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Jurskjeld
May 23 2011, 09:26:26 PM
Hawkey. I am going to need to build a computer. I am interested in acquiring one of the i7 processors (~950 is 200 in Norway), along with a GT(X?) 460 (150). I need to be able to run Arma3 comfortably (http://www.bistudio.com/index.php/english/games/arma3).

I've been offered an old kit (http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=323200) for a reduced price. Now, as I am an idiot, perhaps one of you helpful souls can tell me if either of the aforementioned components would dislike any of the following?

485612 - Cooler Master Elite 310 Black/Silver Fans: 1x 120mm Rear, ATX, mATX, 2x USB, 1x Audio, 17 dBA
601837 - Chieftec Nitro Series BPS-550C 550W PSU, ATX 12V V2.3, 80 Plus Bronze, Modular, 2x 6+2pin PCIe, 6x SATA,140mm Fan
488305 - AMD Athlon II X2 250, 3,0Ghz, AM3, 2MB, 65W, Boxed
363359 - Crucial DDR3 1333MHz 4GB KIT, CL9, Kit w/two matched DDR3 2GB, 240pin
499637 - ASUS M4A78LT-M LE, Socket-AM3 mATX, AMD760G+SB710, DDR3, 1xPCIe(2.0)x16, GbLAN, VGA, DVI
622350 - Sapphire Radeon HD 5770 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, DVI-I, native-HDMI, DisplayPort, Lite-Retail
620189 - Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB, SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3.0), 16MB, 7200RPM

I am assuming the RAM is OK. The mobo (ASUS M4A78LT-M) looks like it might have to go, but I honestly wouldn't be able to tell. The main thing is getting a GTX460 for the future, then I can disembowel the computer if it's needed. Perhaps, upon winning the lottery, 120GB SSD? Would I be able to fit that?

For reference, the kit will cost me 300.


Yours retardedly,
Jursk

EntroX
May 23 2011, 09:45:25 PM
how much are you willing to spend?, also you might want to check rya's thread unless you are working on a very specific budget.

Jurskjeld
May 23 2011, 10:25:59 PM
how much are you willing to spend?, also you might want to check rya's thread unless you are working on a very specific budget.
I am chiefly looking for hardware incompatibilities, and with problems in the future regarding the motherboard. I checked Rya's, but he did not mention the GT460 there at all.

My budget is in the region of 500. No real limit exists, however; if someone here sells me an idea beyond that price, I might buy the hardware. All I'd like is to run Arma3 in the region of 30+ FPS (I hardly see 50+ FPS on my desktop ;)) and I'm a happy camper.

EntroX
May 23 2011, 11:07:59 PM
its fairly hard to recommend a build for a game that is planned for a summer 2012 release :psyduck:

that computer is not that great for long term upgrades - you might want to hop on a i5 or go balls out like i did if you like to build computers for 3-5 year terms :V (maybe about 650 BRITDOLLA converting the USD, i think i built my comp for around $850-950?)

Verizana
May 24 2011, 12:21:46 AM
all the components you listed on that computer are very outdated except for the memory, and you are going to make a pc for a game that isn't out until 2012?

a 460gtx was not mentioned in the ryas build guide is because a AMD 6850 is the equivilent, most of the time even better. Also you make it sound like the 460gtx is like the best graphics card ever made and will last you forever. It is already getting outdated with the 560gtx out a while ago. My advice at the moment is to wait until the game comes out, if you want to spend money now buy a monitor because thats the best investment. amd's 7000 series gpu's, Sandy bridge-E with its quad channel memory goodness and lots more are coming near the end of 2011 / early 2012.

Tr;dl: dont buy anything except the mid range intel or high end intel builds in the ryas guide unless you are very desperate and low on cash.

Raine Woot
May 24 2011, 08:44:28 AM
what Veri said tbh, unless you need/really want a new computer for something NOW it's better to wait longer and get more bang for the buck and a better idea of what you'll actually need.

In case you're dead set on putting an i7 in that thing, you'll need a new mobo for it, but otherwise everything will be good (and it'll certainly run arma 3, no game comes out that needs a PC less than a year old to run)

fng
May 24 2011, 05:45:38 PM
how much are you willing to spend?, also you might want to check rya's thread unless you are working on a very specific budget.
I am chiefly looking for hardware incompatibilities, and with problems in the future regarding the motherboard. I checked Rya's, but he did not mention the GT460 there at all.

My budget is in the region of 500. No real limit exists, however; if someone here sells me an idea beyond that price, I might buy the hardware. All I'd like is to run Arma3 in the region of 30+ FPS (I hardly see 50+ FPS on my desktop ;)) and I'm a happy camper.
Yes he did viewtopic.php?f=7&t=580 (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=580)

Hast
May 24 2011, 06:58:27 PM
its fairly hard to recommend a build for a game that is planned for a summer 2012 release :psyduck:

that computer is not that great for long term upgrades - you might want to hop on a i5 or go balls out like i did if you like to build computers for 3-5 year terms :V (maybe about 650 BRITDOLLA converting the USD, i think i built my comp for around $850-950?)

also due to lolnorway, 650 BRITDOLLA gets you about 500's worth of hardware :/

SteeleResolve
May 24 2011, 07:13:01 PM
I can vouch for the 5770, it's a bit of a bargain tbh mate. On 1680 x 1050 res at least.

EntroX
May 24 2011, 07:38:45 PM
its fairly hard to recommend a build for a game that is planned for a summer 2012 release :psyduck:

that computer is not that great for long term upgrades - you might want to hop on a i5 or go balls out like i did if you like to build computers for 3-5 year terms :V (maybe about 650 BRITDOLLA converting the USD, i think i built my comp for around $850-950?)

also due to lolnorway, 650 BRITDOLLA gets you about 500's worth of hardware :/

lol'in

Jurskjeld
May 25 2011, 05:36:49 PM
Going by the thread, and investing in a "temporary" AMD processor instead of Intel, with a reasonable 560 GTX in place of a 460, I've come a bit closer to the components I need. What I need now is some advice on what limitations I face when using AMD, or if room for 4x memory is too much on the motherboard, considering I'm starting with 2x4. Motherboard in general, actually.


AMD Phenom II X6 3.3GHz Six Core -- 125 // Same as Ryas.

GIGABYTE GA-870A-UD3 AM3 /w SATA 6Gb, USB 3.0 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128443) -- 81 // Same as Ryas. This can run the 6-core AMD, right? Newegg reviews are very mixed. Is 1333MHz memory something to avoid? I've had problems with mobos before, and all I really want is something that doesn't effing break on me.

560 GTX Cuda -- 200 // Ryas makes a point of the 550 performing worse than a 460. Looking at saving 60 by going for 460.

Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333MHz 8GB CL9 (2x4) -- 65 // Or Corsair 1600MHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145345), if mobo disagrees with 1333? -- 75

Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply -- 70 // Same as Ryas.

Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB -- 31 // May purchase SSD in the future, but for now it seems sane to reduce the budget.

Casing
Who the fuck knows. ~40-50.

Software
Which bloody Win7 do I need? -- far too fucking much //
[TMA] Soundcards.

Total = mother fucking. Region of 572. Guess it's not that bad - though I guess Win7 and a decent tower puts a small brickload on top of that.


(Ran a test against a German site. What costs 700 euro in Norway would cost 650 in Germany. Not bothered to compare to UK, much less US; might :cut: )

Ryas Nia
May 25 2011, 05:46:56 PM
that looks better, but i have to ask... why buy a cpu/mobo if its just temporary anyway your already spending enough on thoes parts to just get an i5-2500k and mobo which will do what you need it to do.

Jurskjeld
May 25 2011, 05:53:34 PM
that looks better, but i have to ask... why buy a cpu/mobo if its just temporary anyway your already spending enough on thoes parts to just get an i5-2500k and mobo which will do what you need it to do.
Sorry, I shouldn't have written "temporary". It's temporary in the sense that as I perceive it, Intel is overpriced as shit. However I'm certain they'll bring something on the market very soon that makes the X6 look a bit pale. So, temporary in the sense of a generation gap being imminent.

Ryas Nia
May 25 2011, 05:58:25 PM
in price to performance thats not really the case, intel is IMO better priced unless you run heavily multi threaded applications

edit// going on just Anandtech's price performance you get...

i5-2500k: 265 points for $225
X6 1100BE: 204 Points for $200

X6 performs better at rendering/Photoshop with multi core code paths
i5 performs better at everything else for less heat/power/noise

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/203?vs=288

Jurskjeld
May 25 2011, 11:03:24 PM
In that regard would you recommend the MSI P67A-C43 for mobo? Then I can (and must) downgrade RAM to 1333.
I don't know if I'll ever need to use more than one graphics card, but if I do, must they both have the same bus bandwidth, ie identical PCI slots? Seeing as the C43 only has 1x 2.0 x16, Either way I'm pretty convinced that if I save on the mobo and RAM, I'll get the 560 :D

I can get an i5 2500 and an i5 2500K for the same price. More letters = better? Apparently there's no or limited overclocking a -K, but fuck if I'll touch the clock speed before I get some wicked cooling going. Just wondering because the K is USD 20 more on Newegg.

Also, how the f*** do you pick between all the clocked-up GPUs?

In the final verdict, on the much-rumoured 'bottleneck', with i5 2500, MSI P67A-C43, and GTX 560 Cuda, is there going to be one?

Loganbacca
May 26 2011, 06:38:22 AM
1333 RAM: chances are running with 1600 probably wont give you much extra performance anyway. At the end of the day you'll probably find you can overclock your 1333 to 1600 quite easily anyway.

Dual GFX mobo: you'll need a mobo that has two PCIe slots that can both run in at least x8 mode, and is certified for SLI/Crossfire, and they tend to come with a price premium. So in other words, don't bother, just get a better gfx card.

i5 non-K vs K: The only difference between the two is the K variant is multiplier unlocked. No reason not to get the K, they overclock really nicely, don't worry about touching the clock speed, just increase the multiplier. It'll very easily go up to 4GHz on minimal cooling, they run pretty cold.

OC'd GPUs: probably just look for a good clock-price ratio, and get one from a good partner, i.e. ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, etc.

Bottleneck: haven't heard of one

kzig
May 26 2011, 07:01:32 AM
Also, how the f*** do you pick between all the clocked-up GPUs?

All else being equal, look for the one with the longest and most permissive warranty 8-)

Jurskjeld
May 26 2011, 11:56:04 AM
The compensation for high prices is an astonishing consumer rights protection. Most stuff will be warranted out the ass.

I went for what I think was the MSI GTX at the end, despite others with even better performance. Think MSI's 880MHZ/4.2 scored a touch inferior to the ASUS, but price and stock available are directing my hand atm. Currently looking at prices. Will need to cut into my savings for this one. :cut:


One important question: Will the motherboard fit with the HAF 912? 912 says USB 2 only - wondering if that will clash with the MSI P67A-C45 B3 which has USB3. But in that event, it's not a physical obstruction that makes the board incompatible with the tower, is it?

Ryas Nia
May 26 2011, 04:28:45 PM
The compensation for high prices is an astonishing consumer rights protection. Most stuff will be warranted out the ass.

I went for what I think was the MSI GTX at the end, despite others with even better performance. Think MSI's 880MHZ/4.2 scored a touch inferior to the ASUS, but price and stock available are directing my hand atm. Currently looking at prices. Will need to cut into my savings for this one. :cut:


One important question: Will the motherboard fit with the HAF 912? 912 says USB 2 only - wondering if that will clash with the MSI P67A-C45 B3 which has USB3. But in that event, it's not a physical obstruction that makes the board incompatible with the tower, is it?

Your USB 2.0 front panel connectors will not work with the USB 3.0, but I believe that the USB 3.0 is on the back of the motherboard and not a header for front panel connectors.

Jurskjeld
June 1 2011, 03:01:47 PM
YESS my computer parts are here!
Only 1x fan on the tower, small one. Boxed CPU, but will this be enough? Must I get another fan? I'll ofc get temperature readings when I get it built tomorrow, but just wondering if it's a certain purchase that I'll need to make.

Raine Woot
June 1 2011, 04:48:53 PM
hard to know. Since the fans are there to keeps temps comfortable, probably best to build it and see what components are good / need more air flow. Often the GPU and PSU blow right out the back so it's p. much just cpu and HDDs that need a case fan blowing/drawing air over them, though an extra one for the GPU never hurt.

Jurskjeld
June 2 2011, 09:05:11 AM
FUck I touched the thermal paste. Nice little fingerprint dent on the cooler's paste. Ff.
Yeah, the second (but still small) fan was a bit hidden from me slightly pissed eyes. It's there.

Traxio Nacho
June 2 2011, 09:38:52 AM
YESS my computer parts are here!
Only 1x fan on the tower, small one. Boxed CPU, but will this be enough? Must I get another fan? I'll ofc get temperature readings when I get it built tomorrow, but just wondering if it's a certain purchase that I'll need to make.

Depends how hot it gets in the room the PC is going in, would recommend at least another 120mm fan.

First PC I built someone told me there is sometimes a plastic film on the bottom of the CPU heatsink that you need to take off, so I touched the shiny looking grey bit and realised it was just thermal paste :D Left a lovely finger print in it too.

Jurskjeld
June 2 2011, 11:19:11 AM
SATA 3.0 cable is apparently not to be bent at 90 degree angle.

WELL HOW THE FUCK

What kind of 90 degree angle?! Can I bend it in a 180 degree angle? Can I make a really long bend, like circular (yes ofc)? That's the shittiest instruction in the history of the world!

OH WAIT do they mean on the flat axis??

Ryas Nia
June 2 2011, 01:03:10 PM
SATA 3.0 cable is apparently not to be bent at 90 degree angle.

WELL HOW THE FUCK

What kind of 90 degree angle?! Can I bend it in a 180 degree angle? Can I make a really long bend, like circular (yes ofc)? That's the shittiest instruction in the history of the world!

OH WAIT do they mean on the flat axis??

No idea what you mean can you get a picture?


FUck I touched the thermal paste. Nice little fingerprint dent on the cooler's paste. Ff.
Yeah, the second (but still small) fan was a bit hidden from me slightly pissed eyes. It's there.

Dont worry it will be ok....

Jurskjeld
June 2 2011, 01:49:46 PM
Not worried about the paste.

Most things are looking good, save for some fucked pins in the power supply's first 4-pin connector. They're numbered 12-13-14, you reckon I can disregard no.12 and plug fans into 13 and 14? Yes, they are arranged (PS)====12==13==14==15 (floppy connector). I anticipate a no, so will try to creatively persuade the pin socket thing into place.
edit: Wrestled them into place.

Only 4x pins for CPU power supply. Does that mean 8x pins (full potential for the motherboard) would have improved performance?

Can both RAM sticks be in during initial startup?

I have the Sony Optiarc AD-5260S, but my remaining SATA cable is a 6 GB/s thing. No fuzz, right? Manual for MB doesn't go into detail on the connector placement, beyond assigning 1-2 as 6GB capable, 3-6 as 3GB. The question I have is, does it matter where I connect a 6GB cable if it's backwards compatible (pending on your answer to the above)?

Verizana
June 2 2011, 07:19:31 PM
1: Can both RAM sticks be in during initial startup?

2: I have the Sony Optiarc AD-5260S, but my remaining SATA cable is a 6 GB/s thing. No fuzz, right? Manual for MB doesn't go into detail on the connector placement, beyond assigning 1-2 as 6GB capable, 3-6 as 3GB. The question I have is, does it matter where I connect a 6GB cable if it's backwards compatible (pending on your answer to the above)?

1: Yes

2: There is no such thing as a sata6gb/s cable, only a sata cable. The cables for sata3Gb/s and sata6Gb/s are the same.

Jurskjeld
June 2 2011, 08:42:39 PM
Great thank-yous to all who've replied. Thanks to you I have a sterling system up and running. Bit on the noisy side and I need another fan, but otherwise ace.

It is worth mentioning (perhaps for Ryas' sake) that the MSI GTX 560 Ti is a bit on the big side. So big, it was a harrowing experience to get into the HAF 912 on a P67A-C45 motherboard. Absolutely no room left after half an hour of crying and banging, but it finally fit. Many would've given up before me, is all I can say.

Once again, cheers.

balistic void
June 3 2011, 09:44:09 AM
Same with radeon 6970. Barely fit into storm scout case, harrowing indeed :D

fng
June 3 2011, 10:12:41 AM
Only 4x pins for CPU power supply. Does that mean 8x pins (full potential for the motherboard) would have improved performance?
Seems like you should have:

2x 4/8pin ATX12V

Jurskjeld
June 3 2011, 12:23:04 PM
Yeah, you can mount either 4 or 8 pins. Currently mounted 4 pins: The PS comes with 2x 4-pin, but one of them doesn't fit. MB manual doesn't specify, but it's obvious there's a choice since the bottom 4 pins have a small lid on them. Just wondering if the actual performance goes up.

chadsexington
June 3 2011, 12:36:35 PM
that looks better, but i have to ask... why buy a cpu/mobo if its just temporary anyway your already spending enough on thoes parts to just get an i5-2500k and mobo which will do what you need it to do.


This - don't bother with an i7 unless you're overclocking. i5-2500k is a great chip and several hundred less than an i7.

Tzar
June 8 2011, 01:44:55 PM
6850 better than 460 why not?

walrus
June 9 2011, 03:03:31 AM
when it comes to bending cables, try to avoid sharper bends than a decent sized coin.

Jason Marshall
June 9 2011, 04:32:20 AM
fuck me i forgot thermal paste.