Is there a place in Eve for either of these fits?

[Daneel Trevize]

So I'm probably doing it ass-backwards, but I want to have fun flying the following 2 ships (rather than having a role I need a fit to fill). I realise they're very different, not cheap and I won't be packing any fancy implants or ganglinks, just some dps implants, standard exile for the Hyp and probably a cov ops/rapier alt as a scout:

[Loki, Wants Snakes?]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization


Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Cap stable mwding 2km/s, or neuting just outside regular scram range. ~500dps, ~50k ehp. 35km webs, 30km point.
On paper nothing can keep up with this 1v1 if it's not scrambled/jammed, and I'm thinking the 2 long webs would help hugely when outnumbered and trying to kite/flee from frigates/vagas/cynabals, rather than 1km/s more base speed before heat or 1 web and ~15k more ehp. Also it should be able to choose to beat or flee any solo recon ('solo'->BlOps incoming for k-space, I know). T2 cruisers it should piss all over, BCs it can kill/flee solo too in theory. But I don't know where it'll actually shine.
Lowsec: not in FW means not likely to meet threatening frigates on a gate, right? So it's not getting the most of out itself. Take it to belts?
Nullsec: I fear just 1 instalocking alpha camp will kiss it goodbye (would more speed or EHP help get back to the gate or not? The other option is I guess the cov ops alt will die a lot).
Wormholes: it's the spawn range, I think it's too likely to get scrambled or even just rapiered before it's got any speed/range to then give it the beans and far enough to warp and then dictate range. If it's able to get into a system safely, it's fairly safe. If I'm able to see if people have bust out recons/T3s with tackle, I think just perma-mwding not aligned to stuff would make it safe unless they build & rig something to lock quick enough after a combat-scan-powered cloaked grid warp.
The other good thing is that this has great resists for being RRed, but I don't think putting the alt in a scimi is going to be best as the main threat seems to be jumping into too much tackle/alpha.
It could even be made cov ops cloaky but then it's nearer 275dps (not accounting for falloff, doesn't want to be in scram range, etc) and no drones. Probably fine for tackling in w-space but too slow to solo anything else or deal with frigs quick enough?


On the other end of the scale we have:

[Hyperion, Dual rep pimped tank 4 3]
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Reactive Membrane
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer

True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Core C-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800

Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Ion Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Ogre I x4

Or

[Hyperion, Triple rep pimped tank more]
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Core C-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 800

Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Shadow Serpentis Electron Blaster Cannon, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Ogre I x4

1500(better explosive resist) or 1700 tank cap stable with exile before heat. 700dps. 600-700mil isk.
These come from EFTing too many BS fits from vids and taking their tank as a benchmark. Tell me now, fucking stupid idea, needs more dps-tank? The drones would probably be better as 5xValks, 5xWarriors, 5x EC-300s, right? But then the dps is really really crap unless I want to deal explosive. And as said I don't plan to have gang links or transporters of 800s. Should I junk it or swap in some mag stabs?
I'm wondering if these wouldn't actually work better in lower class w-space than on gates/stations, because 4 mins polarity means you'd have far more time to chew something up and draw out a response than k-space aggression timers, if they sit around long enough to be locked. But then again it'd need backup to arrive if running the tank hard because it'll want more cap and maybe even empty the guns. The fact it initially looks like a pve probably-rails fit and can rep 30% in 8 seconds means I think I can bait someone to jump with it twice and get tackled, then begin repping and whittling.

[Tyrus Tenebros]

You might get better and more concise responses posting them in the respective threads in, you know, the PvP fittings forum? There is some discussion of flying each of the fits, and given the differences between all of them it's quite difficult to discuss them in any particularly quick and sane fashion.

Secondly, your hyperion fits aren't using T2 weapons, which implies that you can't use them. The hype needs every ounce of DPS it can get, I'd suggest waiting. I use a hyperion in lowsec with standard exile and have had some success with it.

[Daneel Trevize]

The Hyp's guns were for fitting, I'd seen a lot of people not using the T2 ammo and going all tank in the lows. Mind you they're almost always with a Mega hull's tracking bonus and/or 90% web. But the Hyps have been fit like this too. The other way is 7 guns and a smarty/(medium) neut, a tradeoff I'd like feedback on.

My reason for this forum is that people would have their assumptions about what the ships could do and/or have a different preference in flying style that would be mean they could have great intel for going up against said ships rather than caring about fitting them. I'm mostly thinking of if anyone expects the loki to pack 2 webs while being decently shield tanked and fast, but equally some other racial BS pilots might say they'd usually aggress a Hyp but not expect that tank, or always expect full tackle/sebo/ECCM/mixed drones/whatever.

[Dwergi]

That's not a decent shield tank. I wouldn't undock in that for fear of the instapop.

And I'm pretty sure everyone expects a Hype to active tank with a link Legion and improved Exile.

[Smuggo]

Yeah drop a web on the loki for an invuln so you can take advantage of its overheating bonuses.

I use similar but with two CDFE rigs and a T2 polycarb, 3x Gyro and 2x TE in the lows. With more damage and tracking you should be able to kill any frig that gets you scrammed before it becomes a major issue. You'll still be pretty agile. Also, can make that last gun a 220 as well by using a storyline medium neut (cost about 50m).

[Daneel Trevize]

There's no place for solo tanking BS without shield tankers packing crystals?

No offence, but the resists are already very high, another extender would give more EHP than an invuln, though it lacks the PG. You have the same EHP, but far less kinetic and explosive EHP. With the base speed I expect the only threat at range is HMs and ACs. Surely 2 webs helps against multiple people, I'd want a chance against 3 dramiels or 2 cynabals hounding me down. Or is this just not likely? I figured I want to web them beyond any unlinked point range to GTFO, and/or pin one almost as stationary as a scram while still letting them screw their sig and cap trying to move if going for the kill. Any HAC should be a cakewalk with 2 webs.

[Smuggo]

There's no place for solo tanking BS without shield tankers packing crystals?

No offence, but the resists are already very high, another extender would give more EHP than an invuln, though it lacks the PG. You have the same EHP, but far less kinetic and explosive EHP. With the base speed I expect the only threat at range is HMs and ACs. Surely 2 webs helps against multiple people, I'd want a chance against 3 dramiels or 2 cynabals hounding me down. Or is this just not likely? I figured I want to web them beyond any unlinked point range to GTFO, and/or pin one almost as stationary as a scram while still letting them screw their sig and cap trying to move if going for the kill. Any HAC should be a cakewalk with 2 webs.

You can't overheat an LSE.

It's your ship to lose so fit it how you want, but personally if there were two Cynabals I would be reluctant to engage anyway as they have massive falloff so webbing one out of range isn't going to help you significatly while combating the other. Same with frig blobs. If I suspect a gang has more than a couple of ships capable of catching me then I'll play it much more cautiously. Having a second web would not significantly change that IMO given you already have a neut to shake off a scramming frig.

[Daneel Trevize]

Your overheated invuln still has 20% less EHP against kinetic than a balanced resists fit (10% less vs explosive too). And less regen if we're get deep into it.

I'd not wanting to be fighting the cynas either, but how the fuck do you get away from 2 of them with 30km points and all that falloff? And if there's 1, I'd still want to be up in it's face asap to remove the falloff advantage and neut it to pieces while I'm cap stable.
Would a frig with a 30km point not still cause tracking issues if it's in an orbit and you have 1 web?

Or am I just a retard? I've not been flying shield stuff for any great length of time.

[Smuggo]

The idea is to kite a gang from distance. Stay out of range of Drakes (which are likely to be the mostly commonly encountered major kinetic damage dealers) kill the tackle and run away.

A frig pointed at range is not going to be a problem IMO, you just move around to fuck with its transversal and finish it off. Scramming frigs are more of an issue but the idea is you burn away overheated and web them to cut their speed as they approach to try and take them out before they get close enough to scram you.

[Dodgy Past]

Would a frig with a 30km point not still cause tracking issues if it's in an orbit and you have 1 web?

Or am I just a retard? I've not been flying shield stuff for any great length of time.
The web will double the DPS done by guns, plus allow drones to catch it. ( barrage is best )

[Daneel Trevize]

Ok so I think I had the right idea, it's just the initial getting on grid and not being in a hopeless situation. What would you say the chances are of a bad spawn around the average gate, or would you ensure it was scouted and not risk jumping if there was an Gal/Min recon or spread frigs with logi backup? Would something small like 3 or 4 instalocking arty canes stand a good chance of volleying such a ship, or only if you do/don't mwd trying to reapproach/warp or are they never a real threat? Should 2 arty BS make me pucker?
I guess this all relates to where would this fit best be flown? Lowsec with/without FW? Never without a scout/cheaper gangmate(vaga/SFI/cyna/drake/whatever) to decloak first? Or stick with a scimi in a small fleet?
I don't mind flying solo/dualboxing a weak scout, I just usually have the upper hand with a cloak in w-space and want to get in more stand-up fights and pull something unexpected out of the bag.

[Dwergi]

Just scout yourself in a covops. Don't jump into anything that's likely to have scrams, because you're very likely to get utterly fucked. Even 2 Vagas and 2 frigs are likely to give you a very, very bad day. Better off trying to land 50km off and letting them come to you (they probably will anyway).

If you're absolutely positive you can run a camp, burn in a direction and take out tackle before getting out. You really don't have a great tank on that, and it's half a bill down the drain if you screw up. Personally, I'd fly Cynabals and Vagas extensively before considering using a Loki for the same thing + web.

[Sparkus Volundar]

Personally, I'd fly Cynabals and Vagas extensively before considering using a Loki for the same thing + web.

I think this is solid advice, especially when a Cynabal doesn't really need a web to achieve kiting glory.

The armour-tanked webbing config for fleets with logi, the insta-locking ari config and the gang link config are where it shines IMO. In other senarios, it seems pretty expensive for the gains over T2/Faction hulls.

Sparks

[Podcat]

I think this is solid advice, especially when a Cynabal doesn't really need a web to achieve kiting glory.


that depends on how many frigates/scram cynabals and assorted stuff you are fighting