people to buy Aurum, and nothing more? I've got to wonder how much work is even being done to give Incarna actual gameplay at this point.

Hi Zoid :)

I am not being cynical, just realistic. Aurum is simply a mechanism to allow vanity item purchases at prices which scale in relation to other things in the universe. PLEX are too valuable to use directly for individual paint jobs or outfits, or even a bundled collection of outfits...not when you can buy whole fitted ships for the equivalent cost of a PLEX. AUR is something like the uPLEX (sorry, cba to make the actual special character) that Trebor suggested at CSM5 summit(s).

I'm pretty sure CCP already pretty much stated in a dev blog or associated comments thread that Incarna 1.0 will not have gameplay (at least, not as we define it).

[Jade Constantine]

[quote]Will Aurum be convertible back to PLEX?
Only in the sense that you can buy stuff for Aurum and sell them on the market for Isk, then buy Plex with the Isk.
Very good



The main question here is: will i be able to take your monocle if i pod you? :)
No, clothing is destroyed when you get podded, but if you had a stack on monocle's in your cargo hold they will drop like normal.
Disappointing[/quote:3e2rbxqo]

Would have to be a pretty serious dress to survive being hit with a nuclear tipped projectile slug :)

[Don Pellegrino]

As an RP'er, I expected you to know that capsuleers are naked in their pod.

I am disappoint, Jade. :P

[Tarminic]

Well the dress is probably in a closet right next to the pod. We're lucky we get to keep them when they eject. New pods have a build-in luggage compartment apparently. :D

[Brimborium]

WTB Rolled-Tungsten Chastity Belt,Body Armor, and a Black Paintjob, for the not-yet released Tornado. :slaver:

To be honest, i would rather like to have facial expressions on my F-keys, so instead of ship spinning, i could "cheek-spin" in stations :facepalm:

[Alistair]

This was interesting:



CCP Zinfandel

Posted - 2011.05.27 13:33:00 - [62] - QuoteReport

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One kind of thing that did not make it in to this test build is a re-skin of a current, common ship. It is not enhanced in any way except cosmetic.

New Sexy Maller Hull, First Microtransaction-Purchased Hull?

That'll be a loltastci future, CCP upgrades all the hulls.....but instead of calling it a Graphics Update, it's now only buyable in the MT-Shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6iJbrIW ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6iJbrIWK2U&feature=player_embedded)

[The Djego]

Might be interested in some more classic minimatar tattoos and proper cloth but I guess this is something I will have to wait a long time to come.

Not really feeling like spending money to fix CCPs terrible jungle camo on my navy megas, at least not until they get around and put them back into a useful shape again.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

AUR -> PLEX won't work.


But AUR -> MONOCLE -> ISK -> PLEX will

Or AUR -> ISK of another player -> PLEX

Right?
Did you just quote my post, remove the parts you were interested in and then ask for clarification regarding those exact things you unquoted from my post?...

Also to bittervets above; they never promised no microtransactions at all... only that they would be limited to stuff that didn't affect gameplay mechanics.

[Rudolf Miller]

Came in expecting much more rage

Found people excited about colouring their ships pink.

Left disappoint with FHC

I've let MLP in to my life, I no longer rage.

Was more referencing the lack of MT bawwww-ing.. but there is some now.

I don't give a damn if you want pink ships.. got knows how hilarious a two tone pink stabber would be with engine trails

[Melichor]

So I take it this is where Gallente females will get their transparent clothing back...I knew there had to be a Gallente buff of some sort this year

[Rakshasa The Cat]

As an RP'er, I expected you to know that capsuleers are naked in their pod.

I am disappoint, Jade. :P
And the items can be destroyed if you have them in the luggage compartment of your pod. (So that you can wear them when you dock at some random station)

[Jade Constantine]

As an RP'er, I expected you to know that capsuleers are naked in their pod.
I am disappoint, Jade. :P

You see, the pod is a little spaceship - inside the pod there is the goo chamber (that you float around naked in) but outside that chamber (and inside the capsule proper) you have a little antechamber where you keep your gear and personal weaponry next to a shower and washroom so you can get the pod-goo out of your hair before swanning around the ship.

All these things and more I learned at eve-backstage :)

[spiralJunkie]

microtransactions?

I need a slippery slope image macro

[RoemySchneider]

My PLEX prices!

If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.

mhmm.... because CCP's track record regarding PLEX/GTC prices has been nothing but a success and indicates lots of present tools except that new one? because CCP have always been fine-tuning stuff such as invention rates, 'new' insurance payout (which supposedly is something 'dynamic') e.a.?

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/111/343/original/HahahaNO.jpg

overnight, the PLEX market will have to cover trillions worth of new vanity items. they're destructible so... nothing but a sink - and PLEX not only have to cover for new guys getting them but also old guys who are losing them.

i mean sure... it'll be great that we can finance an entire mothership with a single GTC soon™. alas eve will be a lot less interesting when half the customers will have quit, supercaps-online is (still) in full effect and even new richkidsonlsd will just buy supercap-ready chars off all those quitters.

also, who here can imagine that CCP will ever tweak the aurum prices? imagine: "hummmm.... PLEX have just breached the 1bil threshold... maybe we should lower the prices on the top10 vanity items... but we've already lost 10% of our customers; we need the £$€ to make more spaceship-unrelated stuff... let's make them more expensive instead so they're bought slightly less often"
hint: PLEX have already gone from 350mil to 700mil

<yes, a lil bit of dramatiziation going on there with the supercaps, but that will be the direction>

TL;DR
fuck you ccp, fuck you csm. we discussed this during the first microtransaction speculations: connecting aurum to PLEX and isk is a fucking bad idea. get off your lazy arses and bill players separately & introduce a 'second' kind of GTC - you've sold at least three different kinds of GTC in the past, you can do it again. tschaka.

and let's face it... "we are monitoring" = "we're doing shit about anything"

[Tarminic]

Now that is some proper bitter right there. I enjoyed the dash of conspiracy theory thrown in there with insurance payouts.

[RoemySchneider]

happy to oblige :emo:

allow me to post a recognizeable word so i can search for this post in one-year's-time.... gurkenschrapnel

[teds]

so i dont really care about monocles, but does this mean ill need more or less isk to sub my acc's?

[Don Pellegrino]

What they will do:

$$$ -> PLEX -> Aurum -> vanity items
and
vanity items -> ISK (by selling on the market) -> whatever (including PLEX)


What they should do instead:

$$$ -> Aurum -> Vanity items
and
vanity items -> ISK (by selling on the market) -> whatever (including PLEX)

JUST SKIP THE PLEX STEP, it seems useless to me and pretty dangerous because if it goes too high some people will have to cancel an alt or two and if they tweak anything about Plex there will be rage from the people that get screwed.

Or don't, my stack of PLEX is now worth a lot more. It gained 1b of value in the last hour.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

so i dont really care about monocles, but does this mean ill need more or less isk to sub my acc's?
More.

[teds]

so i dont really care about monocles, but does this mean ill need more or less isk to sub my acc's?
More.

oh

fuck monocles

[Lorkin Desal]

(How about custom wrecks that explode IN YOUR FACE when you try to salvage them?)

1000x this. I'll teach you to salvage my wreck.

[Bannedwagon]

Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated raving homosexual processing plant
Quoting for future reference.

[Chakrai]

I call it now, engine trails to be added for Aurums.

[Mavolio]

I call it now, engine trails to be added for Aurums.

and longer skill queue, pos module on line queue, better ui and old jump affect back.

[Zoidberg]

I'm pretty sure CCP already pretty much stated in a dev blog or associated comments thread that Incarna 1.0 will not have gameplay (at least, not as we define it).
Yeah, but your post made me start to wonder if even the Winter expansion will have anything of Incarna-related substance. What's the point when you can add in nothing but fluff content, while making large sums from EVE Online's version of TF2 hats?

[Lancehot]

a monocle is meaningless without a top hat

[Mynxee]

I'm pretty sure CCP already pretty much stated in a dev blog or associated comments thread that Incarna 1.0 will not have gameplay (at least, not as we define it).
Yeah, but your post made me start to wonder if even the Winter expansion will have anything of Incarna-related substance. What's the point when you can add in nothing but fluff content, while making large sums from EVE Online's version of TF2 hats?

Perhaps the Minutes from the recently concluded Summit will answer that question. Unless it's all NDA'd. :roll: Also, given CCP's current approach, after the Incarna "expansion" comes out, I wonder if there will be an actual winter expansion or simply a series of releases that come out when "ready". Maybe the Minutes will answer that question too.

[dr axler]

I wish someone would make an eve clone...

I mean just imagine eve without all the :psyccp:

[Nax]

I'm pretty sure CCP already pretty much stated in a dev blog or associated comments thread that Incarna 1.0 will not have gameplay (at least, not as we define it).
Do you have any sense that you can share for whether the lack of gameplay was due to design or implementation? Essentially did they never really get around to figuring out what gameplay they wanted put into Incarna or did they have a good design and never got around to any of it because coding is hard and time is short?

[zangorus]

I just need a cigar and that monocle thing and im good to go

[Evelgrivion]

I call it now, engine trails to be added for Aurums.

and longer skill queue, pos module on line queue, better ui and old jump affect back.

Fuck everything about this, because I can see them trying to fix deficiencies in game design with micro-transactions. :x

[Haffrage]

I...

I...

I'm so happy, I can have metal plates on my face again :companioncube:

I can't wait to do a 4 hour reactivation for this shit!

[Beardponderer]

That is some beautiful bitter right there roemy

[Mynxee]

I'm pretty sure CCP already pretty much stated in a dev blog or associated comments thread that Incarna 1.0 will not have gameplay (at least, not as we define it).
Do you have any sense that you can share for whether the lack of gameplay was due to design or implementation? Essentially did they never really get around to figuring out what gameplay they wanted put into Incarna or did they have a good design and never got around to any of it because coding is hard and time is short?

Considering the Incarna discussions back in October (http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2010/CSM_CCP_Meetings_11-12_10_2010.pdf) and all the NDA'd stuff in the December minutes, my sense then was that it just hadn't been given much (if any) thought yet beyond pie-in-the-sky "oooh sounds cool!" imaginings. Now 7 months on, not that much time has passed in which to really think up, design, build assets for, and code gameplay -- esp. since from the sounds of things it appears that Incarna resources have their hands full just getting shit to work in its most basic form, building in the microtransactions support, and creating the initial items that will be on offer. I have a feeling that gameplay will only begin to emerge in future releases where multiple avatars can coexist and interact in the environment. But who knows. CCP likes to spring surprises on players. Maybe they've made some gameplay for Incarna 1.0 that is seriously cool/fun which a lone avatar can do while confined to quarters. :)

[randomToon]

We all knew that this would happen, but I'll rage anyway as it's a matter of principle.

I've got three words for CCP:
[spoiler:2leajik9][center:2leajik9]GO
FUCK
YOURSELVES![/center:2leajik9][/spoiler:2leajik9]

[Trebor Daehdoow]

Well the dress is probably in a closet right next to the pod. We're lucky we get to keep them when they eject. New pods have a build-in luggage compartment apparently. :D
It's an overhead compartment, actually.

I argued strongly that clothes should be non-destructible (ie: you buy the right to have the nanobots in the closet manufacture it, or the clone bay install it in the case of body mods).

My reasoning was:

1) It'll be a royal pain in the ass to rebuy your outfit every time you get podded, so players who are prone to being podded (ie: pvp'ers) will tend not to buy the special clothes -- constantly worrying about whether or not you're undocking while wearing your Pimp Hat is a problem we just don't need to have.

2) You can realistically charge more for non-destructible items.

So you sell more to the people whose clothes would get blown up, and get more from the ones who wouldn't need to rebuy.

This thinking was heavily influenced by the disgusting spectacle of both Seleene and Mittens openly drooling over some sample items -- I had the misfortune of being between the two of them. :facepalm:

[Seleene]

I argued strongly that clothes should be non-destructible (ie: you buy the right to have the nanobots in the closet manufacture it, or the clone bay install it in the case of body mods).

I agree on this point.


This thinking was heavily influenced by the disgusting spectacle of both Seleene and Mittens openly drooling over some sample items -- I had the misfortune of being between the two of them. :facepalm:

Dude, I just want my space dollie to be all she can be, okay? Mittens wants to buy half the stuff for his RL wardrobe. :)

[gert]

So on top of people whining they are in the wrong jumpclone (oww noes, my +5s) we also get people whining they are in the wrong dress (oww noes, my fall 2011 limited edition dress)?

Edit: predicting it now: most sought after item (and most expensive item): nipples

[Cerbus]

this post is gay.

[Android]

2) You can realistically charge more for non-destructible items.


This.

Not only that, but humans are generally dumb enough to let you have your cake and eat it too on the matter.

People impulse buying non-destructible items for more money is going to a) make them feel like they are getting more "value" from it, and b) get CCP more money when they get bored with their latest impulse bought pimp hat after a week and buy another one.

Offer a good deal for people who actually take advantage of a good deal and you will rake in the money on 90% of everyone else who pay for good deals but don't end up using more than a small fraction of what they've paid for. Healthclub membership for a whole year at a nice discount? Sign me up!

[randomToon]

Dude, I just want my space dollie to be all she can be, okay? Mittens wants to buy half the stuff for his RL wardrobe. :)

No not "okay".

Such fanboish attitude does nothing to stop the tide of :awsome:

Making sure that your space doll is pretty - is that what your "Iterations" are really about?

[Cerbus]

non-destructable items

what crack are you guys smoking.

[Herschel Yamamoto]

this post is gay.

You're just bitter they didn't call them uPlex.

[Alistair]

If I just mail my credit card to CCP, will they send me a little plastic action-figure of my dude, dressed in his Space-Doll finest?

[Cerbus]

[quote="t'amber":hxal2iht]this post is gay.

You're just bitter they didn't call them uPlex.[/quote:hxal2iht]

:cut:

[Bartholomeus Crane]

Not exactly the bionic eye I was thinking about, but if the monocle comes with a top hat, I might look into that.

In general, we knew this was going on, but I don't like seeing the open ended part of the dev blog. Instead of a clear and resounding "No, this is it.", it leaves the door open for all kinds of shenanigans later on. Nope, don't like the sound of that at all.

[Lallante]

Not exactly the bionic eye I was thinking about, but if the monocle comes with a top hat, I might look into that.

In general, we knew this was going on, but I don't like seeing the open ended part of the dev blog. Instead of a clear and resounding "No, this is it.", it leaves the door open for all kinds of shenanigans later on. Nope, don't like the sound of that at all.

Oh fuck off.

[Raz]

Given that it was inevitable for CCP to introduce vanity microtransactions, I don't think we were going to get a better system than the one in this dev blog. I think it's good that all vanity microtransaction items will still be transferable through all the existing in-game means.

I'm also not prepared to begrudge CCP their desire to make money as a company, since that's like raging about the sun coming up (which we do). And I earnestly believe that they're collectively committed to the game enough that player condemnation isn't necessary to convince them that moving to a "Gold Ammo" or similar non-vanity model is a bad idea. But continually knocking that into their heads is a good thing.

I'm not surprised by all the rage and :tinfoil:, but I think it's unrealistic and alarmist.

[Raz]

Some Dr. EyjoG responses in the eve-o comment thread about the economic impact.



Aurum is an elegant solution by CCP to two problems:

1. there are too many unredeemed PLEX in the universe (accountants complain)
2. there is too much stockpiled ISK (economist complains)

Making Aurum only available from PLEX directly addresses problem #1.

Problem #2 means that if new Incarna items were sold through fixed price NPC sell orders (think POS fuel before Tyrannis), the universe would quickly be flooded with them, devaluing Incarna. Selling them for fixed prices in Aurum means that the items' prices FLOAT in isk, since that exchange rate will vary with PLEX pricing. The greater the rush to buy Incarna items, the more expensive they become. So stockpiled isk has a lesser effect on Incarna items than it would otherwise.

The immediate side effect of making PLEX more expensive also means that buying isk via RMT is less competitive with buying isk legitimately via GTC sales. I'm sure this was a 'total accident', right CCP? :)

Well done.

Could we get a comment from CCP as to the Eve economist's thoughts on Aurum? It is a new currency, after all.

Having another currency for Incarna (Aurum (AUR)) helps a lot in terms of managing the overall money supply in EVE and simply gives us more tools to react to any imbalance situation that might come up over the years. More currencies are also simply just more fun and the fact that vanity items can be sold on the secondary market by players themselves opens up a lot of trading opportunities. Fun times ahead. =D


[quote="Master Tron":18ae5l8l]So let me make myself clear.
2 years ago PLEX price was around 200mil isk, now the index of the plex has gone up by 50% so now we are looking price in market 400mil isk.
Other way to get plex is with RL money, we convert GTC to PLEX. This will be as it is and it will not have any change. If now we take AUR in what is made from PLEX. PLEX price will go up from 400mil to 600mil isk and in next 2 years the price will go even more up... about half of the users in this game use PLEX to play this game. Meaning isk you make and buy PLEX keeps your users in this game (key: "you don't need to pay any RL money to play this game"). If you take AUR in then AUR will push PLEX price up and push GTC (60days gamecards price to isk) up with 50%.
So in the end people don't buy PLEX, but the better option will be under GTC (it gives CCP more RL money). GTC price will go now up to 1,2bil and people who can not afford to make 1,2bil in 60days (we are not robots) will just quit this game (or you have more issues with bots). Only ones who will stay in this game are the ones with huge wallet on Credit Cards.

Good job CCP, you will lose 50% of players who wanted to play this game. Now there is only ones left who buy this game with RL money. If they decide that eve is bad they don't buy the GTC anymore and now eve online will be at point where ballance is what the customers do, if they keep leaving, (remember the ones who play this game basicly free has friend who buy GTC - buddy program) then this game will go upside down.

BUT before you call me an idiot, if you manage to control the PLEX / ISK value as it is, then this game is doing fine, but you need to not just keep eye on it, but to work very hard times on it! There is always someone who want to make more ISK.

Just to clarify - The lowest monthly average price for ISK was in February of 2010 with a value of roughly 265,000,000 ISK (265 million ISK). We are well aware of the potential, and I stress potential, impact on the market and are thus monitoring the situation closely. We do expect a lot of fluctuations while the market stabilizes based on information in this new devblog. But as you have seen today the market can adjust by itself very rapidly. Sell offers are currently at 404.7 million in Jita, down from a 450 million high earlier today. A typical market reaction when there are uncertainties with new information provided.[/quote:18ae5l8l]

Not speaking to the validity or accuracy of the statements. Just figured I'd transpose since it's at least worthy of being read.

[Shin_getter]

Did anything happen around Feb 2010 that led to low plex prices?

[GiDiYi]

Regarding the argument of clothes being destructible or not.

1 GTC is at 35 $. This will roughly get you currently 800 Million ISK (all numbers are rough estimates pulled out of my arse).

We don't know the exchange-rate for aurum yet, but I assume that CCP wants more than Cents for a new dress, so if I had to guess I'd say 1 $ for a vanity item.

This is the equivalent of 22.857.143,00 ISK. A sum that buys you a rather largish stash of T1-Frigs.

Now I wonder, how this adds up? Oh hai, my new dress costs as much as 100 frigates? I've read somewhere that the usual human in the Eve-Universe never ever gets close to the wealth to even get their hands on a mere frigate.

So I guess, that all non-capsuleers don't have the monies to buy clothes either.

Ergo: TITTIES in INCARNA! \o/

QED.

[KKassandra]

All capsuleer clothes are extra expensive because they're made from the skin of poor people, clearly.


Edit: someone posted an idea for a minigame for Incarna, where you drop coins from the 'capsuleer level' at the top of a station onto the heads of the huddled masses far below. This is the sort of thing Eve needs more of - less 'I am a meaningless low level grunt', more 'I am an immortal demigod who scoffs at the weakness of mere flesh and commands the wealth to buy and sell planets. Mwahaha!'. This can't be done through player-player interaction, clearly, because we're all immortal space demigods etc etc. Therefore, we need huddled masses to opppress and manipulate.

Or just throw things at, either will do.

[Reed Tiburon]

So we're left with the question of how to give you the customizability and uniqueness you want without simply raising the subscription rate.User created content, right? :)

lol no, microtransactions:(
this

also p. mad that the price of my sub will go up. maybe this will be the thing that makes me unsub?

[Lallante]

If I was writing the explanation for captains quarters and vanity items it would go like this:

1) Clothes, paintjobs etc - you aren't buying the item you are buying the licence to the designs, hence you still have it when you die. TBH If it was up to me you would have to pay $100 equiv in Aura and you would get a 1000 run BPC of the clothes :P. Dont have $100? Buy the clothes with ISK from someone who dies.

2) CQ - fuck knows. Maybe it gets "assembled" to your specification when you dock.

[Al Simmons]

AFAIK, ship customization will happen but it's still a ways off. The CSM wants golden Scorpions and shit too, but they are going to test the waters with skirts and trench coats first.




The CSM was solid on the fact that the day we see shit like WoT gold ammo or anything non-vanity that it was a deal breaker. Everyone we spoke with had gotten that this was what we wanted and was kind enough to not say anything bad to our faces. I can't say what CCP will do 5 months from now, but we can all guess that it will be to just ignore the last CSM and try to butter up this one instead, or make them irrelevant. Management did a really good job at pulling the wool over our eyes.

Fixed your post.

If you want to believe such things that's fine. Despite all of the "it went well" coming out of the CSM, that doesnt' mean it's still not made up of a bunch of cynical bastards. Bitter it up all ya want, but the World of Tanks analogy was used over and over and over and over as the standard that we do not want to see EVE cross over to. CCP got that message and you aren't going to see them change over to something else anytime soon, if ever. They can use DUST and WoD for that shit.

You don't pay a £15 sub for tanks though.

[RoemySchneider]

Given that it was inevitable for CCP to introduce vanity microtransactions, I don't think we were going to get a better system than the one in this dev blog. I think it's good that all vanity microtransaction items will still be transferable through all the existing in-game means.

I'm also not prepared to begrudge CCP their desire to make money as a company, since that's like raging about the sun coming up (which we do). And I earnestly believe that they're collectively committed to the game enough that player condemnation isn't necessary to convince them that moving to a "Gold Ammo" or similar non-vanity model is a bad idea. But continually knocking that into their heads is a good thing.

I'm not surprised by all the rage and :tinfoil:, but I think it's unrealistic and alarmist.
look... we're not against CCP milking the dieing cash cow and hopping onto the MT train.

the problem is indeed its connection to PLEX and ISK. PLEX prices may have risen by 'only' ~100% over 15 months but once you include the bigger picture of the time before PLEX where 90d GTC were the most common you can only come to one conclusion: there will be a spike. it happened the day all other but 60d GTC were abolished, and again when PLEX were introduced. and ofc PLEX remain to be more expensive than getting a GTC in the timecode bazaar thingy.
ofc this is no guarantee it'll happen, but it is very very likely.

but let's take a look at supply and demand:
*supply :
- credit-card subcribers will get the gametime they need. they will also get the exact amount to acquire their vanity items. no PLEX are added to the economy.
- people who finance their PvP via GTC/PLEX sales do not magically need more isk all of a sudden. they will not sell more GTC/PLEX. they may buy an extra gtc for 'themselves' to convert to vanity items. no PLEX are added to th economy.
- belt bots continue to rake in a billion every three days. just because one questionable guy posts about his alleged ban and CCP going after the usual high-sec cheaters only (courier bots mostly). these guys finance their entire existence with ISK where they would have to pay £€$ if they didn't cheat. no PLEX are added to the economy. some of them belong under...

* demand :
- all those students and savvy gamers with dozens of billions in their acc will want to buy GTC for these vanity items (or pump some isk into them). huge additional demand.


yes... this will end well....
:psyccp: :psycsm:

[Herschel Yamamoto]

You don't pay a £15 sub for tanks though.

This. I have no objection to buying gold for internet tanks, because it's how they pay for it. I'd be rather pissed if they wanted me to buy gold over and above a mandatory sub, though. Different models, and either is good, but I think it's safe to say that we don't want both.

[Raz]

look... we're not against CCP milking the dieing cash cow and hopping onto the MT train.

the problem is indeed its connection to PLEX and ISK. PLEX prices may have risen by 'only' ~100% over 15 months but once you include the bigger picture of the time before PLEX where 90d GTC were the most common you can only come to one conclusion: there will be a spike. it happened the day all other but 60d GTC were abolished, and again when PLEX were introduced. and ofc PLEX remain to be more expensive than getting a GTC in the timecode bazaar thingy.
ofc this is no guarantee it'll happen, but it is very very likely.

but let's take a look at supply and demand:
*supply :
- credit-card subcribers will get the gametime they need. they will also get the exact amount to acquire their vanity items. no PLEX are added to the economy.
- people who finance their PvP via GTC/PLEX sales do not magically need more isk all of a sudden. they will not sell more GTC/PLEX. they may buy an extra gtc for 'themselves' to convert to vanity items. no PLEX are added to th economy.
- belt bots continue to rake in a billion every three days. just because one questionable guy posts about his alleged ban and CCP going after the usual high-sec cheaters only (courier bots mostly). these guys finance their entire existence with ISK where they would have to pay £€$ if they didn't cheat. no PLEX are added to the economy. some of them belong under...

* demand :
- all those students and savvy gamers with dozens of billions in their acc will want to buy GTC for these vanity items (or pump some isk into them). huge additional demand.


yes... this will end well....
:psyccp: :psycsm:

I was more addressing the general "WTFCCPWANTSTOMAKEMONEYFROMTHEGAMETHEYMAKE!!!" than the more sound concerns about the plex market :) On the latter, I guess we'll just wait and see.

[Don Pellegrino]

I just tested it out on duality and I really need to say this:

Unless they make it so that the pose when taking the portrait is saved, changing any clothing will be very frustrating.


Also, 1 PLEX = 3,500 AUR, but since we don't know how much vanity items are gonna cost this information is pretty much worthless.

[Virtuozzo]

I do wonder what the RMT handlers & kartels are thinking at the moment.

Not intended as an evil thought, but in many ways CCP is stepping into an arena which RMT already moved in to after Unholy Rage: item / service sales (as opposed to old fashioned gold selling). Add an extra currency, which cannot make tracking easier (unless CCP invests a lot harder in business intelligence instrumentation). Hrm.

[Tarminic]

Given that it was inevitable for CCP to introduce vanity microtransactions, I don't think we were going to get a better system than the one in this dev blog. I think it's good that all vanity microtransaction items will still be transferable through all the existing in-game means.

I'm also not prepared to begrudge CCP their desire to make money as a company, since that's like raging about the sun coming up (which we do). And I earnestly believe that they're collectively committed to the game enough that player condemnation isn't necessary to convince them that moving to a "Gold Ammo" or similar non-vanity model is a bad idea. But continually knocking that into their heads is a good thing.

I'm not surprised by all the rage and :tinfoil:, but I think it's unrealistic and alarmist.
look... we're not against CCP milking the dieing cash cow and hopping onto the MT train.

the problem is indeed its connection to PLEX and ISK. PLEX prices may have risen by 'only' ~100% over 15 months but once you include the bigger picture of the time before PLEX where 90d GTC were the most common you can only come to one conclusion: there will be a spike. it happened the day all other but 60d GTC were abolished, and again when PLEX were introduced. and ofc PLEX remain to be more expensive than getting a GTC in the timecode bazaar thingy.
ofc this is no guarantee it'll happen, but it is very very likely.

but let's take a look at supply and demand:
*supply :
- credit-card subcribers will get the gametime they need. they will also get the exact amount to acquire their vanity items. no PLEX are added to the economy.
- people who finance their PvP via GTC/PLEX sales do not magically need more isk all of a sudden. they will not sell more GTC/PLEX. they may buy an extra gtc for 'themselves' to convert to vanity items. no PLEX are added to th economy.
- belt bots continue to rake in a billion every three days. just because one questionable guy posts about his alleged ban and CCP going after the usual high-sec cheaters only (courier bots mostly). these guys finance their entire existence with ISK where they would have to pay £€$ if they didn't cheat. no PLEX are added to the economy. some of them belong under...

* demand :
- all those students and savvy gamers with dozens of billions in their acc will want to buy GTC for these vanity items (or pump some isk into them). huge additional demand.


yes... this will end well....
:psyccp: :psycsm:
Care to make a numeric prediction?

[Mynxee]

Mord Fiddle offers some interesting opinions about the relationship of AUR and Supercaps here (http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/aur-and-super-carrier.html). His conclusion:

"CCP is a for profit company. When CCP Greyscale suddenly breaks pattern and begins to act out of character, a for profit motive is the likely diagnosis."

[RoemySchneider]

Care to make a numeric prediction?

nah. what don said: even if we know the exchange rate; we neither know the price nor the actual(resulting) interest in this crap -.-

all i can say for sure is "it's going up"

but i must admit i'm.... 'curious'.... about what other tools eggnog has at his disposal to manipulate PLEX prices beyond the exchange rate - short of dumping 'fresh' PLEX onto the market with an admin account just to drive the price down (and make GTC sellers get more GTC to afford that supercap/the daily pvp) [/tinfoil]

[noobcake]

Ha...how coincidental that this dev blog was published about 10 minutes after my post in the CQ thread (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=77492#p77492)...


Bottom line, Incarna is not optional because by making it so, CCP would risk half-hearted adoption by the community, which could lead to new players being influenced by the actions of respected longer-term players and choosing to opt out as well. In doing so, players would avoid exposure to ads or whatever it is they're going to use to pimp the sales of microtransaction vanity items. You can't really convince people to pay extra $$$ for those cool fashion designer outfits and hats if they're sitting in a spaceship and not staring at their own boring ass in the CQ.

In their blogs, both Seleene and Trebor alluded to the new vanity items being really cool. The lone avatar/CQ first strategy seems like a deliberate choice to set up an environment where the only real "new" content on offer is vanity items. Because after all, an important first step in getting any customer to buy a product is to get them to look at it first. Create desire (even if by force) and the money will soon follow. I don't think CCP is as clueless about this as people like to think they are.

yes, that's it....they caved to your post about allusions to cool add-ons in the CQ...

[Me]

Given that it was inevitable for CCP to introduce vanity microtransactions, I don't think we were going to get a better system than the one in this dev blog. I think it's good that all vanity microtransaction items will still be transferable through all the existing in-game means.

I'm also not prepared to begrudge CCP their desire to make money as a company, since that's like raging about the sun coming up (which we do). And I earnestly believe that they're collectively committed to the game enough that player condemnation isn't necessary to convince them that moving to a "Gold Ammo" or similar non-vanity model is a bad idea. But continually knocking that into their heads is a good thing.

I'm not surprised by all the rage and :tinfoil:, but I think it's unrealistic and alarmist.
look... we're not against CCP milking the dieing cash cow and hopping onto the MT train.

the problem is indeed its connection to PLEX and ISK. PLEX prices may have risen by 'only' ~100% over 15 months but once you include the bigger picture of the time before PLEX where 90d GTC were the most common you can only come to one conclusion: there will be a spike. it happened the day all other but 60d GTC were abolished, and again when PLEX were introduced. and ofc PLEX remain to be more expensive than getting a GTC in the timecode bazaar thingy.
ofc this is no guarantee it'll happen, but it is very very likely.

but let's take a look at supply and demand:
*supply :
- credit-card subcribers will get the gametime they need. they will also get the exact amount to acquire their vanity items. no PLEX are added to the economy.
- people who finance their PvP via GTC/PLEX sales do not magically need more isk all of a sudden. they will not sell more GTC/PLEX. they may buy an extra gtc for 'themselves' to convert to vanity items. no PLEX are added to th economy.
- belt bots continue to rake in a billion every three days. just because one questionable guy posts about his alleged ban and CCP going after the usual high-sec cheaters only (courier bots mostly). these guys finance their entire existence with ISK where they would have to pay £€$ if they didn't cheat. no PLEX are added to the economy. some of them belong under...

* demand :
- all those students and savvy gamers with dozens of billions in their acc will want to buy GTC for these vanity items (or pump some isk into them). huge additional demand.


yes... this will end well....
:psyccp: :psycsm:


I'd expect the people who fund PVP with plex would end up buying less of them. eg plex at 350mill = 1 fully fit abaddon, plex price jumps to 700mill and you can get twice as many abaddons. So unless they all start loosing more and need to replace more the supply from them should drop thereby impacting the price even more. :nostradamus:

[Mynxee]

Ha...how coincidental that this dev blog was published about 10 minutes after my post in the CQ thread (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=77492#p77492)...


Bottom line, Incarna is not optional because by making it so, CCP would risk half-hearted adoption by the community, which could lead to new players being influenced by the actions of respected longer-term players and choosing to opt out as well. In doing so, players would avoid exposure to ads or whatever it is they're going to use to pimp the sales of microtransaction vanity items. You can't really convince people to pay extra $$$ for those cool fashion designer outfits and hats if they're sitting in a spaceship and not staring at their own boring ass in the CQ.

In their blogs, both Seleene and Trebor alluded to the new vanity items being really cool. The lone avatar/CQ first strategy seems like a deliberate choice to set up an environment where the only real "new" content on offer is vanity items. Because after all, an important first step in getting any customer to buy a product is to get them to look at it first. Create desire (even if by force) and the money will soon follow. I don't think CCP is as clueless about this as people like to think they are.

yes, that's it....they caved to your post about allusions to cool add-ons in the CQ...

harr harr. I was being facetious.

[Don Pellegrino]

Changing the exchange rate would generate a lot of rage.

Dumping PLEX on the market out of nowhere is the way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP had to do it in the past. Telling the playerbase about things like that affects the players' reaction so if it was done we will never know.

[RoemySchneider]

Changing the exchange rate would generate a lot of rage.

Dumping PLEX out of nowhere is the way to go.
belt bot subsidies \o/
:roll:

[Al Simmons]

Btw how long should I wait before buying plex? I'm thinking 500 mil, that way one transaction gets me a tasty bil.

[Rivqua]

Changing the exchange rate would generate a lot of rage.

Dumping PLEX on the market out of nowhere is the way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP had to do it in the past. Telling the playerbase about things like that affects the players' reaction so if it was done we will never know.

But injecting PLEX into the market seems a horrible, non-ccp way to do business. It's retarded, and I doubt anyone would even consider doing it. Even suggesting it is close to ::troll:: dubious.

[Raz]

Changing the exchange rate would generate a lot of rage.

Dumping PLEX on the market out of nowhere is the way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP had to do it in the past. Telling the playerbase about things like that affects the players' reaction so if it was done we will never know.

But injecting PLEX into the market seems a horrible, non-ccp way to do business. It's retarded, and I doubt anyone would even consider doing it. Even suggesting it is close to ::troll:: dubious.

Yeah, I really have to wonder at CCP's willingness to put PLEX into the game that no one has paid cashy money for even if it would be an effective way to regulate the price. Doesn't seem like good business for them to essentially take money out of their pocket.

[Lancehot]

CCP will only intervene in the plex market in ways that result in more ETCs being bought. After all, they don't make money off all those alt accounts pushing up the price of plexes. They make money off those using their wallets to make some isk off those alt accounts pushing up the price of plexes.

[Space Panda]

I'm not really worried by this, given that I prefer to run around naked anyway.

[RoemySchneider]

I'm not really worried by this, given that I prefer to run around naked anyway.
penis pump for 10,000 aurum in 3...2...

[Xiang Jiao]

How much will engine trails cost?

It would be foolish not to charge Aurum for such a vanity item, provided that we get our old trails back gratis (we didn't pay for it before). If you want a billowy fire ball erupting out of the back of your ship instead, that should cost extra. In the same vein, jump drive animations could be expanded as well and sold for Aurum. Capital pilots should be at least offered a choice of one of the two previously available (current and lightning funnel) animation for free, and others can be added later for an additional fee. An Amarr role player would definitely be interested in a new Neutralizer animation that bathes the victim in the heavenly aura of God Himself. Someone is going to say that all this for real money will destroy the immersion of the game. However, I contend that all these possibilities add new dimensions to the game without destroying the balance, and are aligned with the promise of Vanity Items Only for MT.

Zulu's wording about revising the MT strategy later is a bit unnerving, perhaps it's a troll?

Ammo with better stats available for purchase with Aurum only, for example, would be a disappointment which really goes against the spirit of the game, since everything else that fits on your ship can be constructed from a BPC, bought in an LP store, or farmed off a rat. This really does give a serious leg up to the customer that is willing to part with more cash. If anything like this ever happens in Eve, I sure hope they balance it with unlimited characters slots on my account (allowing multiple characters to be logged on simultaneously) or free monthly subs so I can have as many accounts as I want.

A thought about destructible clothing: It could add an excellent griefing and PvP possibility to the game. Player Amarrian Lord walks around the Oris Emperor Family Academy acting like he owns the place, snarling at servants, and glowering at the good citizens of Amarr. His glittering crown of nobility is an insult to your very existence. Why not take it? You cloak up, hiding in wait outside of his station hangar. As soon as his Imperial Navy Shuttle undocks, you call your posse of smartbomb-fitted Armageddeons to warp in and vaporize the poor vassal. You sift though the wreckage of his pod and find, the crown! What a glorious prize!

That said having all MT clothing destructible would be a pain in the fucking ass. Some players get podded weekly. I think helmets, head dresses, hats, and crowns would be an appropriate item to leave destructible (or recoverable from the corpse) since they represent authority and are symbols of rank, the loss of which implies loss of standing and power. A very decent role playing concept that fits into the current game play quite well.

[Aurora148]

still don't give a shit

why are you faggots getting so sandy vagina about something restricted to vanity items which you aren't forced to use?

[Al Simmons]

Also hats. I want fucking hats, see TF2 for inspiration.

Oh shit, what if you could put giant space hats on your ship? WTB Rapier with Haunted Skull with ghosts effect.

[Larkonis Trassler]

still don't give a shit

why are you faggots getting so sandy vagina about something restricted to vanity items which you aren't forced to use?

Because, ultimately, there will be a knock on effect on the PLEX market which those of us who aren't bads use. (EDIT: I actually don't give a toss because I'm more than a half bad and can fund my EVE with minimal time and effort).


Also, if I can't smoke a pipe in Incarna I will literally fly to Iceland on my own dime and strangle Zulu with my thighs.

[RoemySchneider]

Also, if I can't smoke a pipe in Incarna I will literally fly to Iceland on my own dime and strangle Zulu with my thighs.
notsureifthatwillresultindesiredoutcome.jpg

[Leboe]

Also, if I can't smoke a pipe in Incarna I will literally fly to Iceland on my own dime and strangle Zulu with my thighs.
notsureifthatwillresultindesiredoutcome.jpg



is that even a real picture?

[Brimborium]

All this bullcrap wouldn't be necessary, if ccp hadn't decided to spend their dough on WoD or Dust.(or those expensive holidays in Pyongyang) :lol:
but seriously
I play eve, and i am not willing to pay for Dust and WoD too. (unless i get a free subscription for those games aswell).Yeah, i saw the nerds root at fanfest, when they saw new hardware for ccp, to play around with. I have seen the "future vision" vid.(Which had DireLauthris written all over it)And i am not sure i would extend my subscription(s) for that, if it costs me 30% more in isk, to maintain those account(s). Seriously, Ray-traced mirrors in CQ, ok, looks cool, but well, i could do without that.Spend those 50 k. on another dev, and i would be happier.

I can understand why CCP wants us to spend more money on their game.But they better be honest about it, and not try to fool us with stealthy "price buffs"or introduction of a new currency, (which nobody knows the value of).

and before you even ask, yes i Mad

[Bartholomeus Crane]

but i must admit i'm.... 'curious'.... about what other tools eggnog has at his disposal to manipulate PLEX prices beyond the exchange rate - short of dumping 'fresh' PLEX onto the market with an admin account just to drive the price down (and make GTC sellers get more GTC to afford that supercap/the daily pvp) [/tinfoil]

*BINGO*

What other levers does he have?

[Rakshasa The Cat]

With the 3500 (non-rounded) conversion rate on SiSi and them dodging my questions regarding this, it seems likely they'll adjust the exchange rate to keep both markets healthy. Since the conversion is only possible from PLEX to AUR this should work.

[Rudolf Miller]

Also, if I can't smoke a pipe in Incarna I will literally fly to Iceland on my own dime and strangle Zulu with my thighs.
notsureifthatwillresultindesiredoutcome.jpg



is that even a real picture?

google says no.

but perhaps.. it should be forged.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

PLEX spiked hilariously today, took advantage of that tbh.

[Marlona Sky]

I bet it hits 500 million before the expansion actually hits TQ.

[Zoidberg]

Doesn't microtransactions for just vanity items kill yet another potential source of content for the true Incarna? A long time ago, CCP said that players would have the opportunity to become clothing designers (in space) in Incarna. With the microtransaction shop, I doubt that'll happen.

[Caius Sivaris]

Doesn't microtransactions for just vanity items kill yet another potential source of content for the true Incarna? A long time ago, CCP said that players would have the opportunity to become clothing designers (in space) in Incarna. With the microtransaction shop, I doubt that'll happen.

On the bright side, they get people to pay even more to beta test World of Twilight.

[EchoEpsilon23]

:monocledowns:

[Zoidberg]

Doesn't microtransactions for just vanity items kill yet another potential source of content for the true Incarna? A long time ago, CCP said that players would have the opportunity to become clothing designers (in space) in Incarna. With the microtransaction shop, I doubt that'll happen.

On the bright side, they get people to pay even more to beta test World of Twilight.
It's kind of sad. I wasn't exactly looking forward to being a Space Tailor, but at least it was something, and I'm sure the community could have come up with some interesting designs. Taking away content like that is just completely typical of the DLC Age of Gaming.

[Sponk]

Well Valve pays out >$20 000 per week to the community creators of various Team fortress 2 hats.

That's even enough to pay Vuk Lau's rent.

[Zoidberg]

I doubt CCP will be as accepting as community stuff as Valve is, but who can say? I never would have expect EVE to get DLC not too long ago, so I guess anything is possible.

[Sponk]

I doubt CCP will be as accepting as community stuff as Valve is
:cough:spaceshipcompetitionjustliketf2hatcompetiti on:cough:

[Zoidberg]

I doubt CCP will be as accepting as community stuff as Valve is
:cough:spaceshipcompetitionjustliketf2hatcompetiti on:cough:
I forgot. Still, Valve takes it to a very different scale.

[Sponk]

Well, valve tends to fucking follow through with things.

[Haffrage]

Well, valve tends to fucking follow through with things.
lolwat

Need I remind you of episode 3? Then there's the L4D1 DLC that took like a fucking year to appear - oh also this was incidentally around when L4D2 was announced.

Also, the TF2 community hat shit is pretty much literally a bunch of models they have sent in and only slightly modify before putting in the game. IIRC 75% of sales go to the creators, and it serves as a mutually-beneficial relationship. Valve gets brownie points for supporting gamers, TF2 is "by gamers, for gamers," the creators get money for spending ~30 minutes in maya or whatever, etc.etc.

What CCP did with that ship competition, to the best of my knowledge, was quite a bit different since they allowed paintings and all that. Don't know if they took Pattern's models, but I doubt they'll put them in as-is like valve does with most tf2 hats.

[Lana Torrin]

So... On Duality you get 3 free PLEXs now (which I stupidly left in the started station) to test this stuff out with. Bought a couple off the market because they are seeded..

Took me a while to even notice the button on the old station side bar, I couldn't find anything in the CQ its self that would let me enter this 'shop'. Why this isn't available in the character creator I don't know. Come to that why this 'new' content only works with the old content and not the other 'new' content I also don't know, its not like you don't have enough stupid control panels that don't do anything that could be put to good use.

So I converted my 10 PLEX in to 35,000 whatever they are, bought a dress off the market and proceeded to re-customize my character. With the notice 'warp drive active' it dropped me in to the character editor (WFT CCP, a ding isnt good enough for you?). So its a simple matter to put the new dress on and fiddle with some of the other clothing to make it look nice, accept the changes, take a new portrait and BAM! No one can see my new dress..

Happy that I just wasted 5 mins of my life I walk over to the couch where I notice I have gone translucent and you can no longer see my arms. I don't know what they put in to the space age fabric but its clearly not good for your sanity.

One thing I DID notice is that everything seems to have a 'designer' tag on it. So this might indicate that people will be allowed to submit designed in the future... I can only hope.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

One thing I DID notice is that everything seems to have a 'designer' tag on it. So this might indicate that people will be allowed to submit designed in the future... I can only hope.
CCP has contracted cloth designers for years to work on those cloths, so the tags would likely reflect who made them.

[RoemySchneider]

well... as long as they run an equally large balancing team
ohwait

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Why aren't those fashion designers balancing blasters!

[Sponk]

Why aren't those fashion designers balancing blasters!
on their heads!

[Lancehot]

Why aren't those fashion designers balancing blasters!
on their heads!
Get Lady Gaga on the phone!

[Joshua Foiritain]

So this thing is vanity items only?

Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy.

Look at dat slippery slope !

Max 8-)

The CSM was solid on the fact that the day we see shit like WoT gold ammo or anything non-vanity that it was a deal breaker. Everyone we spoke with had gotten the message about VANITY ITEMS ONLY. I can't say what CCP will do 5 years from now, but the current management seems to get it.
I will bet a thousand dollars that CCP will eventually start releasing more then just vanity items through this. I think they'll start with unique ships.

On the overall yay for being able to buy this stuff with isk through plexes.

[thebomby]

Last message from an corpy who was born with bitter vet syndrome: "I'm out, can't believe how much money this crap cost me. Have fun 07".

MT will make more bitter vets than any of the other shit CCP has done, I thinking. In the beginning, it will be fun and interesting, like the first 3 minutes of CQ, but when bears of all shades start losing their wildly expensive crap, the unsubbing will start slapping CCP in the face like a pronstar slapping his dick in some other pronstar's face.

[Al Simmons]

I had a conversation with a corp mate from an old corp today. He told me he was quitting Eve as soon as MT for items came in. I had to explain to him, "no no, it's just vanity items, like clothes for Incarna and shit".

Now this guy is an extremely experienced player, he just doesn't really read forums and and all that stuff. If a 6-year player can get the wrong end of the stick like that, can you imagine how many newer players are going to hear the word "microtransactions" and go "pay for ships/items with real money? Fuck this, i'm outta here".

[Sofia Roseburn]

If a 6-year player can get the wrong end of the stick like that, can you imagine how many newer players are going to hear the word "microtransactions" and go "pay for ships/items with real money? Fuck this, i'm outta here".

People who have no interest in finding out the context of things like that won't be missed.

[Evelgrivion]

[quote="Al Simmons":sdlg3rll] If a 6-year player can get the wrong end of the stick like that, can you imagine how many newer players are going to hear the word "microtransactions" and go "pay for ships/items with real money? Fuck this, i'm outta here".

People who have no interest in finding out the context of things like that won't be missed.[/quote:sdlg3rll]

But what happens when CCP introduces non-vanity items to the mix? Will you still be laughing at his ineptitude?

[Lancehot]

Given that microtransactions are the way the world is going, I would expect newer players to be much more open to non-vanity items being purchasable from ingame stores than vets, who no doubt prefer to stick to ebay for that sort of thing.

[Evelgrivion]

Given that microtransactions are the way the world is going, I would expect newer players to be much more open to non-vanity items being purchasable from ingame stores than vets, who no doubt prefer to stick to ebay for that sort of thing.

Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.

[Sofia Roseburn]

[quote="Al Simmons":2k6tyynq] If a 6-year player can get the wrong end of the stick like that, can you imagine how many newer players are going to hear the word "microtransactions" and go "pay for ships/items with real money? Fuck this, i'm outta here".

People who have no interest in finding out the context of things like that won't be missed.

But what happens when CCP introduces non-vanity items to the mix? Will you still be laughing at his ineptitude?[/quote:2k6tyynq]

I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

[Al Simmons]

[quote="Al Simmons":1iv1enmg] If a 6-year player can get the wrong end of the stick like that, can you imagine how many newer players are going to hear the word "microtransactions" and go "pay for ships/items with real money? Fuck this, i'm outta here".

People who have no interest in finding out the context of things like that won't be missed.[/quote:1iv1enmg]

I'd miss him. Not everyone reads every forum thread or devlog or patch note, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Sofia Roseburn]

I'd miss him. Not everyone reads every forum thread or devlog or patch note, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Nobody would miss you if you left.

Fatty.

[Al Simmons]

Ok, spotty.

[Lana Torrin]

I will bet a thousand dollars that CCP will eventually start releasing more then just vanity items through this. I think they'll start with unique ships.

I fully expect to see 'unique' ships that are identical to existing ships, except for the paint job, for sale within 18 months. Once ccp see the amount of extra money this has the potential to bring in they will go full ahead to grab for it.

[Zoidberg]

[quote="Joshua Foiritain":sp5ytu2x]I will bet a thousand dollars that CCP will eventually start releasing more then just vanity items through this. I think they'll start with unique ships.

I fully expect to see 'unique' ships that are identical to existing ships, except for the paint job, for sale within 18 months. Once ccp see the amount of extra money this has the potential to bring in they will go full ahead to grab for it.[/quote:sp5ytu2x]
As soon as actual and usable items are in the MT store, I'm out. I hope that CCP has the sense to offer just "paint kits" for ships you got from normal means, but I'm pretty sure we'll eventually see real items in the store. It's sad seeing this game sink so low, and what makes it worse is that it now seems like this sleazy method of selling video game content has reached pretty much every corner of the industry.



Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

[Evelgrivion]

Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the issue in this. :)

[Zoidberg]

Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the issue in this. :)
What further confuses the issue is all of CCP's language on the matter promotes the fact that MT-spawned items are still tradable for ISK on the market. It seems like they're consciously trying to make people forget that MT-spawned items require real money from someone to come into being, unlike all other items in the game.

[Dratic]

Not surprised by this most of the industry is going for these cheap item gimmicks. Its just distateful they've said in the past they only need 50k subs for eve to breakeven nowadays sub numbers are over 300k more closer to 350k. Now microtransactions just feels like this cow really is getting milked. If it werent for plex and people in game why bother.

[Mynxee]

Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the issue in this. :)
What further confuses the issue is all of CCP's language on the matter promotes the fact that MT-spawned items are still tradable for ISK on the market. It seems like they're consciously trying to make people forget that MT-spawned items require real money from someone to come into being, unlike all other items in the game.

This exactly. I don't believe for a minute that CCP won't be introducing non-vanity items, special stuff for re-subbers that can be paid for with PLEX, and a whole slew of "services" both in and out of game. Why would they ignore such revenue opportunities? More importantly, why would their investors let them? A company with 600 employees has GOT to keep the milk from the cash cow flowing. Besides, I think after the initial excitement of Barbie in Space dress up, the novelty will wear off, and people will want something more meaningful for their additional investment in the game. Combine that with the fact that once people are used to the idea of microtransactions as part of EVE, its acceptance is likely to grow and opposition to non-vanity items diminish. I fully expect the promise made to CSM5 to be overturned within two years, no matter how well and strongly the current and future CSMs argue against it. I agree with Lana...CCP will probably build that bridge with something like a new hull ... same stats, so no in-game advantage but sufficient perceived value due to rarity that some folks will be frothing at the mouth to own it even if it is only available thru the in-game store. If players drink that koolaid, then there's no end to the variations on normal items that might be offered--for probably very little development investment.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Seems half the people in this thread are looking for excuses to quit EVE... Why not just save the time, skip the doom and gloom conspiracy theories and just give me your stuff?

[Mynxee]

Seems half the people in this thread are looking for excuses to quit EVE... Why not just save the time, skip the doom and gloom conspiracy theories and just give me your stuff?

Already quit, already gave most everything away to my VETO mates, uninstalled the client. Satisfied? ;) <3

[Lana Torrin]

Seems half the people in this thread are looking for excuses to quit EVE... Why not just save the time, skip the doom and gloom conspiracy theories and just give me your stuff?

See this is where you are wrong.. I like eve. I even pay for a couple of my accounts with cash because I get enough enjoyment out of it to warrant the $30 investment (Thats 6 cups of coffee for me, something I also drink a lot of). I don't want it to get all fucked up by people that can drop a couple of hundred dollars on the game because lol they can afford it and then magically they get an advantage that I don't and cant have without dropping even more money on the game.

Strictly vanity items that have no in game value or property besides making your avatar look good I honestly couldn't give a fuck about. Sure I don't like the idea that there is content in a game that im already paying for that I cant have access too without paying again, but I can live with it because fuck incarna.

I am however truly worried that, given all of CCPs past record on keeping promises, this is not going to stop at making my doll look nice (something I got over when I was 12 BTW). I'm worried BECAUSE I like playing the game, not because I'm looking for an excuse to quit.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Already quit, already gave most everything away to my VETO mates, uninstalled the client. Satisfied? ;) <3
Yet still posting in FHC like a guy lurking around a morgue, denied access to his girlfriends after getting caught redhanded.

[Mynxee]

Already quit, already gave most everything away to my VETO mates, uninstalled the client. Satisfied? ;) <3
Yet still posting in FHC like a guy lurking around a morgue, denied access to his girlfriends after getting caught redhanded.

yeah that's me. :roll: or maybe it's because I enjoy the conversation here. Most of the time.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

I am however truly worried that, given all of CCPs past record on keeping promises, this is not going to stop at making my doll look nice (something I got over when I was 12 BTW). I'm worried BECAUSE I like playing the game, not because I'm looking for an excuse to quit.
You are pre-judging CCP, making the assumption that they will break a pretty strong promise they made to the community. (This not being just a 'it will be released next week' kind of promise)

If they're going to break _THAT_ promise of non-vanity MT, then nothing you say or do will make them change their minds short of a large portion of the player-base quitting. There are two ways of approaching this; trust, but verify... or BE VERY VERY ANGRY THE WHOLE TIME.

Spending the whole time being the latter will make it very hard for CCP to take you seriously when they're at a crossroads and player input might be helpful.

[Joshua Foiritain]

You are pre-judging CCP, making the assumption that they will break a pretty strong promise they made to the community.
Name a single 'strong' promise they haven't actually gone and broken within two years...

CCP's promises are even more imaginary then their QA division :lol:

[Lana Torrin]

There are two ways of approaching this; trust, but verify... or BE VERY VERY ANGRY THE WHOLE TIME.

Spending the whole time being the latter will make it very hard for CCP to take you seriously when they're at a crossroads and player input might be helpful.

Guess which one I have picked... Also given that my eve-o ban STILL hasn't been lifted then I don't get a say anyway. Doesn't mean I don't care, because honestly if I didn't care I wouldn't be posting on this subject (or I would be trolling the people that did care)

[Zoidberg]

Does anyone remember years back the controversy over CCP's prize draw for buddy account referrals? It used to be that people who got a buddy signed up for EVE were entered into a drawing to win a faction ship within the game, and people got really upset over the fact that CCP was spawning gameplay affecting items into the game for out of game reasons. CCP eventually stopped doing those drawings for in-game items (I think), but it's funny how in just a few years how much worse the whole situation has gotten.







Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the issue in this. :)
What further confuses the issue is all of CCP's language on the matter promotes the fact that MT-spawned items are still tradable for ISK on the market. It seems like they're consciously trying to make people forget that MT-spawned items require real money from someone to come into being, unlike all other items in the game.

This exactly. I don't believe for a minute that CCP won't be introducing non-vanity items, special stuff for re-subbers that can be paid for with PLEX, and a whole slew of "services" both in and out of game. Why would they ignore such revenue opportunities? More importantly, why would their investors let them? A company with 600 employees has GOT to keep the milk from the cash cow flowing. Besides, I think after the initial excitement of Barbie in Space dress up, the novelty will wear off, and people will want something more meaningful for their additional investment in the game. Combine that with the fact that once people are used to the idea of microtransactions as part of EVE, its acceptance is likely to grow and opposition to non-vanity items diminish. I fully expect the promise made to CSM5 to be overturned within two years, no matter how well and strongly the current and future CSMs argue against it. I agree with Lana...CCP will probably build that bridge with something like a new hull ... same stats, so no in-game advantage but sufficient perceived value due to rarity that some folks will be frothing at the mouth to own it even if it is only available thru the in-game store. If players drink that koolaid, then there's no end to the variations on normal items that might be offered--for probably very little development investment.
Like I said in a different post, I hope in the case of new ship skins, they sell "kits" for remodeling your existing ship, rather than sell unique ships. One is just you paying for a skin, while the other is you paying to generate a functioning, gameplay affecting item in the game. The latter crosses the line.


Seems half the people in this thread are looking for excuses to quit EVE... Why not just save the time, skip the doom and gloom conspiracy theories and just give me your stuff?
Nope, I'm like Lana. I think EVE is brilliant, but I dread where it's (obviously) going.




If they're going to break _THAT_ promise of non-vanity MT, then nothing you say or do will make them change their minds short of a large portion of the player-base quitting. There are two ways of approaching this; trust, but verify... or BE VERY VERY ANGRY THE WHOLE TIME.

Spending the whole time being the latter will make it very hard for CCP to take you seriously when they're at a crossroads and player input might be helpful.
I don't think anything works in these situations besides throwing a complete shit fit on the forums.

[Lana Torrin]

Like I said in a different post, I hope in the case of new ship skins, they sell "kits" for remodeling your existing ship, rather than sell unique ships. One is just you paying for a skin, while the other is you paying to generate a functioning, gameplay affecting item in the game. The latter crosses the line.

Do you know what I honestly think will happen for this? I think CCP will go in to it with the intention of doing exactly what you say, and release videos and promises and customisable kits and such.. They will then spend 6 months coding and realise the whole graphics subsystem (or some other core part of the game) was never designed for this type of modification and will need to be completely re-written.. As this is a MASSIVE amount of work they will decide in the short term to simply release the whole ship pre-customised until they get the (insert subsystem here) to work as its needed to.

Being CCP, the initial intent will be to fix this up in an upcoming release, but they will get distracted by oooo shiny and forget, leaving us with a half finished product that is shit.

[Zoidberg]

Is it really that hard programming wise to just swap the skin on a ship? I legitimately don't know.

[Lana Torrin]

Is it really that hard programming wise to just swap the skin on a ship? I legitimately don't know.

If you have a well written engine that is designed to do it then no, its a piece of cake.. I think we have already established that eve does not have a well written engine and I doubt it was ever designed to do this. Its probably not that hard to hack it in either if you know the engine well enough or its got good documentation, but is there anyone at CCP that knows trinity that well anymore? Does anyone document anything over there??

You also wouldn't think that the ability to light a covert cyno wouldn't be too hard to change from hard coded to using the jump harmonics attribute, but they don't seem to have gotten that working for T3s yet..

[Kenpachi]

Is it really that hard programming wise to just swap the skin on a ship? I legitimately don't know.

No, the hard work is the art :obama:

[Zoidberg]

Will the custom paint job be listed in the killmail?

In effect, we trade your original ship for a new one. Yes, it is functionally identical, but it will have a new name, new descriptive text, a new item ID, a new market ID, and a new appearance.

So, yes.

And if you go to sell it in the marketplace, it will show up in the system under a different listing.
That's (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1517440&page=10#288) how they're going to do it apparently.

[Cerbus]

Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the issue in this. :)

you are well aware that was one of the major reasons for my campaign last year and people are aware of this issue. Sadly most can't see reason and thus we have legions of faggots like Rasksomethingarother the Cat who fund their game with rl money because they're shit at the game.

[Cerbus]

Will the custom paint job be listed in the killmail?

In effect, we trade your original ship for a new one. Yes, it is functionally identical, but it will have a new name, new descriptive text, a new item ID, a new market ID, and a new appearance.

So, yes.

And if you go to sell it in the marketplace, it will show up in the system under a different listing.
That's (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1517440&page=10#288) how they're going to do it apparently.

Without changing the current way items and the database works they have to do it like this, or rather this is the easiest way of doing it rather than rewriting some new code to handle these new features (or so i was told last year).



Is it really that hard programming wise to just swap the skin on a ship? I legitimately don't know.

No, the hard work is the art :obama:

They may also have alot of trouble with some of the existing UV maps (co-ordinates on the models that are relevant to where the model's textures is placed). Some ships use repeating patterns to make up what they look like so changing the look will be extremely restricted for these ships and most of the textures are mirrored for one side or the other so having unique designs for symetrical ships could be difficult.

I'd really like to see some damage decals for the ships but if they continue to create new ships rather than load new textures for the current piloted ship I'd not see this happening. A bit of rust and damage makes a big difference :(

[youtube:132kogsv]UZw8o4OWLKI[/youtube:132kogsv]

[Rakshasa The Cat]

you are well aware that was one of the major reasons for my campaign last year and people are aware of this issue. Sadly most can't see reason and thus we have legions of faggots like Rasksomethingarother the Cat who fund their game with rl money because they're shit at the game.
Considering that my accounts can run a couple of decades on PLEX no problem, I fail to see how I fail at EVE.

Someone who takes his toys and goes home when he doesn't get what he wants shouldn't be telling me I fail. That pretty ineffectual stunt of yours just made everyone go lol-what? and the adults went onto extract a only-vanity-items concession from CCP.

[Malcanis]

Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the issue in this. :)
What further confuses the issue is all of CCP's language on the matter promotes the fact that MT-spawned items are still tradable for ISK on the market. It seems like they're consciously trying to make people forget that MT-spawned items require real money from someone to come into being, unlike all other items in the game.

This exactly. I don't believe for a minute that CCP won't be introducing non-vanity items, special stuff for re-subbers that can be paid for with PLEX, and a whole slew of "services" both in and out of game. Why would they ignore such revenue opportunities? More importantly, why would their investors let them? A company with 600 employees has GOT to keep the milk from the cash cow flowing. Besides, I think after the initial excitement of Barbie in Space dress up, the novelty will wear off, and people will want something more meaningful for their additional investment in the game. Combine that with the fact that once people are used to the idea of microtransactions as part of EVE, its acceptance is likely to grow and opposition to non-vanity items diminish. I fully expect the promise made to CSM5 to be overturned within two years, no matter how well and strongly the current and future CSMs argue against it. I agree with Lana...CCP will probably build that bridge with something like a new hull ... same stats, so no in-game advantage but sufficient perceived value due to rarity that some folks will be frothing at the mouth to own it even if it is only available thru the in-game store. If players drink that koolaid, then there's no end to the variations on normal items that might be offered--for probably very little development investment.

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".

[Evelgrivion]

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".

A vanity item that no one built, that no one owns the blueprint for, that nobody has to mine any minerals for, and can be bought in any amount so long as someone is willing to front the cash.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".

A vanity item that no one built, that no one owns the blueprint for, that nobody has to mine any minerals for, and can be bought in any amount so long as someone is willing to front the cash.
Yes that's horrible, and if CCP had already thought off and plugged that hole in the plan we'd look like idiots for splerging about it here.

Oh... They did, they already said explicitly that turning something into a vanity ship would require a normal version of the ship. I guess we're looking pretty stupid now, eh?

Wait, I meant to say YOU look pretty fucking stupid now.

[Evelgrivion]

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".

A vanity item that no one built, that no one owns the blueprint for, that nobody has to mine any minerals for, and can be bought in any amount so long as someone is willing to front the cash.
Yes that's horrible, and if CCP had already thought off and plugged that hole in the plan we'd look like idiots for splerging about it here.

Oh... They did, they already said explicitly that turning something into a vanity ship would require a normal version of the ship. I guess we're looking pretty stupid now, eh?

Wait, I meant to say YOU look pretty fucking stupid now.

Forgive me for not being completely abreast with every development. :roll: Got a link?

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Forgive me for not being completely abreast with every development. :roll: Got a link?
:facepalm:

http://eve-search.com/thread/1517440/author/CCP#14

Good to know you guys know shit about what you're talking about...

[Evelgrivion]

Forgive me for not being completely abreast with every development. :roll: Got a link?
:facepalm:

http://eve-search.com/thread/1517440/author/CCP#14

Good to know you guys know shit about what you're talking about...

Looks more like a tacit admission that improved art assets are going to be held behind an aurum pay-wall.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Looks more like a tacit admission that improved art assets are going to be held behind an aurum pay-wall.
You're trying to hard, it makes you look desperate.

[Evelgrivion]

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=732

Give this one a re-read.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=732

Give this one a re-read.
I was under the impression you were the one who didn't pay attention to CCP's statements...

The possibility of differentiated art assets for vanity branded ships does not in any way suggest those are 'improved' art assets, unless you consider pink ships an improvement. No suggestion of higher texture resolution, polygon count or anything else that would be in any way seen as 'unbalanced' in the visual aspect.

Straws, you, grasping.

[Cerbus]

[quote="t'amber":3eomgg5x]you are well aware that was one of the major reasons for my campaign last year and people are aware of this issue. Sadly most can't see reason and thus we have legions of faggots like Rasksomethingarother the Cat who fund their game with rl money because they're shit at the game.
Considering that my accounts can run a couple of decades on PLEX no problem, I fail to see how I fail at EVE.

Someone who takes his toys and goes home when he doesn't get what he wants shouldn't be telling me I fail. That pretty ineffectual stunt of yours just made everyone go lol-what? and the adults went onto extract a only-vanity-items concession from CCP.[/quote:3eomgg5x]

:obama:

[Evelgrivion]

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=732

Give this one a re-read.
I was under the impression you were the one who didn't pay attention to CCP's statements...

The possibility of differentiated art assets for vanity branded ships does not in any way suggest those are 'improved' art assets, unless you consider pink ships an improvement. No suggestion of higher texture resolution, polygon count or anything else that would be in any way seen as 'unbalanced' in the visual aspect.

Straws, you, grasping.

Improvement is subjective, so there's no merit to really arguing this point. It is indisputable that it sets a precedent for putting art assets behind pay walls, and thus places any change in ship design under the examining light of whether or not it should end up being a micro-transaction item or a free, full blown replacement of old assets.

To be perfectly frank, beyond that bad precedent, in and of itself, I can't find any fault with the gameplay impact which maddens me to no end. But will it stop there? Where is the line drawn? We get a lot of mileage out of the :psyccp: icon for a reason, and I've got a bad feeling about where this will end.

[Evelgrivion]

Noah Ward is the person in charge of developing the Micro Transactions aspects of Eve Online, and the way that guy thinks frightens me sometimes - in a "knows enough to be dangerous" sense. When the completely vanity oriented micro-transactions get a rapturous reception, what makes you think that CCP won't push that as a green light to non-vanity items?

It will inevitably start small; a few aurums for a little extra grid on a ship, perhaps a little more for a touch more CPU. That will evolve into bigger and bigger things over time. It would not shock me if, a year from now, CCP started putting the equivalent of deadspace modules under the Aurum microtransaction system, justifying it to themselves and others by having to sink a certain amount of ISK to access it as well, to "maintain the demand for more minerals and better space." It's a slippery slope, and it WILL end with non-vanity items if we don't watch out.

[dr axler]

I am seriously considering reactivating just to post on the forums.

what the fuck is wrong with me...

[Malcanis]

You place a rather different level of importance on people reading your posts than those people do themselves?

[dr axler]

You place a rather different level of importance on people reading your posts than those people do themselves?

maybe...probably

but its just that...they are wrong.
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[Cerbus]

You place a rather different level of importance on people reading your posts than those people do themselves?

maybe...probably

but its just that...they are wrong.
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

i lol'd

[Lana Torrin]

[quote="Evelgrivion":16iy7qbr]
Even Ebaying items is less of an evil than non-vanity micro-transactions are to eve online. As evil as RMT is, at least it doesn't let you acquire ships and ISK through the complete circumvention of game mechanics; someone still had to make it within the confines of Eve Online's rules. Mictrotransactions aren't bound by those rules.
That's an important point a lot of people seem to miss. It's really the core reason why MTs are so unsettling.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the issue in this. :)
What further confuses the issue is all of CCP's language on the matter promotes the fact that MT-spawned items are still tradable for ISK on the market. It seems like they're consciously trying to make people forget that MT-spawned items require real money from someone to come into being, unlike all other items in the game.

This exactly. I don't believe for a minute that CCP won't be introducing non-vanity items, special stuff for re-subbers that can be paid for with PLEX, and a whole slew of "services" both in and out of game. Why would they ignore such revenue opportunities? More importantly, why would their investors let them? A company with 600 employees has GOT to keep the milk from the cash cow flowing. Besides, I think after the initial excitement of Barbie in Space dress up, the novelty will wear off, and people will want something more meaningful for their additional investment in the game. Combine that with the fact that once people are used to the idea of microtransactions as part of EVE, its acceptance is likely to grow and opposition to non-vanity items diminish. I fully expect the promise made to CSM5 to be overturned within two years, no matter how well and strongly the current and future CSMs argue against it. I agree with Lana...CCP will probably build that bridge with something like a new hull ... same stats, so no in-game advantage but sufficient perceived value due to rarity that some folks will be frothing at the mouth to own it even if it is only available thru the in-game store. If players drink that koolaid, then there's no end to the variations on normal items that might be offered--for probably very little development investment.

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".[/quote:16iy7qbr]

Until the people paying real money for the exact same item start to demand a little more.

[Rakshasa The Cat]

Until the people paying real money for the exact same item start to demand a little more.
We also have ISK buyers demanding CCP put their wallets back in the positive, and botters demanding to be unbanned...

But I don't see you guys rage-quitting despite those slippery-slope demands.

[Malcanis]

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".

Until the people paying real money for the exact same item start to demand a little more.

Well what can I say? The CSM and the playerbase in general couldn't possibly make it any clearer than they already have to CCP that this would be a bad idea. CCP themselves have said that they're going the "vanity only" route. They've made the items tradeable so that even people who dont want to MT have a valid route to get these items (no "real money" wall for art assets).

"What if CCP suddenly start selling soul-bound deadspace weapons modules for straight up dollah?"

Well yeah that would be pretty bad. It would be awful, actually. But given that there's no real indication that they're about to do so other than the fact we like to say :psyccp: a lot, we might as well ask "What if CCp suddenly convert TQ to run on a kitten-powered furnace? Then every time we logged in, we'd literally be burning kittens :cry: ".

In short, let's save the ragequit and emo for when it happens. There's not really anything more we need to do right now; it's all been done and done as throughly as it could be. I mean shit, T'amber quit. If that doesn't persuade CCP what a bad idea non-vanity MT are, then what could?

[Rakshasa The Cat]

In short, let's save the ragequit and emo for when it happens. There's not really anything more we need to do right now; it's all been done and done as throughly as it could be. I mean shit, T'amber quit. If that doesn't persuade CCP what a bad idea non-vanity MT are, then what could?
T'Amber could have gone the self-immolation route....

I'd bring kittens to see that!

[Lana Torrin]

[quote="Lana Torrin":29b4rshd]Until the people paying real money for the exact same item start to demand a little more.
We also have ISK buyers demanding CCP put their wallets back in the positive, and botters demanding to be unbanned...

But I don't see you guys rage-quitting despite those slippery-slope demands.[/quote:29b4rshd]

CCP gains nothing from giving in to those demands, and it has spent the last several years backing its self in to a corner where it could never publicly do any of those things. MT however is not one of those great evils.

So we shall take the following scenario. When released Incarna is a financial success for CCP. The amount of money invested in it is quickly paid off by people buying dresses and hats and all looks great. The next major release comes with ship upgrades and more stuff to buy and for a time it too succeeds and eventually also breaks even or makes a profit, but sales of virtual items are on the decline as all of the people that want to buy something already have and people aren't flying their new shiny ships around for fear of getting them blown up (possibly after some very high profile massive ganks like with PLEXs when they were first allowed off station). CCP starts to read its own forums again (this is always a bad idea) and sees the massive amount of people crying out for an extra mid slot on the Retribution.. CCP can either A, try and sell more hats and skirts to a market that is already drying up, or B, sell you a 2 mid slot Retribution conversion kit for $5 a pop. (Failing the Retribution insert a similar cry for 90% of the ships out there)

This is where I got my 18 month figure.

[Lana Torrin]

Well what can I say? The CSM and the playerbase in general couldn't possibly make it any clearer than they already have to CCP that this would be a bad idea.

The previous CSM did, the player base not so much.. I haven't been paying enough attention to the new CSM to really know their position on this, but this wont be the CSM that has to deal with it properly, the next one will be.

I remember several member of the player base demanding very vocally that remaps for MT be reinstated.


CCP themselves have said that they're going the "vanity only" route. They've made the items tradeable so that even people who dont want to MT have a valid route to get these items (no "real money" wall for art assets).

CCP say a lot of things and there is one thing you should have learnt by now. CCP is not 1 person with 1 idea and it is in no way unified in its thinking. What one arm of CCP says today another arm might decide to go ahead and do next year because the market changed as do the people working at CCP.


In short, let's save the ragequit and emo for when it happens.
By then it will be too late and emo rage quit will be the only option. As stated previously, I actually don't want to quit this game.


There's not really anything more we need to do right now; it's all been done and done as throughly as it could be. I mean shit, T'amber quit. If that doesn't persuade CCP what a bad idea non-vanity MT are, then what could?
Continued pressure to not do this over a prolonged period of time. Letting up will only give the people that want to do this inside CCP the ammunition to do it. (and there ARE people inside CCP that want to do this)

[Mike deVoid]

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".

Until the people paying real money for the exact same item start to demand a little more.

Well what can I say? The CSM and the playerbase in general couldn't possibly make it any clearer than they already have to CCP that this would be a bad idea. CCP themselves have said that they're going the "vanity only" route. They've made the items tradeable so that even people who dont want to MT have a valid route to get these items (no "real money" wall for art assets).

"What if CCP suddenly start selling soul-bound deadspace weapons modules for straight up dollah?"

Well yeah that would be pretty bad. It would be awful, actually. But given that there's no real indication that they're about to do so other than the fact we like to say :psyccp: a lot, we might as well ask "What if CCp suddenly convert TQ to run on a kitten-powered furnace? Then every time we logged in, we'd literally be burning kittens :cry: ".

In short, let's save the ragequit and emo for when it happens. There's not really anything more we need to do right now; it's all been done and done as throughly as it could be. I mean shit, T'amber quit. If that doesn't persuade CCP what a bad idea non-vanity MT are, then what could?

[Cerbus]

A custom hull/skin with the same stats seems like very definition of a "vanity item".

Until the people paying real money for the exact same item start to demand a little more.

Well what can I say? The CSM and the playerbase in general couldn't possibly make it any clearer than they already have to CCP that this would be a bad idea. CCP themselves have said that they're going the "vanity only" route. They've made the items tradeable so that even people who dont want to MT have a valid route to get these items (no "real money" wall for art assets).

"What if CCP suddenly start selling soul-bound deadspace weapons modules for straight up dollah?"

Well yeah that would be pretty bad. It would be awful, actually. But given that there's no real indication that they're about to do so other than the fact we like to say :psyccp: a lot, we might as well ask "What if CCp suddenly convert TQ to run on a kitten-powered furnace? Then every time we logged in, we'd literally be burning kittens :cry: ".

In short, let's save the ragequit and emo for when it happens. There's not really anything more we need to do right now; it's all been done and done as throughly as it could be. I mean shit, T'amber quit. If that doesn't persuade CCP what a bad idea non-vanity MT are, then what could?

lol



Even if all I did was make people aware of the problem or get a flaky promise atleast I tried, what did you try do about it? I'm not going to just stick my arse in the air and invite a ginger pubed dick in , and neither should you. On the other hand, ranting and raving about getting butt raped by CCP is as pointless as it is inevitable.

[Aurora148]

I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

[Cerbus]

I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

[Bartholomeus Crane]

Like I said in the other thread (of many), this is a direct versus indirect incentive thing.

MT is real money now, in the bank, and easy measurable. That's the direct incentive to reinforce this 'easily measured' success (if it is that, which CCP, with the :metrics: will undoubtedly see it as, no matter what it is really). Accountants and money people love this shit.

But MT drives players away. Either existing players, or potential new players who are put off by this. This is the indirect incentive against having MT. But, that's money or revenue that has never been in the bank, or offset by other clearly measurable money in the back. All in all, it is much more difficult to measure. And Accountants and money people don't like this shit anyway.

Now, to balance direct and indirect incentives takes intelligence and thought. Does that sound like CCP to you? No, ofcourse it doesn't. It took the previous CSM a massive amount of effort to drum it into CCP's head what this meant. It almost seemed like they weren't clued into this at all when all this first broke.

Slippery slope, or no slippery slope. The accountants will always be arguing for more of this shit, and couldn't care less if this affects the game at all. It is money in the bank. If MT does badly, they'll argue for better items for it to better. If it does well, they'll argue that they should reinforce success and argue for better items on that basis. The only reason why this might, and I do mean might, get abandoned is when MT turns out an abysmal failure for CCP. And we all know this is never going to happen, because there are always morons out there that buy this shit (Seriously, skirts are vanity items now? How about offering a complete game CCP?), and :metrics: will take care of the rest.

And please, don't come with the 'MT allows CCP to do things it can't now do' argument. Total bollox. You know what else would allow CCP to do things it can't now do? Not sinking a shitload of revenue gained from EVE into Dust and WoD. Two games I have no interest in playing, will never have an interest in playing. Because that's the big elephant in the room at CCP. They've been neglecting EVE for years now and have diverted a lot of the resources on those two 'adventures' while the players who indirectly finance all that nonsense have been left with the dregs and fucking PI. EVE wouldn't need MT 'to do things' if the revenue for EVE was spend efficiently and effectively on 'doing things with' it. The game would have been a lot better and subscription numbers a lot higher than they are now. Want to develop another game? How about finding the money to do so first, and separately from it? This MT in EVE is nothing more than a poor excuse for leeching of even more money from a game CCP has partially abandoned already.

MT is crap, and I won't spend a single penny on it. Not even on monocles and tophats. And that's saying something. Because I do actually have a monocle and tophat IRL!

[Bartholomeus Crane]

I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

Why am I not surprised?

[Lancehot]

So would CCP be best off taking the Entropia Universe/2nd Life approach of allowing the exchange of virtual goods/currency for real currencies betwen players? Taking a healthy commission for themselves, of course.

[Joshua Foiritain]

So would CCP be best off taking the Entropia Universe/2nd Life approach of allowing the exchange of virtual goods/currency for real currencies betwen players? Taking a healthy commission for themselves, of course.
Thats an even worse idea :psyduck: At least under the current system those of us that are poor can buy the MT stuff from other players with isk.

[Devec]

So would CCP be best off taking the Entropia Universe/2nd Life approach of allowing the exchange of virtual goods/currency for real currencies betwen players? Taking a healthy commission for themselves, of course.

Those games are so terrible (especially entropia) you are basically condemned to do slave work unless you send a pretty penny to the company.

[Jelek Coro]

So would CCP be best off taking the Entropia Universe/2nd Life approach of allowing the exchange of virtual goods/currency for real currencies betwen players? Taking a healthy commission for themselves, of course.

One good reason why this would not happen - Entropia has a banking licence.

Not a chance CCP being in Iceland would be given one (plus the checks and balances they would need) :)

[Aurora148]

[quote=Aurora148]I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

Why am I not surprised?[/quote:1aavcqr0]

because it actually makes sense?

[Tajidan]

[quote=Aurora148]I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

Why am I not surprised?

because it actually makes sense?[/quote:1ip1cqz9]

sense as in the dumbest shit i've ever heard

[Cerbus]

[quote=Aurora148]I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

Why am I not surprised?

because it actually makes sense?

sense as in the dumbest shit i've ever heard[/quote:wv519q92]

do you think they'll mind if we make a new thread to talk about it?

@aurora148, :notsureifserious:

[erichkknaar]

So we shall take the following scenario. When released Incarna is a financial success for CCP. The amount of money invested in it is quickly paid off by people buying dresses and hats and all looks great. The next major release comes with WoD, which runs on the same graphics engine, now given a major set of stress testing by the Eve player base. It's got the potential to be waaay more popular than Eve, because of sparkley vampires and CCP could exponentially increase dress derived income by getting it out the door.

FTFY.

[gert]

So we shall take the following scenario. When released Incarna is a financial success for CCP. The amount of money invested in it is quickly paid off by people buying dresses and hats and all looks great. The next major release comes with WoD, which runs on the same graphics engine, now given a major set of stress testing by the Eve player base. It's got the potential to be waaay more popular than Eve, because of sparkley vampires and CCP could exponentially increase dress derived income by getting it out the door.

Looking at all the other MMOs that are forced to go free-to-play/supported-by-microtransactions, I'd rate CCPs chances of making WoD working on a subscription model somewhere about 5%. Incarna in EVE is indeed the testbed for the WoD subscription model.

Let's just hope they play it smart enough not to screw up the idiosyncratic features that currently make EVE what it is.

[Aurora148]

[quote="t'amber":2o2pua0h][quote=Aurora148]I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

Why am I not surprised?

because it actually makes sense?

sense as in the dumbest shit i've ever heard[/quote:2o2pua0h]

do you think they'll mind if we make a new thread to talk about it?

@aurora148, :notsureifserious:[/quote:2o2pua0h]

seriously how is it bad?

its SP they would have had anyway if they had been subscribed and they are paying the same (or more vs plex players) as everyone else did for their sp. If some dude hasn't played since 2003 and wants to pay $2400 for 130m sp then power to him and his stupid wallet.

[RoemySchneider]

[quote="t'amber":javrfriy][quote=Aurora148]I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

Why am I not surprised?

because it actually makes sense?

sense as in the dumbest shit i've ever heard

do you think they'll mind if we make a new thread to talk about it?

@aurora148, :notsureifserious:[/quote:javrfriy]

seriously how is it bad?

its SP they would have had anyway if they had been subscribed and they are paying the same (or more vs plex players) as everyone else did for their sp. If some dude hasn't played since 2003 and wants to pay $2400 for 130m sp then power to him and his stupid wallet.[/quote:javrfriy]
hummm that'd be only 80bil isk (if 160x PLEX were 500mil each) or ~240 days of belt-botting. or 4 bots for 2 months.

question still remains: who's going to supply those 160x PLEX or 80x GTC...? CCP?
subsidizing bots since 2011...?
'cause non-cheaters are already blowing their additional (and regular) PLEX on clothes and stuff...

[Tsubutai]

seriously how is it bad?
Because people haven't just invested ISK/RL cash into existing high-SP characters, they've also invested time, which is far more valuable than ISK (and arguably more so than the RL money as well, at least for the reasonably affluent). Allowing people to buy SP would make it possible to sidestep that investment, cheapening existing high-SP characters and generally shitting on the perceived value of being a long-term customer.

[Aurora148]

[quote="Bartholomeus Crane":15iaxxmc][quote="t'amber":15iaxxmc][quote="Aurora148":15iaxxmc]I just want to buy SP

http://epix.blueinkalchemy.com/images/make-it-so.gif

I was told that this was on the planning board albiet in an indirect way; Players who'd had accounts that had been unsubscribed would be offered the oppurtunity to buy the sp they'd missed while unsubscribed for the cost of the subscription missed.

i can almost hear the servers straining with the stress of all the threadnoughts that mechanic would have created

Why am I not surprised?

because it actually makes sense?

sense as in the dumbest shit i've ever heard

do you think they'll mind if we make a new thread to talk about it?

@aurora148, :notsureifserious:[/quote:15iaxxmc]

seriously how is it bad?

its SP they would have had anyway if they had been subscribed and they are paying the same (or more vs plex players) as everyone else did for their sp. If some dude hasn't played since 2003 and wants to pay $2400 for 130m sp then power to him and his stupid wallet.[/quote:15iaxxmc]
hummm that'd be only 80bil isk (if 160x PLEX were 500mil each) or ~240 days of belt-botting. or 4 bots for 2 months.

question still remains: who's going to supply those 160x PLEX or 80x GTC...? CCP?
subsidizing bots since 2011...?
'cause non-cheaters are already blowing their additional (and regular) PLEX on clothes and stuff...[/quote:15iaxxmc]

when one refers to "paying", i assume it means with real money.

[Aurora148]

seriously how is it bad?
Because people haven't just invested ISK/RL cash into existing high-SP characters, they've also invested time, which is far more valuable than ISK (and arguably more so than the RL money as well, at least for the reasonably affluent). Allowing people to buy SP would make it possible to sidestep that investment, cheapening existing high-SP characters and generally shitting on the perceived value of being a long-term customer.

you can already do this on ebay, or by buying a char using the legit isk method.

I know plenty of people who have bought characters (isk or ebay) with double the SP of their mains, but it doesn't make me feel cheated because they didn't skill it up themselves.

[Lancehot]

Personally, I don't consider the time I give to eve to have any real value. Otherwise I wouldn't waste it so.

[Tsubutai]

I know plenty of people who have bought characters (isk or ebay) with double the SP of their mains, but it doesn't make me feel cheated because they didn't skill it up themselves.
The buyer didn't, but someone did.

[noobcake]

you can already do this on ebay, or by buying a char using the legit isk method.

I know plenty of people who have bought characters (isk or ebay) with double the SP of their mains, but it doesn't make me feel cheated because they didn't skill it up themselves.

the point is that SOMEONE at SOME POINT had to invest the time into that 95m SP character. Which is why these characters sell for the amounts of isk they do on the legit forums. Allowing direct purchase of skillpoints makes it so players can circumvent that mechanic. This weakens the market for existing 100m SP characters in ways you cant even imagine...

It's a shame youre a bad troll...

[Aurora148]

you can already do this on ebay, or by buying a char using the legit isk method.

I know plenty of people who have bought characters (isk or ebay) with double the SP of their mains, but it doesn't make me feel cheated because they didn't skill it up themselves.

the point is that SOMEONE at SOME POINT had to invest the time into that 95m SP character. Which is why these characters sell for the amounts of isk they do on the legit forums. Allowing direct purchase of skillpoints makes it so players can circumvent that mechanic. This weakens the market for existing 100m SP characters in ways you cant even imagine...

It's a shame youre a bad troll...

100m sp characters have been struggling to get 20b+ for a while, the market simply isn't there when someone can get a character with 50m sp and supercarrier/titan capability for around 15b. All that extra time actually becomes a hindrance unless you get someone willing to throw down all that isk for essentially the right to an epeen stroking eveboard page.

[Evelgrivion]

The Wave Of The Future

http://i.imgur.com/yzAD9.png

I have no doubt that it will end here if we let it.

[Zoidberg]

From the other thread: (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=81321#p81321)

But, if you really feel the need to do something about this yourself, perhaps because you feel that all your complaint letters have been ignored, why don't you do what I will do when those vanity items come out: don't bloody buy them! Perhaps others will in droves, but perhaps my little contribution will snowball into something that will get noticed. Although probably not.
Do you think then that it might help to make an organized effort to convince regular EVE players not to buy this tripe? Perhaps encourage people to view vanity item "enhanced" portraits as a mark of virtual shame. I'm no good with any image design software, but what about a series of modified EVE portraits with the more egregious examples of silly TF2 hats attached to the characters, all with the subtitle EVE: Incarna underneath?

[noobcake]

you can already do this on ebay, or by buying a char using the legit isk method.

I know plenty of people who have bought characters (isk or ebay) with double the SP of their mains, but it doesn't make me feel cheated because they didn't skill it up themselves.

the point is that SOMEONE at SOME POINT had to invest the time into that 95m SP character. Which is why these characters sell for the amounts of isk they do on the legit forums. Allowing direct purchase of skillpoints makes it so players can circumvent that mechanic. This weakens the market for existing 100m SP characters in ways you cant even imagine...

It's a shame youre a bad troll...

100m sp characters have been struggling to get 20b+ for a while, the market simply isn't there when someone can get a character with 50m sp and supercarrier/titan capability for around 15b. All that extra time actually becomes a hindrance unless you get someone willing to throw down all that isk for essentially the right to an epeen stroking eveboard page.

way to work in the use of an arbitrary number. Characters PERIOD garner so much isk right now because there is a time investment made into the character...thats the point. You;re horribly bad at this :D