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Jack bubu
March 14 2013, 05:27:04 PM
https://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/planetary-conquest/


The paint has finished drying on the open beta release of DUST 514® and we are hard at work on the next build. Such is the norm of operating a “game as a service” here at CCP. We have been making free EVE Online® expansions for ten years and will continue that commitment to the EVE Universe by evolving DUST 514 with regular, massive updates.

Building upon DUST 514’s solid foundation of FPS and social game mechanics, our attention now turns to greater involvements of the planets of New Eden--specifically how cool it would be to have one of your own. In an update arriving later this year, we will allow the planets—or rather the many districts on each planet—to be conquered by DUST 514 player corporations. Controlling these districts will amass wealth for you and your allies and provoke conflict with your enemies.

Districts

The EVE Universe is immense, containing thousands of solar systems and tens of thousands of planets, all shared between EVE Online® and DUST 514. To help mercenaries interact with this expanse, we have completely redesigned the starmap and optimized it for the PlayStation®3 controller. The new map provides a high-level overview of planetary trade and conflict, and an interface for viewing and managing corporate assets.

Each temperate planet has between 5 and 24 districts. These serve as both the industrial backbone for your corporation, and the battlefields where you destroy anyone who interferes with your business.

The Genolution Corporation is responsible for clone sales in select low-security regions beyond faction warfare space, and will supply initial access to the planets. They will also provide your initial starting planetary deployment, and assist with expansion onto neighboring worlds.

Clones

The primary wartime commodity in DUST 514 is the military-grade clone. In order to gain a strong foothold and assert dominance in a region, you will need a steady supply of replacement bodies. Controlling a single district will generate clones over time. If you end up producing more than you need, the excess clones can be sold for profit.

Corporations can expand into nearby unoccupied territory to claim it. If you find the territory already occupied, simply resolve your disagreement the best way you know how: with big guns and armored vehicles.

Each district replenishes its clone supply at a pre-configured time chosen by the owner. However, this also makes the district vulnerable to attack for an hour each day. Battles are always scheduled during this window, meaning you won’t need mercs to be geared up and ready to deploy 24/7, and both sides get a day or so to prepare for the onslaught to come.

Infrastructure

You can upgrade each of your districts with one of three types of surface infrastructure. These massive installations will provide one of the following bonuses:

Cargo Hub: Provides a 50% bonus to clone storage
Production Facility: Provides a 50% bonus to clone production
Research Lab: Provides a 50% bonus to clone travel efficiency

Balancing these bonuses between districts will be an important strategic decision for corporation directors. Note that battles in a district are located around whatever upgrade you choose to build, so learning the strategies of defending and attacking each structure is crucial to victory.



Orbital Bombardment

EVE Online pilots in your corporation or alliance will be able to provide orbital support from above your districts, raining down fire on your targets in real time. Savvy player organizations may want to field a defense fleet to provide covering fire for troops on the ground and defend the space above from any enemy vessels. Note that friendly fire will be enabled for infantry weapons, vehicles, and orbital strikes, so precise target calling is important.

Prosperity awaits those who dare reach for it, but New Eden can be an unforgiving place. Alliances will form, wars will rage, and ultimately, you must rally an army and navy to defend your empire and decide your fate. With the right strategies and skills, your next shot can topple an empire or save your own.

Good hunting.

Wiki entry with more info

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest

Mike deVoid
March 14 2013, 05:55:08 PM
..later this year :(.

Jack bubu
March 14 2013, 05:55:14 PM
also massive Q/A in the thread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=617043&#post617043

Jack bubu
March 14 2013, 06:07:33 PM
..later this year :(.

from what i can see they need alot of eve side changes for this too, so i would guess this goes in parallel with the sommer expansion (aka may/june)

Mike deVoid
March 14 2013, 06:16:55 PM
Okay, I have read the devblog, the wiki and the devpost. It looks fairly good. A much better iteration what what we have currently. FW battles becoming tied to the systems being actively plexed is certainly an interesting choice, should promote simultaneous conflict and clutch defense/offense from both dust and eve.

Nu11u5
March 14 2013, 07:28:51 PM
There are a lot of "Not at this time" responses in the Q&A thread regarding feature requests and tweaks, leading me to believe that this new system is well into production and internal testing.

Jack bubu
March 14 2013, 07:34:13 PM
foxfour just crushed my plan on stockpiling the genolution clone packs, appearently you buy them as you attack, so after you own one district you cant buy them anymore..

also initial launch will be limited to 1 lowsec region

Rakshasa The Cat
March 14 2013, 07:39:57 PM
foxfour just crushed my plan on stockpiling the genolution clone packs, appearently you buy them as you attack, so after you own one district you cant buy them anymore..

also initial launch will be limited to 1 lowsec region

It does however mean you can buy clones every day attacking a district until you take one over.

And the 300 (or 450) clone limit per district means corps can't dig themselves in too deeply. When considering this it seems rather well thought out.

Jack bubu
March 14 2013, 08:11:00 PM
foxfour just crushed my plan on stockpiling the genolution clone packs, appearently you buy them as you attack, so after you own one district you cant buy them anymore..

also initial launch will be limited to 1 lowsec region

It does however mean you can buy clones every day attacking a district until you take one over.

And the 300 (or 450) clone limit per district means corps can't dig themselves in too deeply. When considering this it seems rather well thought out.

idk, a 450 clone limit means you can survive 5 reinforcement cycles, thats quite alot.

Resi
March 14 2013, 08:15:25 PM
Looks good, but I hope the districts produce more than just clones soon after or with the next build.

Nu11u5
March 14 2013, 08:22:45 PM
How many SI's can be assigned to a single district? Just one? Three with one of each? Any combination of X?

Nvm. It sounds like districts will be pre-assigned a single SI which will not be changeable, but then why are they given prices to purchase on the wiki?

Also, if the Defenders never spawn in won't the Attackers never be able to take the district? What is in place that will prevent that, other than expecting the Defenders to defend their e-honor?

I really need to read that whole thing before presenting questions.

Loser always loses 100 clones, minimum.

Loire
March 14 2013, 11:28:42 PM
Wasn't this devblog supposed to be 17,000 words?

Mike deVoid
March 14 2013, 11:41:32 PM
He said the wiki article was going to be 17,000 words. But then he re-wrote it yesterday evening and it came out at 8,000 words.

Mike deVoid
March 14 2013, 11:42:35 PM
Seeing how you do not continue travel costs above 7 jumps am i correct to guess that the initial launch will be limited to 1 low sec region ? (would also fit the 250 districts)


Correct.

Mike deVoid
March 15 2013, 12:25:37 AM
Confirmation that all the stuff in the recent devblog is coming in the very next build?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=617329#post617329


Also, this will be the next major build. We just havn't announced when that will be yet.

Nu11u5
March 15 2013, 01:47:24 AM
They also said re: the next build "look for an announcement at Fanfest"....

Mike deVoid
March 15 2013, 01:55:31 AM
Ah right.

Found it: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=617404#post617404


Yea, from what I understand we said [a new build every] 3 to 6 months. Not going to lie, Fanfest is a really good bet for us announcing things. Just saying.

Mike deVoid
March 15 2013, 01:58:48 AM
Seeing how you do not continue travel costs above 7 jumps am i correct to guess that the initial launch will be limited to 1 low sec region ? (would also fit the 250 districts)


Correct.

Also from that thread:



Quick pivot reveals the following systems with the conditions (not FW system, in lowsec, has temperate planet, has Genolution Station):

Aridia (Naga, Sakht, Tisot)
Genesis (Toon, Zarer)
Lonetrek (Iitanmadan, Nannaras)
Metropolis (Gebuladi)
Placid (Grispire)
Tash-Murkon (Keshirou, Ordat, Rethan)
The Forge (Otsela)

Some systems have 2 planets. But, if these are the right conditions for seeded districts, most of these regions will be secluded from others (outside of 5 jumps away). So we may see 'continental domination-possibly, but unlikely universe wide since once you have a district you can't 'attack from nowhere'. Your initial location will have to be your beginning point...I assume?

Interestingly, Genolution stations were seeded in lowsec constellations near each other. There are quite a few in highsec as well.

::EDIT:: this is moot now that I read the part about it being one region. But it might be useful for speculation. Although I like the idea of there being different 'isolated continents' at first rather than a pangea of systems.

Actually, looking at Dotlan... I'm just about ready to put money on Aridia or Genesis.

Aridia is all lowsec with about 50 or so temperate planets in consecutive, non-FW lowsec.
Genesis has something like 40 temperate planets in consecutive, non-FW lowsec.

I'm hoping for Genesis, since Aridia is on the far side of Genesis for everyone except Amarr and Amarr-side nullsec peeps.

Mike deVoid
March 15 2013, 02:03:32 AM
You will be able to change the Surface Infrastructure of the district once you own it.



What is the point of telling us the cost of the SI (100 mil) if we cannot change the SI in the district once we own it?

You can.

Rakshasa The Cat
March 15 2013, 08:16:44 AM
On day one how many districts can corporation buy clones for? If money wasn't the limiting factor.

It seems that you can only advance after the initial purchase 1 district a day if they are unoccupied.?

You can only buy the initial deployment pack if your corporation does not already own districts. So 1 starting district per corp.

This is interesting... It would potentially give even a very small corp a chance to get in on the initial rush. Since it takes 3 days to get 100+ clones the large corps need to wait that many days to attack / capture the next district (unless they want to leave too few clones to fight with), and one could even have a chance of making a profit if one survives for 3 days.

And I can imagine the large corps are going to be going after each other to not let anyone get too big too fast.

So... What's the thoughts on trying to get some districts with much crying?

Edit: Also, how long until someone sells all the clones of a large corp?

Lallante
March 15 2013, 09:24:30 AM
The meta of this system will be fascinating, at least initially.

Presumably it will be best to take districts with production boost PI initially.

Sent from tapaderp

Nu11u5
March 15 2013, 01:27:36 PM
So... What's the thoughts on trying to get some districts with much crying?

We need enough members to put 16 online during the same 1 hour time slot, first.

Sponk
March 15 2013, 02:44:14 PM
I don't think it'll be hard to take a district on the first day. It will get pretty hectic after that, though.

Mike deVoid
March 15 2013, 02:48:09 PM
So... What's the thoughts on trying to get some districts with much crying?

We need enough members to put 16 online during the same 1 hour time slot, first.

Well, not all 16 need to be members of Much Crying, as a member can bring in the rest as squad lead. That said, I don't we have 16 people who play concurrently.

Sponk
March 19 2013, 04:12:08 AM
OK, so BLARGITY!

Now that we have that out of the way lets look at the state of things and where we are going to go with this.

Actually before I go on with this lets be clear, these changes have not been made yet, we are posting them here to have a discussion.

There has been a LOT of really good discussion in this thread and elsewhere about the Planetary Conquest gameplay feature. We cannot thank you enough for this. The feedback and discussion has been so helpful. Simply talking about this has helped us fix defects that would have slipped through the cracks and helped us make changes to provide a better experience for you guys when this goes live.

Of all the discussion some of the hottest topics have been the talk of "ringer corps" or using alts in alt corps to take districts on day one, the economics of playing this gameplay, and winning districts through "zerging" or just by having more numbers but less skill winning the game.

Based on all the discussion we are looking at making these changes to some of the numbers and would love to get your feedback on it. We are not set on any of this, we are still doing calculations (need to try and close exploits), but I wanted to get your feedback ASAP.

So without further rambling, NUMBERS AND STUFF!

Genolution clone package
We are looking at changing the number of clones offered by Genolution in its package from 100 to 200. This would also mean an increase in price from 20M ISK to 40M ISK.

Our view on the clone packages is that they should be something used to break into the game but not something that should be used for everyday battles. While their very existence means people will be able to use them, we want to discourage it from being used for things like district locking and such.

While ISK is never a good blocker, *cough* Titans *cough*, our objective here is looking further down the road. For launch this should hopefully mean less alt corporations trying to take districts or using clone packages from Genolution to speed up the filling of a district. More long term we also hope it means a bit less harassment through them.

Clone generation rate
An increase in base clone generation rate from 40 to 100 and a production facility bonused production rate of 150 instead of 60.

First this is because we already think this needs to be more profitable, but by increasing the clone generation rate instead of the clone value it means we put more clones into the system for you guys to fight with. More fights = more good times.

On top of the more money this helps counter the large organizations picking on the small organization and using numbers instead of skill to win. By giving the owners of a district more clones so long as they are able to win more battles than they lose they should be able to hold the district. The idea is that you should own a district because of skill, not numbers, or at least not just numbers.

Minimum clone loss
Increased to 150 from 100.

We are only slightly increasing this and we are doing so for two reasons, it means the winners of a battle get slightly more ISK and that hopefully we will see less instances of people giving up part way through the match. The main purpose of this minimum loss was so that even when a corporation knows that their chances of winning are low they can still go fight because they are going to lose these clones no matter what. We don't want them to just give up however when there is still a long way to go. So by increasing this we hopefully ensure seeing little to no giving up of a battle, at least not because people say "well we lost the minimum clones, lets stop losing clones and go home."

You will notice however that we only increased this by 50% where as we are increasing the clone generation rate by more than 100%.

Also increasing the minimum clone loss will help negate the prolonged grind of grinding down a district you are trying to take that bumping clone generation rate up will do.

Clone value
We are not currently going to be changing the value of the clones but I want to emphasis the fact that we can easily adjust this value once this goes live and will be keeping an eye on it once it is live.

Minimum clone move
We are not looking at changing this at this time.

Numbers in a simple list:
Genolution starter package clones: 100 -> 200
Genolution starter package ISK: 20M ISK -> 40M ISK
Clone generation rate: 40 -> 100
PF clone generation rate: 60 -> 150
Minimum clone loss: 100 -> 150
Clone sell value: No change
Minimum clone movement: No change

So, DISCUSSION TIME!

p.s. hahaha and you thought I would let this thread die...














So after much discussion internally we think we need some new new numbers. Before I go into this if you have not read my previous big post please check it out: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=627150#post627150

One of the things we realized with those numbers is that it was possible to lock out districts by attacking them with alt corps and MAKE money, not lose money. Woops. :D Glad we think these things through so clearly. :P

So some more changes

Original numbers:
Genolution starter package clones: 100
Genolution starter package ISK: 20M ISK
Clone generation rate: 40
PF clone generation rate: 60
Minimum clone loss: 100
Clone sell value: 100,000 ISK
Minimum clone movement: 100

Numbers proposed in previous post:
Genolution starter package clones: 200
Genolution starter package ISK: 40M ISK
Clone generation rate: 100
PF clone generation rate: 150
Minimum clone loss: 150
Clone sell value: No change
Minimum clone movement: No change

New numbers we are thinking about:
Genolution starter package clones: 200
Genolution starter package ISK: 40M ISK
Clone generation rate: 75
PF clone generation rate: 100
Minimum clone loss: 150
Clone sell value: No change
Minimum clone movement: 150

On top of that we want to bump the cost of moving:
Genolution base cost to move: 500,000 -> 3M ISK

Most of these changes are trying to find a balance between making this gameplay profitable, fun, balanced, and removing exploits. Keep the discussion going guys!

Mike deVoid
March 19 2013, 10:48:52 AM
I read those yesterday, but I think it's an attempt to balance the use of alt corps by cost only. I'm going to do a write up later tonight about what I see as the issues and some potential fixes for them.

Mike deVoid
March 20 2013, 02:12:23 AM
There are 3 uses for alt corps in Planetary Conquest (PC).

1) At the start to assist with the district 'gold rush' or 'land grab'
2) To provide a battle shield to allow your districts to generate clones in 'peace'.
3) To attack distant districts with a zero clone attrition



1) At the start to assist with the district 'gold rush or land grab

Because each corporation is only allowed to buy 1 pack of clones from Genolution, any corp which has the funds to buy more packs can easily circumvent this restriction by passing the funds to an alt corp. The alt corps function will grab additional districts on the target planet on day 1 for the purpose of holding them until they can be passes to the Main corp. The alt corp simply moves all clones out for an attack (or sells all clones) and the Main corp moves in immediately without a fight.

If the alt corp district gets attacked before the transfer occurs, ringers from the main corp will simple fill the battle just as if it owned the district all along.


2) To provide a battle shield to allow your districts to generate clones in 'peace'.

If you have only one district and it is underpopulated with clones then you can use an alt corp to launch an attack on your district. When the battle occurs, there is no real fighting and the attack fails. Net loss of launching the attack would currently be 40m - 200 * 50k = 40m - 10m = 30m. Essentially, you've ensured that the district generates 75 (or 100) clones for 30m. Expensive, but much better than risking a genuine attack where if you lose it costs you 150 clones and the isk to cover the equipment. Compared to a loss, your net gain is 225 (or 250) clone for 30m. This compares favourably to 200 clones for 40m from Genolution.

Notice how a reduction in the base district generation rate would actually INCREASE the need to protect yourself from attack using this method since you'll be vulnerable for longer (takes more days to get clones in the district up to a safe level).


3) To attack distant districts with a zero clone attrition

A corp that owns districts suffers clones survival losses when sending clones to attack. Survival rates are between 100% and 0% An alt corp with no districts suffers no losses. The district owning corp must also pay an isk cost on top for the privilege of a lossy service.

At alt corp will always deliver 200 clones to your target and your main corp can join the battle as ringers.

Your Main corp must send 200 or more to get 200 clones to arrive at the target districts. Even sending 200 leaves your home district under defended given the 150 minimum clone loss for losing a match.

Where clone survival rate is below 58% it is NEVER rational to use your main corp, since you should just sell the clones you intend to 'send' and use the isk to sent over a Genolution pack with zero losses (and for less effective isk spent).


Recommendations to CCP:

I can see that you've tried to create a PC setup where it is balanced within the game of being a participating corp with at least 1 district, with incentives to actually attack, And you have included on a method of allowing players to enter and re-enter the game, but excluded that mechanic from players after they start. However, you inevitably end up with perfectly rational decisions from corps to use alt corps to get the use of the special mechanic to 1) assist with land grabs, 2) to deny matches and 3) to work around the clunky 'simulation' of the danger of transporting clones.

From the adjustments comments you HAVE made though, it seems that a design goal for you is that the creation and use of alt corps should not be incentivised as a way to min-max the rules to your advantage.

Adjustments of the various numbers to attempt to rebalance to dis-incentivise each of these activities actually results in only merely raising the isk barrier for each of them. An attempt to balance by costs actually results in putting the strongest tactics in the hands of the rich only. And we should remind ourselves of Titans when thinking about balancing by cost ;).

A) I think you should allow any corp to buy from Genolution at any time. This would remove any incentive to use alt corps to do so instead, on the occasions that a Genolution pack in a better choice than using your current stockpile of clones. Let Genolution be a massive isk sink for Dust. This would solve issue 1 completely (which applies WHENEVER there is an empty district btw, not just at the start of PC) and contribute to solving issue 3. Don't introduce increasing costs for these packs as you'll end up undoing what you intend to solve.

B) A district under attack should generate clones at a reduced rate (say 50%). Defenders losing the battle still results in 0 clone generation for that day. This encourages corps not to use a dec shield as a way of protecting themselves from attack.

C) At the very least change clone survival to be 75% at the worst. At 75% the alt corp 200 Genolution clones would have to kill 156 clones to be equivalent to the standard MAIN corp sending clones (they'd have to send 267 clones btw to match 200 from Genolution). 150 clones is the minimum clone loss right now, so I expect the defenders to defend to that level at least. Above 75% survival and you'll use your Main Corp (unless you don't want to leave only 33 clones behind ;) ) and below that you should preferentially use an alt corp, depending on how many clones you think you will kill. Below 58% survival, it's always cheaper to use the alt corp. I can supply the maths for this calculation to you.

Saying that, if you allow any corp to buy Genolution clones at any time then you should probably make the survival rate to 100%. It's a rather inelegant way of what I presume is simulating the danger of eventual transportation of clones by eve players.

Sponk
March 20 2013, 04:49:54 AM
post link so I can liek dis ery tiem.

Resi
March 20 2013, 10:13:39 AM
post link so I can liek dis ery tiem.

Mike deVoid
March 20 2013, 11:45:23 AM
post link so I can liek dis ery tiem.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=631682&#post631682
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=631677

Mike deVoid
March 20 2013, 09:30:33 PM
If you've got comments you'd like to share, please join in.

Nu11u5
March 20 2013, 10:05:17 PM
Mirroring my contribution:


I've heard an idea of 'bidding' for attacks on territories brought up in various forms. What if there was a time window during which a corp could preempt the attack of another (in this case the battle-shielding alt-corp) by committing more clones than they have by a certain margin? With only 200 clones to compete with for an alt-corp with a Genolution pack, an established corp could move in with up to 300~450 clones and bypass the battle-shield.

This solution would possibly make it harder for a new corp to legitimately secure territory, since an established corp could always preempt their attack and not allow them to ever fight...
Alternatively, make it so that only attacks via Genolution packs can be preempted.


Added a blerb about preempting possibly leading to rapid escalation of forces between allied corps. Blobs suck, etc.

Jack bubu
March 29 2013, 01:52:59 PM
Update on Planetary Conquest
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66365


So I am going to try and use this section of the forums some more and start some more focused discussions with you guys, we shall see how it goes.

As some of you know I am working on a dev blog with some updates to Planetary Conquest. That is still a little ways out though as I want some more time to think about the numbers. In the mean time I am going to post this here which will also be in said dev blog. Want to start getting your ideas on it now.

From the previous design of Planetary Conquest as a defender if you won you would get 20% of the remaining clones that the attacker sent. We are changing the way this works and also expanding it to the attacker if they win. :D More reason to go out and attack. :D (more smiley faces? :P)

Previously the idea was that if the attacker sent 200 clones, lost 100 in the fighting, and as a defender you won you would get 20% of the remaining clones. In this example that would be 20 clones.

We are increasing that percentage to 50% but also making it so that this is 50% of the clones above and beyond the minimum 150 clones lost. Not immediately understandable, so let me give some examples:

In this example the attacker sends 200 clones, uses 100 clones in combat, and loses to the defender.

The attacker sends 200 clones.
The attacker loses 100 in combat.
50 more clones are destroyed to reach the 150 clone loss minimum.
50 clones remain.
25 clones are given to the defender.

Lets try another. In this example the attacker sends 150 clones, uses 100 clones in combat, and loses to the defender.

The attacker sends 150 clones.
The attacker loses 100 in combat.
50 more clones are destroyed to reach the 150 clone loss minimum.
0 clones remain.
0 clones are given to the defender.

Simple right? Or at least makes some sense? O_O With a solid understanding of how this works when the defender wins, lets take a look at what happens when the attacker wins:

Defender has 300 clones and a production facility (PF generates 100 clones a day).
Attacker attacks.
Attacker wins.
Attacker has 100 clones at the end of the battle.
Defender does not get 100 clones on their next reinforcement cycle.
Attacker gets 50% of the clones that would have been generated.
Attacker returns home with a total of 150 clones.

So, feedback, discuss, TELL ME THINGS! :D Keep in mind it is a long weekend here so I may not be around a whole lot until Tuesday.

Mike deVoid
March 29 2013, 07:22:42 PM
So there a a large number of people whose understanding and interpretation of PC is completely different to mine. Some even with my own corp. And I really don't understand their position. It goes something like this:


When you hold a district you earn 75/100 clones per day. At 100k per clones this translates to an income of 7.5m/10m per day. If you decide to attack another district you're forgoing these earnings and possibly give the enemy 50k per clone. So given this choice, it doesn't make sense to attack anyone and you'll just sit there with X number of districts attacking no one. Since this is the rational course of action, no attacks and hence no battles will take place.

Now, I completely don't understand this. I've tried telling them that sending clones to attack another district doesn't only result in an opportunity cost of 100k per clone, you're using them to try to conquer another district so that your 'earning power' increases. Despite me telling them that in RISK the only resource is more armies - and people still attack other territories - I don't seem to be able to change their opinion that there is zero incentive to attack. Despite me asking them "What is the point in holding 10 districts and earning 75m per day if you don't intend to spend it on battles?" I only get the response "That's exactly my point!".

I'm fucking lost. Do they have a point at all here, or are they completely retarded for being immune to counter evidence and argument?

Jack bubu
March 29 2013, 08:31:43 PM
you just figured out that the average console gamer is a fucking mongoloid ;)

Loire
March 29 2013, 08:52:57 PM
Your corp mates evolved the 0.0 level of thought rather quickly.

Nu11u5
March 29 2013, 09:08:20 PM
They actually have very rational thought processes, and would pass the game theory challenges like the "Prisoner's Dilemma" with flying colors. The problem is this isn't theoretical idealism.. it's a god damn war game!

Mike deVoid
March 29 2013, 10:08:57 PM
It's only rational in the sense of 'assume a perfectly spherical cow in a vacuum'. It's not a valid conclusion to reach when they are excluding data.

Mike deVoid
March 29 2013, 11:15:01 PM
confirmed retared:


<absolute_idiom>: well, i'm trying to show that it is rational to attack. which means it is rational to assume we will be attacked. and hence you cannot make your first assumption that we will NOT be attacked and that we have guarenteed profit
<rhirne_Naturi>: how is attacking rational when you lose ISK
<rhirne_Naturi>: that's what I'm trying to show you
<Nova>: you're a woman, rhirne_Naturi?
<absolute_idiom>: because on day 2 you are in profit again
<rhirne_Naturi>: but why waste the ISK, when day 1 can be profit?
<rhirne_Naturi>: and Nova..
<absolute_idiom>: because day 2 has even more profit if you attack, than if you do not
<rhirne_Naturi>: \but i dont care about day 2, i want day 1
<rhirne_Naturi>: is the average player thinking
<absolute_idiom>: is this your thinking, or the thinking of the 'average player'
<rhirne_Naturi>: you have to think both ways
<rhirne_Naturi>: i completely understand what you are saying, but you also have to think about the average player
<absolute_idiom>: rhirne, by the logic of each day must make sense on it's own, then you will never even take a single district
<absolute_idiom>: why pay 40m to take even an empty district with no fight?
<absolute_idiom>: at 7.5 mil per day it's 6 days before you are even again
<rhirne_Naturi>: because i don't have too.. all i have to do is own a district, and it makes me ISK.. no need to try and take another one
<rhirne_Naturi>: own a district and make isk.. there is no "negative" to deal with
<absolute_idiom>: i'm asking why would you take a first district? it costs you 40m isk to buy a clone pack from genolution
<absolute_idiom>: at 7.5 mil per day that district will take 6 days to pay you back
<rhirne_Naturi>: suppose I own a district and it cost me 6 mil a day for up keep, yet the district only paid 5, that would make me want to take other districts

Loire
March 29 2013, 11:32:03 PM
Abandon ship.

Sponk
March 29 2013, 11:52:40 PM
Get director role first.

Blah blah tapatalk

Mike deVoid
March 30 2013, 12:01:47 AM
Confirming I am a Director. This rhirne is some scrub who is clearly terrible at shooting as I have never heard of her, and has no idea about how to play any strategic game ever.

Rakshasa The Cat
March 30 2013, 10:18:13 AM
They actually have very rational thought processes, and would pass the game theory challenges like the "Prisoner's Dilemma" with flying colors. The problem is this isn't theoretical idealism.. it's a god damn war game!

Actually no, they wouldn't.

They've actually run computer simulations of the Prisoner's Dilemma with AI learning, and it turns out that if one actor is always passive then the other learns starts to screw the passive actor. If both actors have full freedom to act they start with lots of backstabbing and such, then eventually learn that screwing the other side is followed by retaliation thus both become passive. (0.0 today)

However this is a multi-actor Prisoner's Dilemma, and as such you just need one of them to invade to get the ball rolling.

Nu11u5
April 3 2013, 02:57:09 PM
Eve-side bonuses have been settled on.



I'll have to wait and see all the EVE side bonuses. Because, as of right now, there really is no incentive IMO to even hold districts. Its going to be more profitable to raid in militia gear.

We announced what they would be, just not the exact numbers, yesterday:

A bonus to the manufacturing time of POS around that planet.
A bonus to the fuel consumption of POS around that planet.
A bonus to PI output on that planet.

All of these bonuses will be alliance wide... we think... that is the current plan anyways.

This should make for an interesting boost to low-sec.. well, one region at least.

Mike deVoid
April 3 2013, 03:17:24 PM
How are the bonuses going to be good enough that it's worth throwing isk at taking and holding those districts? I know we can't transfer isk right now, but without that making economic sense the bonuses aren't all that appealing as far as I can tell. Take into account a planned tax on isk transfers and the economics become even more challenging.

Lallante
April 3 2013, 03:33:44 PM
When I first read this, written by Firefox on the dust forums, I had to re-read it about 10 times to believe it.

Apparantly there will be no trade function (not even direct player-player trade-window style trade) in the next build. We will have to wait 4 - 6 more months for this incredibly basic and essential function.

Jack bubu
April 3 2013, 03:37:18 PM
When I first read this, written by Firefox on the dust forums, I had to re-read it about 10 times to believe it.

Apparantly there will be no trade function (not even direct player-player trade-window style trade) in the next build. We will have to wait 4 - 6 more months for this incredibly basic and essential function.

quote on that? player to player trading has been announced by CCP for the next built quite often..

Mike deVoid
April 3 2013, 03:39:26 PM
Yeah, I heard it isn't in this next build either.

edit: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=667037#post667037



Trading NEEDS to be in Uprising.
Corp Armory would be nice as well
if not then all this loot would be pointless
ISK transfers between players or open market needed as well tbh that way ur idea we can actually sell off the loot

Unfortunately item trading will not be in Uprising. :(

Nu11u5
April 3 2013, 04:43:11 PM
Note, he did not say anything about corp armories, so hopefully we can see those.

But even then, I'm not entirely sure the delay of trading is correct. It was mentioned in at least one very recent interview.


Re planet bonus: I suppose the bonuses would have to be significant, at least 20% additional to POSs and PI. Isk won't be flowing - let alone taxed - for a while, so Dust corps will be on their own when it comes to funding campaigns to take planets. PI and POS bonuses at least sound more interesting than the ability to sell surplus clones, which is all that the Dust side is getting.

Lallante
April 3 2013, 05:21:46 PM
What is the point of loot if you are in proto gear - you cant sell it or get any value out of it or even give it to noobs, its pointless shit.

Similarly corps wont be able to provide equipment or vehicles to its members without shared hangars which are surely much more complex than mere trading and thus definitely wont be in.

Mike deVoid
April 3 2013, 08:00:01 PM
Trading is an important aspect of closing the economic loop (in the absence of selling to NPC orders) but I can totally see why making Planetary Conquest comes as a higher priority and it developed first. It makes the FPS into an MMO.

Though, of course, trading/secondary market of some kind will be required for full release IMO.

Rakshasa The Cat
April 3 2013, 08:07:19 PM
Though, of course, trading/secondary market of some kind will be required for full release IMO.

Just read a dev poast that countered the idea that the may build will be 'full release'.

Seems perhaps they'll be extending the beta for another build.

Nu11u5
April 5 2013, 01:41:55 PM
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/04/an-update-dev-blog-for-planetary-conquest/


Winner always gets 50% of enemy clones/production (both for Defender or Attacker)
Districts are locked after capturing, so they can't be reinforced after the fact
Genolution Packs are not limited to corps without districts, can be bought at any time
Each of the three SI types will also give a different alliance-wide bonus to PI and POS functions at that planet
Rebalanced with new numbers for everything



ATTRIBUTE NAME ORIGINAL NUMBERS NEW NUMBERS

Starter pack clones 100 clones 150 clones
Starter pack ISK 20M ISK 80M ISK
Clone generation rate 40 clones 80 clones
PF clone generation rate 60 clones 100 clones
Minimum clone loss 100 clones 150 clones
Clone sell value 100,000 ISK No change!
Biomass sell value 50,000 ISK 80,000 ISK
Minimum clone movement 100 clones 150 clones

Attrition Rate:

JUMPS ISK COST DEFAULT RATE RATE WITH SURFACE LAB

Same Planet 3,000,000 ISK 100% 100%
Same Solar System 3,500,000 ISK 95% 100%
One Jump 4,000,000 ISK 80% 95%
Two Jumps 4,500,000 ISK 65% 85%
Three Jumps 5,000,000 ISK 50% 75%
Four Jumps 5,500,000 ISK 35% 65%
Five Jumps 6,000,000 ISK 0% 55%
Six Jumps 6,500,000 ISK 0% 45%

Lallante
April 5 2013, 01:48:16 PM
There will be three EVE bonuses, one for each SI. The bonuses will be as follows:

•A bonus to the manufacturing time of POS around that planet.
•A bonus to the fuel consumption of POS around that planet.
•A bonus to PI output on that planet.


I'm yet to crunch the numbers but presumably this could be BIG in terms of ISK/time in systems filled with invention/t2 BPO production/reaction POSs/PI. How significant are POS fuel costs to those processes profits?

Lallante
April 5 2013, 02:03:23 PM
PS: All my ISK on Genesis being the first Dust PC region.

Its so fitting in so many ways:
- EXACTLY correct number of temperate planets to give ~250 districts. CCP have previously said "250 districts, roughly 5 per planet". There are EXACTLY 50 planets in lowsec Genesis. Cooincidence? bollocks.
- neutral sov (concord control it)
- central geographical location
- the fucking birthplace of eve, named fucking genesis. Could it be more fitting?
- genolution stations
- lowsec but not FW and not in the arse end of nowhere
- not tooo close to Jita

Yah I'm confident. Unless they have lied on some of the info released so far.

Mike deVoid
April 5 2013, 02:11:37 PM
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/04/an-update-dev-blog-for-planetary-conquest/


Winner always gets 50% of enemy clones/production (both for Defender or Attacker)
Districts are locked after capturing, so they can't be reinforced after the fact
Genolution Packs are not limited to corps without districts, can be bought at any time
Each of the three SI types will also give a different alliance-wide bonus to PI and POS functions at that planet
Rebalanced with new numbers for everything



ATTRIBUTE NAME ORIGINAL NUMBERS NEW NUMBERS

Starter pack clones 100 clones 150 clones
Starter pack ISK 20M ISK 80M ISK
Clone generation rate 40 clones 80 clones
PF clone generation rate 60 clones 100 clones
Minimum clone loss 100 clones 150 clones
Clone sell value 100,000 ISK No change!
Biomass sell value 50,000 ISK 80,000 ISK
Minimum clone movement 100 clones 150 clones

Attrition Rate:

JUMPS ISK COST DEFAULT RATE RATE WITH SURFACE LAB

Same Planet 3,000,000 ISK 100% 100%
Same Solar System 3,500,000 ISK 95% 100%
One Jump 4,000,000 ISK 80% 95%
Two Jumps 4,500,000 ISK 65% 85%
Three Jumps 5,000,000 ISK 50% 75%
Four Jumps 5,500,000 ISK 35% 65%
Five Jumps 6,000,000 ISK 0% 55%
Six Jumps 6,500,000 ISK 0% 45%

Well they got rid of the alt corp issue. And also got rid of the district grabbing loophole by having a 24hr lockdown of the district occur

Mike deVoid
April 5 2013, 02:13:11 PM
PS: All my ISK on Genesis being the first Dust PC region.

Its so fitting in so many ways:
- EXACTLY correct number of temperate planets to give ~250 districts. CCP have previously said "250 districts, roughly 5 per planet". There are EXACTLY 50 planets in lowsec Genesis. Cooincidence? bollocks.
- neutral sov (concord control it)
- central geographical location
- the fucking birthplace of eve, named fucking genesis. Could it be more fitting?
- genolution stations
- lowsec but not FW and not in the arse end of nowhere
- not tooo close to Jita

Yah I'm confident. Unless they have lied on some of the info released so far.

Actually they've said between 5-24 district per TEMPERATE planet. If Genesis has 50 planets, they aren't all temperate.

That said, I think it'll be Genesis too.

edit: even that doesn't appear to be right, if I'm reading dotlan correctly: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/Genesis/planets

Nu11u5
April 5 2013, 02:15:16 PM
There will be three EVE bonuses, one for each SI. The bonuses will be as follows:

•A bonus to the manufacturing time of POS around that planet.
•A bonus to the fuel consumption of POS around that planet.
•A bonus to PI output on that planet.


I'm yet to crunch the numbers but presumably this could be BIG in terms of ISK/time in systems filled with invention/t2 BPO production/reaction POSs/PI. How significant are POS fuel costs to those processes profits?

If the Eve bonuses are going to be mapped logically:

Storage SI -> POS manufacturing bonus
Clone Production SI -> PI output bonus
Lab SI -> POS fuel bonus

There has been zero mention of how strong the bonuses would be, but I would suspect between 15% and 33%.

Nu11u5
April 5 2013, 02:18:01 PM
And also got rid of the district grabbing loophole by having a 24hr lockdown of the district occur

You don't need to have an unlocked district to buy Genolution Packs. There will still be a land-grab, only this time you won't need alt-corps to do it, just a lot of ISK.

Lallante
April 5 2013, 02:18:05 PM
PS: All my ISK on Genesis being the first Dust PC region.

Its so fitting in so many ways:
- EXACTLY correct number of temperate planets to give ~250 districts. CCP have previously said "250 districts, roughly 5 per planet". There are EXACTLY 50 planets in lowsec Genesis. Cooincidence? bollocks.
- neutral sov (concord control it)
- central geographical location
- the fucking birthplace of eve, named fucking genesis. Could it be more fitting?
- genolution stations
- lowsec but not FW and not in the arse end of nowhere
- not tooo close to Jita

Yah I'm confident. Unless they have lied on some of the info released so far.

Actually they've said between 5-24 district per TEMPERATE planet. Genesis has 50 planets, but they aren't all temperate.

That said, I think it'll be Genesis too.

Wat?

Genesis has 400+ planets. It has 90+ temperate planets.

It has exactly 50 temperate planets in lowsec systems (half of genesis is highsec, including Yulai).

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Genesis#temperate

Mike deVoid
April 5 2013, 02:20:16 PM
And also got rid of the district grabbing loophole by having a 24hr lockdown of the district occur

You don't need to have an unlocked district to buy Genolution Packs. There will still be a land-grab, only this time you won't need alt-corps to do it, just a lot of ISK.

The loophole I'm referring to where you use 1 corp and 150 clones to take all 24 districts on a planet by sending 200 to the first, 199 to the second, etc. Sure most districts have 1 clones in, but they probably won't all be attacked.

Mike deVoid
April 5 2013, 02:21:53 PM
PS: All my ISK on Genesis being the first Dust PC region.

Its so fitting in so many ways:
- EXACTLY correct number of temperate planets to give ~250 districts. CCP have previously said "250 districts, roughly 5 per planet". There are EXACTLY 50 planets in lowsec Genesis. Cooincidence? bollocks.
- neutral sov (concord control it)
- central geographical location
- the fucking birthplace of eve, named fucking genesis. Could it be more fitting?
- genolution stations
- lowsec but not FW and not in the arse end of nowhere
- not tooo close to Jita

Yah I'm confident. Unless they have lied on some of the info released so far.

Actually they've said between 5-24 district per TEMPERATE planet. Genesis has 50 planets, but they aren't all temperate.

That said, I think it'll be Genesis too.

Wat?

Genesis has 400+ planets. It has 90+ temperate planets.

It has exactly 50 temperate planets in lowsec systems (half of genesis is highsec, including Yulai).

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Genesis#temperate

Ah, for some reason I didn't consider that a region might be a mix of highsec and lowsec. Derp.

Nu11u5
April 5 2013, 02:38:26 PM
Does anyone else think that 80M ISK for a 150 clone starter pack is a little extreme? Only really established Dust corps will be able to afford this.

Mike deVoid
April 5 2013, 02:59:56 PM
That cost comes to make it highly unoptimal for established corps to use the genulotion packs to attack or reinforce districts. It's not much per person to donate to the corp, for the corps and individuals interested in PC.

Jack bubu
April 5 2013, 03:27:07 PM
And also got rid of the district grabbing loophole by having a 24hr lockdown of the district occur

You don't need to have an unlocked district to buy Genolution Packs. There will still be a land-grab, only this time you won't need alt-corps to do it, just a lot of ISK.

The loophole I'm referring to where you use 1 corp and 150 clones to take all 24 districts on a planet by sending 200 to the first, 199 to the second, etc. Sure most districts have 1 clones in, but they probably won't all be attacked.

minimum amout of clones to be moved is still 150, so your loophole is nonexistant ;)

Mike deVoid
April 5 2013, 03:32:01 PM
Nope, I'd always be moving at least 150 each time. There are 2 reasons it won't work now though: you only get 150 clones from the merc pack (not the 200 discussed in the thread) and each district is locked for 24 hours when you take it so you are unable to immediately move clones out again.

Lallante
April 5 2013, 05:47:22 PM
How the bonuses stack (given its 1 SI per district, not per planet) will be particularly interesting.

Will a 24 district stack of bonuses create OP results?

Nu11u5
April 5 2013, 06:28:51 PM
How the bonuses stack (given its 1 SI per district, not per planet) will be particularly interesting.

Will a 24 district stack of bonuses create OP results?

It would have to be either each district does 1/N out of a maximum bonus, or just let planets with more districts (and more moons) be considered more valuable. The later would create a more varied landscape where both big and small groups could exist.

Somewhere there will be a planet with 24 districts and 15 moons, and every major alliance will want it.

Sponk
April 5 2013, 11:29:57 PM
someone should run an analysis on Genesis lowsec so they're prepared.

Nu11u5
April 6 2013, 07:25:53 PM
The 24hr lockdown following a takeover will prevent the conquering corp from changing the reinforcement timer, effectively allowing the previous owners to counterattack the district once during their own previously established schedule.

edit: additionally, this means that the conquering corp will get two cycles of clone generation before they can be attacked.

Nu11u5
April 8 2013, 02:42:10 AM
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=676722#post676722


A strategic map for Dust deployment in Molden Heath.

http://i.imgur.com/K9l1FyR.jpg

Lallante
April 8 2013, 11:00:35 AM
The chances of this (PC) being sufficiently balanced to not get hideously broken by emergent gameplay and metagaming within 2 - 4 weeks are low, but it will be interesting for sure!

Mike deVoid
April 8 2013, 12:40:16 PM
Actually, I've done an indepth analysis of the numbers (sorry, not going to share) and it works out pretty well. However, massive blue lists and the high barrier to entry (isk, player numbers/availability, and skill) might become a problem.

Lallante
April 8 2013, 12:45:50 PM
Actually, I've done an indepth analysis of the numbers (sorry, not going to share) and it works out pretty well. However, massive blue lists and the high barrier to entry (isk, player numbers/availability, and skill) might become a problem.

I think people underestimate how hard it is going to be for most corps to ensure they have enough people online at the right times.

Nu11u5
April 8 2013, 01:20:25 PM
Why would this be a "Tyrannis" level screw up? Because the secret was leaked or because Molden Heath is a terrible region to do it in?

[...]

The fun thing about districts, changing which region is active is awesome easy. Takes one line to make active or deactive a region. Great for testing.


I was not confirming or denying anything about if that is infact the region. If I wanted to really screw with you guys I would go around the test server changing the region and watching you map out random regions that are randomly seeded and will never make it onto TQ.... O_O Oh man BRB need to go talk to Nullabor...

Devs are trolls.

Lallante
April 8 2013, 02:17:51 PM
Still think its Molden

Rakshasa The Cat
April 9 2013, 06:48:10 AM
It's only a "Tyrannis" level screw up if I can earn another 300 billion off it.

Mike deVoid
May 10 2013, 06:48:13 PM
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/05/how-planetary-conquest-will-work-on-launch


TL;DR: While planning your planetary conquest launch strategies, add 24 hours to your times for the first battle.

Hey guys I hope you are all getting as excited for the launch of planetary conquest as we here at CCP are. I know lots of you are making plans when planetary conquest launches and I want to make sure you are all well informed as to how things will work.

Before we go into this much further I would like to point you guys to some previous pieces of information so that if you desire you can catch up on what is going on:

The original announcement dev blog: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/03/planetary-conquest/
An update about planetary conquest dev blog: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/04/an-update-dev-blog-for-planetary-conquest/
Fanfest presentation: http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/c/2208242
That should cover most the details for planetary conquest, and I will be answering questions in the comments thread of this post.

What I want to focus on is how the capturing of districts will work at launch and when you can expect the first battles to happen. Before we go into what is different about launch, lets quickly look at how things will work normally so we are all on the same page. Based on all the information provided so far you would expect the first day to go something like this:

DUST exits downtime at 14:00 on Tuesday May 14th. (I don’t actually know the time, I am just using this as an example)
At 14:01 on May 14th corporation A conquers a district with a reinforcement window of 16:00 to 17:00.
At 14:02 on May 14th corporation B attacks corporation A’s district.
At 16:00 on May 14th corporation A’s district generates clones.
At 16:00 on May 15th corporation A’s district generates clones.
A battle for the district occurs on Wednesday May 15th between 16:00 and 17:00.
To sum it up, corporation A’s district gets two cycles of clones and there is approximately 26 hours between the launch of corporation B’s attack and the battle happening.

On May 14th however all of the districts will be unoccupied. And districts without owners act a little differently. So, to help you with your planning this is how things will actually work:

DUST exits downtime at 14:00 on Tuesday May 14th. (Again, I cannot stress this enough, I don’t know when it actually will. This is just an example)
At 14:01 on May 14th corporation A takes an unoccupied district with a reinforcement window of 16:00 to 17:00.
At 14:02 on May 14th corporation B attacks corporation A’s district.
At 16:00 on May 14th we skip corporation A’s reinforcement window.
At 16:00 on May 15th the first reinforcement window for corporation A’s district happens and it generates clones.
At 16:00 on May 16th corporation A’s district generates clones for the second time.
A battle for the district occurs on Thursday May 16th between 16:00 and 17:00.
To sum this up, corporation A’s district still only gets 2 cycles of clone generation, but there are approximately 51 hours between the launch of corporation B’s attack and the battle happening.

The difference between the two is that when the district is unoccupied, or has no owner, when it is first taken the first reinforcement window does not happen and the first possible fight is delayed by 24 hours.

TL;DR: While planning your planetary conquest launch strategies, add 24 hours to your times for the first battle.

A small note about EVE bonuses

We will not be applying bonuses to EVE for ownership of districts until the May 16th. This gives us the ability to ensure the launch of planetary conquest goes as smooth as possible and filter out any noise that the EVE bonuses might have.

We had announced that there would be three bonuses in EVE, one for each surface infrastructure. The planetary interaction bonus for owning the production facility has been dropped. There are many reasons for this, the primary being that we didn’t feel it was a worthwhile bonus to provoke fights and didn’t have time to create a new one.

We are committed to making this an enjoyable and worthwhile experience for you all and hope that these changes and dev blog help with that. If you have any questions please ask away in the comments thread for this dev blog.

CCP FoxFour

Team True Grit

Sponk
May 15 2013, 10:24:41 AM
So apparently we're the only corp that controls an entire planet?

Blah blah tapatalk

Mike deVoid
May 15 2013, 12:07:15 PM
SVER True Blood in the NE.

Lallante
May 15 2013, 02:25:20 PM
Apparantly about 50% of districts are under attack at any given time

Mike deVoid
May 15 2013, 02:32:25 PM
Well, I think you mean "50% of districts are under attack so far" given the first battles will occur tomorrow (and some at very odd times for the owners - given the random distribution of reinforcement timers that was seeded as the initial state).

Jack bubu
May 15 2013, 03:04:11 PM
wow CRONOS sure is a huge blob of dust corps :S

Sponk
May 15 2013, 11:22:23 PM
http://i.imgur.com/lGsTrUl.jpg

vov

Mike deVoid
May 15 2013, 11:41:24 PM
I'm excited.

Naoru
May 16 2013, 12:03:16 AM
Ah, that list explains all the new randoms floating around Molden Heath. So far it's been fun brawling with the ROFL guys...but holy crap they love their recons and run at the slightest hint of trouble.

DaDutchDude
May 16 2013, 12:23:42 AM
One of the member corps of DarkStar Army actually attacked a district owned by The Unholy Legion of DarkStar, the largest corp in the alliance, only to claim not to know we were in the same alliance. No worries m8, we only make up 70% of the alliance. *lol*

Sponk
May 16 2013, 12:25:57 AM
One of the member corps of DarkStar Army actually attacked a district owned by The Unholy Legion of DarkStar, the largest corp in the alliance, only to claim not to know we were in the same alliance. No worries m8, we only make up 70% of the alliance. *lol*

We apparently have two districts under attack by other alliance members due to misclicks. Waste of 160M. Too bad for them.

Mike deVoid
May 16 2013, 12:57:15 AM
Ditto, expect we did the misclick. Overlaps if trying to take the empty districts apparently.

Lallante
May 16 2013, 09:42:51 AM
One of the member corps of DarkStar Army actually attacked a district owned by The Unholy Legion of DarkStar, the largest corp in the alliance, only to claim not to know we were in the same alliance. No worries m8, we only make up 70% of the alliance. *lol*

We apparently have two districts under attack by other alliance members due to misclicks. Waste of 160M. Too bad for them.

Um, what happens if noone from an attacking group shows up (i.e. total victory for defenders)? Is this a stealth way to reinforce allies (i.e. do the defenders get to keep any of the attacking clones?)

Sponk
May 16 2013, 10:02:15 AM
They lose 150 clones, we get 25 clones, they get refunded 25 clones, and we get refunded 150 clones.

Blah blah tapatalk

Lallante
May 31 2013, 03:28:52 AM
So I hear the 5 biggest entities have pc completely wrapped up. True?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Sponk
May 31 2013, 04:03:13 AM
Nah, we get a couple attacks per day, but I suspect most of the dust-holding alliances have dialed down their attacks to recoup the billions they spent taking them in the first place. My corp has about fifteen districts, so that 1.2 billion outlay takes almost 2 weeks to recoup, not counting losses.

Last time I checked, the major dust-holders were:

* CRONOS 83
* ROFL 54
* EON 29
* ORION 15
* everyone else 64

from 245 available districts, but that has probably changed in the last week.