Starcraft 2 PLAAGUUUUUU

[Handon Guild]

Player list

EU:
Mitthrawn - TakeshiK : 185
Gobbins - Gobbins : 243
Ardrax Makbaoth - YRQ : 703
Jocelyn Fernos - orecus : 968
Waagaa - Waagaa : 938
Goldsnake - Goldsnake : 954
Kalorn - Izmak : 651
Fuzuli - Zal : 380
Minas - Minas : 115
Aramendel - Psykhe : 924
dynamicaL - Kraken : 697
Cerzi - Cerzi : 228
Lumy - Abe : 672
TroN - TroN : 230 - Steam: srtron
Oi-Ogron - Bones : 830
Rosur - Rosur : 223
Dinique - Phenom : 831
Hatepeace Lovewar - Hatepeace : 686
Meluena - Keukeu : 801
Euriti - Euriti : 101 - Eurudin
Kazang - Kazang : 845
Thedirtypaw - Thedirtypaw : 829
Morax Marbas - Morax : 864
Tyrehl - Nex : 664
hinch - hinch : 195

NA:
DevilDude - Psilent : 843
Gamesguy - Gamesguy : 772
Zoidberg - Gobias : 131 - tanks4ntn
Marcus Quo - Gilligan : 272
Hels - BLAHOrblah : 367 - Hels
Vortex - Mal : 954
Elipson - Ayato : 961
Kou Rien - Opacus : 152
JonMiller - Jon : 806 - mjona
Kaylana Skye - Dotus : 620
Elo - Eloknight : 521
Zumwalt - Zumwalt : 439
Helfix - Sonic : 735
Tai Paktu - Tai : 996
Hunter V - ChuckCranstn : 231
AntarisXenal - AntarisXenal : 608
WasahB - WasahB : 217
Alenar - Rumanev : Alenar : 947
Nicho Void - WildKarrde : 598
The Pie - Superbeast - 739
Helluin - Darkmatter : 282
Duun - Suhuy : DuunSuhuy : 846
Fortuk - Fortuk : graphk : 974
mobiusnm - mobiusnm : pruritus : 740
cmd - CARAM : 968 - CARAM
winterfell- winterfell : 255
Nyx Opet - Nyx : 790
Undertow Latheus - Beeblebrox : 901

APAC:
Toolivus - Tools : 407
Deadalus Dugalle - FallschirmPD : 974

[Djakku]

IMA FUNGAL GROWTH YO ASS

[RoemySchneider]

you're all 4-gate'ing all day every day, aren't you...

[hinch]

you're all 4-gate'ing all day every day, aren't you...

3 + fast expand + robo

[Morax Marbas]

SC2 guide on beating pro gamers:

Cast Hallucinate

[Djakku]

I really need some SC2 friends, Euro region, I suck though. (Bronze Silver ftw)

Anyone wanna do some 3v3's, 2v2's? even friendly 1v1's?
(I don't like to take 4v4's too seriously really)

Evilgasm #823 btw.

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1587878/1/Evilgasm/

EDIT: Also, I have notice that all out of game stats show as "not yet ranked" yet it is displayed ingame, is this some bug or delay with season 2? I do play sc2 without stats in mind, but it's just like... annoying... I wanna show off my bronze/silver league placements...

[DevilDude]

MOTHER CUNTING SHIT FUCKING DAMMIT!

I think SHC may be gone for good and I didn't notice in time to save the fucking ID listings, anyone want me to start a new one?

[donjehova]

I really need some SC2 friends, Euro region, I suck though. (Bronze Silver ftw)

Anyone wanna do some 3v3's, 2v2's? even friendly 1v1's?
(I don't like to take 4v4's too seriously really)

Evilgasm #823 btw.

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1587878/1/Evilgasm/

EDIT: Also, I have notice that all out of game stats show as "not yet ranked" yet it is displayed ingame, is this some bug or delay with season 2? I do play sc2 without stats in mind, but it's just like... annoying... I wanna show off my bronze/silver league placements...

Added you. Hoping for some friendly low level practice. Fucking new season balanced me into gold, when I was silver before + lost the placement match. Now i get raped every game i play

Btw Ingame BoxerSlayer #932
Anyone who wants practice games at a low level, feel free to add

[Gilligan]

Whoo, still smalltexting spoilers, new forums are amazing.

Sad about the TSL games today. 3-0 series aren't interesting, especially not when the two players I'm rooting for are on the losing side. Looking forward to QXC vs Adel tomorrow, should be some good games, and I will be amazed if it goes 3-0.

In other news, I keep trying to get practice partners without any luck at all.

So, do you play on the NA server? Do you want to get better? I'm in Masters, but I'll play with anyone Copper and up who wants to. Really just need more time in-game, and laddering is just too rage inducing for me to play that many games at once on.

Gilligan.272, or Tricky Gilligan on Steam, which is probably a better way of reaching me. Or you know, PM or something.

[Spaztick]

MOTHER CUNTING SHIT FUCKING DAMMIT!

I think SHC may be gone for good and I didn't notice in time to save the fucking ID listings, anyone want me to start a new one?
Googledocs to the rescue!

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... susD#gid=0 (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgNZlA_PjkNEdHduRm1yY2t5bElxbjlOZndnSzZLM FE&hl=en&authkey=CJzGsusD#gid=0)

[DevilDude]

MOTHER CUNTING SHIT FUCKING DAMMIT!

I think SHC may be gone for good and I didn't notice in time to save the fucking ID listings, anyone want me to start a new one?
Googledocs to the rescue!

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... susD#gid=0 (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgNZlA_PjkNEdHduRm1yY2t5bElxbjlOZndnSzZLM FE&hl=en&authkey=CJzGsusD#gid=0)
that is a good idea! (best since I don't have to do any work)

[donjehova]

Somthing is very wrong at bnet. Ive started winning some ladder games... The degeneration of the human race must be taking its toll finally

[Lorkin Desal]

SC2 guide on beating pro gamers:

Cast Hallucinate


Heh, I watched that match.

[Djakku]

I really need some SC2 friends, Euro region, I suck though. (Bronze Silver ftw)

Anyone wanna do some 3v3's, 2v2's? even friendly 1v1's?
(I don't like to take 4v4's too seriously really)

Evilgasm #823 btw.

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1587878/1/Evilgasm/

EDIT: Also, I have notice that all out of game stats show as "not yet ranked" yet it is displayed ingame, is this some bug or delay with season 2? I do play sc2 without stats in mind, but it's just like... annoying... I wanna show off my bronze/silver league placements...

Added you. Hoping for some friendly low level practice. Fucking new season balanced me into gold, when I was silver before + lost the placement match. Now i get raped every game i play

Btw Ingame BoxerSlayer #932
Anyone who wants practice games at a low level, feel free to add

I have been practising m0ar since you discovered actually how terrible I am at this game ^^

[DevilDude]

I think I need to rebuild my macro and control grouping skills before I face other humans, I still seem to be able to micro for some reason but yeah every time I do nothing else gets done...

[Tyrehl]

How the fuck are they managing to fuck up something and delay the commentary/audio (related to the video) with like 3-4 seconds? Im talking about TSL and i know that the delay is because the commentators are probably watching a replay and not actual live footage. But wtf ..


Edit: Also can i get the replays (not VOD's) for TSL somewhere?

[hinch]

www.sc2replayed.com (http://www.sc2replayed.com) has some of the tsl replays and most of the mlg replays on it

[Tyrehl]

http://www.sc2replayed.com has some of the tsl replays and most of the mlg replays on it
Thanks, hinch :D saw you online the other day, SC going good for you? :)

[Rans]

Anyone knows in which DayXXX Day9 talked about protoss and how to get good with them?

[hinch]

http://www.sc2replayed.com has some of the tsl replays and most of the mlg replays on it
Thanks, hinch :D saw you online the other day, SC going good for you? :)


i is certainly getting better.

i'm about 90% win ratio vs zerg
about 60% vs protos though this can all depend on if i spot the cheese (since every single protos in bronze does nothing but cannon cheese rush)

and i'm horrible vs terran think i'm on a 90% loss rate. its shocking no matter how many units i have or how upgraded they are MM spam just rips it apart

[Tyrehl]

http://www.sc2replayed.com has some of the tsl replays and most of the mlg replays on it
Thanks, hinch :D saw you online the other day, SC going good for you? :)


i is certainly getting better.

i'm about 90% win ratio vs zerg
about 60% vs protos though this can all depend on if i spot the cheese (since every single protos in bronze does nothing but cannon cheese rush)

and i'm horrible vs terran think i'm on a 90% loss rate. its shocking no matter how many units i have or how upgraded they are MM spam just rips it apart
Forcefields rape MM. Actually, forcefields rape everything. I guess its not easy to use them but if you learn to do so you will be god among men (or something like that :D ).

[hinch]

aye i kinda fail with ff's atm

[DevilDude]

yeah FF is godlike in the hands of a decent toss player, but I expect that pretty soon we'll start to see lots of Ultra/Thor/Colossus play that will make them worthless past early midgame. They're kinda necessary for toss early on as we have almost no other way to hold a ramp, the real magic is in splitting the opposing force in two and taking it apart though once you get 7-8 sentries in your ball you can divide and conquer really easily.

[hinch]

i keep loosing my collosus atm because I can't really micro so i fail at having the collosus behind the main stalker/zealot lines and they keep getting focused down.

until i can master the micro I just go the route of having more collosus than they can kill.

typically though my games go 2 ways. they try early rush/cheese i block it counter attack and win. or they do early rush/cheese before I've even managed to get first gate and zealot out and i die. and in bronze there's TOO MUCH CHEESE :(

[hinch]

i just got called a noob camper because i sat on 2 base and built up stalkers / phoenix after i early scouted him building up BC's.

when he finally attacked i spanked his bc's then proceeded to smash his base up he wasn't very happy :)

[Tyrehl]

i just got called a noob camper because i sat on 2 base and built up stalkers / phoenix after i early scouted him building up BC's.

when he finally attacked i spanked his bc's then proceeded to smash his base up he wasn't very happy :)
Hahahahahaha :D good job :lol:

[Tyrehl]

FUUUUCK YEAH 8-) Decided to finally play my 1v1 placement match. Was against a plat Protoss, lookit dat promotion http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7933/rawrr.png

:D I know that its been soo long ago when plat. was actually decen (and now with that masters league and stuff its not anymore) and im also rank 99 (omg) but i dont care. Feels like im back into business again. I cant remember a terran player i really wanted to check out for some better openers against different races, but when i get his name somewhere i'll start learning some stuff fast (i hope).

:companioncube:

[donjehova]

Fuck what is it with silver / bronze leagues that make people cheese all the time. I finally got demoted to more of my level - silver and ive been pretty much nothing but cheesed 70% of all my games so far. And not just the usual 4gate shit, but proper cheese. 6 pool, canon rush, proxy barracks. If the games get a little longer, its either 4 gate, or 1 base mm push. One proper out of the last 7...

[Shalam]

Fuck what is it with silver / bronze leagues that make people cheese all the time. I finally got demoted to more of my level - silver and ive been pretty much nothing but cheesed 70% of all my games so far. And not just the usual 4gate shit, but proper cheese. 6 pool, canon rush, proxy barracks. If the games get a little longer, its either 4 gate, or 1 base mm push. One proper out of the last 7...

I'm in Silver and I can't even remember the last time someone tried that against me. :? Edit: Actually I do remember.. it was the time this muppet starts chatting and says he just did placement and this was his first real game yadadada, So i'm thinking I'll take it easy and.... banelings bust my wall and rape me. I hit caps lock by mistake in all the action and my end comment of "LAME" before I ragequit sounds even more bitter in caps. :cut: Lesson learned...

I think i'd prefer it to the games i get though... every tvt is a ~1hour long split map tank fest :(

[Tyrehl]

Fuck what is it with silver / bronze leagues that make people cheese all the time. I finally got demoted to more of my level - silver and ive been pretty much nothing but cheesed 70% of all my games so far. And not just the usual 4gate shit, but proper cheese. 6 pool, canon rush, proxy barracks. If the games get a little longer, its either 4 gate, or 1 base mm push. One proper out of the last 7...

I'm in Silver and I can't even remember the last time someone tried that against me. :? Edit: Actually I do remember.. it was the time this muppet starts chatting and says he just did placement and this was his first real game yadadada, So i'm thinking I'll take it easy and.... banelings bust my wall and rape me. I hit caps lock by mistake in all the action and my end comment of "LAME" before I ragequit sounds even more bitter in caps. :cut: Lesson learned...

I think i'd prefer it to the games i get though... every tvt is a ~1hour long split map tank fest :(

3 Tech Lab Starports and a Fusion Core would've fixed the problem 8-) just get some vikings while still having the reactor port (for medivacs?). Btw you can watch the TSL games between Kas and Nada, i just checked the first/2nd one and it was awesome. Siege tanks are beasty if you are good at placing them around and sieging in the right moment.

Btw donjehova try to learn how to detect cheesing fags. Proxy gateway / pilon in your base is one of the most common (+ cannon rushing. Always, always check your base around 14-15 supply to see if there isnt a probe that managed to sneak in. It has happened to me and i was like "wtf but i started building my SD on my ramp at 10, how did he entered that fast". It appeared that his probe got into my base while i was still heading to the ramp o.O Stuff like that.
Also void rays. Grr ;d

[DevilDude]

oh god funday monday this week, game three was beyond epic...

[DevilDude]

Here's the old ID list, unfortunately the moderation doesn't seem to be partial to uncluttered threads...


Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: Star Craft 2: ID listing
ID listing for SC2 just so we don't have to search for it in the discussion thread:

Post your names in this format:

[region] [SHC Name] - [SC2 name] : [SC2 ID#] - [steamID (optional)]

I'll update as fast as I can.

EU:
Mitthrawn - TakeshiK : 185
Gobbins - Gobbins : 243
Ardrax Makbaoth - YRQ : 703
Jocelyn Fernos - orecus : 968
Waagaa - Waagaa : 938
Goldsnake - Goldsnake : 954
Kalorn - Izmak : 651
Fuzuli - Zal : 380
Minas - Minas : 115
Aramendel - Psykhe : 924
dynamicaL - Kraken : 697
Cerzi - Cerzi : 228
Lumy - Abe : 672
TroN - TroN : 230 - Steam: srtron
Oi-Ogron - Bones : 830
Rosur - Rosur : 223
Dinique - Phenom : 831
Hatepeace Lovewar - Hatepeace : 686
Meluena - Keukeu : 801
Euriti - Euriti : 101 - Eurudin
Kazang - Kazang : 845
Thedirtypaw - Thedirtypaw : 829
Morax Marbas - Morax : 864
Tyrehl - Nex : 664
hinch - hinch : 195

NA:
DevilDude - Psilent : 843
Gamesguy - Gamesguy : 772
Zoidberg - Gobias : 131 - tanks4ntn
Marcus Quo - Gilligan : 272
Hels - BLAHOrblah : 367 - Hels
Vortex - Mal : 954
Elipson - Ayato : 961
Kou Rien - Opacus : 152
JonMiller - Jon : 806 - mjona
Kaylana Skye - Dotus : 620
Elo - Eloknight : 521
Zumwalt - Zumwalt : 439
Helfix - Sonic : 735
Tai Paktu - Tai : 996
Hunter V - ChuckCranstn : 231
AntarisXenal - AntarisXenal : 608
WasahB - WasahB : 217
Alenar - Rumanev : Alenar : 947
Nicho Void - WildKarrde : 598
The Pie - Superbeast - 739
Helluin - Darkmatter : 282
Duun - Suhuy : DuunSuhuy : 846
Fortuk - Fortuk : graphk : 974
mobiusnm - mobiusnm : pruritus : 740
cmd - CARAM : 968 - CARAM
winterfell- winterfell : 255
Nyx Opet - Nyx : 790
Undertow Latheus - Beeblebrox : 901

APAC:
Toolivus - Tools : 407
Deadalus Dugalle - FallschirmPD : 974



many thanks to untilted's corpmate for managing to archive tons of shit.

[mitthrawn]

You guys watching Dreamhack Invitational? It's pure ownage! That's how you do it MLG!

Idra vs MC is next! :)

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/dreamhackTV

[filingo]

Here's the old ID list, unfortunately the moderation doesn't seem to be partial to uncluttered threads...


Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: Star Craft 2: ID listing
ID listing for SC2 just so we don't have to search for it in the discussion thread:

Post your names in this format:

[region] [SHC Name] - [SC2 name] : [SC2 ID#] - [steamID (optional)]

I'll update as fast as I can.

EU:
Mitthrawn - TakeshiK : 185
Gobbins - Gobbins : 243
Ardrax Makbaoth - YRQ : 703
Jocelyn Fernos - orecus : 968
Waagaa - Waagaa : 938
Goldsnake - Goldsnake : 954
Kalorn - Izmak : 651
Fuzuli - Zal : 380
Minas - Minas : 115
Aramendel - Psykhe : 924
dynamicaL - Kraken : 697
Cerzi - Cerzi : 228
Lumy - Abe : 672
TroN - TroN : 230 - Steam: srtron
Oi-Ogron - Bones : 830
Rosur - Rosur : 223
Dinique - Phenom : 831
Hatepeace Lovewar - Hatepeace : 686
Meluena - Keukeu : 801
Euriti - Euriti : 101 - Eurudin
Kazang - Kazang : 845
Thedirtypaw - Thedirtypaw : 829
Morax Marbas - Morax : 864
Tyrehl - Nex : 664
hinch - hinch : 195

NA:
DevilDude - Psilent : 843
Gamesguy - Gamesguy : 772
Zoidberg - Gobias : 131 - tanks4ntn
Marcus Quo - Gilligan : 272
Hels - BLAHOrblah : 367 - Hels
Vortex - Mal : 954
Elipson - Ayato : 961
Kou Rien - Opacus : 152
JonMiller - Jon : 806 - mjona
Kaylana Skye - Dotus : 620
Elo - Eloknight : 521
Zumwalt - Zumwalt : 439
Helfix - Sonic : 735
Tai Paktu - Tai : 996
Hunter V - ChuckCranstn : 231
AntarisXenal - AntarisXenal : 608
WasahB - WasahB : 217
Alenar - Rumanev : Alenar : 947
Nicho Void - WildKarrde : 598
The Pie - Superbeast - 739
Helluin - Darkmatter : 282
Duun - Suhuy : DuunSuhuy : 846
Fortuk - Fortuk : graphk : 974
mobiusnm - mobiusnm : pruritus : 740
cmd - CARAM : 968 - CARAM
winterfell- winterfell : 255
Nyx Opet - Nyx : 790
Undertow Latheus - Beeblebrox : 901

APAC:
Toolivus - Tools : 407
Deadalus Dugalle - FallschirmPD : 974



many thanks to untilted's corpmate for managing to archive tons of shit.

:(

ill put it in the op.

is there a starcraft channel i can put in teh sticky?

[lt]

Just tuned in, was White-ra vs. Jinro any good?

[mitthrawn]

haha Idra always delivers :D

[lt]

C'mon White-RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[lt]

And I really needed to study. Have to watch the beast!

[mitthrawn]

haha that Dreamhack host is so hilarious! :D

[Tyrehl]

ZOMG dreamhack o.O how did i missed that.

[mitthrawn]

Holy Ra!

[Tyrehl]

Grr i was cooking and missed what happened in the 3rd game, now the 5th (final) one. Will be interesting.
Btw Demuslim is awesome.


my rage is epic :@ i walked out for 3 minutes and when i came back whitera had gg'd :(

[mitthrawn]

Fantastic tournament. Easily tops any other SC2 tournament so far, even GSL!

[Cividari]

First team league was better, as was the korea vs world showmatch. Probably best foreigner tournament though, no crashes!

[mitthrawn]

If you look at the matches, maybe. But the production was superb! Outclassing everything outside of Korea by far and tbh it was even better than GSL.

[Mavolio]

played a few 4v4 games today. I went zerg my friend went terran then 2 random ppl on our team. I then just feed him every thing i can and just laugh as his MM army crushes the entire enemy team :twisted:

[Tyrehl]

played a few 4v4 games today. I went zerg my friend went terran then 2 random ppl on our team. I then just feed him every thing i can and just laugh as his MM army crushes the entire enemy team :twisted:
Interested in 3-manned 4v4 random teams? Im so tired of playing with idiots, currently playing with protoss (i have less than 10 games with that race in total) and steamrolling everything, 1st on the scoreboard etc :(
plx halp

[donjehova]

Protoss does seem out of whack at moment. A good idea I read on tl, was to make robo upgrades different for gateway upgrades, or make them less powerful. Maybe make the warpgate tech slower, to stop the 4gate madness a bit.
What do I know anyway, Im terrible

[Davd]

Tempted to try this week's funday monday :twisted:

[cmd]

i just got called a noob camper because i sat on 2 base and built up stalkers / phoenix after i early scouted him building up BC's.

when he finally attacked i spanked his bc's then proceeded to smash his base up he wasn't very happy :)

why not just run his ass over at 10 minutes

[DevilDude]

i just got called a noob camper because i sat on 2 base and built up stalkers / phoenix after i early scouted him building up BC's.

when he finally attacked i spanked his bc's then proceeded to smash his base up he wasn't very happy :)

why not just run his ass over at 10 minutes

Terran can be pretty hard to crack if he turtles hard, the correct response is to 3base and 10gate him.

[hinch]

i just got called a noob camper because i sat on 2 base and built up stalkers / phoenix after i early scouted him building up BC's.

when he finally attacked i spanked his bc's then proceeded to smash his base up he wasn't very happy :)

why not just run his ass over at 10 minutes

he was bunkered up pretty hard and i'm not that much of a fan of the "early" rushing I like to get some upgrades out and get a good 50 supply of army at least before pushing. although i've recently taken to doing early contains with sentries and stalkers to allow me to get a 2nd fully up and running without being over ran as usually happens when I attempt a 2nd

[Blutreiter]

Which site has some good beginner guides?

I was halfway decent in Starcraft 1 but I seem to get raped by the better players in Starcraft 2... not counting the really obvious braindead people.

[hinch]

there's alot of info on the team liquid site builds etc stuff to look out for to tell if you're being cheesed etc.

thing is if you're placed in the bronze league (like me :( ) 99% of the opponents you get cheese you so if you can hold off the early cheese you win but its kinda annoying as you never get to practice the high level openings/builds etc because you're too busy being anti cheese at the start.

[sand]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=212881 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=212881)

Started a thread up that's been causing a lot of discussion - decided for now I'm going back to Terran (hate PvP!).

[RazoR]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=212881

Started a thread up that's been causing a lot of discussion - decided for now I'm going back to Terran (hate PvP!).gb2vagina

[donjehova]

Got into to silver. Feeling pro, until i realize Im still in the buttom 10% haha, ohh gawd. And now i dont win 4 in 5 anymore

[Davd]

Played maybe 12 or so games lastnight, ladder/practice partner and feeling like shit about it. Starting to hate zerg :(

[DevilDude]

Played maybe 12 or so games lastnight, ladder/practice partner and feeling like shit about it. Starting to hate zerg :(
post replays, we can probably help.

[Tyrehl]

Played maybe 12 or so games lastnight, ladder/practice partner and feeling like shit about it. Starting to hate zerg :(
post replays, we can probably help.


Hurp durp can someone help me as well ?

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1647 ... ga-caverns (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/164758-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)

I played a custom game against a diamond Terran to try a zerg build (spanishwa anyone?). I was esentially terrible at mechanics plus my zerg is bad (in 1v1 im T). I missed a ton of larva injects, didnt researched hive tech (would've helped alot) and almost every time i attacked i forgot to use my infestors (lol :( ).
Also early pressure easily throws me off so i messed up the build.


But, but ! !!! What would've been a good decision for me in general aspect of the game? Like timing windows where i could've attacked, more harassment, where should i've expanded (i was on 2 bases for most of the game). Stuff like that.
Not telling you who won in the end :ohnoes:

Davd, upload replays so the others can see them. I can also check them, im not really good but i can help here and there with some more obvious stuff.

[DevilDude]

Played maybe 12 or so games lastnight, ladder/practice partner and feeling like shit about it. Starting to hate zerg :(
post replays, we can probably help.


Hurp durp can someone help me as well ?

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1647 ... ga-caverns (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/164758-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)

I played a custom game against a diamond Terran to try a zerg build (spanishwa anyone?). I was esentially terrible at mechanics plus my zerg is bad (in 1v1 im T). I missed a ton of larva injects, didnt researched hive tech (would've helped alot) and almost every time i attacked i forgot to use my infestors (lol :( ).
Also early pressure easily throws me off so i messed up the build.


But, but ! !!! What would've been a good decision for me in general aspect of the game? Like timing windows where i could've attacked, more harassment, where should i've expanded (i was on 2 bases for most of the game). Stuff like that.
Not telling you who won in the end :ohnoes:

Davd, upload replays so the others can see them. I can also check them, im not really good but i can help here and there with some more obvious stuff.

you didn't do to bad there, you're macro was outrunning his pretty much of the time, though you did bank more resources (especially gas) than I would. I'd say the main mistake I could see was how you dealt with that early drop, you got all you lings stuck in a choke blocked by your own queen while a medivac kept the marine that one of them was managing to hit alive while the other four chewed up your main. you needed to run the lings round back to take advantage of his spread out easily surrounded marines and use the queens to hit the medivac so he couldn't heal them up or get them out. other than that it seemed like you were trading armies at a loss and making up for it in macro, I saw a lot of lings die covered in green goo from your own banelings, you may want to work on your positioning there.

oh and send your scout earlier, he walled off and opened 1-1-1 which got a medivac and hellions out early and that's what you had trouble dealing with.

[Tyrehl]

Uhh yea, thanks. I need to practice that build in single player a bit, also scouting is my weak side a bit (and map control). I'll try again and see how it goes. Im not used to that late gas build i *tried* to do so i end up with stockpile of minerals / too delayed pool and stuff like that.

In the mean time im planning of changing my TvZ a 'bit'. Terran MECH sounds interesting and i saw it in few games. Really strong, but i will need 1-2 hours (at least) of checking the opening, timing windows for pushes and polishing the build/strat overall. I have some idea what to do in TvP (also some mech in that matchup is really great, especially thors to break the FF's). TvT (and mirror matches) will remain my weakest side overall, i'll work on it later next week probably.
(Any suggestions are welcome.)

[hinch]

if you need a protos to practice against give me a shout :) turns out i'm better against higher ranked players than bronze noobs since the higher ranks tend to follow more strict build orders and cheese less :)

[Tyrehl]

if you need a protos to practice against give me a shout :) turns out i'm better against higher ranked players than bronze noobs since the higher ranks tend to follow more strict build orders and cheese less :)
Cool, i'll poke you on lolBnet the next time i see you online :)

[hinch]

god damn it how do i get out of the fking bronze league :( i keep getting matched against silvers and give them utter butt hurt but i'm still stuck in the fucking bronze. can't even get in top 8 because the guys above me must have played about 90 million games or something

[sand]

Wow, that TSL first match was INSANE.

[sand]

Any US players want to practice some? I'm thinking we should setup a chat room...

[DevilDude]

prolly not a bad idea, I have no idea how much my skills have degraded since September when I last really played...

[Davd]

Played maybe 12 or so games lastnight, ladder/practice partner and feeling like shit about it. Starting to hate zerg :(
post replays, we can probably help.


Hurp durp can someone help me as well ?

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1647 ... ga-caverns (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/164758-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns)

I played a custom game against a diamond Terran to try a zerg build (spanishwa anyone?). I was esentially terrible at mechanics plus my zerg is bad (in 1v1 im T). I missed a ton of larva injects, didnt researched hive tech (would've helped alot) and almost every time i attacked i forgot to use my infestors (lol :( ).
Also early pressure easily throws me off so i messed up the build.


But, but ! !!! What would've been a good decision for me in general aspect of the game? Like timing windows where i could've attacked, more harassment, where should i've expanded (i was on 2 bases for most of the game). Stuff like that.
Not telling you who won in the end :ohnoes:

Davd, upload replays so the others can see them. I can also check them, im not really good but i can help here and there with some more obvious stuff.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24792819/ZvP%20Stop%20Canon%20Rush%20Fail%20to%20Win.SC2Rep lay

Stopped canon cheesery, and somehow failed to take the economic lead and win.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24792819/ZvT%20Practice.SC2Replay

I'm guessing I took my third too late on this one and didn't use enough banelings. I hate medivacs.

[Tyrehl]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24792819/ZvP%20Stop%20Canon%20Rush%20Fail%20to%20Win.SC2Rep lay

Stopped canon cheesery, and somehow failed to take the economic lead and win.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24792819/ZvT%20Practice.SC2Replay

I'm guessing I took my third too late on this one and didn't use enough banelings. I hate medivacs.


I watched your first replay, im not pro at zerg but i play decently overall (kinda). Just a few advices :)

(Someone can watch his second one as i dont have the time for it today).



3:20 - You should've cut 1 drone and make an Overlord, you got >>Supply blocked<<
5:33 - Supply blocked once again; You had so much larva stockpiled and instead of OV (earlier) and drones you morphed 2 overlords
7:21 - i dont like that Hatch cancel. Zerg on 1 base is really bad ;( You actually forgot to put drones back on the gas or something, not sure what, so you ended up with 670 minerals (300 from the hatch) and 78 gas. You need your lair tech to stop the void rays :/


7:40 - 42/42 Supply :)

9:34 - nice defending there, but you arent macroing enough. Also expand !

10:03 - Extractor is ready, put guys on the gas !! :) couldve been better (25 seconds delay until you pulled drones from the minerals).

You can actually double expand here and tech to lair asap (Lair should've been started 4 minutes earlier at least)

10:40 - The protoss expanded, you are still on 1 base without any map control (the xel naga towers, speedlings, more creep spread)

11:40 - overlord on your back "air" entrance, helps alot

12:51 - finally started the lair, kinda too late ;(

14:15 Lair finished, start your Spire asap. You are sitting on 2k minerals, in any case you should've built one macro hatchery (on your expo i would say, so you wont get blocked @ your ramp from a forcefield for example).

Queens! with 1 hatchery you couldnt make enough, 4 queens would've killed alot of void rays (if you focus your attention on them and transfuse 2-3 times)

TBH i would start a hydra den instead of spire maybe, its obvious that his ground army sux so with couple of roaches you can take care of them. Your problems are the void rays and you need a unit that is good at fighting them head-on.

21:00 His deathball starts to look ugly strong, he is 50 supply ahead of you.
Should've started 2 extractors at the natural immediately. And umm .. 14 drones for minerals? You need like 20+ per base and 6 more for the 2 extractors :)

23:20 Ouch :)






TL;DR:
There were several timing windows where you SHOULD've (not just could) expanded. Zerg on 1 base for more than 3-4 minutes is unacceptable. Also the gold expo should've been easy to take.
Your macro is still kinda bad, at first you were ok with larva injects but later i noticed that you started missing the moments where you had enough energy for it. Make macro Hatcheries !!!
More drones and 2 queens per base when you notice his void rays (he was 1-stargating you the whole game).
Mutas in his base would've screwed him alot. They arent for fighting Void rays head-on.

Also dont get supply-blocked in early game. You should constantly check your Upper right corner (supply) and your lower left every 10-15 seconds (at first).

Watch Day9 daily Nr. 252 (http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4712303/). Then watch it again.

Make yourself a Starcraft notebook (serious here). I have one for like umm .. 6 days? :D And its almost empty as i havent had much time to play. It really helps, you can make different sections for ZvP, ZvT, ZvZ. Then write down some cool timings (example, Warpgate research finishes between 5:30 and 5:45, Warpgates are up at 5:45 - 6:00 etc).

Stuff like that. At first i guess that your goal should be to start countering cheese HARD. Place your overlords around your base, always scout your main in the beginning so you can stop early cannon / proxy bullshit etc.








Edit: http://i.imgur.com/flIqP.jpg no cookie for me :( just won against a zerg, decided to push with like 4 marines and constantly produced more from 3 rax. Managed to kill some lings, 2-3 OV's and 2 queens, his hatch went down and i contained him for 1-2 more minutes :D Went Mech after that 8-) he didnt even gg'd after he suicided a bunch of ling/blings against my thors lol :cut:

[stoat]

Kind of old news and I'm sure most people here are already aware of it, but there seems to be a micro bot that doesn't rely on internal game scripting to micro (specifically roach burrow micro). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209908

Can't even see him select individual roaches (but in the game info it does show them being selected, just too fast to show up on the replay). Also does perfect injects while microing the roaches at 600apm.

[sand]

First game of the TSL today was awesome - what happens when ya catch 32 probes transferring with 3 blue flame helions? GOOD TIMES!

[mitthrawn]

I am more impressed with our 'new' Zerg hero Mondi <3


edit: awww...meh. Protoss deathball of doom :(

[DevilDude]

watching whitera's stream right now, he's DT rushing like a boss, I need to steal this build.

[hinch]

nin cannon rushes are by no means an all in as long as the cannon rusher isn't a noob.

infact if done right they barely touch the econ at all and help give an early upgrade advantage to a lvl 1 of some description. its only noobs who do all in cannon rushes so that trick is to just stop it but don't think its an immediate win to you - although a quick speedling counter after finishing off the cheese could pay dividends for you just go straight past any static defences at his "wall" area and head for his probes

[Tyrehl]

God, just watched Boxer vs Sen . In every damn game i was like AAAW W OMG OMG OMG BANELINGS, RUN, PUSH, OMG KILL HIM" great, FENOMENAL games :D

omg

..

[hinch]

aye i watched them this morning they're ace

[sand]

http://i.imgur.com/mbPGb.jpg

LOL

[Nyx Opet]

Any US players want to practice some? I'm thinking we should setup a chat room...

I agree, use channel teamminmatar?

[Hehulk]

http://i.imgur.com/mbPGb.jpg

LOL

Outstanding :lol:

[sand]

Any US players want to practice some? I'm thinking we should setup a chat room...

I agree, use channel teamminmatar?


teamminmatar it is (sitting in it now idle while I get some work done - had a few people poke their heads in)

-Speaking of some practice, I'm getting good at macro...to a point. I can get tons of income, some buildings, land down my 2nd and 3rd and suddenly realize "holy shit I'm on 1k/1k" and frantically plant down some production buildings....and if they show up, sometimes I get my ass kicked because of this. Soon as I nail that down, I'm guessing I'll finally get back into masters (sitting at rank 2 diamond atm, but keep losing dumb games).

A lot of coming back to the game I'm noticing is not fundamentals but seeing something like dying to DTs and mental noting "Oh ya, I need this by minute 10"....once ya get that down, which I'm starting to, it's getting better.

BTW, hate mutas ;)

[Davd]

nin cannon rushes are by no means an all in as long as the cannon rusher isn't a noob.

infact if done right they barely touch the econ at all and help give an early upgrade advantage to a lvl 1 of some description. its only noobs who do all in cannon rushes so that trick is to just stop it but don't think its an immediate win to you - although a quick speedling counter after finishing off the cheese could pay dividends for you just go straight past any static defences at his "wall" area and head for his probes

I ended up killing off two pylons, he was trying pretty hard to canon rush. Unfortunately I was too afraid of putting up an expansion when I saw his stargate. Seemed pretty all-inish when he was attempting it, wasn't much of a fake. Loosing those pylons early on is pretty serious stuff.

[sand]

I feel like mashing my brain into my keyboard after that last match.

An epic 30minute battle where I continually stomp his gateway units and we split the map in Metal, then as I'm pushing out he brought in 15 DTs RIGHT as I step back to macro (he hadn't shown them at all for 30min)....and guess who didn't have a raven? By the time I hear the noise, hotkey back, scan....lot o shit died.

He raped my army (after he had none from our last engagement) and I fruitlessly push in thinking it wasn't that bad of a hit - looking at the replay I lost 40 supply to those DTs in a matter of 15 seconds - he then proceeds to come in with 30+ 3/3/3 zealots while all my helion/marine is gone and I've got only marauder/Thror/Medivac left and get stomped.

ARG! Dropped the ball...

[DevilDude]

I feel like mashing my brain into my keyboard after that last match.

An epic 30minute battle where I continually stomp his gateway units and we split the map in Metal, then as I'm pushing out he brought in 15 DTs RIGHT as I step back to macro (he hadn't shown them at all for 30min)....and guess who didn't have a raven? By the time I hear the noise, hotkey back, scan....lot o shit died.

He raped my army (after he had none from our last engagement) and I fruitlessly push in thinking it wasn't that bad of a hit - looking at the replay I lost 40 supply to those DTs in a matter of 15 seconds - he then proceeds to come in with 30+ 3/3/3 zealots while all my helion/marine is gone and I've got only marauder/Thror/Medivac left and get stomped.

ARG! Dropped the ball...
honestly you can transition into DT's with frightening speed if you're going standard gateway, if the game lasted thirty minutes a council would be practically mandatory for leg speed and blink not to mention hallucinate for free scouting. at that point if he has gas banked (easy with a zealot heavy force) all he has to do is throw up a shrine and kick out DT's for a cycle or two and throw them in your face.

[Davd]

What's the best way to hold off a zealot rush on xel'naga? I seem to get trapped into 1 basing and can't get enough roaches to defend.

[Waagaa]

What's the best way to hold off a zealot rush on xel'naga? I seem to get trapped into 1 basing and can't get enough roaches to defend.

lots of speedlings. or even, go completely gas-less until about 40 food. Defend with lots of queens and slow lings.

[Tyrehl]

What's the best way to hold off a zealot rush on xel'naga? I seem to get trapped into 1 basing and can't get enough roaches to defend.

lots of speedlings. or even, go completely gas-less until about 40 food. Defend with lots of queens and slow lings.
Yes, this is awesome. You should try Spanishiwa (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017).
I even try this in team games because i dont care about them much and i preffer some practice for 1v1 Z-ing.
Edit: Also 3 spine crawlers (even 4 i would say), block ramp with 2 queens etc; Spread creep (with the build order i posted above you should be getting alot of queens early).

[Davd]

What's the best way to hold off a zealot rush on xel'naga? I seem to get trapped into 1 basing and can't get enough roaches to defend.

lots of speedlings. or even, go completely gas-less until about 40 food. Defend with lots of queens and slow lings.
Yes, this is awesome. You should try Spanishiwa (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017).
I even try this in team games because i dont care about them much and i preffer some practice for 1v1 Z-ing.
Edit: Also 3 spine crawlers (even 4 i would say), block ramp with 2 queens etc; Spread creep (with the build order i posted above you should be getting alot of queens early).

I've heard of the spanishiwa build but I haven't seen it in action. I was watching his stream earlier today at work; no sound, just caught glimpses of what he was doing. I'll give it a shot against my friend later in the week, I was being pretty stubborn and lost to his rushes 6 times. I started toying around with the idea of massing more zerglings early on than I'm used to, then I remembered the spanishiwa build.

[DevilDude]

What's the best way to hold off a zealot rush on xel'naga? I seem to get trapped into 1 basing and can't get enough roaches to defend.

lots of speedlings. or even, go completely gas-less until about 40 food. Defend with lots of queens and slow lings.
Yes, this is awesome. You should try Spanishiwa (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017).
I even try this in team games because i dont care about them much and i preffer some practice for 1v1 Z-ing.
Edit: Also 3 spine crawlers (even 4 i would say), block ramp with 2 queens etc; Spread creep (with the build order i posted above you should be getting alot of queens early).

I've heard of the spanishiwa build but I haven't seen it in action. I was watching his stream earlier today at work; no sound, just caught glimpses of what he was doing. I'll give it a shot against my friend later in the week, I was being pretty stubborn and lost to his rushes 6 times. I started toying around with the idea of massing more zerglings early on than I'm used to, then I remembered the spanishiwa build.

check out day9's archive on blip.tv he did a friendsday wedsnday with spanishiwa and explained the whole build in depth last week.

[Davd]

What's the best way to hold off a zealot rush on xel'naga? I seem to get trapped into 1 basing and can't get enough roaches to defend.

lots of speedlings. or even, go completely gas-less until about 40 food. Defend with lots of queens and slow lings.
Yes, this is awesome. You should try Spanishiwa (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=207017).
I even try this in team games because i dont care about them much and i preffer some practice for 1v1 Z-ing.
Edit: Also 3 spine crawlers (even 4 i would say), block ramp with 2 queens etc; Spread creep (with the build order i posted above you should be getting alot of queens early).

I've heard of the spanishiwa build but I haven't seen it in action. I was watching his stream earlier today at work; no sound, just caught glimpses of what he was doing. I'll give it a shot against my friend later in the week, I was being pretty stubborn and lost to his rushes 6 times. I started toying around with the idea of massing more zerglings early on than I'm used to, then I remembered the spanishiwa build.

check out day9's archive on blip.tv he did a friendsday wedsnday with spanishiwa and explained the whole build in depth last week.

I checked it out today and tried it on the ladder. I lost the first 3 games, I mainly had trouble transitioning into the gas phase, but eventually I pulled it off. I held off a 4 gate zealot rush with 5 queens, 3 spinecrawlers and a handfull of zerglings. Transitioned into the gas phase, pumped out roaches and hydras to counter his voidrays and then started popping up infestors and ultralisks.

I like this opening a lot better than 14gas, 14pool I just need work on the gas phase where you rapidly tech up. I'd probably still go 14 gas 14 pool on ZvZ though.

[hinch]

srsly
http://www.onebit.us/images/justfuckingpromoteme.jpg

i have like 3 weeks just like this and i'm still stuck in bronze :( can't even make it into top 10 since i just dont play enough

[Shalam]

srsly
[imgstuffs]

i have like 3 weeks just like this and i'm still stuck in bronze :( can't even make it into top 10 since i just dont play enough

It wouldn't be a Blizzard game if you didn't have to grind ;). Playing to have fun instead of worrying about leagues might be a better idea :).

[Davd]

It's going to try and force your win ratio towards 50/50, when that happens it'll move you up. You'd have to loose a few games before it has a better idea of where you belong. It took me a while to move up as well. Don't worry too much about it, and check what league your opponents are in, it's a hint towards whether you're moving up soon or not.

[hinch]

most of my opponents are silver had a couple of golds last week which i spanked too.

my win ration is currently about 90% wins :)

[Davd]

Artosis play in the NASL yet?

[Waagaa]

Artosis play in the NASL yet?

yes.

[mitthrawn]

and lost both his matches. Still a hero imo :)

Also NASL feels bloody dull anyway tbh. There will be endless weeks of just group play. By the time it gets serious we already gonna have 2 new GSL champions and Dreamhack Summer is right about to start. :roll:

[Foul]

most of my opponents are silver had a couple of golds last week which i spanked too.

my win ration is currently about 90% wins :)

Youll prob jump to gold soon if you keep beating golds.

[hinch]

I'm having a horirble day today beat 2 silvers lost to 4 bronze :( though i suspect its my own fault i'm trying to learn a new build (1 gate fast robo into expand) and I'm struggling with my timings horribly today.

Trying to stick it out though as I've got the 4 gate rush and 3 gate robo expand builds pretty much nailed enough for my current level of opponents (though can still inprove on midgame transition into end game collosus deathball I tend to forget to build forces when i'm currently having skirmish fights with opponent)

[sand]

Well went from a pretty horrible losing streak to finally coming back into the contending area....still hasn't moved me to masters but after that losing streak, it's probably gonna be awhile.

What got me out? Realizing that what I'm good with is expensive units rather than macro'ing the mass shit like bio. Thrors and ravens, the 2 starport 2 factory build, tanks, etc. I just generally do better with those kind of units - and when the 200/200 fight comes (I like to draw games to that point through defensive play), I can generally win with pdd/seeker and mass mech.

"Play to your strengths"

[hinch]

yeah i just want to be more than a one trick pony. the 4 gate to me always feels like "cheese" and the 3gate robo expand leaves you very vulnerable in the early mid game especially if they go air harass.

ofc it could just be that being stuck in the bronze league means that proper "builds" juts fail because everyone just cheeses or 6 rax rine rushes you :(

[Kazang]

and lost both his matches. Still a hero imo :)

Also NASL feels bloody dull anyway tbh. There will be endless weeks of just group play. By the time it gets serious we already gonna have 2 new GSL champions and Dreamhack Summer is right about to start. :roll:

He lost to FXO.Sheth who has one of the best ZvP in the world so no shame there. I agree about the NASL feeling pretty dull, it just feels like a very average online tournament.
GSL is much more exciting with it's live environment.

[hinch]

sheth is ranked 1 in the world in grand masters iirc

[sand]

I think the NASL suffers from bad commentating and production - it's some serious players and some awesome games, but it just doesn't get shown. I cannot stand Gretorp (he sounds like he's talking in slow motion - just listen to him and how he hesitates on EVERYTHING) and they really have a bad setup for music and pre-game/post-game....

It'll improve no doubt but stuff like IPL are gonna stomp it if they don't get their act together soon (and damn was IPL awesome - 1080hp HD stream with free vods and no cost?!)

[Gilligan]

yeah i just want to be more than a one trick pony. the 4 gate to me always feels like "cheese" and the 3gate robo expand leaves you very vulnerable in the early mid game especially if they go air harass.

ofc it could just be that being stuck in the bronze league means that proper "builds" juts fail because everyone just cheeses or 6 rax rine rushes you :(

Well, normally I'd suggest just learning how to 4gate since you're going to need it in PvP, but apparently Blizzard is talking about nerfing 4gate to make PvP more interesting.

We'll see what happens, anyone's guess at this point. I was finally getting decent at holding it off too, now it might not even be an issue =/

[Tyrehl]

yeah i just want to be more than a one trick pony. the 4 gate to me always feels like "cheese" and the 3gate robo expand leaves you very vulnerable in the early mid game especially if they go air harass.

ofc it could just be that being stuck in the bronze league means that proper "builds" juts fail because everyone just cheeses or 6 rax rine rushes you :(

Well, normally I'd suggest just learning how to 4gate since you're going to need it in PvP, but apparently Blizzard is talking about nerfing 4gate to make PvP more interesting.

We'll see what happens, anyone's guess at this point. I was finally getting decent at holding it off too, now it might not even be an issue =/
God, really? Can you post a link :D this is awesome. As im not a Protoss player but i love watching WhiteRa's stream (his "english" with russian accent is just awesome) i hate to see him play against a 4gater :(

[Djakku]

My SC:2 no life-lifestyle has been interrupted by WoT.

[Gilligan]

yeah i just want to be more than a one trick pony. the 4 gate to me always feels like "cheese" and the 3gate robo expand leaves you very vulnerable in the early mid game especially if they go air harass.

ofc it could just be that being stuck in the bronze league means that proper "builds" juts fail because everyone just cheeses or 6 rax rine rushes you :(

Well, normally I'd suggest just learning how to 4gate since you're going to need it in PvP, but apparently Blizzard is talking about nerfing 4gate to make PvP more interesting.

We'll see what happens, anyone's guess at this point. I was finally getting decent at holding it off too, now it might not even be an issue =/
God, really? Can you post a link :D this is awesome. As im not a Protoss player but i love watching WhiteRa's stream (his "english" with russian accent is just awesome) i hate to see him play against a 4gater :(

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=215288 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215288)

[sand]

The NASL tonight has been pretty good - they were screaming like girls in the Machien vs BRAT_OK scrapper base-trading matches and it was pretty entertaining. I think the best part about it was that since iNcontrol is teamates with Machine he kept saying "Oh man, I don't like this" which they rarely get personal on how people are screwing up.

[Dark Flare]

I am literally horrible at this. I follow build orders to the letter and still get stomped. How I shot less fail :(

[Zavior]

Watch day9 dailies on how to improve if you are literally horrible. They are pretty funny at times too

[Dark Flare]

Yeah, guess I should.

I just struggle with knowing when to do stuff like upgrades, expands etc, and how to adapt my build to what I scout. For example, last game I was going 111 TvT, I scout that he has 2 Rax going up. I KNOW he's going to pump marines early, but how the fuck do I stop him without completely welping my own build?

Also had a PvP where I went 4 Gate, he also went 4 Gate and had far more units than me :( idgi.

[hinch]

single bunker at your entranec with 4 rines in it then whatever other rines you can get near it and a couple of scv's to repair bunker

chrono your gate ways and cyber on pvp 4 gate and cut probes early ish. depends if you're going zealot rush 4 gate or stalker 4 gate.

[Gilligan]

Everyone complains so bitterly about PvP, I thought the Cruncher/Naniwa games today were some of the best of the Ro8. Really hope Blizzard seriously considers any change that might effect the 4 warp gate, lots of interesting stuff going on in PvP that isn't just 4wg vs 4wg like everyone seems to say it is.

[Wrack]

I just struggle with knowing when to do stuff like upgrades, expands etc, and how to adapt my build to what I scout. For example, last game I was going 111 TvT, I scout that he has 2 Rax going up. I KNOW he's going to pump marines early, but how the fuck do I stop him without completely welping my own build?

Stuff like this just comes from experience, from seeing lots of different situations, and if you lose, thinking about what might have worked better. In this case, what you'd want to do is just get your first tank or two out ASAP, and siege them up behind a bunker at your ramp. If you survive that long, you'll just get stronger and stronger the longer he waits to attack, cause tanks > infantry (tanks > all in TvT).


Also had a PvP where I went 4 Gate, he also went 4 Gate and had far more units than me :( idgi.

Then your execution is just worse than his. Study the replay and copy him better.

Also, it sounds like you're playing multiple races. While fun in theory, the insane amount of stuff you have to know to be able to do this well doesn't make it well-advised.

[sand]

Stuff like this just comes from experience, from seeing lots of different situations, and if you lose, thinking about what might have worked better. In this case, what you'd want to do is just get your first tank or two out ASAP, and siege them up behind a bunker at your ramp. If you survive that long, you'll just get stronger and stronger the longer he waits to attack, cause tanks > infantry (tanks > all in TvT).

Tanks aren't always better... there's a new build that's been surfacing more and more called the 2fac/2port build. Basically with banshee, viking, and helion you can take apart any other T basic marine/tank combo. IT IS A LOT HARDER TO PLAY - so don't say I didn't warn you, but it revolves around abusing banshees against tanks, constantly dropping with blue flame helions, and you need to micro a LOT to pull it off. You have to stop him before he just walks over and setups outside your base basically - if you can force that to stop, and catch him on the way out or harass earlier, you'll win.

If you want to be safe, just do tanks. But I like the non-standard builds..

[Tyrehl]

This week i watched the "how to steal a build" daily and decided to try to do it. I have issues at the very first step, get inspired. The only terran that is doing well lately (no koreans plx) is Kas, but his playstyle is kinda complicated. A friend recommended me Goody as he's a lowish apm player that goes mech.
At first that sounded good but i cant find even 10 replays of him winning against his opponents :( i tried some mech (with bad execution ! ) and i noticed some really nice HOLES in the build /some obvious ones/. Mass muta just demolishes me, i cant seem to find a good timing window when i can move out. Its either too early (pre-muta) when i have few tanks and supporting units (hellions and some marines) or his mutas delay my push by making me leave thors and missile turrets in my bases.

I need something that can apply some early pressure and then make a strong push ~10-11th minute, not later. Im currently looking at the 2rax FE opening for Terran, afaik some guys at the code S have it as a standard opening against Zerg.

Any advices? Im trying to find a player (or 3 different ones) so i can get a TvZ, TvP and eventually TvT strats that i can copy (as day9 explained in this weeks daily). This is currently my biggest problem as i've lost my sense of timings / well timed pushes and i need something solid to stick to.

PLX halp : (

Tl; DR : i can only think of Protoss or Zerg "inspiring" players to steal a solid build from. :|

[sand]

Uhh.....

http://www.pokerstrategytsl3.com/vods

Prae.ThorZain is a lot better than Kas I think - he knocked out oGsMC, LiquidTyler, and FruitDealer.

[Tyrehl]

Uhh.....

http://www.pokerstrategytsl3.com/vods

Prae.ThorZain is a lot better than Kas I think - he knocked out oGsMC, LiquidTyler, and FruitDealer.
Im just watching his games against MC. Awesome. I think i'll steal something :D too bad that there are no replays, wish i could check his builds better.
And on the other hand, MLG Dallas (has replays) ... almost no terran presence :( most of the T guys got eliminated really early.

[Kazang]

Go watch jinro's stream, steal his build orders.
He has pretty sick build orders even if his play has been off it's best lately he is a master of coming up with really sick strats.

Select and TLO both got pretty far at MLG, 3rd and 5th I think? Close to that anyway. Prime build steal candidates.

[hinch]

obligatory : boxer........

[Tyrehl]

Go watch jinro's stream, steal his build orders.
He has pretty sick build orders even if his play has been off it's best lately he is a master of coming up with really sick strats.

Select and TLO both got pretty far at MLG, 3rd and 5th I think? Close to that anyway. Prime build steal candidates.
Yea i checked select but i was looking at some TvZ. And TLO .. he's awesome, but im nowhere near being able to play with his sick style.
And boxer *cough* :D i feel so bad that he lost to hasuobs, he did some amazing games last week. :D

I'll really check jinro, i feel like i completely forgot about that guy.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

I dont suppose anybody has a trial key/guest pass left from their boxed version they wouldn't mind giving me (EU) for a friend who wants to play?

[Tyrehl]

I dont suppose anybody has a trial key/guest pass left from their boxed version they wouldn't mind giving me (EU) for a friend who wants to play?
Aww shit, i have 1 left but its like 1100km away from me :( what happened, didnt you had an account :o

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Digital copy because I wanted it asap, you don't get any keys with it :(.

[Tyrehl]

Digital copy because I wanted it asap, you don't get any keys with it :(.
Oh its for a friend of yours, :mrgreen:

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Indeed.

[Shalam]

I dont suppose anybody has a trial key/guest pass left from their boxed version they wouldn't mind giving me (EU) for a friend who wants to play?

Sent you one in PM. Didn't know I had them. :)

Also, Do GOM play this really shit music (K-pop or whatever) before the show starts to make the GSL seem much better? :|

[Tyrehl]

I dont suppose anybody has a trial key/guest pass left from their boxed version they wouldn't mind giving me (EU) for a friend who wants to play?

Sent you one in PM. Didn't know I had them. :)

Also, Do GOM play this really shit music (K-pop or whatever) before the show starts to make the GSL seem much better? :|If it wasnt that shit (not music, please) but something else (whatever it is) i could've shown some GSL to my friends. Lol .. :(


1.3.3 Changes, coming soon :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=216605 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216605)

I LOVE the ghost change, it is so hard to play mid-late game against toss - mass sentry HT armies just roll over everything but mech. 200/100 makes the use of Ghosts in mid game alot easier, until now ive tried to make a timing push with 1-2 ghosts against protoss and i had that huge problem with the gas cost :( cant wait for the patch to go live :D
Also

Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.

Heh, no more easy warping of units up the ramp at your opponents base. That and the increase of the Warp Gate research time will definitely make my day. The only issue i see is that zealots are made a bit too fast from gateways now (again, lol). I'll have to start walling off early again / check for proxy gateways alot more often.

Edit: And i DONT like the Bunker nerf, with its huge building time it already costs alot of mining time. Now we can get only like 75 minerals back? Hell no :evil:

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Cheers for the code.

[Pacefalm]

Anyone want to add me? EU TZ. I played a little bit at platinum right when the game was released but haven't played litterally in ages so I'll be the suck now. Want to get back into it.

Edit brb looking up id code lol

Skeiron 317

[mitthrawn]

Edit: And i DONT like the Bunker nerf, with its huge building time it already costs alot of mining time. Now we can get only like 75 minerals back? Hell no :evil:
It costs a lot of mining time.... wait what? You gotta be trolling, seriously. You still get most of it back and before that change it was basically free building for Terran. :roll:

Overall good changes I would say. It might fix a bit of our beloved PvP.

[Vortex]

Wow, that might actually stop the 4wg insanity that every protoss player hates. Of course, now its going to be 1 base colossus pushes or blink stalkers all the time, but hey, its not 4wg anymore. Korean 4wg will be particularly dead, which is about fucking time. Looking forward to laddering again in the summer!

[Fallout]

Some hilarious replays with Day9 talking about them http://day9tv.blip.tv/

[sand]

Saw this in the TL Thread.....thought it was hilarious.

Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33.

Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.

[Tyrehl]

Edit: And i DONT like the Bunker nerf, with its huge building time it already costs alot of mining time. Now we can get only like 75 minerals back? Hell no :evil:
It costs a lot of mining time.... wait what? You gotta be trolling, seriously. You still get most of it back and before that change it was basically free building for Terran. :roll:

Overall good changes I would say. It might fix a bit of our beloved PvP.
The bunker doesnt multiply the damage output (per second) of your units, it only makes them last longer. Its not like a cannon or a spine crawler.
The build time is 40 seconds. Can you calculate how many minerals will a SCV mine for that period of time? Add 25 minerals (loss from the salvaging) to it and you will see how much it actually costs :( im not complaining that much, its just a 2nd nerf to the same structure.

And atm terran needs some tweaking (like the ghost buff) so we wont get steamrolled that much by late game toss with insane amount of forcefields (FOUR PER SENTRY? ARE YOU KIDDING ME, make forcefields 75 energy or something) / get wiped by a-move zergling+baneling roll in (oh and infestor's fungals). Actually the ghost will really help in these situations. Im really thinking about trying some mech but i'll improve my bio first.

:)

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Saw this in the TL Thread.....thought it was hilarious.

Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33.

Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.

Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.


Who needs 4 gate when you can just 2 gate and zealot rush them super early!

[Kazang]

To be fair the beta patch was a BETA patch. Which only lasted like a week or something, doing play tests of things just to see how they turn out is a good idea.

Having said that a chrono boosted zealot takes 23 seconds, which is shorter than a marine takes...... Proxy 2 gate is sooooo strong. Which is why they changed it to 38 in the first place.
I will be quite surprised if zealot build time is 33 in the release build.

[Vortex]

Given that there are much larger maps in the pool now than previous, perhaps the typical concern regarding proxies has gone down some. Proxying on Steppes of War is a lot easier than TD altar.

[Tyrehl]

Btw recently ive toyed with a TvP build which involves 1Rax FE into 5rax timing push ~10 min/10:30 min (needs tweaking and testing against an actual protoss). Does this sound viable, for example will i stay alive against a 3-gate pressure (or lol even a 4gate push) ? Sadly i havent had the chance to play against someone, just wondering if it looks good and ~kinda safe (without going into too much detail).
Imo the push should arrive when the protoss has just 1 collosus / has just expanded, eventually i will be able to do some damage and go back, get some medivacs(starport just finishes when i move out, reactor from the factory) and +1 upgrades (double eng. bay going down while im pushing), maybe 2 ghosts(need to check if i can squeeze the resources) and go for the kill (hmm vikings).


Edit: Any ETA of the 1.3.3 patch?

[Waagaa]

Given that there are much larger maps in the pool now than previous, perhaps the typical concern regarding proxies has gone down some. Proxying on Steppes of War is a lot easier than TD altar.

Not really because of distance, but because it is a 4-player map.
Any two-player map is easy to proxy on, distance doesn't matter a whole lot, because you can just send the probe out a bit quicker.

[Blutreiter]

I am still playing far too much Star Battle custom map. Cadets who do not buy engine upgrades at the beginning make me rage.

[Tyrehl]

Btw recently ive toyed with a TvP build which involves 1Rax FE into 5rax timing push ~10 min/10:30 min (needs tweaking and testing against an actual protoss). Does this sound viable, for example will i stay alive against a 3-gate pressure (or lol even a 4gate push) ? Sadly i havent had the chance to play against someone, just wondering if it looks good and ~kinda safe (without going into too much detail).
Imo the push should arrive when the protoss has just 1 collosus / has just expanded, eventually i will be able to do some damage and go back, get some medivacs(starport just finishes when i move out, reactor from the factory) and +1 upgrades (double eng. bay going down while im pushing), maybe 2 ghosts(need to check if i can squeeze the resources) and go for the kill (hmm vikings).


Edit: Any ETA of the 1.3.3 patch?


Edit: I just tried it against a plat Protoss on Xel Naga. I messed up a thing or two but i steamrolled him overall (lol he lost his Immortal + Collosus with his initial push at my natural).

Then THIS (http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9231/opterran.png) happened. He continued saying just OP TERRAN, ONLY 2 UNITS A-MOVE TO THE WIN etc. Which 2 units, collosus and sentry? I dont understand.

Does anyone want to watch the replay to check for holes in my strat? The first 5-6 minutes bother me, i dont know how safe this build is. Halp :)

[Pacefalm]

Ok so I lost my placement match and got put into Platinum >_>
Now I'm chain losing everything wtf blizz matchmaking.

[hinch]

Btw recently ive toyed with a TvP build which involves 1Rax FE into 5rax timing push ~10 min/10:30 min (needs tweaking and testing against an actual protoss). Does this sound viable, for example will i stay alive against a 3-gate pressure (or lol even a 4gate push) ? Sadly i havent had the chance to play against someone, just wondering if it looks good and ~kinda safe (without going into too much detail).
Imo the push should arrive when the protoss has just 1 collosus / has just expanded, eventually i will be able to do some damage and go back, get some medivacs(starport just finishes when i move out, reactor from the factory) and +1 upgrades (double eng. bay going down while im pushing), maybe 2 ghosts(need to check if i can squeeze the resources) and go for the kill (hmm vikings).


Edit: Any ETA of the 1.3.3 patch?


Edit: I just tried it against a plat Protoss on Xel Naga. I messed up a thing or two but i steamrolled him overall (lol he lost his Immortal + Collosus with his initial push at my natural).

Then THIS (http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9231/opterran.png) happened. He continued saying just OP TERRAN, ONLY 2 UNITS A-MOVE TO THE WIN etc. Which 2 units, collosus and sentry? I dont understand.

Does anyone want to watch the replay to check for holes in my strat? The first 5-6 minutes bother me, i dont know how safe this build is. Halp :)


sure hand it over


Ok so I lost my placement match and got put into Platinum >_>
Now I'm chain losing everything wtf blizz matchmaking.

FUUUUUUUU i'm STILL stuck in bronze i've just about given up tbh

[Tyrehl]

Btw recently ive toyed with a TvP build which involves 1Rax FE into 5rax timing push ~10 min/10:30 min (needs tweaking and testing against an actual protoss). Does this sound viable, for example will i stay alive against a 3-gate pressure (or lol even a 4gate push) ? Sadly i havent had the chance to play against someone, just wondering if it looks good and ~kinda safe (without going into too much detail).
Imo the push should arrive when the protoss has just 1 collosus / has just expanded, eventually i will be able to do some damage and go back, get some medivacs(starport just finishes when i move out, reactor from the factory) and +1 upgrades (double eng. bay going down while im pushing), maybe 2 ghosts(need to check if i can squeeze the resources) and go for the kill (hmm vikings).


Edit: Any ETA of the 1.3.3 patch?


Edit: I just tried it against a plat Protoss on Xel Naga. I messed up a thing or two but i steamrolled him overall (lol he lost his Immortal + Collosus with his initial push at my natural).

Then THIS (http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9231/opterran.png) happened. He continued saying just OP TERRAN, ONLY 2 UNITS A-MOVE TO THE WIN etc. Which 2 units, collosus and sentry? I dont understand.

Does anyone want to watch the replay to check for holes in my strat? The first 5-6 minutes bother me, i dont know how safe this build is. Halp :)


sure hand it over


Ok so I lost my placement match and got put into Platinum >_>
Now I'm chain losing everything wtf blizz matchmaking.

FUUUUUUUU i'm STILL stuck in bronze i've just about given up tbh

Upload some replays of you winning decent games (not "he cheesed, i scouted it") - i wanna see how far you've gone :)


Here's my rep
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-205760.jpg (http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=205760)

Edit: When i started answering to his bullshit i completely stopped to macro. While its understandable (it was obvious that the game was over) it's unacceptable.
Another thing i noticed is that i supply blocked myself when i threw down the 2 bunkers on my Natural. I need to tweak my 2nd gas timing and the bunker timing a bit more, i had no minerals for a depot.



Edit 2: @ Gilligan, can you check my rep and tell me if im reasonably (not 100% ofc, there is no such thing) safe with it in the beginning? My Eng bay is a bit late but i guess that if i scout well with the reaper i may spot DT's comin :)

[Gilligan]

Btw recently ive toyed with a TvP build which involves 1Rax FE into 5rax timing push ~10 min/10:30 min (needs tweaking and testing against an actual protoss). Does this sound viable, for example will i stay alive against a 3-gate pressure (or lol even a 4gate push) ? Sadly i havent had the chance to play against someone, just wondering if it looks good and ~kinda safe (without going into too much detail).
Imo the push should arrive when the protoss has just 1 collosus / has just expanded, eventually i will be able to do some damage and go back, get some medivacs(starport just finishes when i move out, reactor from the factory) and +1 upgrades (double eng. bay going down while im pushing), maybe 2 ghosts(need to check if i can squeeze the resources) and go for the kill (hmm vikings).


Edit: Any ETA of the 1.3.3 patch?


Edit: I just tried it against a plat Protoss on Xel Naga. I messed up a thing or two but i steamrolled him overall (lol he lost his Immortal + Collosus with his initial push at my natural).

Then THIS (http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9231/opterran.png) happened. He continued saying just OP TERRAN, ONLY 2 UNITS A-MOVE TO THE WIN etc. Which 2 units, collosus and sentry? I dont understand.

Does anyone want to watch the replay to check for holes in my strat? The first 5-6 minutes bother me, i dont know how safe this build is. Halp :)

Yes, that's a hugely powerful build vs Protoss. I believe it's been referred to as "barracks explosion" if you want to search TL for that for some guides. There's a variation that involves only marines that hits before colossus can reasonably be out, but I think the more standard marine/marauder is probably a better solution.

Post the replay if you want some specific comments, but the idea in general is a very good one.

[Tyrehl]

Bamp for Gilligan, check my last post (right before yours).

Just watched White-Ra's stream, great player. Has he actually won something recently? I really feel like he should :( that 2nd place @ dreamhack was :cut:

[Dark Flare]

Watched Day9s Back to Basics: Mechanics video. Am now winning games.

[Gilligan]

Bamp for Gilligan, check my last post (right before yours).

Just watched White-Ra's stream, great player. Has he actually won something recently? I really feel like he should :( that 2nd place @ dreamhack was :cut:

Whoo replays. Going to just start typing shit as I'm watching, keep in mind I play Protoss not Terran, so I'll be looking at it from that perspective. Also, sorry if I seem overly critical, I'm mostly going to be pointing out things that I see that need improving, since that's how you improve.

I'm not going to get too much into mechanics, but I think you know what you need to improve. Putting guys on gas as soon as it's done, not mis-rallying SCVs. You were banking a little more money than you probably should have, but your mechanics look mostly fine, just small improvements that are needed.

Let's talk about decision making. On 2 player maps, especially Xel'Naga, I'd scout for proxies. Didn't happen this game, but they are a bitch on that map especially, and it's worth it to check it out just in case with an SCV, especially if you're not scouting til after your rax like most people. Your mechanics do slip a few times as you're gearing up to float over to your expo, just keep an eye on that.

Not sure about the reaper scout. If your opponent had been aggressive, I think you'd have really wished that was a marauder. If you're scouting for something specific, like a stargate or something, sending a reaper in to do that is totally awesome. I felt like you were just building it for the sake of building it though. Find out what your build is weak to, and then if you feel you need to scout for certain things, then and only then should you grab that reaper. 1 rax is thin already, no reason to make it even weaker unless you're looking for something specific.

I don't like the 2 bunkers at your natural. They're so spread out, seems way too easy to just pick one off and ignore the other. When his push happens, one of them dies instantly, and the other one is too far to help with the battle. I want to point out I wrote that first critique before I watched the push :p

Lastly, don't GG first and then call your opponent rude when he gets mad, that's pretty BM.

Your build and mechanics were better than his. 3 gate robo is pretty hard to pull off vs a terran who FEs, unless you do damage. He was trying to tech to colossus, expand, and push all at the same time, and it predictably didn't work. If you really want to test your build, I'd suggest trying it against an aggressive 3 gate expansion, an agressive 3 gate robo (as opposed to whatever your opponent thought he was doing), and a 1 gate FE. Those are the 3 builds you're going to run into the most on ladder. I know it's possible to execute your build against all 3, but you probably need a little bit of refinement to do it consistently.

[Tyrehl]

Bamp for Gilligan, check my last post (right before yours).

Just watched White-Ra's stream, great player. Has he actually won something recently? I really feel like he should :( that 2nd place @ dreamhack was :cut:

Whoo replays. Going to just start typing shit as I'm watching, keep in mind I play Protoss not Terran, so I'll be looking at it from that perspective. Also, sorry if I seem overly critical, I'm mostly going to be pointing out things that I see that need improving, since that's how you improve.

I'm not going to get too much into mechanics, but I think you know what you need to improve. Putting guys on gas as soon as it's done, not mis-rallying SCVs. You were banking a little more money than you probably should have, but your mechanics look mostly fine, just small improvements that are needed.

Let's talk about decision making. On 2 player maps, especially Xel'Naga, I'd scout for proxies. Didn't happen this game, but they are a bitch on that map especially, and it's worth it to check it out just in case with an SCV, especially if you're not scouting til after your rax like most people. Your mechanics do slip a few times as you're gearing up to float over to your expo, just keep an eye on that.

Not sure about the reaper scout. If your opponent had been aggressive, I think you'd have really wished that was a marauder. If you're scouting for something specific, like a stargate or something, sending a reaper in to do that is totally awesome. I felt like you were just building it for the sake of building it though. Find out what your build is weak to, and then if you feel you need to scout for certain things, then and only then should you grab that reaper. 1 rax is thin already, no reason to make it even weaker unless you're looking for something specific.

I don't like the 2 bunkers at your natural. They're so spread out, seems way too easy to just pick one off and ignore the other. When his push happens, one of them dies instantly, and the other one is too far to help with the battle. I want to point out I wrote that first critique before I watched the push :p

Lastly, don't GG first and then call your opponent rude when he gets mad, that's pretty BM.

Your build and mechanics were better than his. 3 gate robo is pretty hard to pull off vs a terran who FEs, unless you do damage. He was trying to tech to colossus, expand, and push all at the same time, and it predictably didn't work. If you really want to test your build, I'd suggest trying it against an aggressive 3 gate expansion, an agressive 3 gate robo (as opposed to whatever your opponent thought he was doing), and a 1 gate FE. Those are the 3 builds you're going to run into the most on ladder. I know it's possible to execute your build against all 3, but you probably need a little bit of refinement to do it consistently.


:D

Until now i actually didnt realised that saying "gg" when my opponent is losing is BM. I'll keep it in mind :) . WIth the "you are rude" part i was just making fun of him, i hate when people start to whine (ive also done it at some point :D ).
About the reaper, he could've killed maybe 1 more probe or something but i just walked it in. I really did it just "for the sake of building it". I 'll keep that in mind :)

Really thanks about the advices, i'll practice more today and then i'll try some games :)


Edit: Any suggestions about the bunkers? That part is especially unclear to me on Xel'Naga Caverns. Maybe a third one and a Supply depot on the side so i can spot attacks from there? Hmmh

[Lexa Hellfury]

Warp Prisms are fun 8-)

[DevilDude]

Bamp for Gilligan, check my last post (right before yours).

Just watched White-Ra's stream, great player. Has he actually won something recently? I really feel like he should :( that 2nd place @ dreamhack was :cut:

Whoo replays. Going to just start typing shit as I'm watching, keep in mind I play Protoss not Terran, so I'll be looking at it from that perspective. Also, sorry if I seem overly critical, I'm mostly going to be pointing out things that I see that need improving, since that's how you improve.

I'm not going to get too much into mechanics, but I think you know what you need to improve. Putting guys on gas as soon as it's done, not mis-rallying SCVs. You were banking a little more money than you probably should have, but your mechanics look mostly fine, just small improvements that are needed.

Let's talk about decision making. On 2 player maps, especially Xel'Naga, I'd scout for proxies. Didn't happen this game, but they are a bitch on that map especially, and it's worth it to check it out just in case with an SCV, especially if you're not scouting til after your rax like most people. Your mechanics do slip a few times as you're gearing up to float over to your expo, just keep an eye on that.

Not sure about the reaper scout. If your opponent had been aggressive, I think you'd have really wished that was a marauder. If you're scouting for something specific, like a stargate or something, sending a reaper in to do that is totally awesome. I felt like you were just building it for the sake of building it though. Find out what your build is weak to, and then if you feel you need to scout for certain things, then and only then should you grab that reaper. 1 rax is thin already, no reason to make it even weaker unless you're looking for something specific.

I don't like the 2 bunkers at your natural. They're so spread out, seems way too easy to just pick one off and ignore the other. When his push happens, one of them dies instantly, and the other one is too far to help with the battle. I want to point out I wrote that first critique before I watched the push :p

Lastly, don't GG first and then call your opponent rude when he gets mad, that's pretty BM.

Your build and mechanics were better than his. 3 gate robo is pretty hard to pull off vs a terran who FEs, unless you do damage. He was trying to tech to colossus, expand, and push all at the same time, and it predictably didn't work. If you really want to test your build, I'd suggest trying it against an aggressive 3 gate expansion, an agressive 3 gate robo (as opposed to whatever your opponent thought he was doing), and a 1 gate FE. Those are the 3 builds you're going to run into the most on ladder. I know it's possible to execute your build against all 3, but you probably need a little bit of refinement to do it consistently.


:D

Until now i actually didnt realised that saying "gg" when my opponent is losing is BM. I'll keep it in mind :) . WIth the "you are rude" part i was just making fun of him, i hate when people start to whine (ive also done it at some point :D ).
About the reaper, he could've killed maybe 1 more probe or something but i just walked it in. I really did it just "for the sake of building it". I 'll keep that in mind :)

Really thanks about the advices, i'll practice more today and then i'll try some games :)


Edit: Any suggestions about the bunkers? That part is especially unclear to me on Xel'Naga Caverns. Maybe a third one and a Supply depot on the side so i can spot attacks from there? Hmmh
it's also a good way to look stupid sometimes, for instance when you rush reapers and die to voidrays.

[hinch]

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1673 ... m-altar-le (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/167382-1v1-terran-protoss-taldarim-altar-le)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1669 ... etalopolis (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166942-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1666 ... etalopolis (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166627-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1665 ... ater-gulch (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166571-1v1-terran-protoss-backwater-gulch)

all non cheese from both sides

something i am noticing i'm doing too much off is i'm holding back i get the macro right end up miles ahead of the opponent and yet never press teh advantage, really need to work on that.

[Tyrehl]

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/167382-1v1-terran-protoss-taldarim-altar-le
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1669 ... etalopolis (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166942-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1666 ... etalopolis (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166627-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1665 ... ater-gulch (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/166571-1v1-terran-protoss-backwater-gulch)

all non cheese from both sides

something i am noticing i'm doing too much off is i'm holding back i get the macro right end up miles ahead of the opponent and yet never press teh advantage, really need to work on that.
1st game / @ Taldarim Altar:
I must admit that i watched it mostly on time 4-8, its damn long o.O

-Between 6:16 and 8:55 >NO probe production<. This is huge (at least). Really, imo while playing in bronze you should decide to start working on certain aspects of your play. I would start with probe production.
Another thing - map control. You had stalkers, he had no marauders for the first 8 minutes of the game. Stalkers are >> Marines, you should've walked around and killed some (at the watchtowers), you should've also poked at his front. Relying on the observer to see whats coming is really a bad thing. With just 2 forcefields available at 9:00 (1 sentry) every decent Terran will roflstomp you :) With 1-2 more sentries instead of stalkers you could've expanded earlier.

- 9:05 You chronoboosted your nexus and didnt queue 1 more probe (wasted chrono). No probe production for another 40 seconds :(
Your expansion Nexus is up, but you can pull like only 5-6 workers from your main :( practice your Probe production, you will really feel it when you expand :)

- Dont rally your probes from the nexus directly to the gas. Send them to the minerals and just pull 3 when the Assimilator is done.

- You are behind on income :( and on workers (ok i'll stop repeating that :D )

- Finally at 16+ minute you are ahead at supply, but 1 base behind and you have no map vision (except that little dot on the minimap where your observer is). The terran could've quadripple-expanded (or whatever the word is) :<


- Arrrgh, at 19:48 i see only 48 workers in total. Not nearly enough :(

- 21:42 Traaaaansfer probes! :D

- 23:10 Pew pew, big battle. You did well, but where are your reinforcements? :( Oh here they are, they arrived a bit too late. You were about to pull ahead and probably end the game :( Your income finally started to get higher, that third should've been running earlier :) More workers = more money for nice stuff like expos and army. Just 5 warpgates that late into the game is not enough :(

- DT's are great :D

- 34:00 Umm some vikings were shelling one colossus really hard (omg they actually killed him :D ). Happens but ..

Aand dont stop macroing even if you are winning. Warp in more units, get more production buildings if you are maxed etc.


Im kinda bad at the game but these were the things that i noticed while watching the replay at ~ high speed (sry it was a long game :D ).I may watch the other games later today/tomorrow as i need to practice a bit before i go out. TL; DR: Work on your probe production.

[hinch]

yeah i'm aware that i'm not upto the skill level of some of you guys especially the whole macro/probe issue more recently i've tried to focus on getting more probes out but then i always feel i'm behind in army as i've been spending minerals on probes.

i'm also aware my transfer to midgame is flakey sometimes I hit it perfectly and other times i get a little lost especially if there's a battle going on i completely forget about macro.

having said that though i'm still considerably better than everyone else in bronze :( getting harder match ups will force me to focus on actually playing better at the moment I can pretty much roflstomp everyone while even being shit


edit: other games are shorter that one i could have finished after taking down his first push but for some reason i didn't press the advantage.

[Tyrehl]

yeah i'm aware that i'm not upto the skill level of some of you guys especially the whole macro/probe issue more recently i've tried to focus on getting more probes out but then i always feel i'm behind in army as i've been spending minerals on probes.

i'm also aware my transfer to midgame is flakey sometimes I hit it perfectly and other times i get a little lost especially if there's a battle going on i completely forget about macro.

having said that though i'm still considerably better than everyone else in bronze :( getting harder match ups will force me to focus on actually playing better at the moment I can pretty much roflstomp everyone while even being shit


edit: other games are shorter that one i could have finished after taking down his first push but for some reason i didn't press the advantage.



When i get sober i'll watch them. Btw if you get promoted that will not influence anything at all, your opponents arent chosen by your league. The league just represents your e-peen and your relative skill level (often not really acurate).
Just dont look at it, promotion or not you'll get the same opponents like now. If you are mostly playing against silver/gold players you shouldnt care about your league.

[Lexa Hellfury]

In the top 5 in my Bronze league, am consistently beating Silver players that I am getting matched up against, will get promoted soon :D

[Rans]

In the top 5 in my Bronze league, am consistently beating Silver players that I am getting matched up against, will get promoted soon :D
give me your id fage

[Lexa Hellfury]

In the top 5 in my Bronze league, am consistently beating Silver players that I am getting matched up against, will get promoted soon :D
give me your id fage

Hellfury
863

[Tyrehl]

yeah i'm aware that i'm not upto the skill level of some of you guys especially the whole macro/probe issue more recently i've tried to focus on getting more probes out but then i always feel i'm behind in army as i've been spending minerals on probes.

i'm also aware my transfer to midgame is flakey sometimes I hit it perfectly and other times i get a little lost especially if there's a battle going on i completely forget about macro.

having said that though i'm still considerably better than everyone else in bronze :( getting harder match ups will force me to focus on actually playing better at the moment I can pretty much roflstomp everyone while even being shit


edit: other games are shorter that one i could have finished after taking down his first push but for some reason i didn't press the advantage.


hinch T vs Z jaqbek on Meta:

Try with Pylon on 9, there is a short period of time where you cant make your probe but if you learn to split your workers in the beginning (not needed at all until diamond i would say) you can even reduce it to minimum. Nvm, its just better at 9 imo :)


You skipped a probe around 12 food, try to always have 1 in production and (>later into the game you can queue 2 probes so when the first gets produced you have some time to see that you need to add 1 more).

Is the build some variation of a 3gate robo into expand? Im not good @ Toss openings so i wont comment on that. I'll just mention that your WG research finishes a bit late (just IMO).

Some more probes get delayed, but its not that huge (if you work on it :P ).

Amm again, no map vision. The watchtowers were completely unoccupied. The probe that was used to block the zerg's expo - you can pull it behind the minerals or to the side at some point, it wont scout shit if 2 roaches 1shoot it and you dont need to waste minerals and time to build a new one (for a proxy Pylon, poke at the front etc). Another good idea is to pull another probe and set some waypoints to the other expos for sneaky expansions :)

Expand before you push out :P Btw 24 probes in total in your main, 10 min 40 sec. Not enough :( i guess im getting annoying with that, but you really need base and a half saturation when you expand (if you have enough probes for 1 base on mining on two nexuses you are only spreading them a bit, you are not on 2 bases at all).

10:34 wopsie, you probably had your WG's selected (and you didnt tab for the Gateways) so you morphed them back : D happens, keep it in mind as at some point it might hit you at a bad time.

You are mostly clicking on the minimap and not using your screen scroll, right? You should do so (s.scroll) when you move and micro with your army :) Install this app http://iographica.com/ - it records your mouse movements, launch it before you start Starcraft next time. Play some games and see the results. If you are using the screen scroll too much you will notice it (learning to use the minimap and also watch it to spot drops etc is one of the hardest things for me at least :( ).

You remembered to warp in some more units while you were fighting, thats really good. Check all of your games and see if you've missed some WG cycles while pushing against someone. I also am a bit worried about your income, its really low and you couldnt expand at all ( o.O ).

2/4 so far, more to come tomorraw! : <



Edit: NEVER skip probes for army, you are not wasting minerals at all. There are some builds where it is viable to cut some probes but your timings arent that good yet. Just dont do it, the only case where its acceptable its if you are getting attacked and you need that half zealot to survive :D

:)

[Lexa Hellfury]

As Protoss, how do you counter a 6-pool? His zerglings are in my base before I even have my gateway finished.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Your probes will kill the lings and you should really have a Zealot out in time to assist if he keeps up the pressure.

[Lexa Hellfury]

Ok, I've now lost to back-to-back-to-back cheeses (4gate, 6-pool, DT rush). Getting p aggravated.

[hinch]

As Protoss, how do you counter a 6-pool? His zerglings are in my base before I even have my gateway finished.

in bronze i default to opening with forge into gateway and complete wall off with a cannon

as toss you can aford to sit on 1 base for a while (just not too long) vs zerg even on a 6 pool you can get cannon up before his lings get to you (only works on small ramps where you can block with 2buildings)

[Davd]

Ok, I've now lost to back-to-back-to-back cheeses (4gate, 6-pool, DT rush). Getting p aggravated.

What league are you playing in?

[hinch]

Try with Pylon on 9, there is a short period of time where you cant make your probe but if you learn to split your workers in the beginning (not needed at all until diamond i would say) you can even reduce it to minimum. Nvm, its just better at 9 imo :)


i always 9 pylon so if i didn't its an odd game out where i must have forgot.

usually my standard opening is 9 pylon, 12 gateway -probe to scout if i remember/feel like it scouting really not required in bronze- 13 assim + 2nd pylon, 14 cyber

then after that i usually stick up 2 more gate ways into robo though sometimes i delay robo get 2nd gas go stalkers (i like my stalkers)

[Lucifer Fellblade]

There's something going wrong with your build, a 12 gate and constant probe production means the gate doesnt finish until 16/17, meaning that's the earliest you can get a cyber. Second pylon should be fine at 16 as well, no need for making it so early.

Either not constantly building probes or not chronoboosting, 2-3 probes is a big difference in what you can build.

9 pylon allows constant production of probes, as does 13 gate which I like because I'm a more macro orientated player.

[Lexa Hellfury]

I do 9 pylon, 13 gateway, 14 assimilator, 15 pylon, and I literally had zerglings in my base before my gateway was finished, I was like, wtf.

Just lost a very good 36 minute macro game PvT, was a ton of fun, unfortunately his build/macro was too good and I just could not hold my expansions.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

That's the danger with 13 gate, a 12 gate should be early enough to let you chrono out a zealot when you see it coming (I like to scout with the pylon drone rather than gate drone, after scouting my own base).

[Vortex]

Your probes will kill the lings and you should really have a Zealot out in time to assist if he keeps up the pressure.

No, no, do not fight zerglings with probes in a 6 pool situation. While its theoretically possible to do so by switching probes around as their shields fail, your not going to micro them correctly and your going to lose all of them. Even 9 probes vs 6 zergligns is going to leave you crippled, and the zerg will either drone up and get more ahead, or just pump zerglings and kill you. There is also the potential for them to just kill your pylon depending how it all pans out, which will also screw you just as hard. Even progamers can lose trying to micro probes and zealots vs a well executed 6 pool, and the micro burden is a lot higher on the protoss's side than zergs.

Scout with the probe that builds 9 pylon, and if you see a 6 pool, completely wall in and throw a cannon up to defend the ramp. There is no need to try to fight on the z's terms when you can wall and eco up. An easy transition into 3 gate expand or 3 gate stalkers or 4wg or whatever you want can easily win from here. The zerg's only recourse if you wall and cannon correctly is to try a hard switch to baenlings. Simply have sentries ready before then - you'll have gas well before the zerg does. Theres just no reason to fight it out probe to probe when a full wall works so much more reliably.

A chronoed zealot from a 9 pylon/12 gate will NOT be out before zerglings are around in your base if the zerg is 6 pooling correctly.

[hinch]

i don't normally chrono nexus i save it for cyber and getting first zealot or stalker out

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Steppes of War 6 pool vs Protoss:

Lings arrive at your mineral line at 2:56.

12 gate (with a scout that sees 6 pool after making the pylon) has 15 probes and a zealot half done by 2:56, If you lose 15 probes to 6 lings you are a cripple.

2 pylons covering the same gate, so not much chance of them taking that out and stopping the gateway. This is on Steppes of War, any other map you can easily have a zealot out in time, if you walled off right you can have him sat in a choke and be safe and sound. Meanwhile the zerg is sitting on his ass wondering what he's gonna do with 6 drones.

[Nyx Opet]

A standard zealot block doesn't work on blizzard 4 player maps versus a competent 6pooler. Stop spreading this bad information.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

If that was directed at me I can't comment on that if it's something that's changed/been discovered since I've not actively laddered in a long time. Either way for the discussion it shouldn't really matter, it's still fairly simple to hold of for a player with a solid grasp of his build even without the walloff.

[Vortex]

No, no its really not. The only way your going to even get a 1-slot zealot wall by the time a 6 pool arrives is with a pylon edge + gate wall, which is extremely weak and may be broken by a head on attack of zerglings, banelings, 7RR, etc. Because the zealot is also trying to block a diagonal slot, there is a strong chance that zerglings can squeeze through when he rotates to swing his blades (not that the zealot will be there before the lings anyways). There is a reason gate+cyber is the standard wall: pylon+gate is just too weak and vulnerable to early game shenanigans.

Using your own timings fell, those lings just killed your pylon - fuck going after probes. The pylon is dead, there are no more gateway units coming, and more zerglings on the way. Even if the zealot pops before the pylon goes down, it will either hug a corner for dear life, or get surrounded and die. Pulling enough probes from the front to actually matter (and not just become easy casualties) just changes the game to zerglings kiting around forever and picking things off while the zerg builds a queen and power-injects drones while you aren't mining. This may not lose you the game immediately, but you will lose too much mining time (or probes, or pylons) to come back.

Walling is the safe answer. Absolutely worst case? The game moves to the med game on equal footing (with the zerg in a defensive position), but you'll probably either outright win from the zerg failing to break through, or P moving out with a miniature death-ball.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

I know that walling off completely will work, but it's not the only option, not trying to argue that either is better but to explain how I always did it. I would rather risk a bit and have an advantage than turtle up and go even when he all-ins me. My experience is a few months old but I doubt much has changed that would affect 6 pool vs toss after the zealot build time (which they are changing back anyway).

Firstly, I didn't wall off at the ramp, I never bothered since it just puts your buildings at risk from bane busts or 7 roach rushes let alone 6 pools, specifically the pylon like you said. The worst thing you can do against a 6 pool is to split up your units so keeping your gates next to your drones means he can never surround the zealots.

Generally I would place the first pylon next to the nexus and the first gateway next to the gas and the pylon, gives a nice wall around your probes that you can block off fully with a second gate behind the minerals. You should always have the second pylon in place 3-4 food before the lings arrive and you should always make sure they both cover your gates. The pylons themselves are covered by the gateway, the lings have to go into the probes to hit either of them where they get surrounded by the probes and killed off.

Pull all the probes off until you get a single zealot then send half back to mine, roam and scare him away if he tries to attack the other sides. These aren't speedlings so if he tries to go the long way round you just push him off with your 'army'. As soon as you have 2 zealots out his rush is completely ruined and you can drop a cyber if you haven't already.

Walling is probably the safe answer, but it's not like this method is particularly risky either, it saves you wasting minerals on a forge/cannons and the probes you would have to cut to get them out at the cost of some probes of your own (I'd guesstimate 5-6 probes lost).

Messed up and got a bit supply blocked so the zealot is a bit late and couldn't be arsed to do it again, but something like this (swap the pylon cos I was thinking about doing it this way in future, but it's probably not needed):

http://i.imgur.com/3nCAw.jpg

[Vortex]

Ah yes, if your building structures in the mineral line then <10 pools are considerably less dangerous. I don't like how vulnerable you become to speedlings/speed roaches w/o a wall, but the close proximity and walled angles does have that one advantage. The standard gate/cyber Walls aren't vulnerable to 7RR if you respond to scouting information correctly; If anything, the massive amount of surface area to micro in a near-nexus building placement would make the roaches much more dangerous than killing them on a ramp w/ a sentry + stalkers/turrets... though thats not really here nor there.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Myth busted 8-) .

[Davd]

Loose three of my last 4 matches, get promoted to Gold (rank 16) :feelsgood:

[Tyrehl]

Damn, i finally started doing some ladder games. I have a decent (~solid) opening in TvP (if i execute it right), just an idea for TvZ (2rax FE and then i do whatever i feel like :/ ) and nothing for TvT. So i played 3 games, won 2 (vs zerg and toss) and lost my TvT one. I planned to do some push / contain but i ended up sitting in my base, doing a fail drop (lol) and realising that the other terran already has a 2nd base up and running. :( from there i just got further and further behind.
At least im playing against platinum guys and not gold / something else as its terrible to lose against a players from a lower league all the time :oops:

[Pacefalm]

Apparently the league system also gives scores based on in-game performance rather than only wins/losses, ie. your average unspent resources, worker count, research and tech, units produced & killed and all that stuff. So you could win all the time and be stuck in bronze or lose all the time and be placed in platinum.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

That's what I thought at first but after about 20 pages of discussion over it we found it doesn't, it's just a complicated average that works in a roundabout way.

[Lexa Hellfury]

Apparently the league system also gives scores based on in-game performance rather than only wins/losses, ie. your average unspent resources, worker count, research and tech, units produced & killed and all that stuff. So you could win all the time and be stuck in bronze or lose all the time and be placed in platinum.

Explains why all the faggot cheesers are in bronze.

I actually do want to try a cheese just once, I've never done it.

[Seifyr33]

Explains why all the faggot cheesers are in bronze.


Posting to confirm I cheesed my way into diamond

[sand]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=195273 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273)

Everything and anything you ever wanted to know on how the ladder system works - they have it all down...

[Beardface]

So can chat channels be created in this new BNET? And if so why aren't there some up for our FHC'ers so we can all rage about 4gates and proxy hatches togheter?

Also I just had a match vs a gold terran player. He was absolutely terrible/obviously didn't know what he was doing so I convo him after the game to give him advice and links, and he just doesn't say anything. Guess that teaches me to nice in this game.

[Tyrehl]

So can chat channels be created in this new BNET? And if so why aren't there some up for our FHC'ers so we can all rage about 4gates and proxy hatches togheter?

Also I just had a match vs a gold terran player. He was absolutely terrible/obviously didn't know what he was doing so I convo him after the game to give him advice and links, and he just doesn't say anything. Guess that teaches me to nice in this game.
:D

Aand yes there are, when you open the chat channels tab there is a field where you can enter a channel name to create / join if existing. Signing up for a fhc chan, LF custom games is always terrible and the other ones are useless / empty anyway.

Plx @ someone with big enough SC-peen, create a channel and let us know (im EU btw, there's one for USA afaik).

[hinch]

you can do it you're the highest ranked UK out of us all aren't you ? :)

[Tyrehl]

you can do it you're the highest ranked UK out of us all aren't you ? :)
Highest ranked Eu maybe, im not UK :D

Aaand im just platinum, there are people way above me iirc (though they may be not so active in this topic ? ). Dunno

Currently on a semi-winning "streak" (lol i lost a game but i macroed bad and got overrun by roaches). Interestingly enough a zerg player gave me alot of trouble, i barely managed to beat his ling/bling/infestor army (with some roaches).

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-206503.jpg (http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=download&id=206503)

Advices? I havent had the chance to watch the replay yet.

[sand]

I just can't seem to get out of diamond, bleh. Hovering between rank 1-5 depending on how often I play - it probably comes down to mechanics failing. Getting APM up and stopping the influx of minerals is a pain....I just won a commanding match against a masters player but I had like 2k minerals when I won. (Well I was at 200/200).

[hinch]

i meant EU my fingers they not be agreeing with my brain today also fairly sure you're the highest EU since iirc sand is US :)

[Beardface]

Went through the replay real quick, noticed you have two hellions right next to your reactor'd factory since you started building out of it and to the end of the game, and you have some siege tanks stuck in the north supply depot forest as well.

I saw you got some missile turrets in the mid-game whilst not scouting any spire play from the zerg. While that's usually what the zerg will do I think that confirming it with a scan is preferrable to putting down ~700 worth of turrets down.

Your third base gets up and into a PF, but you don't send any SCVs to it for a while (until after you mined out your main iirc?). I feel like you could've gotten so many bases while containing the zerg, since you we're also floating loads of minerals at some points during the game, your macro definately was slipping.

I think you could've moved on the zerg's third way earlier and forced the engagement there with siege tanks on the highground or some such but maybe that wouldn't have been good idea, dunno(or just perched some tanks there to siege the hatch). Marine spillting is something you might want to learn in order to more easily deal with banelings easier, but it needs very high APM I guess. Maybe drop play would've been able to give you a more clear advantage, hellion drops (since you were going to preigniter) or marauder drops to kill tech buildings.

Then again I am a :lolsilver: level toss player, so take this with a punch of salt (also someone make the eu channel please! :D)

[Tyrehl]

Went through the replay real quick, noticed you have two hellions right next to your reactor'd factory since you started building out of it and to the end of the game, and you have some siege tanks stuck in the north supply depot forest as well.

I saw you got some missile turrets in the mid-game whilst not scouting any spire play from the zerg. While that's usually what the zerg will do I think that confirming it with a scan is preferrable to putting down ~700 worth of turrets down.

Your third base gets up and into a PF, but you don't send any SCVs to it for a while (until after you mined out your main iirc?). I feel like you could've gotten so many bases while containing the zerg, since you we're also floating loads of minerals at some points during the game, your macro definately was slipping.

I think you could've moved on the zerg's third way earlier and forced the engagement there with siege tanks on the highground or some such but maybe that wouldn't have been good idea, dunno(or just perched some tanks there to siege the hatch). Marine spillting is something you might want to learn in order to more easily deal with banelings easier, but it needs very high APM I guess. Maybe drop play would've been able to give you a more clear advantage, hellion drops (since you were going to preigniter) or marauder drops to kill tech buildings.

Then again I am a :lolsilver: level toss player, so take this with a punch of salt (also someone make the eu channel please! :D)

Welp :D

Btw i tried the marine split challenge map with the patrol-split. Sadly i feel it kinda hard to execute in an actual game. Hmmm



Join "FHC" (on EU) :) i hope we'll populate it (tell whoever you know, we need a channel for practice matches etc).

[Lexa Hellfury]

Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

[hinch]

forge first :)

[Duun Suhuy]

Anyone have any recommendations for PvZ builds? I seem to only be able to win if I use stargates early to harass, but it just feels so awkward for me. I find it very strange that I cannot beat zerg with my much smoother gates and robo play and I wtfpwn with this awkward crap stargate nonsense... I suppose I'll just have to suck it up. But Zerg is by far the most difficult for me as a Plat player. I haven't lost to a Terran in a while, I have a two gate expo build that stops MM cold, it's worked well for me. And my PvP is getting better. I've been doing quite well with Adels two gate zealot rush into expo +3 gates. Only times I lose is when I botch something dumb early.

Again, I'm a pretty crappy plat player. Advice welcome. Also available for practice matches in late US TZ.

[Gilligan]

Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

You have to scout it, there's no other way. Scout on 9 after your pylon, check close position first. If you're on a map with close air positions like Shattered Temple or Metalopolis, send a probe over to the back of your base to check for an overlord around 11-12 supply, that way you can skip cross positions with your scouting probe which is important. Once you see the pool is up, COUNT DRONES. You need to react to a six pool very differently than a 10 pool. If they're six pooling and you scout them last, you're fucked unless they make a huge mistake. Still, you have a 66% chance that you'll scout them 1st or 2nd, (higher on maps with close air positions where you can check their overlord) which should give you enough time to prepare.

If it is indeed a 6 pool, pull all your probes off gas and throw down a forge and a pylon at your ramp to completely wall yourself in. A smart zerg will focus down your gateway before your cannon finishes, you need to be prepared to throw down another building behind the gateway to re-wall, otherwise the lings will just run past and into your probe line. If your gateway is going to die, don't forget to build a cyber core before it goes down, otherwise your tech will be way behind.

This is the safest way to do it, but it does put you on a defensive footing because you end up spending 300 minerals on static defenses. Still, you should have so many more workers than the zerg that you should be able to take a large economic lead and win.

[Waagaa]

Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

He 6-pooled you, which means he has a lot less workers than you. His economy is in shambles.
Run around your probes, chrono out a zealot.
If he hits your pylon, attack the lings with your probes and run away soon as his lings attack your probes.
when the zealot pops out, attack lings with zealot + probes.

You will lose some probes, but will still be ahead in economy.

Proceed to win.

[Vortex]

Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

Scout and wall. Its really that simple. If you scout last on a 4 player map with relatively close run positions (like delta quadrant) you can be in real trouble though.




If it is indeed a 6 pool, pull all your probes off gas and throw down a forge and a pylon at your ramp to completely wall yourself in. A smart zerg will focus down your gateway before your cannon finishes, you need to be prepared to throw down another building behind the gateway to re-wall, otherwise the lings will just run past and into your probe line. If your gateway is going to die, don't forget to build a cyber core before it goes down, otherwise your tech will be way behind.


Woot, somebody else also gets it. Although the zerg would actually kill the forge, given it has so much less HP than the gateway and stops further cannons from being thrown down.



Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

He 6-pooled you, which means he has a lot less workers than you. His economy is in shambles.
Run around your probes, chrono out a zealot.
If he hits your pylon, attack the lings with your probes and run away soon as his lings attack your probes.
when the zealot pops out, attack lings with zealot + probes.

You will lose some probes, but will still be ahead in economy.


He will either kill the pylon, the zealot, or all your probes. Fighting probes to lings is a really quick way to lose, as while probes can be microed around to regenerate shields, even programers can't do so all that reliably. So unless you have whitera level micro, forget it, your going to lose all of them, or enough to be out of the running. Plus, all the time your probes are out at your front trying to stop pylon death is lost mining time, so the economic advantage is really not at all in your court either even if you brilliantly defend with probes and positioning.


Anyone have any recommendations for PvZ builds? I seem to only be able to win if I use stargates early to harass, but it just feels so awkward for me. I find it very strange that I cannot beat zerg with my much smoother gates and robo play and I wtfpwn with this awkward crap stargate nonsense... I suppose I'll just have to suck it up. But Zerg is by far the most difficult for me as a Plat player.

3 gate expand into any damn thing you want. Its simple, safe, keeps economic parity, and often parlays into a brutal mid-game timing push, esp. the 6gate + upgrades variant. Get good at 3 gate expand and you'll get good at the fundamentals of PVZ, and not rely on early-game gimmick builds to turn it into a victory. The reason your probably having so much success with stargates is because lower-level Z don't build enough queens early on (and their creep spread is lacking for those queens to maneuver), so air play can be devastating. Stargate is still great at higher levels of play, but it goes like banshee openings - you aggressively tech for a handful of units, and you must do some damage with them. If you don't your behind, if you do your even, if you do a lot your ahead.

[Waagaa]

Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

He 6-pooled you, which means he has a lot less workers than you. His economy is in shambles.
Run around your probes, chrono out a zealot.
If he hits your pylon, attack the lings with your probes and run away soon as his lings attack your probes.
when the zealot pops out, attack lings with zealot + probes.

You will lose some probes, but will still be ahead in economy.


He will either kill the pylon, the zealot, or all your probes. Fighting probes to lings is a really quick way to lose, as while probes can be microed around to regenerate shields, even programers can't do so all that reliably. So unless you have whitera level micro, forget it, your going to lose all of them, or enough to be out of the running. Plus, all the time your probes are out at your front trying to stop pylon death is lost mining time, so the economic advantage is really not at all in your court either even if you brilliantly defend with probes and positioning.



This is why you join your zealot with your probes. I've done this before in diamond/platinum league. 6 lings are defeatable with just your probes, but to not lose too many you wait for that zealot to come out. Will be even easier with the new patch. Of course scouting it and walling is better, but not always an option. Also, 10-gating by default solves this and makes this into a BO-win. 10-gate is a bit worse on the eco though, of course.

[Beardface]

Anyone have any recommendations for PvZ builds? I seem to only be able to win if I use stargates early to harass, but it just feels so awkward for me. I find it very strange that I cannot beat zerg with my much smoother gates and robo play and I wtfpwn with this awkward crap stargate nonsense... I suppose I'll just have to suck it up. But Zerg is by far the most difficult for me as a Plat player. I haven't lost to a Terran in a while, I have a two gate expo build that stops MM cold, it's worked well for me. And my PvP is getting better. I've been doing quite well with Adels two gate zealot rush into expo +3 gates. Only times I lose is when I botch something dumb early.

Again, I'm a pretty crappy plat player. Advice welcome. Also available for practice matches in late US TZ.


A build I like a lot is a 3-gate DT rush into expansion. 9/10 in my bronze/silver matches I've been either been able to outright win, or get so ahead economically and just win after that. You get your DTs out before the 7 minute (in-game mark) which is when lair tech is starting/halfway, if he goes for an evo you can usually snipe it or just ignore it and go for massive drone kills. Doing a 2-1 split into main/expo usually gets the most drone kills.

A nice transition from what I've been playing with is 6 gate 2 robo with colossi and blink (to counter corruptors) with upgrades mixed in. Maybe it's due to the fact that my macro is terrbile that I can support all that, but eh. Also occasionally DT trolling/denying expos is nice, and having them mixed in your army = massive deeps if your opponent has no overseer.

The exact buildorder is on the liquidopedia btw.

[Pacefalm]

Confirming that early cloaked harass is awful to defend against as zerg.

Also 100th post

[Waagaa]

Confirming that early cloaked harass is awful to defend against as zerg.

Also 100th post

You will have lair by the time his Dark Shrine start building?! :) Overseers don't cost supply and are great scouts to boot, I don't see the problem?

[Tyrehl]

Confirming that early cloaked harass is awful to defend against as zerg.

Also 100th post

You will have lair by the time his Dark Shrine start building?! :) Overseers don't cost supply and are great scouts to boot, I don't see the problem?
Their builds arent refined so the lair starts too late :)

[Tai]

Oh my god TLO v. Spanishiwa :shock:

[Lexa Hellfury]

Oh my god TLO v. Spanishiwa :shock:

Yeah that was a little lopsided.

[Tyrehl]

Oh my god TLO v. Spanishiwa :shock:

Yeah that was a little lopsided.
Like wtf O.O


: /

I like both players btw

[Davd]

Oh my god TLO v. Spanishiwa :shock:

Yeah that was a little lopsided.

Who won? Link?

[Tyrehl]

Oh my god TLO v. Spanishiwa :shock:

Yeah that was a little lopsided.

Who won? Link?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=218066 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218066)

I wont tell you :)

[Davd]

Oh my god TLO v. Spanishiwa :shock:

Yeah that was a little lopsided.

Who won? Link?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=218066 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218066)

I wont tell you :)

Much appreciated, I'll take a look at them after class today :companioncube:

[Rans]

Spanishiwa is such a goddamn beast. Idra's macro with huk's scouting=some pretty epic matches.

[Tai]

I've been trying the Spanishiwa style of Zerg and holy shit is it fun. Having some trouble timing my third base but after three matches last night, mostly against Protoss, I didn't even need to take it. A 3 gate Zealot rush and an attempted 4 gate held off by Queens, two Spines and regular 'lings.

Holy fuck I didn't know I could play like that.

e: 4 Queens is fucking boss. I don't even give a shit. :obama:

[hinch]

nice little game I've just had wasn't too difficult tbh but i was quite happy with myself and timings also alot better at probe production seemed to keep it all up nicely etc. was about a 1 or 2 secs out starting warp gates after cyber so not too bad there got extended thermal lance pretty much immediately after robo finished so that was pretty good timing i think i made a mistake with early pressure attempting to contain him but just far too slow he'd already got marauders out and i lost a stalker

all in it was a nice enjoyable game for once I'm quite happy with it (yes i know my apm is still low quit moaning :) )

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1723 ... ga-caverns (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/172349-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns)

[Hehulk]

Ok, watching it now. I'll edit in an update

1:54-2:18, your not building probes
2:35-2:41, more missed probe time :(
2:58, you've just capped on chrono-energy, don't think I've seen you chrono a single probe. This makes me cry
3:25, aha, a chrono boost! Baby jesus approves
4:06-4:15, zee probes senior. I think I've probably made my point there so I'm not going to mention it again, but really :emo:


Actually, bored of exact times, but basically what I see in the first seven minutes is just...huh. Your just not using your chrono-energy at all. To this point, I think I've seen you chrono twice. Your gateways are sitting unused a lot of the time as well, and just throwing down an expansion blind with no real idea what your enemy is doing is something I yell at myself not to do. If he'd hit you with anything at all then, you'd be boned. Upside I like the forge, I just wish it was doing something other than sitting there looking pretty and good work with the xel'naga towers. That's an area I fall down on a lot in my own play.

Your push near the 8 minute mark. My gut says it could have been a hell of a lot stronger if only you were using the gateways and then warpgates constantly. He had basically nothing (2 marauders, 4 marines) in there. Constant production would have given you so many units that it wouldn't have mattered what you had, woulda rolled over him. Something else that occurs to me, why so many pylons? Not getting blocked is good, but 38/68? That's a fair few of zealots or stalkers you could have instead.

A wins a win, and well done, but that match was 14 minutes~ longer than it needed to be in my eyes. You almost accidentally won in the centre at the 20 minute mark. Wondering though, when you crushed his marine/marauder mix, why did you carefully go in with stalkers first on his natural instead of just steamrolling in? You had eyes with the observer ;)

[Lucifer Fellblade]

Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

He 6-pooled you, which means he has a lot less workers than you. His economy is in shambles.
Run around your probes, chrono out a zealot.
If he hits your pylon, attack the lings with your probes and run away soon as his lings attack your probes.
when the zealot pops out, attack lings with zealot + probes.

You will lose some probes, but will still be ahead in economy.


He will either kill the pylon, the zealot, or all your probes. Fighting probes to lings is a really quick way to lose, as while probes can be microed around to regenerate shields, even programers can't do so all that reliably. So unless you have whitera level micro, forget it, your going to lose all of them, or enough to be out of the running. Plus, all the time your probes are out at your front trying to stop pylon death is lost mining time, so the economic advantage is really not at all in your court either even if you brilliantly defend with probes and positioning.



This is why you join your zealot with your probes. I've done this before in diamond/platinum league. 6 lings are defeatable with just your probes, but to not lose too many you wait for that zealot to come out. Will be even easier with the new patch. Of course scouting it and walling is better, but not always an option. Also, 10-gating by default solves this and makes this into a BO-win. 10-gate is a bit worse on the eco though, of course.

:obama: Didn't we just have this discussion?

[Vortex]

[quote="Lexa Hellfury":2irim1a3]Again, 6-pooled just as my gateway finishes. How do you counter this shit?

He 6-pooled you, which means he has a lot less workers than you. His economy is in shambles.
Run around your probes, chrono out a zealot.
If he hits your pylon, attack the lings with your probes and run away soon as his lings attack your probes.
when the zealot pops out, attack lings with zealot + probes.

You will lose some probes, but will still be ahead in economy.


He will either kill the pylon, the zealot, or all your probes. Fighting probes to lings is a really quick way to lose, as while probes can be microed around to regenerate shields, even programers can't do so all that reliably. So unless you have whitera level micro, forget it, your going to lose all of them, or enough to be out of the running. Plus, all the time your probes are out at your front trying to stop pylon death is lost mining time, so the economic advantage is really not at all in your court either even if you brilliantly defend with probes and positioning.



This is why you join your zealot with your probes. I've done this before in diamond/platinum league. 6 lings are defeatable with just your probes, but to not lose too many you wait for that zealot to come out. Will be even easier with the new patch. Of course scouting it and walling is better, but not always an option. Also, 10-gating by default solves this and makes this into a BO-win. 10-gate is a bit worse on the eco though, of course.

:obama: Didn't we just have this discussion?[/quote:2irim1a3]

Yes :razor:

[Beardface]

8 matches win streak feels good man even though I am now afraid to play more since I might lose said win streak. Also what's the dealio with the PLAAGUUUU thing?

[Waagaa]

8 matches win streak feels good man even though I am now afraid to play more since I might lose said win streak. Also what's the dealio with the PLAAGUUUU thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpuv7VPb2rA

Starcraft 1 meme.. Zerg had a plague ability that defilers could cast (think Fungal Growth, but only getting things down to 1 hp)

[hinch]

Wondering though, when you crushed his marine/marauder mix, why did you carefully go in with stalkers first on his natural instead of just steamrolling in? You had eyes with the observer ;)

because i'm not brilliant at the "micro" side of things so i forget when i've split the army into 2 prongs like i did to bring the 2nd part in :) i'm working on it but i'm stuck playing against fairly shit people so the whole :effort: to develop my play to be better isn't there because you can pretty much steamroll everyone even while being bad yourself as long as your just a little bit better than your opponent.
I need to play against better people who will force me to focus on getting things better myself.

About the probes I ended on 60 which is perfect saturation for 2 bases iirc from a thread on TL

[Tyrehl]

Changes in the 1.3.3 Patch (compared to the "old" 1.3.3).

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=216605 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216605)

They include .. 160 seconds for the WG Research (instead of 180).
+1 range for Archons (nice!).
Slower infestors (thank god, its something at least :D burrowed infestors are fast as fuck).
And the 250mm Strike Cannon ability will now require energy (150). HELLO THAR, * ZOOOOP * THOR FEEDBACKed.

The feedback ability is just ridiculous. How come the Ghost got nerfed to drain only 100 energy and the feedback is still such a piece of shit ( from the point of view of the other races). While watching TSL i noticed how hard it is to actually pull out an emp on high templars (MC vs Thorzain on Taldarim Altar). Like 90% of the time when Thorzain tried to emp 1-2 high templars (scattered around) his ghosts got insta-feedbacked.
Really, blizzard .. terran late game currently sucks (against Z and Protoss), are they buffing the race with the strongest aoe even further or what :( it really isnt funny. I have yet to see a late game bio army crush a protoss deathball with high templars in it. And Mech is too slow / situational and cant move around fast enough. Ive seen games where people try mech, push against the toss base and lose their main / production buildings before they can even turn around.



Edit (fake lol): I had just stopped with my whiney-attitude but i dont like some things that blizzard does. Balance my ass, the mech build in TvP wasnt even really "researched" so to say and it already receives a nerf. I really hope that the new gas cost for the ghosts will stay, otherwise im just switching to another race (no thats not a "herp derp do it like i say or im leaving" comment, i was thinking about it for some time). I feel like the constant pressure / agression playstyle of the Terran isnt really for everyone ( and in particular, for me).

[hinch]

just had another really good game non cheesed by him again so it felt really good to get a straight up win.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/1727 ... as-plateau (http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/172709-1v1-terran-protoss-shakuras-plateau)

again vs terran I tried to focus probe production and warp ins as often as possible think i did a little better than the last game, also dealt with a couple of his drop attempts pretty well I think. I did a pretty good job of scouting too with observers and watch towers so it was safe to take what I class as a pretty early expand.

Running it through sc2replayed too showed me a rather interesting fact that my APM had jumped from 30-35 ish upto 45 so seemed to be a little better than previously probably as a result of me constantly trying to spam probes out and warp ins etc.

[Beardface]

8 matches win streak feels good man even though I am now afraid to play more since I might lose said win streak. Also what's the dealio with the PLAAGUUUU thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpuv7VPb2rA

Starcraft 1 meme.. Zerg had a plague ability that defilers could cast (think Fungal Growth, but only getting things down to 1 hp)


Haha, I heard stories about koroan starcraft casters so I had a feeling it was related to that :P

[Ort Lofthus]

Changes in the 1.3.3 Patch (compared to the "old" 1.3.3).

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=216605 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216605)

They include .. 160 seconds for the WG Research (instead of 180).
+1 range for Archons (nice!).
Slower infestors (thank god, its something at least :D burrowed infestors are fast as fuck).
And the 250mm Strike Cannon ability will now require energy (150). HELLO THAR, * ZOOOOP * THOR FEEDBACKed.

The feedback ability is just ridiculous. How come the Ghost got nerfed to drain only 100 energy and the feedback is still such a piece of shit ( from the point of view of the other races). While watching TSL i noticed how hard it is to actually pull out an emp on high templars (MC vs Thorzain on Taldarim Altar). Like 90% of the time when Thorzain tried to emp 1-2 high templars (scattered around) his ghosts got insta-feedbacked.
Really, blizzard .. terran late game currently sucks (against Z and Protoss), are they buffing the race with the strongest aoe even further or what :( it really isnt funny. I have yet to see a late game bio army crush a protoss deathball with high templars in it. And Mech is too slow / situational and cant move around fast enough. Ive seen games where people try mech, push against the toss base and lose their main / production buildings before they can even turn around.



Edit (fake lol): I had just stopped with my whiney-attitude but i dont like some things that blizzard does. Balance my ass, the mech build in TvP wasnt even really "researched" so to say and it already receives a nerf. I really hope that the new gas cost for the ghosts will stay, otherwise im just switching to another race (no thats not a "herp derp do it like i say or im leaving" comment, i was thinking about it for some time). I feel like the constant pressure / agression playstyle of the Terran isnt really for everyone ( and in particular, for me).

Feedback does seem a little powerful with no limit to energy drain at just 50 energy, but then again HTs are all about the spells.

The thor change seems a bit odd given that the metagame around it in PvT hasn't really had a change develop a counter to it. That said I could see it going back to an energy based ability provided it also got an increase in range. With an energy requirement of 150 and a single HT being able to reasonable short out 2-3 thors at 9 range, strike cannons are gonna be pretty hard to pull off otherwise.

[Derpy'eart]

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65228

cooler than Tasteless wearing a cowboy hat.

[Tai]

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65228

cooler than Tasteless wearing a cowboy hat.

Hahahah, oh wow. Amazing.

[hinch]

I've seen that spine crawler trick before along time before this think it was back around xmas i saw it in a replay on sc2casts.com can't for the life of me remember who it was though

[Lexa Hellfury]

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65228

cooler than Tasteless wearing a cowboy hat.

My god that commentating :facepalm:

[Gilligan]

I've seen that spine crawler trick before along time before this think it was back around xmas i saw it in a replay on sc2casts.com can't for the life of me remember who it was though

Some Silver leaguer did it on Day9's "no queen" funday monday. I think that might have been the very first funday monday too, so the general idea has been around for a while. Obviously the execution was pretty hilarious in Silver league, but damn clever of the guy who came up with it.

[sand]

Some crazy stuff lately...first that spine crawler bit, then the Slayers_Boxer marine drop on the "island" of Taldrim Altar - nuts.

And damn do I hate them bringing back Thor energy - completely fucks with my mech player for no damn reason.

[Tyrehl]

Some crazy stuff lately...first that spine crawler bit, then the Slayers_Boxer marine drop on the "island" of Taldrim Altar - nuts.

And damn do I hate them bringing back Thor energy - completely fucks with my mech player for no damn reason.
I dont even mech at all, but i hate it as well.

[mitthrawn]

[quote="Derpy'eart":2cd3m26i]http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65228

cooler than Tasteless wearing a cowboy hat.

My god that commentating :facepalm:[/quote:2cd3m26i]

What?



Some crazy stuff lately...first that spine crawler bit, then the Slayers_Boxer marine drop on the "island" of Taldrim Altar - nuts.

And damn do I hate them bringing back Thor energy - completely fucks with my mech player for no damn reason.

For no damn reason? You mean as Protoss you couldn't feedback Thors anymore while they raped the obvious counter (Immortals) with that Stun Cannon? :roll:

[Tyrehl]

[quote="Derpy'eart":3khcdfsz]http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65228

cooler than Tasteless wearing a cowboy hat.

My god that commentating :facepalm:

What?



Some crazy stuff lately...first that spine crawler bit, then the Slayers_Boxer marine drop on the "island" of Taldrim Altar - nuts.

And damn do I hate them bringing back Thor energy - completely fucks with my mech player for no damn reason.

For no damn reason? You mean as Protoss you couldn't feedback Thors anymore while they raped the obvious counter (Immortals) with that Stun Cannon? :roll:[/quote:3khcdfsz]

Because TvP must be bioball 100% of the time? :(
Like Colossus rapes bio. HT rapes it even more. Lets buff HT (not nerf colosis). Good logic :(

:obama:

[mitthrawn]

Every time a Terran whines about 'balance' a little pony dies in South Dakota. :psyduck:

[Kazang]

Thors with energy is fucking stupid. Strike cannon is situational, the animation is slow, range isn't great, shooting something with less than 200hp is actually worse than just firing normally.
So what if you can't or don't want to use/get strike cannon? Tough shit, you have to research it and shoot your own units or emp your own Thors so they don't instantly fucking die to HT.

That's nothing to do with balance that just retarded design. Removing strike cannon altogether would be better than having them with energy.

[mitthrawn]

Removing strike cannon altogether would be better than having them with energy.
I would agree.

But as they are right now it's either hardly balanced or bad game design. Pick one.

[Ort Lofthus]

See, I dunno if there is enough information out there to say that strike cannons are OP. As it stands, its only worthwhile getting vs immortals and stun vs big targets. Keep in mind that strike cannons are 50 DPS while a vanilla thor is ~47 with ~+5 dps/upgrade. Stun is nice, but what really makes people cry over strike cannons now is that it slaughters immortals.

So, the problem is the interaction between immortals vs strike cannons, specifically during the thorzain timing attack. Can protoss hold off the timing attack doing something else? Currently, the metagame hasn't developed enough to be certain. It is obvious that immortals are not the solution, but what about things like void rays or another strategy. The timing attack does not work in all situations. Therefore, there should be another solution.

Adding mana makes strike cannons total crap against protoss. 150 energy requirement, 7 range (the same as a thor's base attack), and the fact that HTs shut it down hard will make strike cannons utterly useless. It will only work opposing mass thor (lol) and mass queens (also lol).

There are other ways to adjust strike cannons so they would still be balanced. If it becomes an energy based ability, it need range and more utility (perhaps option for lower damage stunnless AoE?). Damage interaction with hardened shields can also be adjusted so that thors don't roflstomp immortals. That way the main issue is solved without making strike cannons crap or making HTs unnecessarily good vs thors.

[mitthrawn]

Guys, go watch Sc vs Nestea! So sick! :shock:

[spoiler:2nk6flgv]It literally came down to the last few units of both player in the last and deciding match. By far the closest series I&#39;ve every seen.[/spoiler:2nk6flgv]

[LoKiPP]

[spoiler:2rvtnbaq]I turned off tonights cast after inca&#39;s 3 all ins. Watching now.[/spoiler:2rvtnbaq]

[Lexa Hellfury]

http://i.imgur.com/xzu6R.jpg

[Hehulk]

Grats

[Jon.J]

[spoiler:1fo2151z]I have a nerd crush on ThorZaIN[/spoiler:1fo2151z]

Edit: Anyone got a decent site there go to for replays?

[Polysynchronicity]

[quote="Derpy'eart":6ygjtivr]http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65228

cooler than Tasteless wearing a cowboy hat.

My god that commentating :facepalm:[/quote:6ygjtivr]

No kidding

[hinch]

won a 2v2 with a friend against a couple of plat ranked team. proper steamrolled them.

+ 44 points jumped from 16th bronze to 12th silver :)

[Lexa Hellfury]

Wanting to learn Zerg. Is there a way to inject larvae without looking at your hatchery?

[Gilligan]

Wanting to learn Zerg. Is there a way to inject larvae without looking at your hatchery?


Yes, you can inject via the mini-map. As long as you hit the hatchery on the mini-map, you can cast spells just like you were actually looking at in with your screen. Also, you can have all queens on one hotkey if you do this, the closest one with energy will automatically go to the hatch you clicked on. However, if you fuck up and for some reason one of your queens doesn't have enough energy, then the closest queen with enough energy will wander over from the other side of the map to inject. So, don't fuck up.

[Lexa Hellfury]

Wanting to learn Zerg. Is there a way to inject larvae without looking at your hatchery?


Yes, you can inject via the mini-map. As long as you hit the hatchery on the mini-map, you can cast spells just like you were actually looking at in with your screen. Also, you can have all queens on one hotkey if you do this, the closest one with energy will automatically go to the hatch you clicked on. However, if you fuck up and for some reason one of your queens doesn't have enough energy, then the closest queen with enough energy will wander over from the other side of the map to inject. So, don't fuck up.

Awesome. Creep spread works the same way?

[Tai]

No, creep spread is manual and has to be done by each tumor. You can select more than one tumor at a time but you have to manually click where you want it to spread to.

Do something like, "cycle Queens and inject, spread creep, move units, make units, scout with 'ling, cycle Queens, check timing, inject, spread creep," etc.

If you find yourself mineral rich (likely depending on what style of Zerg you play), just make Overlords, send them all the fuck over and start shitting creep on the map, especially on expansions. Makes it take just a little bit longer for that Terran or Toss you're playing to be able to expo or set up a proxy whatever.

[mitthrawn]

ZERG UP! :obama:

[Davd]

I went on a loosing streak (10 - 12 games) and I'm pretty sure I was almost demoted. This is what happens after I take a break. I seriously considered switching from zerg to terran just to win.