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Helen
June 1 2011, 11:40:35 AM
Swear to the gods there is a fucking text book with "How to failcascade your alliance in seven easy steps".

Every time these "builder" style alliances cascade its the same pattern with near enough the same speeches with some minor detail changes.

Stoffl
June 1 2011, 11:43:27 AM
All alliances that go to NPC space come back stronger. :derper:

Where did RZR go after the MC steamroll,can't remember.

Helen
June 1 2011, 11:46:00 AM
All alliances that go to NPC space come back stronger. :derper:

Where did RZR go after the MC steamroll,can't remember.

Tribute, MC never touched the place after torching the rest of it.
No one wants to make that mistake again.

Rexthor Hammerfists
June 1 2011, 11:50:24 AM
Well done to everyone involved, glad to see the NC finally go down. Tho imo no one deserves this more than evoke and Tri remnants, for theyve been nibbling at the nc far longer than anyone else.
Id like to see Goons getting kicked out of deklein and mittens showing us how easy it is to live in npcsec :obama:

Xarthaginian
June 1 2011, 11:56:15 AM
with over one-hundred Tengus fielded in a stunning display of backwards-flying grace.

Oh please tell me somebody frapsed that :popcorn:

Marlona Sky
June 1 2011, 12:04:56 PM
Another thing I find funny is how the average NC grunt finds their version of, "Stay out of my space so I can rat/plex my face off 23/7 in peace." more justified than the residents of the drone regions. The amount of racism, stereotypes and total ignorance of other cultures is so painful to witness. "They don't speak the same language as me and are from another country, therefore they are inherently evil!" :psyduck:

They need to ask where all that tech gold went. They obviously didn't use it to supply super caps to help defend their space. They truly think the only people to RMT has to be Russians. If they found out that it was happening in their own coalition the whole time and just as much, it would break their poor little hearts.

Smuggo
June 1 2011, 12:07:54 PM
Another thing I find funny is how the average NC grunt finds their version of, "Stay out of my space so I can rat/plex my face off 23/7 in peace." more justified than the residents of the drone regions. The amount of racism, stereotypes and total ignorance of other cultures is so painful to witness. "They don't speak the same language as me and are from another country, therefore they are inherently evil!" :psyduck:

They need to ask where all that tech gold went. They obviously didn't use it to supply super caps to help defend their space. They truly think the only people to RMT has to be Russians. If they found out that it was happening in their own coalition the whole time and just as much, it would break their poor little hearts.

One of the recordings, not sure which, within a matter of minutes they accuse the Russians of RMTing to make real life cash, and then suggest they are all billionaire oil oligarchs putting millions of real life money into the game to pay PL. :psyduck:

Forever Calzone
June 1 2011, 12:11:37 PM
Another thing I find funny is how the average NC grunt finds their version of, "Stay out of my space so I can rat/plex my face off 23/7 in peace." more justified than the residents of the drone regions. The amount of racism, stereotypes and total ignorance of other cultures is so painful to witness. "They don't speak the same language as me and are from another country, therefore they are inherently evil!" :psyduck:

They need to ask where all that tech gold went. They obviously didn't use it to supply super caps to help defend their space. They truly think the only people to RMT has to be Russians. If they found out that it was happening in their own coalition the whole time and just as much, it would break their poor little hearts.

One of the recordings, not sure which, within a matter of minutes they accuse the Russians of RMTing to make real life cash, and then suggest they are all billionaire oil oligarchs putting millions of real life money into the game to pay PL. :psyduck:

Yes apparently the guy who was talking believes that unlike Canadians and Americans, you know the normal people, the Russians don't need to spend their RL money to survive......

WHAT WHAT :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

Seleene
June 1 2011, 12:21:27 PM
This is Elise's AAR for last night:


While DRF Legion forces have been tending house in Vale, with the final station falling this week, the NC moved en masse to "fortress Tribute" in H-W. Sounding every alarm they could find, the NC stood their ground and piled together to save Tribute from the onslaught they assumed was coming. For two weeks there was no assault on Tribute, save for one system in 3G-L. To say things for the NC in general were getting better, however, would be a gross overstatement. In the two weeks since Vale fell, twenty-five Super Caps, over 70 Technetium moons, and nearly every NC fleet fielded across all timezones fell victim to the vicious DRF Legion assaults. Still, Fortress Tribute was safe. The respite was short-lived, though, as this week saw increased hostility in Tribute.

Throughout the lopsided defeats and the face-slapping resets, the NC member-base stood strong in their resolve; they continued to show up with more and more numbers to cash the checks their leadership was writing. Traditionally NC Leadership has kept them in a position of power, but now NC High Command had become engrossed with bickering and in-fighting. Constant losses and super-capital miscues did nothing to ease the tensions. The fighting reached such high levels that Goons stepped in and relieved the NC Sky Marshall from power, replacing him with a much more accomplished leader: Goons own Rydis. The NC member base were happy by this decision, finally organizational structure existed. Fleets would meet up and be flying in a unified doctrine instead of a hodgepodge whatever-yo composition. All seemed well on the surface, but the backlash by the NC command structure was fierce as FCs exchanged conciliatory remarks. Still, in spite of all this the NCs members kept them in the fight. Just when it seemed that the NC were destined to become caricatures of their former selves Vuk Lau returned and lit a fire under the NC leadership. For a moment it seemed like the NC War Machine was on its way back.

On Friday the NC announced that they would finally stand up and dust off their Supercapital fleet in a massive counter-offensive that would last the weekend. After standing idly by as two regions burned to the ground, NC High Command figured they could flip the switch and go immediately back to their winning ways. Friday came and passed with little more than a whimper. The platitudes echoed in the empty halls, “tomorrow is another day” they said. Saturday came and went with few small skirmishes over what remained of NC Technetium moons. As TEST Alliance shockingly announced an NC reset, DRF Legion forces paraded through Tribute reinforcing CSAAs in the heart of the once-mighty fortress. Cracks were beginning to show in the foundations of Fortress Tribute.

To be or not to be

“Anyway at this moment war is not lost Y?T. As I said Tuesday is ‘to be or not be’ for the NC in its current structure, in true meaning of that expression. It’s purely upon us to choose the fate of ourselves.” – Vuk Lau. The gauntlet was thrown. PL’s own Sky Marshall, Phreeze, accepted the challenge. Together with DRF allies NCdot, Merciless, Raiden, and the relentless warriors of IRC, he formulated a bold plan. As the server loaded, the rambunctious PL forces amassed with their trademark, fear inducing, Thundercat fleet. In just moments the largest Tengu fleet ever seen was formed, with over one-hundred Tengus fielded in a stunning display of backwards-flying grace. Inspired by their Sky Marshall, PL was the first to respond and was able to get into WH-J before the NC could even form. The impetuous Legion took the cyno-jammer down as a slack-jawed NC stood shell-shocked. Testing the resolve of DRF Legion forces, the NC cautiously left the safety of their perch in H-W, into D-7, and set up on the WH-J gate. The NC knew they needed to regain control of the system if they stood any hope of keeping the cyno-jammer up; four hundred NC, with an additional two-hundred Capitals formed, couldn’t muster the courage to take the last plunge.

“Fortune favors the bold” Sky Marshall Phreeze chimed in, and with that DRF Legion forces did the unthinkable and gave up their tactical advantage to get a fight. It was up to High Admiral Shadoo and Elendar to conduct the Thundercat fleet, and so they did. Firing on all cylinders, the astute commanders harnessed the majesty of the Legion and, fighting heavy fleet-lag, inflicted massive amounts of damage on the NC fleets taking next to no losses whatsoever. Calling five simultaneous targets, the PL commanders overwhelmed the NC fleets with an unprecedented amount of carnage. Filled with blood lust, Shadoo tenaciously followed the fleeing NC fleets into H-W, again inflicting his will upon the hostile fleet. By the end of the encounter, the battlefield was littered with just shy of 200 NC wrecks. The fleets were broken, noses were bloodied.

The NC were now grasping at straws, having leveraged everything on this night they hoped that time would be on their side. PL numbers did dwindle as time passed, but the core remained intact. Conversely, the NC was getting some fresh blood to bolster their numbers. PL Advanced Scouts were taken aback as they spotted the movement of NC lapdogs –A- moving a 130 man BS fleet from Feythabolis. The NC were truly desperate, but their desperation netted them a mighty 800 man sub-capital fleet with 200 Capitals in reserve. With less than half of the support numbers, Phreeze retained his composure and refused to back down from a fight. “The road to glory is paved with brave souls”, the Sky Marshall began, “and you have enough spirit to pave that road forty times over. We can stand down now and say we got to the brink of glory and nobody would question our fight. Hey, we just about got there – that’s something right? Wrong. Nothing succeeds like success. I say we fight our way into the light, make our dreams become their nightmares.” And with that the PL War Machine was ready to fight the NC hordes. Taking everything to the gate, PL and allies waited patiently for what would be one of the largest fights of the campaign.

Seeing this, the NC fleet once again left the safety of their POS and motioned toward WH-J. Now with a much larger gang, facing a slightly smaller opponent, the outcome would surely be different. The NC gang still had cold feet; mistaking bravery for foolishness they unsuccessfully tried to goad the PL forces into giving up the position in WH-. The NC were at the precipice of redemption, staring fortune squarely in the eyes, and yet they still were reluctant to take the final plunge. Riddled with self doubt, the NC began to convince themselves that they were going to lose everything; it was clear their hearts were not in the fight. Plagued by their indecisiveness and an unwillingness to fight for something, the NC disbanded all 900 members.

The loss of seven CSAAs with active supers in build will not be significant in the long run; in fact it’ll be nothing more than a mere blip on the radar. What will be revealed, though, is that the fortress is not impenetrable. It begs to question how much longer will the NC leadership issue ultimatums to their member base while feeding them nothing but empty rhetoric, and for how much longer will allies prop MM up before they eventually get enveloped in their own decrepitude.

Traxio Nacho
June 1 2011, 12:24:39 PM
Sel would that be the same BR that is posted by Elise in the thread below? :D

Seleene
June 1 2011, 12:30:02 PM
CRIPES, a new thread?? Bah

Spacebat
June 1 2011, 12:38:49 PM
The life of a Russian EVE player, according to the NC:

1) Open oil tap
2) Sell oil to Americans for $$$
3) Open EVE account
4) Buy isk with $$$
5) Buy botting character
6) RMT isk
7) Send PL, spies, and lame NC betraying duders some cars or laptops with RMT'd $$$
8) Get more territory for more bots
9) Repeat from step 3.
10) Optional: buy a private jet and fly to America.

But seriously, I just wish I had a spy on their TS at the time they said that. I would have totally burned a spy just to tell them how retarded they are.

Redclaws
June 1 2011, 12:46:38 PM
"Relentless warriors of IRC"?

Seleene
June 1 2011, 12:53:50 PM
Some of the shots I got last night.

Form up while waiting on jammer to go down. (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/pre_jump.jpg)

Main form up at the station in WH-JCA. (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/WH-JCA_01.jpg)

With 30 mins left on the first CSAA, we all moved to the tower (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/CSAA_formup.jpg).

With about 12 mins left, PL warped about 200k or so away from the tower and aligned parallel to the tower to better respond to incoming caps. Myself and Palli are in the Rags out front and Shadoo's giant Drake is chugging along in the back.

PL Supercap Parade (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/PL_parade.jpg).

Despite all the bitching about super blobs, this was the largest concentration of PL supers (and others) I've ever seen and it took an event like this to muster such a fleet. Typically it's... much less.

I didn't get any Tengu shots last night as I was more focused on my titan. Mittens told me "they were going to do a 100-dread suicide charge against Thulsa Doom" which would have been pretty fucking awesome tbh and was half what we expected.

Lowa [NSN]
June 1 2011, 01:09:27 PM
Even though its completely ridiculous, the amount of caps fielded most certainly holds a majestic projection of power in that last shot. Nyxeeeees!

And booh for not doing 100 dread mass suicide! ;)

indeterminacy
June 1 2011, 01:14:50 PM
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=557 (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=557)

Traxio Nacho
June 1 2011, 01:15:28 PM
]Even though its completely ridiculous, the amount of caps fielded most certainly holds a majestic projection of power in that last shot. Nyxeeeees!

And booh for not doing 100 dread mass suicide! ;)

I have a feeling the 100 dreads would cyno in and before the lag cleared to activate siege half the dreads would be wrecks with that amount of titans on the field :P

Surveyor
June 1 2011, 01:19:03 PM
They are much more skilled and fun to fight because they often engage with equal numbers and fight again if they lose (which makes them experienced). Also, I've heard that Sniggwaffe will be given M-O (can anyone confirm/deny?). You have no idea how happy that makes me. These guys are great to fight and they actually LOOK FOR pvp, unlike most corps/alliances in eve, even the so-called pvp alliances.

A bit over dramatic but you hit it. Russians DO bring fights and they are not worse than NC ... but they're not better either so :obama:.

It will be intersting to see how the napfest around PL (NC./404/Ev0ke/BL/et al) will evolve after the NC is gone.

indeterminacy
June 1 2011, 01:19:08 PM
got into the capital fleet last night. i'm guessing you guys (who rage about NAPs and Blobs) brought 50 titans for goodfights right? From what I heard, sub-cap fleet was 350-400, no 800...but then I haven't bothered to check any killboards.

After the capital fleet fucked off we refilled our drinks and ran a blops fleet out of pb into trib. killed some of those relentless warriors of IRC :p

whatever, didn't really expect blue balls - expected a welp. wanted to be there no matter the outcome so that i could be bitter, have cool stories to tell, and become elite.

killfalcon
June 1 2011, 01:23:47 PM
They need to ask where all that tech gold went.

They're saving up to hire PL to take out PL. :ohnoes:

Phatstabley
June 1 2011, 02:20:11 PM
That recording. :facepalm:


600 billion is probably what one group of Chinese people make in a day.

:psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

Seleene
June 1 2011, 03:09:48 PM
[quote="Lowa [NSN]":1a4rxrls]Even though its completely ridiculous, the amount of caps fielded most certainly holds a majestic projection of power in that last shot. Nyxeeeees!

And booh for not doing 100 dread mass suicide! ;)

I have a feeling the 100 dreads would cyno in and before the lag cleared to activate siege half the dreads would be wrecks with that amount of titans on the field :P[/quote:1a4rxrls]

Really hard to tell. My Rag is fit about as well as you can get one, plus the Levi bonus, etc... I think my chances woulda been 50 / 50 depending on lag and other potential space burps. Successful or not, it would have at least been a nice middle finger for the NC to go out on.

I was more ambivalent a couple nights ago in 3G when we were trying to bait 400 angry NC / Goons in a fuckton of Maelstroms to jump into us. It was just Shadoo's Levi off the gate and then I warped into the gate at zero because, like, EMP XL in ACs has a shitty optimal, ya know? We had a decent number of other supers on standby but we weren't 100% on what might happen. Woulda been pretty awesome in either case. 8-)

Evil Synns
June 1 2011, 03:38:31 PM
They need to ask where all that tech gold went.

They're saving up to hire PL to take out PL. :ohnoes:

QFT

Each tech moon is 1B per week... come on NC grunts.. Ask where the ISK has gone?

Helen
June 1 2011, 03:59:50 PM
Think this thread relating to conflicts in Gem/Vale is over unless someone wants to hear a BR on shooting tcu's in Vale still (about all thats left).

Use the unironically named thread Fortress Tribute guys.

Helen
June 1 2011, 04:01:58 PM
and then I warped into the gate at zero because, like, EMP XL in ACs has a shitty optimal, ya know?

Use that falloff. :obama:

To describe whats happening in Tribute at the moment is best visualized as a rotting whale carcass getting absolutely fucking hammered by a load of frenetic white sharks.

Grarr Dexx
June 1 2011, 04:10:49 PM
Yeah I'm locking this shit cause the posting has kinda... degraded :monocledowns:

If anything 'new' happens (ea. new conflict) you can start a new thread, if it's just small fights use the Tribute thread.

Deja Thoris
June 1 2011, 04:53:46 PM
"Tommorow is another day"
"we deal with a real evil"
"supers are broken" (they weren't when we blobbed the shit out of everybody!)
"We spend our money to survive, they don't have too!" (staple foods are free in Russia?)

Good old comms porn always delivers.

I love the way they complain that the Russians are paying for mercs with RMT money. Doesn't that cut their profit? Why can't the NC field as many supers as the enemy? They had all the best space and moons for countless months.

Anyway, fuck the NC. Blobby cunts. I'm glad they got a taste of their own medicine.

indeterminacy
June 1 2011, 05:25:46 PM
To describe whats happening in Tribute at the moment is best visualized as a rotting whale carcass getting absolutely fucking hammered by a load of frenetic white sharks.

when we did this to the old kitchen sink coalition last year what did you call it then? ITT:blobbing.
And LXQ2?

at least we got to fight in those cases. y'all brought some many scaps this time that you blue balled yourselves.

Traxio Nacho
June 1 2011, 05:37:46 PM
This probably isn't the place to discuss this but I would guess the NC has/had far more SCs than PL/DRF, the difference is either the NC won't use them or the pilots that own them no longer play due to never getting a fight being sat in the north.

depili
June 1 2011, 05:48:30 PM
Yeah, NC at least had the supercapital muscle with 10+ titans being quite common sight back in the previous pure blind invasion with tri and co. Dunno where they all went but good riddance.

Nice to see the anti-nc block finally got a coherent and big enough force together.

Armyofme
June 1 2011, 06:24:47 PM
This probably isn't the place to discuss this but I would guess the NC has/had far more SCs than PL/DRF, the difference is either the NC won't use them or the pilots that own them no longer play due to never getting a fight being sat in the north.
thats pretty much correct.
It seems most NC supercap pilots have gone inactive.

Marlona Sky
June 1 2011, 06:42:48 PM
18:40:40 Notify D00M. has claimed sovereignty in Q-CAB2 on behalf of Northern Coalition.

8-)

Vlasic
June 1 2011, 06:43:10 PM
"Tommorow is another day"
"we deal with a real evil"
"supers are broken" (they weren't when we blobbed the shit out of everybody!)
"We spend our money to survive, they don't have too!" (staple foods are free in Russia?)

Good old comms porn always delivers.

I love the way they complain that the Russians are paying for mercs with RMT money. Doesn't that cut their profit? Why can't the NC field as many supers as the enemy? They had all the best space and moons for countless months.

Anyway, fuck the NC. Blobby cunts. I'm glad they got a taste of their own medicine.

That's the most hilarious part of it.

Unless the Russians are RMTing off all kinds of ISK and then buying supers and mercs with real cash, that is.

I swear these clowns have no idea what RMT actually is.

Does it happen? Yes.

Is it why they're getting their shit pushed in? Absolutly not.

Seleene
June 1 2011, 07:01:40 PM
This probably isn't the place to discuss this but I would guess the NC has/had far more SCs than PL/DRF, the difference is either the NC won't use them or the pilots that own them no longer play due to never getting a fight being sat in the north.
thats pretty much correct.
It seems most NC supercap pilots have gone inactive.

I was asked last night, "Sel, any of this seem familiar?" and... it kinda does. Back when MC did this in 2007, it was similar in that the old NC bloc had more caps and more supers. Hell, MC didn't even HAVE a titan and the NC had three or four that we knew of. The difference was, MC and our allies used what we had over and over again. Had NC managed to trap and kill a big chunk of our cap fleet or a mothership or two back then, it would have been devastating to the advance. It just never happened.

While there might seem to be this aura of inevitability with what has / is happening now, at several points in the past few weeks, I've heard Shadoo and Phreeze (among others) being more cautious that the rhetoric might have you believe. Much as in the old days, folks have been wondering if there is some diabolical trap being laid that's going to whack the hell out of the attackers. One can't help but look at the NC's position geographically and financially and wonder how they could not afford to field an equal or superior force. Yeah, there's all the discussion about FC's leaving for more PVP centric groups and how NC has always been a 'non aggressive' force, but 'on paper' this should have been more of a slog than it has been.

Lilalaunebör
June 1 2011, 07:25:46 PM
Back then, Digi had microsmartbombed WOTANKN, and ET had whelped a coalition capfleet into the F-T mom fighterswarm. The pvpers in the north didnt consider that kind of game worth playing, but tried to defend fade anyways. When only 50 people showed up the higher ups decided to plaster the way to branch with D2 specials and just let the dying alliance dissolve.

There may be some similarities in that NC lost a bunch of stuff to boring gampeplay mechanics in Uemon, but the rethoric and the fleetfight mechanics are radically different now imo.

Anyways good riddance NC and i hope Ev0ke returns to EC- one day.

Hey You
June 1 2011, 08:11:54 PM
How is it possible that out of 900 ppl on that ts channel not a single guy reacted to all this crazy ass shit stuff that was said in that recording?

Starting from whining about how DRF have more supers (they don't), how supers are broken (they maybe are but that didn't bothered NC 2 months back in Geminite), How Americans and Canadians have to eat you know while russians i suppose live out of air...

I just cant get it how not a single guy responded and told those retarded idiots talking there that they are retarded?

Someone please enlighten me...

Smuggo
June 1 2011, 08:14:46 PM
I just cant get it how not a single guy responded and told those retarded idiots talking there that they are retarded?


Madness of crowds?

Either that or those people were too busy perusing the recruitment forums to get the fuck out of there.

Jester
June 1 2011, 08:15:11 PM
I stand by my working theory that most NC pilots concluded internally that NC space was no longer worth fighting for, and simply -- quietly -- decided not to log into EVE for defense fleets, and not to comment too much on how the defense was going.

People might say (correctly) that the NC existed before hugely profitable sanctums/havens, but:
a) not everyone in the NC was in the NC before Dominion; and,
b) even if they were, humans have short memories.

NC pilots aren't vanishing into the ether. They're moving en masse to "better space", whatever that means to them: other 0.0 alliances with lower truesec, better Empire missions, wormholes, other MMOs, etc.

Rans
June 1 2011, 08:39:15 PM
Congratulations DRF Legi0n.[see what I did? Included almost all the alliances!] I really didn't think it would be possible to root out the NC due to their huge numbers and immense wealth. I'm glad to see I was very, very wrong :3.

Also Elise is the best poster ever/

Krugerrand
June 1 2011, 08:48:42 PM
Some of the shots I got last night.

Form up while waiting on jammer to go down. (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/pre_jump.jpg)

Main form up at the station in WH-JCA. (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/WH-JCA_01.jpg)

With 30 mins left on the first CSAA, we all moved to the tower (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/CSAA_formup.jpg).

PL Supercap Parade (http://img.bdci-eve.net/img/PL_parade.jpg).



Reminds me of all those screenshots/vids back when you got normal cap fleets like that....

Liptonez
June 1 2011, 08:58:38 PM
Updated and more detailed crosspost from other thread. Think it fits to discussion.

I spent the last 3 days making a database that keeps track of all the supers that are in game. It's a website, but since I'm an idiot when it comes to programming and the host is some free shithost, I won't post the site here.

So I basically feeded it with all supers that appeared on "Big Kills" on eve-kill.net. I'm sure I got 99% of supers that were engaged in PVP during the last 5 months. Since I didn't spend any time making the DB "smart", pilots who changed corp/alliance, but didn't appear on any KM afterwards, remain members of their old alliance. So take what I post with a grain of salt (anyway, it doesn't negate the fact that NC had tons of supers).


There are currently 1280 supercapital pilots in the database. These are:

198 Titans:
83 Erebus,
69 Avatar,
33 Leviathan,
13 Ragnarok.

1081 Supercarriers:
644 Nyx,
305 Aeon,
87 Wyvern,
45 Hel,
0 Revenant.

This list includes supers from ALL corps/alliances in EVE. Now, the interesting part. Keep in mind that R.A.G.E and Majesta Empire have failcascaded and their supers haven't had any action since then, so their numbers are largely dated.


DRF + friends supers, sorted by numbers:
209 Pandemic Legion
84 Raiden.
66 Northern Coalition.
65 White Noise.
55 Red Alliance
32 Legion of xXDEATHXx
32 SOLAR FLEET
6 Merciless.

Makes 549 supercaps for DRF + friends.


Northern Coalition + Goons (status quo):
66 Morsus Mihi
58 Goonswarm Federation
34 RAZOR Alliance
31 Majesta Empire
26 Gypsy Band
24 -Mostly Harmless-
24 Wildly Inappropriate.
19 R.A.G.E
10 Test Alliance Please Ignore
6 Brick Squad.
3 Stella Polaris.
3 Controlled Chaos
1 Fidelas Constans
1 Fatal Ascension
0 Tactical Narcotics Team
0 Get Off My Lawn

Makes 306 supercaps for NC + goons.


I'm actually quite surprised at the NC numbers, thought it was a lot more, personally. Looking at the giant clashes they had with White Noise at least. Funny how PL and Raiden alone could match the NC.

Anyway. I hope this is information interesting to some people.

Rans
June 1 2011, 09:09:35 PM
Last night PL dudes said they have over 350 supers in the alliance, they might've been trolling but seeing how you've got 200 on your list, it's not too far off...


Also to count NC supers they would have needed to be on a killmail.

Bluemajere
June 1 2011, 09:16:27 PM
y'all brought some many scaps this time that you blue balled yourselves.

The NC had access to 300 or more tech moons for the better part of a year.

do not shit up FHC complaining about how your idiotic coalition did not take advantage of this to match our supercap numbers, or exceed them. You could have so easily, but you didn't. Hindsight is 20/20.

Stop crying.

makenshi
June 1 2011, 09:23:50 PM
Sent By: rawr-hirr-imperian@jabber.razor-eve.org/34531552431306860797310279
To: blue
** Content *********************************
I hope you got your stuff out of H-W, I will offline TCU now. So long o/
** End *************************************

The end?

forteh
June 1 2011, 09:30:38 PM
[21:22:05] Imperian > just kidding :)

Ralara
June 1 2011, 09:33:01 PM
18:40:40 Notify D00M. has claimed sovereignty in Q-CAB2 on behalf of Northern Coalition.

8-)

It's not fair, after 7 years, 4-5 of which fighting the NC, I quit the game and then a few months later the NC is dead :(

Wish I'd been there.

Bluemajere
June 1 2011, 09:44:14 PM
18:40:40 Notify D00M. has claimed sovereignty in Q-CAB2 on behalf of Northern Coalition.

8-)

It's not fair, after 7 years, 4-5 of which fighting the NC, I quit the game and then a few months later the NC is dead :(

Wish I'd been there.


you are :)

Jester
June 1 2011, 09:47:42 PM
Anyway. I hope this is information interesting to some people.
It's a rather heroic troll. ;) It'll be interesting to see how many people jump in and "correct" your numbers.

That said, those numbers are definitely inaccurate. I'm aware of supers that are definitely on KMs on eve-kill.net this year, and yet aren't recorded in your numbers. So something's being missed in your programming. A guess: it's not recording supers involved in POS module kills, perhaps?

Lowa [NSN]
June 1 2011, 09:57:36 PM
The number crunching, it should stop (or be taken to eve general). :)
Bottom line is that given the circumstances NC should be able to match the numbers on DRF side.
So far they havent and either that is actually true for various reasons or its like Sel speculated; Admiral Ackbar is hiding down the road.
I hope its the latter and we will get at least one sick capital slaughter out of all this.

Btw, with all these Titans/SC's currently in EVE I'm surprised there hasnt been a proper 1vs1 yet. Sort it out, you got the Isk and you know it!

Ralara
June 1 2011, 10:00:57 PM
18:40:40 Notify D00M. has claimed sovereignty in Q-CAB2 on behalf of Northern Coalition.

8-)

It's not fair, after 7 years, 4-5 of which fighting the NC, I quit the game and then a few months later the NC is dead :(

Wish I'd been there.


you are :)

><

nice, titan kill! :D

Liptonez
June 1 2011, 10:02:01 PM
Anyway. I hope this is information interesting to some people.
It's a rather heroic troll. ;) It'll be interesting to see how many people jump in and "correct" your numbers.

That said, those numbers are definitely inaccurate. I'm aware of supers that are definitely on KMs on eve-kill.net this year, and yet aren't recorded in your numbers. So something's being missed in your programming. A guess: it's not recording supers involved in POS module kills, perhaps?
As I said, PVP kills. So no POS mods.

Not my fault people don't kill spaceships with them. Why would you even count supers that don't ever get used anyway.

forteh
June 1 2011, 10:03:46 PM
2 more nc titans down, they had logged in 3g- after yaays ops a few days ago, we waited patiently

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9830219

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9830189

zergl
June 1 2011, 10:14:39 PM
I'm a bit :sadface: about Sala's Rag dieing to (ultimately, since he wouldn't have been in this position if it wasn't for that fail op) Yaay's bloody incompetence. Dunno who(se alt) the other guy is.

Oh, also, can someone loot one of Sala's gun and give me it for a souvenir? It was probably one of the first Titans to be outfitted with meta guns which he sourced from me. :3

Traxio Nacho
June 1 2011, 10:23:56 PM
Was he the titan pilot that almost died in the 3G fight when Yaay got everyone to log off?

I wonder what the MM/Razor forums are like right now :)

Bluemajere
June 1 2011, 10:29:54 PM
A guess: it's not recording supers involved in POS module kills, perhaps?


This is probably true, half the supercaps in the NC are only on POS mod killmails :obama:

Ralara
June 1 2011, 10:32:04 PM
Was he the titan pilot that almost died in the 3G fight when Yaay got everyone to log off?

I wonder what the MM/Razor forums are like right now :)


oh please, PL, post some delicious porn

Don Pellegrino
June 1 2011, 10:46:11 PM
Honest question:

How is Plague Black reacting?

A- "We will strike them back, they're terrible, we will win"
B- Something similar to "It's not our fault, they are exploiting RMT'ers"
C- Both?

As I said, no smack intended, I genuinely would love to know the answer to that question. That guy is a propaganda master and a hero.

Bluemajere
June 1 2011, 10:47:41 PM
Honest question:

How is Plague Black reacting?

A- "We will strike them back, they're terrible, we will win"
B- Something similar to "It's not our fault, they are exploiting RMT'ers"
C- Both?

As I said, no smack intended, I genuinely would love to know the answer to that question. That guy is a propaganda master and a hero.


herpa derp RMT derp japan chinese isk farmers allahu ackbar

basically sums it up

Dodgy Past
June 1 2011, 11:29:03 PM
herpa derp RMT derp japan chinese isk farmers allahu ackbar

basically sums it up
This and he's on a bit of a mission to brand anyone that posts or says anything negative as a psyops spy.

Dwergi
June 2 2011, 12:54:39 AM
Merciless has a few more, but they've only been fielded in the past couple of weeks and never got on any kills (apart from the Q-CAB IHUB).

Additionally, Gypsy Band hasn't fielded anything in any NC ops since they moved to Venal. I was rather surprised that they had that many, frankly. And I know LAWN has supers - heck, they lost a titan (dwarfish) last week.

But PL's numbers still constantly shock me. On Kugu some PL dude had done an API check and come up with 270 - which, if correct, is around a fifth of the supercap pilots in the game. You have to give them credit for seeing where the winds were blowing and adapting faster than anyone else. That Morsus Mihi and Razor can't match PL's numbers is pretty damning of the incompetence of their leadership.

stormyfs-shitpoastin
June 2 2011, 01:40:20 AM
I know a lot of the isk from moongoo in razor is held in empire alt corps.
Razor also built SCs for other alliances, rather than their own, specifically through one ex-razor char who now runs along in PL and still has alts in the razor corp.
Razor/MM might have the pilots, but they don't have the ships.

Plus, they continually welp fleets into a more adaptable enemy, without analysing their previous performance.
The ECM thing they tried a while ago was after about a month of bitching from the grunts upwards about trying the tactic, FCs were reluctant and continued with the distributed ewar midslots with little to no success instead, effectively burning themselves and their own fleets out way before it came to the actual crunch time (now).

Fara
June 2 2011, 08:37:00 AM
But PL's numbers still constantly shock me. On Kugu some PL dude had done an API check and come up with 270 - which, if correct, is around a fifth of the supercap pilots in the game. You have to give them credit for seeing where the winds were blowing and adapting faster than anyone else. That Morsus Mihi and Razor can't match PL's numbers is pretty damning of the incompetence of their leadership.

Well a lot of people that have supers want to use them, PL does, so supercap pilots join PL.

Wensley
June 2 2011, 09:07:56 AM
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1106/MH_disbanding.mp3

No idea on authenticity.

Jack bubu
June 2 2011, 10:46:36 AM
Is a troll

Surveyor
June 2 2011, 02:46:05 PM
You are missing Ev0ke in your list. They hardly use them (compared to PL (and even NC.)) but they still got some.

Garst Tyrell
June 2 2011, 03:09:55 PM
Last night one of my corp mate was watching razor move dreads/caps all night to 6nj8 in venal and log them in system :tinfoil:

I havent been following cause but how effective exactly has irc/rdn been in tenal so far? 8-)

Also ofc supercap numbers are a bit under exaggerated, for some more than others. PL has consistant numbers and fcs in all timezones and so gets their entire active playerbase a chance to use them, while other alliances who might not have senior level fcs in every tz will reduce the chances that their members can use them.

Not to mention alliances without cap replacement programs, corps/pilots in the nc who see the writing on the wall, and inactives all contribute to people not bringing the supers they DO have to fights and being counted. Therefore its probably fair to say that after pl, the fewer the supers an alliance has, the farther those numbers are from the 'true count'. And of course people who use ratting/carebear supers and would never consider pvping in them in a meaningful way.

In any case im very impressed by PL's strong hel showing. How many of those 2 in your screenshot earlier seleene were from the 6 hels made last year?

Traxio Nacho
June 2 2011, 03:20:22 PM
Last night one of my corp mate was watching razor move dreads/caps all night to 6nj8 in venal and log them in system :tinfoil:

I havent been following cause but how effective exactly has irc/rdn been in tenal so far? 8-)

Also ofc supercap numbers are a bit under exaggerated, for some more than others. PL has consistant numbers and fcs in all timezones and so gets their entire active playerbase a chance to use them, while other alliances who might not have senior level fcs in every tz will reduce the chances that their members can use them.

Not to mention alliances without cap replacement programs, corps/pilots in the nc who see the writing on the wall, and inactives all contribute to people not bringing the supers they DO have to fights and being counted. Therefore its probably fair to say that after pl, the fewer the supers an alliance has, the farther those numbers are from the 'true count'. And of course people who use ratting/carebear supers and would never consider pvping in them in a meaningful way.

In any case im very impressed by PL's strong hel showing. How many of those 2 in your screenshot earlier seleene were from the 6 hels made last year?

When you say Hel I'm guessing you mean Rag?

Raivi
June 2 2011, 03:21:26 PM
Was he the titan pilot that almost died in the 3G fight when Yaay got everyone to log off?

I wonder what the MM/Razor forums are like right now :)


oh please, PL, post some delicious porn

Little taste:


Wherever we are after this is all done I will make it my personal crusade to burn PL Space when they can not hide behind blobs of russians whoring killmails. With this attack PL sided with a block in the game and can not play the "merc" card any more. They are merc as much as we are ccp management.

Ralara
June 2 2011, 03:25:29 PM
[quote=Traxio Nacho]Was he the titan pilot that almost died in the 3G fight when Yaay got everyone to log off?

I wonder what the MM/Razor forums are like right now :)


oh please, PL, post some delicious porn

Little taste:


Wherever we are after this is all done I will make it my personal crusade to burn PL Space when they can not hide behind blobs of russians whoring killmails. With this attack PL sided with a block in the game and can not play the "merc" card any more. They are merc as much as we are ccp management.[/quote:fg5w2ni0]

:facepalm:

Traxio Nacho
June 2 2011, 03:30:30 PM
[quote=Traxio Nacho]Was he the titan pilot that almost died in the 3G fight when Yaay got everyone to log off?

I wonder what the MM/Razor forums are like right now :)


oh please, PL, post some delicious porn

Little taste:


Wherever we are after this is all done I will make it my personal crusade to burn PL Space when they can not hide behind blobs of russians whoring killmails. With this attack PL sided with a block in the game and can not play the "merc" card any more. They are merc as much as we are ccp management.[/quote:2f5o3ixv]

I've seen a lot of retarded people in Eve in my time but PB most be ranked number 1 for most dribbling retard.

So PL sided themselves with the people whom are paying them to kill stuff? Well I never!!

Helen
June 2 2011, 03:56:17 PM
Haha yeah Plague Black is probably the most special person I can think of in EvE.

Although I think the NC as a whole attracts some very special herp a derps.

cheeba
June 2 2011, 04:00:35 PM
As this thread is entirely from the prospective of one side, I will do the foolhardy thing and toss in my 2 cents from the perspective of one corp in MM.

There is an incredible amount of raging in this thread about the fact the NC didn’t field more supers. Supers win the game now, no longer subcaps (in any number). I don’t know exactly when, but there has been a tipping point in the last 6months when the regular appearance of 50-100 plus super fleets simply rendered any other fleet out there obsolete.

There are indeed more supers in the NC than those listed on killmails but there has also been a slower proliferation in the NC than in other alliances (read PL). The reasons for both of these is multiple:
- MM has been in place forever. Many supcap pilots are also unsurprisingly older players. Many of the MM supcap population are actual bittervets who log on once a week to have a spin and a chit chat. (I wonder how many remain in tribute after MM are gone, unaware of whats happened)
- Complacency. Having a super is a pain for a mostly defensive alliance and carebears. It requires a high sp toon to be locked in a ship + cyno alts. The concept of “There must be plenty of supers already in the NC, do I need to have one too?” is a tempting thought to players who would rather mine. Hence the silly amount of ratting supers that were (rightfully) dropped on.
- Tech Investment – Most MM corps expected tech to be nerfed sooner rather than later and so to safeguard against a future shift by CCP, much ISK was invested heavily into high end t2 bpos in order to guarentee future income.
- Slow Replacement – as pointed out before, MM produce their own supers. Replacements for active pilots were slow in coming and reserves of spare supers was minimal. Given that alliance heads didn’t push hard for their own members to fly them (till it was too late), too many were sold to future enemies as there was no takers at home.
- A settled playerbase – as the homeland of stability and easy living, MM and the NC in general attracted a more casual player who was uncommitted to using jabber to be on standby. When supers are needed, they are need NOW. I have no data to support this, but if you were to compare MM with NCdot or PL, I would imagine MM has a larger % of older players, with wives/kids/jobs and only an hour or two playtime an average per evening. (we have a lot of weekend-only players too).

So you can guys can feel free to rip into these comments as you see fit. Of course there are even more factors, but like with any eve story, the actuality is a shade or grey, never black or white, and people will argue over the reasons ad infinitum.

At the end of the day the tldr is:

The NC regular number's advantage was negated by the DRF/PL/Raiden supers numbers advantage.

Helen
June 2 2011, 04:07:52 PM
Don't play the "they are kids we are the older generation crap" unless you got actual facts to hand to support this.
End of the day NC promoted itself as a defensive force previously capable of blobbing out any hostile force while slowly expanding its borders, it just basically bred complacency and this is the end result.

It's really just down to playstyles PL/WN etc play to destroy and the general NC membership just wanted to build SimCity in space.
Without server breaking lag and hundreds of grunts the NC was exposed for what it is.

Be interesting to see what you guys have been paying for T2 bpos as the ones I've seen go for sale and decent ones at that are taking years just to repay the initial capital investment.

Raivi
June 2 2011, 04:21:58 PM
I think your reasons for lack of effective supercap numbers are mostly spot on, if missing a few factors (poor FCs not inspiring confidence from potential supercap pilots).

However I need to address:

Supers win the game now, no longer subcaps (in any number). I don’t know exactly when, but there has been a tipping point in the last 6months when the regular appearance of 50-100 plus super fleets simply rendered any other fleet out there obsolete.

This is incorrect, although I can see how it would be an easy mistake for the NC to make considering how the war is going.
You're not losing because we have more supercaps, you're losing and we also have more supercaps.

You can kill supercaps with subcaps quite quickly and easily if you are smart about it (hint: alpha fleet will not do it) and supercarriers aren't very good at killing subcaps. In large numbers lag becomes a limiting factor but the same can be said about very large subcap fleets.

If you need proof that supercaps can be defeated just look at the fight we had under the jammer in 3G. DRF aligned forces jumped into a mixed supercap and subcap fleet without being able to bring in our own supercaps, and we won the fight convincingly on both the gate and the jammer pos. By the time we brought our supercaps in they only served to help kill things before the logoff timer, not to swing the fight itself. Supercap logoff timers are in desperate need of being greatly increased alongside the general supercap rebalance btw.

cheeba
June 2 2011, 04:25:14 PM
Don't play the "they are kids we are the older generation crap" unless you got actual facts to hand to support this.


Then please don't play the "Vuk RMTs all the tech goo into more cyber cafes" unless you have actual facts to hand to support this.





@ raivi - you make a good point. I guess the effect of large super fleets is also a psycological one. Already feeling down, many subcap fcs wouldn't venture past cyno jammed systems because of the constant fear of being dropped on or portalled onto.

Rans
June 2 2011, 04:46:05 PM
Well if MM sunk most of it's tech isk in t2 bpos, then why were the members flying BCs? You should have extremely cheap t2 of any kind. I'm not trolling, but NC people defending how the tech isk was spent by their leadership is laughable.

Helen
June 2 2011, 04:52:44 PM
Don't play the "they are kids we are the older generation crap" unless you got actual facts to hand to support this.


Then please don't play the "Vuk RMTs all the tech goo into more cyber cafes" unless you have actual facts to hand to support this.





@ raivi - you make a good point. I guess the effect of large super fleets is also a psycological one. Already feeling down, many subcap fcs wouldn't venture past cyno jammed systems because of the constant fear of being dropped on or portalled onto.

The whole Vuk RMT's was a response to "ebil RUS RMT to get supers so they can take tech to sell isk".

Beside what does Vuk RMTing have to do with MM/NC et al being the "older generation" and what do you have to support that notion? You seem to think that being an "older generation" and marking PL/WN as hackers/exploiters/script kiddies makes you claim the moral high ground or something?
:tumbleweed:
Exactly nothing just like we can't prove Vuk RMT's nor can NC back up the ages old all RUS RMT.

cheeba
June 2 2011, 05:29:38 PM
Well if MM sunk most of it's tech isk in t2 bpos, then why were the members flying BCs? You should have extremely cheap t2 of any kind. I'm not trolling, but NC people defending how the tech isk was spent by their leadership is laughable.

Because shield bc fleets were a standard nc fleet for our less experienced FCs. As fleet after fleet got welped, fcs were sometimes more comfortable with these.

Every corp had a different replacement scheme. I believe there is no harm done now in sharing FUSENs, here is a partial screenie from our online ordering site:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii131/acdalad/b8ee3df4.jpg





@ Helen. Pls stop being so argumentative. I was never claiming PL were kiddies or hackers. Nor was i claiming MM was grandpas. I was just saying the warm fuzzy carebear lands of tribute attracted more casual gamers who had less game time often than people attracted to the pvp-centric ones. I would love to survey the members of the main alliances, to see if there are in fact significant demographic differences between them that correspond to playstyle. Enough on this now.

Helen
June 2 2011, 05:34:21 PM
I don't think you'll find me arguing with the opinion that NC attracted more casual gamers.

I'll do a recap to cover actual events that neither side can deny happened in a bit with a update "as of now" style to show what the current state of play is. Just need to read a few things on other sites. :obama:

Hellkyte
June 2 2011, 06:17:03 PM
- Tech Investment – Most MM corps expected tech to be nerfed sooner rather than later and so to safeguard against a future shift by CCP, much ISK was invested heavily into high end t2 bpos in order to guarentee future income.

There is your failure, or at least a strong symptom of the major part of it. This reminds me of Civ/4x type games. At a certain point in your development of an empire you have to make a decision between balancing investments in financial growth and military growth. The NC went too far into financial growth and did not build the military backbone necessary to win the war. This has happened to me many times playing Civ.

The difference is that in Civ, when Ghenghis Khan comes knocking at my door, I either have the ability to defend against him or I loose the game, he doesn't attack and then back off. The NC had every indication of the power of DRF and Co during round 1 around Christmas. They then even had a grace period to up their own defences in preparation for what should have been understood as an impending invasion, but instead their military withered on the vine, as it were.

Ultimately this was a strategic failure of not addressing obvious weaknesses in the empire. I fail to believe that finances are a valid excuse here (see below), but getting competent supercap pilots takes time. The characters can be purchased but you still need a cohesive core of people that can run them, and the NC didn't have that.

Finances are no excuse though. T2 BPOs are a massively long term investment to "pay themselves off", but in general I hate that term/concept as you can usually resell them to the market at a similar if not higher price then they were purchased at (granted it's not a 1 day sale but in a couple of weeks you should get a good price for it.)

The T2 BPOs are, therefore, not really a good excuse for lacking the capital for supercaps as they could have liquidated the BPOs and used the proceeds to pay for a supercap fleet. Most high-end BPOs (depending on your definition) will easily pay for a supercap, many will pay for a fully fit Titan. This begs the question of why didn't the NC liquidate?

It's an interesting question. Why no liquidate their financial instruments so that they could build a fleet? How many of these T2 BPOs do they still have? How many of them are still in the hands of a small number of directors? If the alliances collapse who is going to be left holding those trillions in assets that weren't leveraged for defense?

Edit: Is it just me or does it seem like analysis/chest-thumping/blame games of the fail cascade really deserves it's own thread, doesn't seem right for it to be in this thread which should be about BRs/current combat, but as far as I can tell there isn't another place to talk about that right now.

cheeba
June 2 2011, 06:31:59 PM
Ultimately this was a strategic failure of not addressing obvious weaknesses in the empire.


Yes. I believe there was underestimation and/or apathy from the top regarding the storm that was brewing.


This begs the question of why didn't the NC liquidate?


As stated, it wasnt a question of isk, it was a problem of pilots. Corps could have spent 100b+ on a pilot and titan. But those who had exp with flying supers already had them and that toon+ship werent going to be handed out to someone who had no idea how to use it. All the isk in the world cant buy you more active + knowledgeable pilots.

I have no idea about how much was put overall into bpo investment. It was not the primary spend but I mentioned it as it was a factor in where funds were being allocated. My corp invested its spare revunue into supers and I am sitting in a corp funded nyx.

The Monkeysphere
June 2 2011, 07:02:31 PM
I like believing that the entire "fffff PL exploits we can't fight them" factor perpetuated on a pretty big scale by my past exploits in the realm of EVE has had a profound effect on bringing down NC


You can thank me by sending me isk and making me resub if you wish :obama:

Deja Thoris
June 2 2011, 09:00:48 PM
This is aimed mainly at the brigade that say supers broke the game (tl'dr R&K raped WIDOT supercap fleet with BS, logis and tactics) viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84&start=40 (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84&start=40)

I don't see why this can't scale up.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
If you look at the totals brought in from the sides though:


Widot: 1 titan, 7 Supercarriers (6 Nyx, 1 Wyvern), 6 dreads (3 Revelation, 2 Moros, 1 Naglfar), 9 Carriers (3 Chimera, 3 Thanatos, 2 Archons, 1 Nid) = 23 caps (including 8 supers).

RnK: 25 Battleships, 12 Guardians, CS, 4 dictors


Later arrivals (with most of the original widot caps scattered):

Stealth bomber fleet from NAP or War, helping Widot for some reason by trying to kill our dictors (probably for their own reasons rather than official widot backup). Not sure on their numbers, though we killed 5-6 of their bombers.

Huzzah: 13 BS, 5-6 dictors, some fluffy stuff, helping RnK.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________


As am outsider (though hardly neutral since I'm fapping greatly about the NC dieing) my take on it is this. Its easy to chestbeat and threaten supercap armageddon on smaller entities. When the numbers become even then *gasp* there is a chance of real loss and lets face it, the NC is risk averse and its strength was always its numbers. If the numbers didn't deter, then the reality of the blackscreen and lag certainly did. That has always been your solution, to "bring more" - not "bring better" or "fight smarter"

Now the game has changed somewhat. Lag is still bad but the server generally can cough out the result that setups and skill deserves. Now, when the PL FC announces 50 NC supers active, the PL rank and file are thinking "fuck yeah, lets kill them!". When the NC FC announces 50 PL supers are active, the NC rank and files response is "afk, kid crying - it sounds serious, I'll be back in a month!"
You can try and rationalise it away and tell us people in supers are bittervets and only log in once a week, anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise. An example - 2 1/2 months ago the NC managed to form up 28 supers before a log off timer expired on some supers of yours we were killing. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=9140753 Superfast forumup for a gank (excuse the pun!). Now that "fights" are available those same supers that were at your beck and call in the time it takes to boil a kettle are conspicuosly absent (check the BR - loads of them havent had a kill in over a month)

I hope when all the furore dies down some NC pilots will be able to look back objectively and see they were just sheeple in an e-herd living by the "safety in numbers" mantra.

Jester
June 2 2011, 09:13:43 PM
It's a good idea, but it scales up poorly because once you have six or more enemy Titans on the field, they just start DD'ing your logis, making your BSs easy meat for their support fleet and supercap fighters.

PL did this to PB residents a couple of times when they were invading PB early this year, when we started to get some traction around using decent BS fleets against them. It broke the back of the PB resident's ability to try to drive PL out on our own. In one battle on PL's KB (with their little kill timeline), you could see the spikes every five minutes after the DDs went off and the slaughter that would ensue immediately afterward.

Caius Sivaris
June 3 2011, 12:04:38 AM
- Tech Investment – Most MM corps expected tech to be nerfed sooner rather than later and so to safeguard against a future shift by CCP, much ISK was invested heavily into high end t2 bpos in order to guarentee future income.


Seriously? Can't anyone count in MM and see T2 BPOs are now status symbols and certainly not investments?

cheeba
June 3 2011, 12:21:28 AM
- Tech Investment – Most MM corps expected tech to be nerfed sooner rather than later and so to safeguard against a future shift by CCP, much ISK was invested heavily into high end t2 bpos in order to guarentee future income.


Seriously? Can't anyone count in MM and see T2 BPOs are now status symbols and certainly not investments?

there is a lot more one can do with bpos than just build from them...

Caius Sivaris
June 3 2011, 12:39:19 AM
- Tech Investment – Most MM corps expected tech to be nerfed sooner rather than later and so to safeguard against a future shift by CCP, much ISK was invested heavily into high end t2 bpos in order to guarentee future income.


Seriously? Can't anyone count in MM and see T2 BPOs are now status symbols and certainly not investments?

there is a lot more one can do with bpos than just build from them...

Huh? If you mean that you can always recoup your investment by reselling it you need to find someone more retarded than you for it to happen. As you get closer to the bubble bursting it gets harder and harder, the bubble bursting when it gets impossible... Not claiming that the T2 BPO bubble will burst anytime soon as I said they are now status symbols and lots of people have too much ISK. Still not seeing how they can be seen as a smart investment...

Don Pellegrino
June 3 2011, 01:05:51 AM
[quote=cheeba]
- Tech Investment – Most MM corps expected tech to be nerfed sooner rather than later and so to safeguard against a future shift by CCP, much ISK was invested heavily into high end t2 bpos in order to guarentee future income.


Seriously? Can't anyone count in MM and see T2 BPOs are now status symbols and certainly not investments?

there is a lot more one can do with bpos than just build from them...

Huh? If you mean that you can always recoup your investment by reselling it you need to find someone more retarded than you for it to happen. As you get closer to the bubble bursting it gets harder and harder, the bubble bursting when it gets impossible... Not claiming that the T2 BPO bubble will burst anytime soon as I said they are now status symbols and lots of people have too much ISK. Still not seeing how they can be seen as a smart investment...[/quote:xephfkfx]
viewtopic.php?p=86738#p86738 (http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=86738#p86738)

Garst Tyrell
June 3 2011, 01:37:02 AM
OVRHT destroyed a BAND pos in northern venal today. We killed it without any drama and moved our hellcats back to our midpoint titan to see if we couldnt shit on any of the evaccing caps jumping around venal like crazy. Goons scouted us, band probably bleated to them about losing the tower, so vee took a gang in to shoot it to provoke us into a fight. Sadly we were unable to stront it before goons got on the tower.

We moved a cyno back and jumped into a ping off the tower; goons bounced their own ping and warped to us at 50 to begin the fight. Numbers were roughly even at this point, about 70v80ish. We were forced to burn after them and bounce triage carriers around in order to try to run them down. The fight went well but we traded most our tackle and all bubblers for a greater bloodletting on their battleships. While regrouping they bridged in more reinforcements so we asked the ncdot regroup to move our way. By the time they got in range the tower had just died, we jumped in again. Goons warped to 0 inexplicably and aggroed on us, so we engaged back and lit our cyno for a similarly sized hellcat ncdot gang to jump in with a couple more triage carriers. We forced goons off the field but were unable to kill their new anchored tower or finish off their fleet as it bounced safes and continued to grow in number with backup fleets sitting on a titan a few jumps away.

Deciding that after attrition we were too outnumbered, we made our escape and finished the night off by shitting on some gypsy band ihubs in branch before heading home.

GF goons ty for the fight

http://www.merciless-alliance.com/killb ... l_id=20910 (http://www.merciless-alliance.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=20910)
Ncdot joined for the second skirmish

Mesh M
June 3 2011, 09:10:36 AM
Regarding the whole super vs subcap thingy: yep, you can kill smaller groups of supers with subcaps. But I'm not so sure if the same is true if you reach a certain threshold of supers on grid, especially when carrier supported. The DPS needed to scale up with the rep rather quickly reaches a level where the only thing you certainly will achieve is breaking the node. Not to mention the already stated problem of titans dding commandships and guardians (which was one of the major concerns we had when we saw the supers in this fight (http://www.failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=492)- fortunately only our damnation got DD ganked).
We've had our runins with Imperians roaming super gang about half a year ago and while we didn't get spanked we quite often had to clear the field without being able to kill anything (granted being out- or equalnumbered on caps/supers vs bs/guardians isn't a good starter anyways). But the dps is quite real and ecm burst spam can be a problem as well. In the end most supers die on lone gank attempts or when dropped into a trap in numbers of 1-5 (and ofc those ratting supers are there as well).

As far as i can see though in the recent conflict NC wasn't even able to win subcap fights so there is no real reason to shift the blame on superblobs only.

Hunlight
June 3 2011, 09:19:34 AM
Damn garst beat me to the br was going to write one up this morning :) was good fight shame they decided to double their numbers by the end. either way good fights was had.

Traxio Nacho
June 3 2011, 10:40:45 AM
Any chance of an update of what is happening in the north now? Has NC just given up their space and moved to NPC space? I noticed NC had killed some SBU's and a TCU (Even had SC on it) the other day so are they still putting up a fight?

makenshi
June 3 2011, 11:00:41 AM
Last I hear they were falling back to Venal and trying to regroup, I don't know much more than that atm

cyberjunk
June 3 2011, 11:18:28 AM
Apparently PL just hotdropped and vaporized Imperians levi:
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboa ... ?id=410556 (https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=410556)

Anybody able to tell how they managed to snag him?

walrus
June 3 2011, 11:21:26 AM
id like to see some Razor propaganda posters!

speaking of: whats happening to Branch/Tenal?

anheuser
June 3 2011, 12:32:40 PM
As noted earlier, RZR are clearing out Tenal. Raiden should now have a TCU onlined in EOY. Before DT there was a gang of IRC running around reffing stuff in the A1RR and surrounding systems. Not sure what else is happening currently in Branch.

Smuggo
June 3 2011, 12:42:02 PM
The number of dead jump freighters in the area over the last few days basically points to full evac.

Tellenta
June 3 2011, 01:19:05 PM
- Tech Investment – Most MM corps expected tech to be nerfed sooner rather than later and so to safeguard against a future shift by CCP, much ISK was invested heavily into high end t2 bpos in order to guarentee future income.

There is your failure, or at least a strong symptom of the major part of it. This reminds me of Civ/4x type games. At a certain point in your development of an empire you have to make a decision between balancing investments in financial growth and military growth. The NC went too far into financial growth and did not build the military backbone necessary to win the war. This has happened to me many times playing Civ.

The difference is that in Civ, when Ghenghis Khan comes knocking at my door, I either have the ability to defend against him or I loose the game, he doesn't attack and then back off. The NC had every indication of the power of DRF and Co during round 1 around Christmas. They then even had a grace period to up their own defences in preparation for what should have been understood as an impending invasion, but instead their military withered on the vine, as it were.

Ultimately this was a strategic failure of not addressing obvious weaknesses in the empire. I fail to believe that finances are a valid excuse here (see below), but getting competent supercap pilots takes time. The characters can be purchased but you still need a cohesive core of people that can run them, and the NC didn't have that.

Finances are no excuse though. T2 BPOs are a massively long term investment to "pay themselves off", but in general I hate that term/concept as you can usually resell them to the market at a similar if not higher price then they were purchased at (granted it's not a 1 day sale but in a couple of weeks you should get a good price for it.)

The T2 BPOs are, therefore, not really a good excuse for lacking the capital for supercaps as they could have liquidated the BPOs and used the proceeds to pay for a supercap fleet. Most high-end BPOs (depending on your definition) will easily pay for a supercap, many will pay for a fully fit Titan. This begs the question of why didn't the NC liquidate?

It's an interesting question. Why no liquidate their financial instruments so that they could build a fleet? How many of these T2 BPOs do they still have? How many of them are still in the hands of a small number of directors? If the alliances collapse who is going to be left holding those trillions in assets that weren't leveraged for defense?

Edit: Is it just me or does it seem like analysis/chest-thumping/blame games of the fail cascade really deserves it's own thread, doesn't seem right for it to be in this thread which should be about BRs/current combat, but as far as I can tell there isn't another place to talk about that right now.

This also overlooks the fact that they had ready access to the very items that make T2 production expensive and therefore were capable of producing the T2 items at an extremely low cost to themselves on an isk in isk returned basis. This lowers the time to profit on a T2 BPO by a huge margin.

Badboy K
June 3 2011, 01:31:16 PM
Apparently PL just hotdropped and vaporized Imperians levi:
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboa ... ?id=410556 (https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=410556)

Anybody able to tell how they managed to snag him?


apparently:


Jumped to a cynogen 3 mins before dt and got dropped by 30 supers


(12:09:32 PM) rawr-hirr-imperian: wow, I had all my personal ships to evac in that titan

Traxio Nacho
June 3 2011, 02:02:47 PM
Imp catching up with Molle on the most lost titans? That is 3 now? 2 Avatars 1 Levi?

Hellkyte
June 3 2011, 02:36:08 PM
This also overlooks the fact that they had ready access to the very items that make T2 production expensive and therefore were capable of producing the T2 items at an extremely low cost to themselves on an isk in isk returned basis. This lowers the time to profit on a T2 BPO by a huge margin.

If you're saying it was cheaper for them because they had their own tech/moongoo supply, that is the same argument as mining makes it free. The only advantage to generating your own materials for production is the ease of access, not the cost. The cost of any liquid tech item is defined solely by the market price, regardless of whether you generated it or not.

This is because they simply could have sold the tech to the market, so the cost of building with it has to be defined as the oppurtunity cost of not selling it, hence they pay the same price as everyone else.

In fact, logistically....I don't think it would make much difference if they used their own supplies, it might even make it more difficult. If they build the T2 components/ships in 0.0 then the logistics of getting *some* of the raw materials is easier as they are local, however other raw materials are not easily found in null sec. Couple that with having to use a JF to move the products out of null sec....I dunno. My guess is that they leveraged those BPOs in high sec and bought their materials off of the market like everyone else.

"Friends don't let friends think vertical integration saves money!"

Gix Tyrionn
June 3 2011, 03:22:40 PM
I like believing that the entire "fffff PL exploits we can't fight them" factor perpetuated on a pretty big scale by my past exploits in the realm of EVE has had a profound effect on bringing down NC


You can thank me by sending me isk and making me resub if you wish :obama:

If you offered awoxing and botter catching classes I'm sure you could [strike:o2jft74t]scam[/strike:o2jft74t] earn enough to stay resubbed with low effort. Especially if you sell the idea that everywhere from feythabolis to deklein is owned by ebil botting russians in pimped tengu's

Rudolf Miller
June 3 2011, 03:37:29 PM
Because I'm a terrible person and am very lazy.. please to be showing some of the JF kills?

Raivi
June 3 2011, 03:46:24 PM
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboa ... ,freighter (https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/?&stype=jump_freighter,freighter)

Shows the current month, so just the last 3 days.

A more complete list of dead evacuees can be found by widening the search a bit:

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboa ... rier,titan (https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/?&stype=jump_freighter,freighter,carrier,titan)

Tellenta
June 3 2011, 03:46:29 PM
This also overlooks the fact that they had ready access to the very items that make T2 production expensive and therefore were capable of producing the T2 items at an extremely low cost to themselves on an isk in isk returned basis. This lowers the time to profit on a T2 BPO by a huge margin.

If you're saying it was cheaper for them because they had their own tech/moongoo supply, that is the same argument as mining makes it free. The only advantage to generating your own materials for production is the ease of access, not the cost. The cost of any liquid tech item is defined solely by the market price, regardless of whether you generated it or not.

This is because they simply could have sold the tech to the market, so the cost of building with it has to be defined as the oppurtunity cost of not selling it, hence they pay the same price as everyone else.

In fact, logistically....I don't think it would make much difference if they used their own supplies, it might even make it more difficult. If they build the T2 components/ships in 0.0 then the logistics of getting *some* of the raw materials is easier as they are local, however other raw materials are not easily found in null sec. Couple that with having to use a JF to move the products out of null sec....I dunno. My guess is that they leveraged those BPOs in high sec and bought their materials off of the market like everyone else.

"Friends don't let friends think vertical integration saves money!"

While to opportunity cost argument has its valid uses it also ignores the fundamental flaw in some assumptions. Conversion in to T2 modules and ships is a value enhancer so the concept that they would make more from just selling to market is in fact a poor one. This game is designed perfectly profit through vertical integration especially in respects to an alliance that has maintained their space as long as the NC has.

One would presume the T2 BPO's are in highsec as it is more secure for the long haul there and reduces logistical needs on the other hand there is the mothership proliferation which requires so much more in volume of the same materials you also claim are hard to get in null sec so the raw material argument is kind of vague. The sheer volume of moon poo that they can(could?) produce is greater than they can presumably consume in a month by month basis due to BPO production limits
so they would have the benefit of both selling straight to market and producing T2 items at book value which is different than market value by a wide margin, tech let alone the rest of the crap doesn't cost near as much to make as jita market would want you to imagine.

This of course assumes that the T2 BPO purchases was anything other than an asset acquisition by someone with access to the wallet for their own personal gain and not as it is being presented as an alliance asset. So in summation the opportunity cost of sifting some moon poo towards their T2 BPO owners for manufacture if actually a net gain both in the fact that T2 manufacture can be done anywhere there is open manufacturing slots and in the fact that the net value of the materials also increases in relation to direct to market sale. Forcing purchase from jita market would just increase the cost all around simply through the tax isk spent.

Also it's nothing at all like the 'if I mine it the minerals are free' argument. Sorry for the derail.

Qwert
June 3 2011, 07:14:20 PM
Come to think of it, aren't we reaching the point of Titan proliferation where other titans can be one-shot DD'd? Figure ~30M EHP and 2M a DD, that's "only" 15 Titans, with a high estimate on the EHP and a low on the DD damage. Heck, by my count, the PL supercap parade had 20.

Rans
June 3 2011, 07:21:22 PM
Titans have been getting one shotted since winter if I'm not mistaken.

Rudolf Miller
June 3 2011, 07:21:39 PM
Come to think of it, aren't we reaching the point of Titan proliferation where other titans can be one-shot DD'd? Figure ~30M EHP and 2M a DD, that's "only" 15 Titans, with a high estimate on the EHP and a low on the DD damage. Heck, by my count, the PL supercap parade had 20.

And we all sat aghast as the NC/PL/Goon titan parade DD'd a carrier to death. Oh, memories.

Helen
June 3 2011, 07:27:34 PM
Titans have been getting one shotted since winter if I'm not mistaken.

Its been happening to the point where in 3G- dd's were split between two titans as it would of been overkill otherwise.

Rudolf Miller
June 3 2011, 07:28:28 PM
Titans have been getting one shotted since winter if I'm not mistaken.

Its been happening to the point where in 3G- dd's were split between two titans as it would of been overkill otherwise.

Overkill is underrated ~~~~

Helen
June 3 2011, 07:32:31 PM
Well no point just letting kills get away, even if sala did manage to logoff and not die.
Well until he logged back in again...

smuggo
June 3 2011, 10:14:43 PM
So... now that the NC has folded what now? Who are the big players going to be, where will the next 'big war' happen?

Resi
June 3 2011, 10:17:55 PM
The Russians are the big evil, now, and whoever deposes them will be the next big evil.

EchoEpsilon23
June 3 2011, 10:24:10 PM
So... now that the NC has folded what now? Who are the big players going to be, where will the next 'big war' happen?

I wouldn't count them off just yet. Unless sov starts dropping, I would think most of this exodus is fat, or casual members that don't have the balls to stand and fight.

Traxio Nacho
June 3 2011, 10:41:14 PM
If PL go away the NC might have a chance but if PL stay around for a while I can't see anything changing.

If the "fat" leaves then that is a good part of what makes up the NC's blob that has made them so successful in the past, from what I've seen it seems the NC has no one in charge that really cares enough and are just playing the "DRF are evil RMTers its not our fault we can't win" card.

The big space holding players I would imagine will come down to DRF, AAA/SE/Coven/etc block and maybe Evoke./NC./Merciless (maybe not so big but certainly high level of skill)

Armyofme
June 3 2011, 10:42:10 PM
So... now that the NC has folded what now? Who are the big players going to be, where will the next 'big war' happen?

I wouldn't count them off just yet. Unless sov starts dropping, I would think most of this exodus is fat, or casual members that don't have the balls to stand and fight.and because of that the NC cant use the tactics its most famous for
http://wtfcontent.com/img/130192380361.jpg


For them to fight back would also require their supercap pilots to log back in, something wich doesnt look like it will happen anytime soon

vackris
June 3 2011, 10:43:36 PM
So... now that the NC has folded what now? Who are the big players going to be, where will the next 'big war' happen?

I wouldn't count them off just yet. Unless sov starts dropping, I would think most of this exodus is fat, or casual members that don't have the balls to stand and fight.

RZR is evaccing to Venal as I type. NCdot has sov in a few systems in tribute, with more in reinforce. Goons reset everyone in the NC except MM and RZR.

If this isn't the end of the NC as we know it.... :psyduck:

GiDiYi
June 3 2011, 10:53:32 PM
I don't want to sound like a ravid fanboy, but the only person that could possibly pull off something like a turnaround for the NC now is maybe Imperian (and that's a maybe).

From what I gathered over the last few days, he just can't be arsed to care anymore and I expect him to be a happy grunt/skymarshall in PL before the end of the year.

Vuk maybe was a good delegator, but he lost the care-factor and the sheer grip of the status and reality possibly about a year ago.

It's all coming down like a house of cards now. Check mate. Fucking finally.

P.S.: I was a member of the NC for more than a year in the past (roughly from late 2008 to late 2009). I liked quite a few of the people there, but the majority has just plain quit or went to greener pastures. What is left is just a carcass with a leadership, that still thinks it's 2008. Jesus christ, I sound bitter.

Never mind me. It's late on a friday after an awful week in work. :monocledowns:

smuggo
June 3 2011, 10:58:24 PM
I think that we're all agreed that the NC as a whole is dead and buried. There are some good pilots, corps and alliances buried somewhere in that shitheap but it's up to them to find somewhere to go now.

Lancehot
June 3 2011, 10:58:42 PM
Now we just have to wait for the dust to settle, the sov to switch, & see which part of the galaxy CCP turn into the next isk printer when they cock up trying to rebalance moon minerals again. Wherever the money is, that's where the big bad guys will be.

edit: even if the NC now were arguably a bloated shell of their former selves, I'm still sad to see them go. Virtually my entire time in 0.0 was spent either flying with or fighting the NC since around 2006, so it's an end to a pretty long era in EVE.

Rudolf Miller
June 3 2011, 11:25:20 PM
So with roughly ~40,000 worthless membership displaced..... what is to become of 0.0?

Deja Thoris
June 4 2011, 12:18:16 AM
So with roughly ~40,000 worthless membership displaced..... what is to become of 0.0?

Didn't you hear? It's been taken over by a great evil - Russians who RMT all their ISK, while at the same time they pay for mercs and SC fleets with the ISK that they RMT'd. Go figure.

Tellenta
June 4 2011, 12:25:00 AM
[quote="Rudolf Miller":1fz5d5w3]So with roughly ~40,000 worthless membership displaced..... what is to become of 0.0?

Didn't you hear? It's been taken over by a great evil - Russians who RMT all their ISK, while at the same time they pay for mercs and SC fleets with the ISK that they RMT'd. Go figure.[/quote:1fz5d5w3]

The circle of life is complete?

joe space
June 4 2011, 12:46:47 AM
make moons destructable and disband alliances

start flying like the hero you were when you took out that webbing drone on day one again

Jackblasta
June 4 2011, 12:55:08 AM
So... now that the NC has folded what now? Who are the big players going to be, where will the next 'big war' happen?

I wouldn't count them off just yet. Unless sov starts dropping, I would think most of this exodus is fat, or casual members that don't have the balls to stand and fight.

RZR is evaccing to Venal as I type. NCdot has sov in a few systems in tribute, with more in reinforce. Goons reset everyone in the NC except MM and RZR.

If this isn't the end of the NC as we know it.... :psyduck:

You sure they've reset all of NC barring MM and RZR?. Cos I thought PB based 'western NC' such as MH/WTF/FCON were being kept as blues...

Marlona Sky
June 4 2011, 02:10:48 AM
What I like is the small skirmishes here and there in the wake of the NC cascade. One can only assume (hope?) that we will continue to see more and more of this long after the NC has been completely removed.

Lithia Tsanov
June 4 2011, 02:32:13 AM
Former NC member here:

It's always sad to see an era end. I have a number of friends in MM and would hapily welcome any of them to hang in Syndi for a couple weeks of weed and beer.

That said, I certainly hope that the NC leadership changes. The current leaders were pretty darn uninspiring. Their attitude toward progressive combat techniques was disappointing (the reason I left after 6 solid months as #1 TK). I really think that they were simply bored with eve or had new priorities in RL. They certainly weren't excited about eve, learning anything new, or relinquishing control to someone who was.

The biggest question I had while in MM was "where does all the money go". I took a look at the moons, the rocks, the rats...... I'm pretty sure that Tribute could produce a titan-per-day without overtaxing the natural resources or residents. If anyone seriously knows where it went (Up someone's nose for example), I'd be happy to hear about it.

Glad to hear Rydis/Laz are still kickin. It's nice to see charismatic leadership mixed with extensive combat experience. I have fond memories of our time together in PB during the fourth Bob war (500 "ship" kills in one week with an eight man guerrilla team)

Lith

Takon Orlani
June 4 2011, 02:37:54 AM
What I like is the small skirmishes here and there in the wake of the NC cascade. One can only assume (hope?) that we will continue to see more and more of this long after the NC has been completely removed.
Hopefully it will be all split up and squabbled over for a few months.

Marlona Sky
June 4 2011, 02:51:35 AM
[quote="Marlona Sky":2ue3a0l0]What I like is the small skirmishes here and there in the wake of the NC cascade. One can only assume (hope?) that we will continue to see more and more of this long after the NC has been completely removed.
Hopefully it will be all split up and squabbled over for a few months.[/quote:2ue3a0l0]

Months? I'm hoping for years.

Garst Tyrell
June 4 2011, 04:01:50 AM
QFF taken for ncdot, marking the first station to flip in tribute.

I think my station name won the contest in fleet :)

Marlona Sky
June 4 2011, 04:30:36 AM
I think my station name won the contest in fleet :)

Which is?...

Daco
June 4 2011, 05:02:04 AM
The DBT station will be called Day Brought Titans :P

Which is about to ping.

Sponk
June 4 2011, 07:37:34 AM
You sure they've reset all of NC barring MM and RZR?. Cos I thought PB based 'western NC' such as MH/WTF/FCON were being kept as blues...

DC has retained +5 to Fade/Pure Blind corps, except for the shit ones.

As of right now (http://standings.pleaseignore.com/), TEST seems to have done the same (although I recalled they said they would reset the entire NC yesteday so vOv)

Surveyor
June 4 2011, 06:52:28 PM
So TEST will reset Goons ? :D

BlueOrca
June 4 2011, 09:48:05 PM
Tenal clean-up is in full swing.
The 30 or so systems that RZR TCU-ed in the last days, are going down quickly, station systems are going down slower,
but with no real attempt of defending them, I think that by the end of the month, we will have Tenal.

Rudolf Miller
June 5 2011, 12:37:58 AM
Tenal clean-up is in full swing.
The 30 or so systems that RZR TCU-ed in the last days, are going down quickly, station systems are going down slower,
but with no real attempt of defending them, I think that by the end of the month, we will have Tenal.

hnnnnggghhhh

content: remember april 1st last year we thought this would be long done by now?

Marlona Sky
June 5 2011, 03:55:01 AM
So TEST will reset Goons ? :D

They are the same thing tbh. The Tomax and Xamot of EVE, only the retarded versions.

Helen
June 5 2011, 06:30:06 PM
Quick status update on the Northern situation.

29 MM/RZR stations in RF.

UFA to disband.

+ ???? more tech.

depili
June 5 2011, 06:49:20 PM
Quick status update on the Northern situation.

29 MM/RZR stations in RF.

UFA to disband.

+ ???? more tech.

That is some major reinforcing there

Helen
June 5 2011, 07:56:03 PM
People got bored with no fleets to shoot at.
So much for sticking it to "the man" and putting down loads of stations to slow aggressors eh.

Garst Tyrell
June 5 2011, 07:59:16 PM
[quote="Garst Tyrell":261x3isw]I think my station name won the contest in fleet :)

Which is?...[/quote:261x3isw]

QFF Quick Firesale Fleamarket

shame they didnt use my idea for M-O Motherships Online

Fara
June 5 2011, 08:47:14 PM
[quote="Marlona Sky":74fgunhy][quote="Garst Tyrell":74fgunhy]I think my station name won the contest in fleet :)

Which is?...[/quote:74fgunhy]

QFF Quick Firesale Fleamarket

shame they didnt use my idea for M-O Motherships Online[/quote:74fgunhy]

I can see how [strike:74fgunhy]humorous[/strike:74fgunhy] [strike:74fgunhy]witty[/strike:74fgunhy] merciless you are.

Krugerrand
June 5 2011, 09:05:28 PM
Lots of heavy traffic apparently passing through ec-, looks like evacuation stuff.

Helen
June 5 2011, 10:20:19 PM
Lots of heavy traffic apparently passing through ec-, looks like evacuation stuff.

Yeah this is no big surprise you boys still in Saranen area?

Krugerrand
June 5 2011, 10:38:29 PM
Lots of heavy traffic apparently passing through ec-, looks like evacuation stuff.

Yeah this is no big surprise you boys still in Saranen area?

c, though p. quiet for us atm what with at9. Leave us something to shoot :(

HyJek
June 5 2011, 10:56:01 PM
So do the DRF/Raiden/ect. have any plans to take some of Tribute? I know about the huge amount of stations in reinforce, but as far as I can tell NCdot are the only alliance to take any of them yet.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Tribute

anheuser
June 5 2011, 11:01:51 PM
Raiden had a TCU onlining in EOY (Tenal, not Tribute) on Friday, so assume they'd take the station there. IRC were doing stuff over near Cobalt Edge, so they'll probably expand in to that part. No idea who might try to claim tribute. I'd guess NCdot would as they're the only ones that don't seem to have put a stick in the ground yet.

Marlona Sky
June 6 2011, 12:43:45 AM
Raiden had a TCU onlining in EOY (Tenal, not Tribute) on Friday, so assume they'd take the station there. IRC were doing stuff over near Cobalt Edge, so they'll probably expand in to that part. No idea who might try to claim tribute. I'd guess NCdot would as they're the only ones that don't seem to have put a stick in the ground yet.

I'm pretty sure we have claimed some systems but will need to verify when I have time to log in tomorrow. Also right before I logged out someone said they saw ton of RZR carriers docking at a station that is only 3-4 jumps from h-pa where we reside. You guys moving in there or was it just some mid-point for the carriers at that time?

Dogbeast
June 6 2011, 12:51:23 AM
Quick question for the major parties involved (including NC entities still in the area). Is there anyway to get an accurate count on the total tech moons in the northern space (Tribute, Tenal, Branch, etc) and the type of moons? Or will this be a statistic kept under wraps as with the previous owners?

It would be nice to get an accurate read on the total isk value of that space in comparison to other regions, and how long MM/RZR has been milking them.

Sponk
June 6 2011, 01:22:25 AM
Don't know about accurate, but public knowledge is:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Venal/moons/tec
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Tenal/moons/tec
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Tribute/moons/tec
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Branch/moons/tec

etc

which I am fairly certain is missing some moons.

Dogbeast
June 6 2011, 02:26:04 AM
Don't know about accurate, but public knowledge is:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Venal/moons/tec
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Tenal/moons/tec
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Tribute/moons/tec
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Branch/moons/tec

etc

which I am fairly certain is missing some moons.

Yea, that's what I'm talking about specifically. Most other regions have been covered except for a few, which all are in the north.

Sponk
June 6 2011, 02:45:51 AM
well, you'll need contacts in stainwagon or someone who doesn't give a shit about the North to leak their scan data, because both NC and DRF aren't interested in disclosure.

Daco
June 6 2011, 05:46:00 AM
NCdot/Merciless have been running around RFing/taking stations in Tribute (leaving NCdot to actually claim the stations) there has been no sign of DRF/Raiden in Tribute from the fleets I have been in. Today alone I was in a carrier/supercarrier fleet and took 2 stations and it was like that yesterday as well.

Tbh it is just nice to be using the Caps instead of them building dust.

Helen
June 6 2011, 06:54:51 AM
Well Raiden/IRC are focusing on Tenal while WN is looking at taking stations in Branch this week.
Letting NCdot/Merciless run around Tribute smashing the place up seems like the best use of force.

Still can't believe how many station systems are in RF its pretty fucking nuts.

As for the guy asking about what NCdot has station wise try using dotlan, they've held a station system in Vale over a week now and they've recently taken station systems in Tribute/Branch.

Fara
June 6 2011, 08:20:59 AM
Quick question for the major parties involved (including NC entities still in the area). Is there anyway to get an accurate count on the total tech moons in the northern space (Tribute, Tenal, Branch, etc) and the type of moons? Or will this be a statistic kept under wraps as with the previous owners?

It would be nice to get an accurate read on the total isk value of that space in comparison to other regions, and how long MM/RZR has been milking them.


Somebody dropped the word of 200-300 once. Think thats including other highends as well toh. I thought its a bit high, but can't put any arguments against it.

Marlona Sky
June 6 2011, 09:09:21 AM
Quick question for the major parties involved (including NC entities still in the area). Is there anyway to get an accurate count on the total tech moons in the northern space (Tribute, Tenal, Branch, etc) and the type of moons? Or will this be a statistic kept under wraps as with the previous owners?

It would be nice to get an accurate read on the total isk value of that space in comparison to other regions, and how long MM/RZR has been milking them.


Somebody dropped the word of 200-300 once. Think thats including other highends as well toh. I thought its a bit high, but can't put any arguments against it.

NC was not worried about people outside of the NC knowing the total amount of tech moon ISK printing presses they had. They were scared their own grunts within the NC itself, of finding out.

I can only imagine the rage of their work force finding out they all could have been pissing caps all over invaders faces if it was not for their leaders RMTing all the tech away. They fought and died so their leaders could remodel their bathrooms.

In the end the only view they got was that of their leaders jumping out of the burning plane opening golden parachutes while they were left with nothing.

Dwergi
June 6 2011, 09:51:30 AM
Merciless/NCdot incapped some cyno jammers yesterday (then reinforced everything with supercarriers) with little to no resistance, apart from the POS of Death: http://merciless-alliance.com/killboard ... l_id=21496 (http://merciless-alliance.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21496)

gf POS gunners, gf.

(Turns out double-webbed Guardians can't tank 15 faction guns, who knew?)

Airow
June 6 2011, 10:40:26 AM
Quick question for the major parties involved (including NC entities still in the area). Is there anyway to get an accurate count on the total tech moons in the northern space (Tribute, Tenal, Branch, etc) and the type of moons? Or will this be a statistic kept under wraps as with the previous owners?

It would be nice to get an accurate read on the total isk value of that space in comparison to other regions, and how long MM/RZR has been milking them.


Somebody dropped the word of 200-300 once. Think thats including other highends as well toh. I thought its a bit high, but can't put any arguments against it.

NC was not worried about people outside of the NC knowing the total amount of tech moon ISK printing presses they had. They were scared their own grunts within the NC itself, of finding out.

I can only imagine the rage of their work force finding out they all could have been pissing caps all over invaders faces if it was not for their leaders RMTing all the tech away. They fought and died so their leaders could remodel their bathrooms.

In the end the only view they got was that of their leaders jumping out of the burning plane opening golden parachutes while they were left with nothing.

http://www.onebit.us/images/tecneo.png

it's a rather old map so numbers could be off

Kalorn
June 6 2011, 11:34:16 AM
Quick question for the major parties involved (including NC entities still in the area). Is there anyway to get an accurate count on the total tech moons in the northern space (Tribute, Tenal, Branch, etc) and the type of moons? Or will this be a statistic kept under wraps as with the previous owners?

It would be nice to get an accurate read on the total isk value of that space in comparison to other regions, and how long MM/RZR has been milking them.


Somebody dropped the word of 200-300 once. Think thats including other highends as well toh. I thought its a bit high, but can't put any arguments against it.

NC was not worried about people outside of the NC knowing the total amount of tech moon ISK printing presses they had. They were scared their own grunts within the NC itself, of finding out.


Semi-accurate. There were a large number of tech moons not listed on dotlan that the NC kept quiet about. Whilst I'm not sure on the specific number (I've heard numbers vary wildly from 20-30 (reliable source), all the way up to 70-80), the previous estimates regarding how much the NC 'earnt' per month were drastically lower than what it actually appeared to be.

Hellkyte
June 6 2011, 02:53:34 PM
We caught so much shit evaccing this weekend that I was actually able to fill and empty my cargohold before my ship sploded. Which is hard because I get my ship sploded a lot, and my corp-mates getting to 0 on the enemy ship before their first cycle finishes. Watching them reminds me of the Night at the Roxberry duders.

I think in one 10 minute stretch we caught a stealth bomber with ~300 mil of stuff in his hold and a crane carrying 100 mil of barrage.

On top of that Tribute turned into firesale central. Made quite a bit on some of those sales.

Anyways, pretty cool weekend. Except for....you know....M-O GOING TO NCDOT.

Marlona Sky
June 6 2011, 07:16:07 PM
Anyways, pretty cool weekend. Except for....you know....M-O GOING TO NCDOT.

Why is Snigg so butt hurt about that anyways?

Helen
June 6 2011, 07:48:14 PM
Anyways, pretty cool weekend. Except for....you know....M-O GOING TO NCDOT.

Why is Snigg so butt hurt about that anyways?

Sniggwaffe, because they were dicking around there for ages and called in PL to help them take it or something.
Then NCdot whored the station. :popcorn:

Marlona Sky
June 6 2011, 07:55:39 PM
Anyways, pretty cool weekend. Except for....you know....M-O GOING TO NCDOT.

Why is Snigg so butt hurt about that anyways?

Sniggwaffe, because they were dicking around there for ages and called in PL to help them take it or something.
Then NCdot whored the station. :popcorn:

Meh. Oh well. Plenty of stations out there. I'm not in tune with who gets what. I just x up to kill shit.

Don Pellegrino
June 6 2011, 08:00:00 PM
M-O gets tons of small gang action and SniggWaffe actually look forward to that unlike NCdot that tend to get mad and make small gangs leave NC-style (blob them away). I, too, am disappointed :emo:

Armyofme
June 6 2011, 08:05:05 PM
To bad ncdot took m-o.

Would have been awesome if waffles had gotten the system

joe space
June 6 2011, 08:48:25 PM
M-O gets tons of small gang action and SniggWaffe actually look forward to that unlike NCdot that tend to get mad and make small gangs leave NC-style (blob them away). I, too, am disappointed :emo:

agreed.

but if dicking around there makes for a claim on sov, then give the system to PODLA, amirite?

seriously though. thought it might be cool if sniggs got it because they are actually much better at giving good fights and not being bads disguised as something else.

:roll: nc. :roll:

Marlona Sky
June 6 2011, 08:53:32 PM
Because having a station in the same system you want to give ~good fights~ is critical. :facepalm:

joe space
June 6 2011, 08:58:38 PM
Because having a station in the same system you want to give ~good fights~ is critical. :facepalm:

whooooooooooooooo :roll: oooooooooooooooooo :roll: ooooooooooooooooooooo :roll: oooooooooooooooooooosssssssssssssssssssssssssh

Don Pellegrino
June 6 2011, 09:16:18 PM
Because having a station in the same system you want to give ~good fights~ is critical. :facepalm:
Having a station = more people from that alliance tend to live there.

Hard deduction was hard.

Traxio Nacho
June 6 2011, 11:33:26 PM
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/06/the ... r-failure/ (http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/06/the-cosmopewlitan-the-end-is-near-the-northern-coalition-follows-atlas-blueprint-for-failure/)

Might be a bit old but the whole chat log just explains why the NC has/is going down the pan so quickly :psyduck: :derper: :monocledowns:

Rudolf Miller
June 6 2011, 11:33:50 PM
FREE M-O

Marlona Sky
June 7 2011, 03:53:14 AM
03:52:36 Combat Your Light Neutron Blaster II places an excellent hit on H-W9TY XII - Moon 2 - H-Week 5 before Tech nerf (Station ( Conquerable 3 )), inflicting 132.9 damage.

Marlona Sky
June 7 2011, 04:09:00 AM
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_ ... 23&nolimit (http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9872623&nolimit)

After years of NC being the cancer of this game, H-W is free! :obama:

Deja Thoris
June 7 2011, 05:39:33 AM
Because having a station in the same system you want to give ~good fights~ is critical. :facepalm:

Chiming in to mock you for this stupid post.

Oops, forgot the ~~~~ :facepalm: ~~~~

Marlona Sky
June 7 2011, 05:53:23 AM
So much butt hurt over M-O, LOVE IT!

Helen
June 7 2011, 06:04:42 AM
Try and keep it on an even keel Marlona otherwise Grarr will just smite your posting like the fist of an angry god.

WH- and H-W have fallen in Tribute, in Tenal S-E and S-K have fallen as well.

Artjay
June 7 2011, 08:32:42 AM
RIP Northern Coalition. I didn't actually believe it would happen quite so quickly, but good job DRF/NC./PL/RDN/Hangers on!

And now, some words form the wise man himself.

A little Indian brave who before he was ten,
Played war games in the woods with his Indian friends
And he built up a dream that when he grew up
He would be a fearless warrior Indian Cheif
Many moons past and more the dream grew strong until
Tomorrow he would sing his first war song and fight his first battle
But something went wrong, surprise attack killed him in his sleep that night

And so castles made of sand melts into the sea, eventually

Krugerrand
June 7 2011, 09:40:52 AM
Quite frankly after the past few years I thought it would take another gameplay change by CCP to finally "fix" the NC.

All empires fall, eventually. Good work!

The Monkeysphere
June 7 2011, 11:07:44 AM
No problem guys, I'll do it again if I have to.

Hellkyte
June 7 2011, 02:43:19 PM
[quote="Marlona Sky":30d1jalm]Because having a station in the same system you want to give ~good fights~ is critical. :facepalm:
Having a station = more people from that alliance tend to live there.

Hard deduction was hard.[/quote:30d1jalm]

Honestly, in terms of our participation in the area it makes absolutely no difference. We are already set up next door so nbd nbd.

I think we just wanted it as a trophy and were a little :emo: about not having our trophy that we could name. I played a little minecraft and am over it now. Also PODLA station would have to be capable of webbing....I really love/hate yall.

antoine lefevre
June 9 2011, 10:19:36 AM
What happened to NCs lay low for a couple o' months and reclaim space -tactic? :emo:
i thought it was designed for a situation like this

Mr Marram
June 9 2011, 11:30:08 AM
What happened to NCs lay low for a couple o' months and reclaim space -tactic? :emo:
i thought it was designed for a situation like this

its only been a week ...

Rudolf Miller
June 9 2011, 03:34:13 PM
[quote="antoine lefevre":ney1y4uo]What happened to NCs lay low for a couple o' months and reclaim space -tactic? :emo:
i thought it was designed for a situation like this

its only been a week ...[/quote:ney1y4uo]

NOT ONE INCH

....ohshit.. i missed it didn't i

stormyfs-shitpoastin
June 9 2011, 04:24:45 PM
Tribute was less of a fortress, and more of a sandcastle built at low tide.

tekai
June 10 2011, 12:12:34 AM
genstab the NC FC was closed 11min ago and is archived here:
http://www.eve-razor.com/forum/index.php?action=genstab

Helen
June 10 2011, 06:46:26 AM
genstab the NC FC was closed 11min ago and is archived here:
http://www.eve-razor.com/forum/index.php?action=genstab

A complete archive of genstab going back to day one. Interesting.

Sponk
June 10 2011, 07:07:27 AM
[00:20:01] <rawr-4s-hinata> how much is 60b in $?
[00:20:15] 7-drk-antonivs joins the room
[00:20:18] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> depends
[00:20:23] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> if I give you friendly ratwe
[00:20:25] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> rate
[00:20:26] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> not much
[00:20:30] <rawr-4s-hinata> lol
[00:20:52] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> good old times when I was selling isk 40€ per bill
[00:20:59] <7-drk-antonivs> well 8/120 made it thru the lag at the gate
[00:21:01] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> now if I get 20€ I am happy
Log starts here (http://www.eve-razor.com/forum/index.php?action=genstab&view=2011-02-15#00:20:01)

Armyofme
June 10 2011, 07:17:01 AM
[00:20:01] <rawr-4s-hinata> how much is 60b in $?
[00:20:15] 7-drk-antonivs joins the room
[00:20:18] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> depends
[00:20:23] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> if I give you friendly ratwe
[00:20:25] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> rate
[00:20:26] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> not much
[00:20:30] <rawr-4s-hinata> lol
[00:20:52] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> good old times when I was selling isk 40€ per bill
[00:20:59] <7-drk-antonivs> well 8/120 made it thru the lag at the gate
[00:21:01] <rawr-4s-vuk-lau> now if I get 20€ I am happy
Log starts here (http://www.eve-razor.com/forum/index.php?action=genstab&view=2011-02-15#00:20:01)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EI_UnJy0snU/S9iLUPauJGI/AAAAAAAABjo/3zyYVMNJbSU/s1600/busted.jpg

filingo
June 10 2011, 08:39:06 AM
[01:08:39] <cei-sinsation> it is far from the end of EVE
[01:08:42] <tnt-aareya> (sorry, wrong window had focus) Sometimes losing space is just what is needed to have more fun.
[01:08:47] <condi-gewns-vile-rat> taking space is the fun part anyways
[01:08:51] <cei-sinsation> an alliance is still an alliance no matter what station it undocks from

:derper:

Wensley
June 10 2011, 09:31:40 AM
So things in the north have deteriorated into a sov grind with no resistance and just chat logs for entertainment?

Helen
June 10 2011, 10:55:37 AM
So things in the north have deteriorated into a sov grind with no resistance and just chat logs for entertainment?

Well there is the occasional Co2 gang roaming in Venal.

Really nothing much happening unless you look at Pure Blind where the residents/goons etc have tried to purge ev0ke pos sitting on those tech moons.

Sponk
June 10 2011, 10:55:58 AM
~Didn't want Tribute anyway~

Lallante
June 10 2011, 11:25:05 AM
Can someone from NC explain to me why you would put up with one of your main leaders openly RMTing alliance assets for so long?

Traxio Nacho
June 10 2011, 11:34:20 AM
Vuk would have to be pretty fucking stupid to actually be gloating to selling isk in a jabber channel if he really was doing it, then again.........

Mynas seems to be getting his digs in on those CAOD threads :D

Helen
June 10 2011, 11:35:13 AM
You all realise of course that some of those logs could of been made up to troll those who "want to believe".

Traxio Nacho
June 10 2011, 11:38:54 AM
^^

I read that as him taking the piss more than being a official confession to RMTing.

Rudolf Miller
June 10 2011, 12:50:08 PM
^^

I read that as him taking the piss more than being a official confession to RMTing.

i don't know. the remorse over the dropping price of isk is something i'd be sad and want to express my emotions about to people i could openly trust with such illegal information.

not saying he's guilty or innocent.. just saying.

awaiting next pl hack fest to gain even more delicious pr0n

antoine lefevre
June 10 2011, 01:43:05 PM
[quote="antoine lefevre":2r603dl9]What happened to NCs lay low for a couple o' months and reclaim space -tactic? :emo:
i thought it was designed for a situation like this

its only been a week ...[/quote:2r603dl9]
oh right, nc "disbanding" is of course a part of it. stupid me

smuggo
June 10 2011, 03:22:32 PM
Despite being a massive slav Vuk isn't an idiot.

Calling troll and fool on you trawling through 6 months of logs for this shit.

Lallante
June 10 2011, 03:40:13 PM
^^

I read that as him taking the piss more than being a official confession to RMTing.


Google confirms his price comments to be accurate


EDIT: Massive lol on people claiming that people released 5.9999 months of real logs just so they could insert 0.0001 worth of fake logs to mildly incriminate Vuk. If you genuinely believe that, did you know Obama is a Muslim member of the illuminati born in Kenya and shot JFK and Martin Luther King?

Rans
June 10 2011, 04:35:55 PM
Even if he RMT'd ISK? What's the big deal? What does it change?

smuggo
June 10 2011, 04:40:06 PM
^^

I read that as him taking the piss more than being a official confession to RMTing.


Google confirms his price comments to be accurate


EDIT: Massive lol on people claiming that people released 5.9999 months of real logs just so they could insert 0.0001 worth of fake logs to mildly incriminate Vuk. If you genuinely believe that, did you know Obama is a Muslim member of the illuminati born in Kenya and shot JFK and Martin Luther King?

Also, Obama's Grandfather was tortured by the British.

P sure that Vuk wouldn't expose his RMT op to a fellow corp member over Jabber.

You guys are literally terrible troll bait.

Rudolf Miller
June 10 2011, 04:49:33 PM
[quote="Traxio Nacho":puymplqd]^^

I read that as him taking the piss more than being a official confession to RMTing.


Google confirms his price comments to be accurate


EDIT: Massive lol on people claiming that people released 5.9999 months of real logs just so they could insert 0.0001 worth of fake logs to mildly incriminate Vuk. If you genuinely believe that, did you know Obama is a Muslim member of the illuminati born in Kenya and shot JFK and Martin Luther King?

Also, Obama's Grandfather was tortured by the British.

P sure that Vuk wouldn't expose his RMT op to a fellow corp member over Jabber.

You guys are literally terrible troll bait.[/quote:puymplqd]

i've seen more stupid things to believe its true.

Helen
June 10 2011, 04:57:56 PM
Either way Vuk wins tbh.

Jester
June 10 2011, 05:01:54 PM
Either way Vuk wins tbh.
This. Either:
1) he RMTed tech moon goo for months, got away with it, enraged a lot of jealous spaceship nerds, but won't be doing it any more; or,
2) he didn't RMT tech moon goo for months, enraged a lot of spaceship nerds, but won't be doing it any more.

Either way, enraged spaceship nerds, and he won't be doing it any more. And either way, cba to care.

Traxio Nacho
June 10 2011, 05:04:41 PM
[quote="Traxio Nacho":2m4wlfi4]^^

I read that as him taking the piss more than being a official confession to RMTing.


Google confirms his price comments to be accurate


EDIT: Massive lol on people claiming that people released 5.9999 months of real logs just so they could insert 0.0001 worth of fake logs to mildly incriminate Vuk. If you genuinely believe that, did you know Obama is a Muslim member of the illuminati born in Kenya and shot JFK and Martin Luther King?

Also, Obama's Grandfather was tortured by the British.

P sure that Vuk wouldn't expose his RMT op to a fellow corp member over Jabber.

You guys are literally terrible troll bait.[/quote:2m4wlfi4]

Well wasn't just corp was the whole of the NC FC/Spy channel so would be even more dumb.

Doesn't almost everyone know how much 1bil cost?

Nobody_Holme
June 10 2011, 06:43:15 PM
[spoiler:29jsza1g][/spoiler:29jsza1g]

[quote=Lallante][quote="Traxio Nacho":29jsza1g]^^

I read that as him taking the piss more than being a official confession to RMTing.


Google confirms his price comments to be accurate


EDIT: Massive lol on people claiming that people released 5.9999 months of real logs just so they could insert 0.0001 worth of fake logs to mildly incriminate Vuk. If you genuinely believe that, did you know Obama is a Muslim member of the illuminati born in Kenya and shot JFK and Martin Luther King?

Also, Obama's Grandfather was tortured by the British.

P sure that Vuk wouldn't expose his RMT op to a fellow corp member over Jabber.

You guys are literally terrible troll bait.[/quote:29jsza1g]

Well wasn't just corp was the whole of the NC FC/Spy channel so would be even more dumb.

Doesn't almost everyone know how much 1bil cost?[/quote:29jsza1g]

Didnt until googled in response to this thread crew, checking in? :tumbleweed:

Lithia Tsanov
June 10 2011, 07:00:04 PM
Worried about MM. I've even offered to assist, but was declined. I hope they have a plan which involves booting the mouth-breathing retard of an FC linked in the audio recording on the first page. Someone please pod me if I ever address my team on comms with that shitty of an attitude. I'm pretty certain that NPC space will end them. I hope that they prove me wrong.

Garst Tyrell
June 10 2011, 08:01:23 PM
[01:08:39] <cei-sinsation> it is far from the end of EVE
[01:08:42] <tnt-aareya> (sorry, wrong window had focus) Sometimes losing space is just what is needed to have more fun.
[01:08:47] <condi-gewns-vile-rat> taking space is the fun part anyways
[01:08:51] <cei-sinsation> an alliance is still an alliance no matter what station it undocks from

:derper:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Majesta_Empire

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/R.A.G.E

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/DEM0N_HUNTERS

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Cold_Steel_Alliance

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Sev3rance

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Unit ... t_Alliance (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/United_Front_Alliance)

Rudolf Miller
June 10 2011, 08:06:54 PM
holy fuck UFA was a 4000 member pet O.o

Marlona Sky
June 10 2011, 08:19:38 PM
Vuk Lau RMTing his face off non-shocker.

Al Simmons
June 10 2011, 09:45:49 PM
Vuk Lau RMTing his face off non-shocker.

Yeah. :tinfoil: usually has some actual basis to it, like most rumours. Hope they ban that smug chinky twat.

Rudolf Miller
June 10 2011, 10:03:25 PM
[quote="Marlona Sky":8y89tqqt]Vuk Lau RMTing his face off non-shocker.

Yeah. :tinfoil: usually has some actual basis to it, like most rumours. Hope they ban that smug serb twat.[/quote:8y89tqqt]

fify

Al Simmons
June 10 2011, 10:48:35 PM
He definitely looks like a squiggly in the videos and stuff from the CSM summits.

filingo
June 11 2011, 08:45:12 AM
He definitely looks like a squiggly in the videos and stuff from the CSM summits.

:facepalm:

Marlona Sky
June 11 2011, 10:12:31 AM
So,... should this thread be closed now that the fortress has been burned to the ground and all the RMTers.. apologies, the brave defenders of the High Councils activities scattered to the four winds?

Or would that still be premature?

Sacul
June 11 2011, 11:26:34 AM
hahahahhahahhahahhahahahhahaha i hope somebody is botteling the salty tears!!!! I want to buy some when i get back .....ow wait i have no more chars left :(

Fara
June 11 2011, 12:12:44 PM
So,... should this thread be closed now that the fortress has been burned to the ground and all the RMTers.. apologies, the brave defenders of the High Councils activities scattered to the four winds?

Or would that still be premature?

actually we should start a new thread now that its over.

I agree.

Garst Tyrell
July 31 2011, 04:03:59 AM
Roughly 50man Merciless hellcat fleet vs 135+ goon gank dps fleet (couple logi and a bit of tackle but about 100+ gank bcs if not more)

A large roaming deklein fed blob that had hovered around 90-170 throughout the night had been busy running around raiden and irc space not getting any fights, which isnt surprising because only faggots roam around in 150 man fleets expecting fights (esp since they never did this when pl/ncdot/wn/evoke was active up here and might actually be able to match their numbers ); and only trolls roam around in 150 man arty hurricane fleets expecting fights. Goons have had 80-100+ roaming gangs hunting carebears in venal daily now so its not too shocking once you factor in the weekend warrior bloat in fleet. I cant really rat on goons too hard tho, I mean we did jump into them :)

Interestingly enough despite scouting one of our moons coming out of RF and assuming that someone might show up to fight over it, they ran over to irc space to do a blob log on trap on the edge of tenal that I dont think actually killed anything. After saving our two poses uneventfully, a seemingly diminished and strung out goon fleet was spotted burning home full speed 2j under where we were saving our last pos for the first round.

Since RDN pussied out I attempted to get us a nice dangerous fight with goons on the way home by catching their blob in a sling bubble with a hic + titan bridge surprise buttsex. However this failed from the start when our scouts failed to give quick enough intel to give our hictor time to bubble up as the blob jumped in and local and warped to him. As such he was tackled 50 off gate with the blob landing at 0. As he was about to die anyway I had him light his cyno and we bridged in to save him, and much to my initial delight (and eventual horror) the deklein blob turned off the gate and was COMING RIGHT AT US™

We anchored up and started our first and later 2-3 triage carriers going while working our way through the seemingly endless hurricanes. We later found out that with a 'bring whatever you want fleet', roughly half of the canes were actually AC canes with dual neuts which broke the cap stability of our triage carriers while the alpha/DPS that did them in in under a minute each. While we primaried the hurricanes and struggled at first with our dps due to ecm drone spam, they were busy working their way through our guardians and then the triage carriers. We finally found our rhythm and dps started to apply but by then we were out of logi and had to bail. Trapped 30km+ bit off gate towards the cyno, I ordered overheated mwding to the gate and jumping on contact hoping their guys would be too busy with aggroe and unable to jump and tackle us since we were dead on grid anyway. A handful of us made it out and safed up. Despite having 135 in fleet they had no probers so after a few mins of camping they gave up on us and we slunk back to our newly saved pos to get bridged home and stand down for the first round of our long sunday.

In hindsight it seems we were much more outnumbered than I previously thought, especially in dps. We actually struggled to apply dps which pissed me off in the beginning (why were shield canes with minimal ehp and like 3 scimis tanking 20-30 hellcats up close for so long?), but it looks like we had serious issues with ecm drone spam and possible ecm from ships farther off from us. If you look at the kills we had maybe 10-15 on each killmail while they were able to apply full blob dps to everything, melting our guardians and subcaps instantly, and carriers in under a minute.

We had no kills in the last part of the rout because I ordered a deaggroe as we burned to get so we could jump ASAP and GTFO, sadly we lost a lot of tackled people off gate who never had a chance to make it back and jump.

Conclusion

This was a deceptively vulnerable fleet when we first engaged. I saw their fleet as strung out with much reduced numbers running home full speed in a lemming fleet which is the only reason I felt remotely comfortable engaging this alpha blob, but I failed to anticipate that while they might be strung out, the size of the engagement meant that the stragglers could catch up and join in. The failed hictor trap also gave them plenty of time to react as were loading grid, time that I had planned to surprise them with but instead surprised us. We fought a losing battle as every time we killed a hurricane a straggler replaced its dps on us and our own outgoing dps was cut down by hurricane ecm drones. The overview had grown by the end of the battle, not shrunk in size.

Their sheer dps + massive spread neuts/ecm drones did us in; our tanks were not up to the challenge even with 10 guardians and 3 triage carriers giving it their all. I suppose we could have tried to keep range but at the time we thought they were all arty ships and they were faster than us anyway. Triage carriers melted near instantly (sub 1 min each), everything else damn near instapopped. We cycled triage cycles but to no avail.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10274235
We killed way more than its showing but the merciless br is shit compared to this one in terms of mixed up people on sides making it unreadable. Maybe itll api pull more later vOv

=====

Posting this not because we heroically beat the odds or killed a dozen supers, but because it feels good to be back fcing a Merciless only fleet of a decent size again. Im proud that after our post nc-war low we are coming back stronger than ever, and im hoping that in the future we can get back to breaking 100+ for our biggest fights and keep hitting over our weight class

Garst Tyrell
July 31 2011, 02:39:23 PM
Instead of going south with everyone else or fighting alliances their own size, RDN has been reinforcing OVRHT highends in Venal this week. Multiple reasons have been given, including something about provoking "gfs" and disbanding us back to empire when our tech dies, but we all know its about them wanting to jew more isk for sanctum nyxes. A scary screenshot of their supercap fleet was even posted on one of our Hungarian corp's forums as a threat of THINGS TO CUM before we disband back to empire. God dammit we hate empire but love tech so this is a no-win situation for us!

With our backs to the empire wall and our very 0.0 livelihood apparently tied to the health of our highends, we stoically formed an au tz AHAC fleet to defend our last two timers of the day (3 pos saves and 1 fun welp to goons earlier that night).

Raiden jumps into ek2 with about 15 dreads to start the tower and we pounce on them with our roughly 50man AHAC gang including support. Immediately a cyno pops and the RDN support comes in with a similar number of abaddons/t3 and a triage archon; brawl ensues. Our numbers are too low to fight through the triage reps although we do have limited success changing targets quicker than the archon can react while losing a few ships to the abaddons. The archon FINALLY caps out 10-20min in and we burn him down and get to start killing abaddons like we should have been all along, melting them quickly.

At this turning point in the battle our bubblers have done a marvelous job keeping the dreads on the field, but tbh it feels like they were never given the order to warp off/jump out/log anyway as they just sat there and tried to shoot the ahacs. We attempt to start to clear the field but alas GFs are not to be and a new RDN cyno opens to blob us with titan doomsdays and supers as expected. The new triage carrier is popped and we fight out from under the supers for another 10 min, killing the majority of their subcaps while racing against the next round of doomsdays. We break contact suffering almost 100% logi casualties and warp to the star where our inities have held a brilliant naglfar using the star at 0 as a warp out. We try to get bubbles in the way of their warpin to prevent their capital reps from landing in range however with no dictors left and our hictor too close, we fail and suffice to kill a few more abaddons before being forced to flee the star and system. The POS is replaced by RDN with a medium tower :v

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=10276599
http://www.merciless-alliance.com/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=27442 (dirtier br, more accurate count of kills)

At this point we bridge home and reship once again to new ahacs to try to save our last tower of the night. RDN has steadily grown in numbers with the eu weekend warriors logging on, and move on the last pos. Having a rough idea their new fleet sizes and a plan in mind we once again bridge onto the dreads shooting our tower. Sadly the supercap spam entered from the first moment of this fight this time at 0 rather that a ping as hoped. Either I failed at absorbing the intel or the scouts failed at reporting accurately, but we had to immediately bail with no kills but a fair number of losses when we fought a fleet roughly double in capability/supers of what we had optimistically expected to give a GF. As the doomsday effects turn off and the pos instadies, we break contact and burn home, one step closer to retreating to empire. As the ashes settle we hunker down in k3 and begin pouring over dotlan for a new lowsec station to live in (and it better have fucking level 5 mission access)

3 pos saved so far, 2 lost. No br to link for the second welp, was just a bunch of merciless losses to supers so nothing interesting there :(((

Miraculously I wasnt doomsdayed so im going to keep posting until im important enough to be instakilled every hotdrop again dammit

Leviathan
July 31 2011, 08:35:43 PM
GF merci.. raiden like GF's as much as the goons and russians.

Garst Tyrell
July 31 2011, 09:28:16 PM
GF merci.. raiden like GF's as much as the goons and russians.

(1)(0) Aeon (Supercarrier)
(10)(0) Nyx (Supercarrier)
(3)(0) Avatar (Titan)
(4)(0) Erebus (Titan)

for a 40 man fight? drop the GF act and just admit you're here to jew tech. Stop treating the fhc community like morons

Liptonez
August 1 2011, 03:40:28 AM
I don't really see how running around in a 40 man abaddon fleet with triage support is "looking for GFs" either.

But that Ahac welp is a damn shame.

Badboy K
August 1 2011, 09:22:11 AM
(1)(0) Aeon (Supercarrier)
(10)(0) Nyx (Supercarrier)
(3)(0) Avatar (Titan)
(4)(0) Erebus (Titan)

for a 40 man fight? drop the GF act and just admit you're here to jew tech. Stop treating the fhc community like morons


dude, go back to 2004 and fight with t1 cruisers ...for GF's...

Garst Tyrell
August 1 2011, 11:14:33 AM
I don't really see how running around in a 40 man abaddon fleet with triage support is "looking for GFs" either.

But that Ahac welp is a damn shame.

funny story about that, if you mean the one from this week we engaged a 135 man goon bc gang. pretty sure fighting 135v40 is the definition of good fights for people looking to do something other than gank ravens or camp a nullsec entrance gate

Calgus
August 1 2011, 11:27:25 AM
Can see where he is coming from though, the willingness to drop supercaps shows that the fight was purely about achieving objectives i.e. dat der tech goo rather than actually seeking out challenging but rewarding fight on terms which the opponent can engage.

Leviathan
August 1 2011, 03:34:50 PM
Garst Im ex merci, commending your fighting you bollocks. You're sig seems fitting of your forum style.

gf

Badboy K
August 1 2011, 04:30:49 PM
http://kb.raidenalliance.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=27482

what happened here? can't check jabber, i'm off at work....

ry ry
August 1 2011, 04:41:48 PM
we got caught at a midpoint by a roaming gang, whilst evacing to empire :(

Garst Tyrell
August 1 2011, 04:45:06 PM
http://kb.raidenalliance.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=27482

what happened here? can't check jabber, i'm off at work....

saved 4 tech moons before dt. One of our other senior fcs today was running the show and we decided to reinforce the s-1 tower that raiden killed off us yesterday (it was succesfully rf'd before the fight).

Sloppiness in from both the FC and sloppiness in piloting from the dreads themselves kept us on the field longer than we should have been to finish the tower. For starters our e-cyno disaappared and another wasnt prepped until the hotdrop had already happened. The dreads themselves were confused with the cycle timers and frankly im not happy looking at some of our fits and seeing that lemmings cant even copy and paste an alliance fit after being told to a million times. Basically after a hour+ of pos repping and downtime people were taking it casually and only when a manticore popped out of shields and cynoed in the first wave of nyxes did I take over and try to turn this into an attempt to maybe gank a rdn super since they had only about a dozen caps there at first.

After struggling initially with the e-cyno and a fail bubble most the dreads made it out while our battleship fleet killed some carriers (nidhoggur made it into shields in low hull, I thought he popped at the time for some reason) and bumped a nyx way off the RDN pos shields. Before we could genuinely take advantage of that, a second wave of nyxes came in + titans, which as usual ended the fight before it could really become epic and memorable for either side. Supercaps online is a go

Garst Tyrell
August 1 2011, 06:46:49 PM
rising to meet the Merciless threat and endeavoring always for the good fights, at this moment -rdn- has roughly 35 dreads, 10 titans, 30 mommies and (in a rare first for them) an actual support fleet of 60 abaddons out rage reinforcing OVRHT venal towers again. If you bring enough dreads im sure youll reinforce the tower so quick the stront will burn up and itll be timed for your prime this round...right?

Helen
August 2 2011, 07:49:15 AM
Garst you really need to dial back the bitter in your posts man.
You can't go blaming anyone for using supers as super cap ability has been the defining advantage in EvE 0.0 warfare for the last few years.

If you want "good fights then play on sisi or the AT" if you want to play at 0.0 sov/moon warfare then you need to be packing supers.

Cassius Longinus
August 2 2011, 12:45:01 PM
I'd say come to Syndicate for some gf's, but I can't fight those hellcat fleets, so enjoy sov wafare. :)

As an alternative, hop in some BC's announce your CTA in the syndicate thread, and SOMEONE will try to fight you, though most players roll 20 tops down here.

ry ry
August 2 2011, 01:02:31 PM
Syndicate is our backup plan when we get kicked out of empire.

Smuggo
August 2 2011, 01:08:23 PM
Syndicate is fucking rubbish.

pBump
August 2 2011, 01:10:06 PM
You take that back!

ry ry
August 2 2011, 01:26:41 PM
Syndicate is fucking rubbish.

Syndicate 09/04/11 - ongoing
Started by Smuggo

self ownage.

Smuggo
August 2 2011, 01:28:23 PM
What can I say? I started a bad thread about a terrible region and for that I apologise.

dongbutte
August 2 2011, 02:06:11 PM
really it is dumb getting mad about supers especially when you bring the counter to their fleet (ahac vs bs)...

Grarr Dexx
August 2 2011, 02:40:32 PM
War & politics, not whining & buttmad.

Garst Tyrell
August 2 2011, 09:37:34 PM
no bitterness, every post has been as accurate and honest as I can make it. I just like to find the humor in life :)

Liptonez
August 2 2011, 09:47:30 PM
funny story about that, if you mean the one from this week we engaged a 135 man goon bc gang. pretty sure fighting 135v40 is the definition of good fights for people looking to do something other than gank ravens or camp a nullsec entrance gate

Funny story about that, Abaddons actually became famous for their ability to welp Drake blobs 3-4 times their size. Now you're talking canes, ships with half the tank. You even had triage cap support. Would you be willing to say you would have the balls to engage your very own 40 man Abaddon fleet with say 80 canes?

I also enjoy how you escalate fights with carrier support, but then start being bitter for someone reinforcing their fail fleet with even bigger guns.

BTW, there's gang warfare below the vicinity of 40. It's called small gang warfare, roaming, you can do it with less than 10 people, without camping a gate. You can even have GF's (say 10vs40+caps), then come out winning by killing one tackle ship, leaving, and bitching in local for blobbing. Other than that I don't know what's wrong with killing Ravens.

Also ctrl+s'ing my post this time, fuck you vB.

Edit: I would have done without buttmad, but I find my point reasonable and wanted to take the chance at replying.

Garst Tyrell
August 3 2011, 01:32:51 AM
Funny story about that, Abaddons actually became famous for their ability to welp Drake blobs 3-4 times their size. Now you're talking canes, ships with half the tank. You even had triage cap support. Would you be willing to say you would have the balls to engage your very own 40 man Abaddon fleet with say 80 canes?

I also enjoy how you escalate fights with carrier support, but then start being bitter for someone reinforcing their fail fleet with even bigger guns.

BTW, there's gang warfare below the vicinity of 40. It's called small gang warfare, roaming, you can do it with less than 10 people, without camping a gate. You can even have GF's (say 10vs40+caps), then come out winning by killing one tackle ship, leaving, and bitching in local for blobbing. Other than that I don't know what's wrong with killing Ravens.

Also ctrl+s'ing my post this time, fuck you vB.

Edit: I would have done without buttmad, but I find my point reasonable and wanted to take the chance at replying.

your point is reasonable but less than you think. 135 bc have significant dps as we found out first hand and raped a repping triage carrier in under a minute, three in a row. Abaddons arent going to tank that. In that circumstance do you really think it took much in the way of balls to fight 135v40? Arguing who has bigger balls is pretty the most boring and pointless debate in the history of eve

As for small gang warfare, you can find it on our killboard every day and spattered throughout my kb history so no reason to throw out hate. We embrace dangerous pvp in all forms. When we go out in 40 abaddons we dont look to go shit on 10 man gangs, we look for gangs bigger than us. Its proportional

Badboy K
August 15 2011, 07:25:17 PM
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Merciless./events

so what happened here Garst? 4 corps left?

bundus
August 15 2011, 07:37:13 PM
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Merciless./events

so what happened here Garst? 4 corps left?

wow lookit all dem corps jumping ship when it gets a bit murky? Good show.

Takon Orlani
August 15 2011, 08:20:52 PM
Aussie gonna aus

On the bright side: firesales and evacuating carriers!

Ralara
August 15 2011, 09:52:48 PM
No Mercy will survive, they're a good corp.

Takon Orlani
August 15 2011, 10:15:08 PM
No Mercy will survive, they're a good corp.

Oi. We ain't goin anywhere either.

ry ry
August 16 2011, 02:27:59 PM
The corps that left largely just didn't want to reset our ex-allies.

Some of them loved Vince, some of them hated Garst, some of them just really really liked running missions.

Garst Tyrell
August 16 2011, 08:29:41 PM
the usual round of people looking out for selfish interests and then saying one thing and doing another. The departures had nothing to do with raiden's attacks, whom although I was out for a couple weeks, im told stopped harassing us long before that.

In any case yes we are no longer a strong au tz alliance however nor are we failcascading or anything of the sort. We are moving forward positively and are still active and growing. On the plus side this has helped us to find out who really believed passionately in our vision of what we want to build in eve, and those who were just being FOTM. Learn from this experience and move on etc etc but in all seriousness we are scaling back our ambitions and resolving to never again get muddled in the same bloaty decline that has occurred in pretty much every 0.0 alliance, including ourselves for a short while before we put a stop to it and got back to our roots which precipitated this whole situation. Taking the hard road and actually living up to your word/ideals (in this case resets and not joining in the new nc mark 2) is always challenging and most people are not up to the task. Our reaffirmed goal is to find the people who are interested in challenging pvp and share passionately our vision of an alliance who are always working to improve ourselves without absorbing f1 lemmings/grunts/bloat.

What separates Merciless from any other 0.0 dedicated pvp alliance is hard to keep to a short tl;dr paragraph, but basically the alliance is formed to be an escape from the same pitfalls that other alliances have fallen into. We lost our way during a rushed and very action packed initial 6+ months of life that many alliances would spread over years, but never fear, we have learned from our mistakes and given time we will be coming back stronger than ever.